1. #13781
    Quote Originally Posted by Obelisk Kai View Post
    The game already has high elves. Blood elves are high elves. They are actually the most popular race in the game and so a huge number of people have been having fun. Anyone who wants to play a high elf and isn't and is not having fun is inflicting that choice upon themselves. What you are complaining about is the faction those elves are on rather than their absence. Anyone who wants to 'have fun' can move to the horde.
    Blood Elves are Blood Elves. They lost the right to be called High Elves when they rejected this name, sided with monsters, hypocrites and degenerates (aka the Horde) and generally displayed an utter lack of values, principles and a general bare level of morality.

    The remaining High Elves, baring minor exceptions which are pushed as some massive proof of division in their ranks -which they aren't, especially the cases of nameless BE NPC with blue eyes which are just mistakes- lean toward the Alliance, reject the evolution of the current Qual'thalas society and have proven to always be able to field as much troop as the BE when they were deployed alongside them.

    If you want High Elves, you either play human, NE or VE and RP as HE. Using the BE model is not RPing a HE. It's disregarding the lore.

  2. #13782
    Quote Originally Posted by Manariel View Post
    Blood Elves are Blood Elves. They lost the right to be called High Elves when they rejected this name, sided with monsters, hypocrites and degenerates (aka the Horde) and generally displayed an utter lack of values, principles and a general bare level of morality.

    The remaining High Elves, baring minor exceptions which are pushed as some massive proof of division in their ranks -which they aren't, especially the cases of nameless BE NPC with blue eyes which are just mistakes- lean toward the Alliance, reject the evolution of the current Qual'thalas society and have proven to always be able to field as much troop as the BE when they were deployed alongside them.

    If you want High Elves, you either play human, NE or VE and RP as HE. Using the BE model is not RPing a HE. It's disregarding the lore.
    It's like having 1 albino exemplar of the species in a million and demand that this rare phenotype is the rule, and the majority is an outlier.
    Totally moronic.

    High Elves are a minority which will go extinct. No matter how hard they cling to their "true" name, they are irrelevant. And thus should not be in the game as PCs.

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    Quote Originally Posted by PalliesThrowStuff View Post
    While I believe that inclusion of Shaman is novel, and to my personal taste, it would be pretty sweet. I do disagree.

    I'm not against high elves as an AR inherently, but I do believe that they should be included as visual customization options for Void Elves, with the Void Shift racial optionally having a distinct visual that makes it look naturey or arcaney instead. Maybe some of those blue tats we see High Elves rocking in the strategy games.

    Classes: Would insist on Druid, there's a lot of reference to druidic magic in High Elf lore, being 'rangers' not just 'hunters' kind of leans towards the nature magic realm, and while Shamans might fulfill that aspect, I'd say that Druid is the go to. Druids do some Arcane damage via Balance spec, and many of those powers are sun-themed, like pretty much everything in Blood Elf/High Elf culture. This demonstrates a needed dichotomy against the Night Elves' more Moony theme, and would really tie the Druid class together neatly, IMO.

    Cat form as the same Lynx seen in High Elf/Blood Elf homeland which conveniently already have elf ears. Flight Form can be a more expectable golden/white bird, or I'd rather see a Dragonhawk form. Bear form's harder to be original, but Darkhounds never did get explained other than that they are magical beasts that appeared around the same time as the Scourge, alongside Demons, and for some reason or another the Blue Dragonflight used a whole ass bunch of them in WotLK content as 'Magehunters'. Following that theme, they might also be the default tame for High Elf Hunters, give them a cute name that fits like "Spell Hound" or "Mana Tracker", and make a similar mesh to the Darkhounds' that fits onto a bear skeleton like the ZTrollBearDino.
    The blue eyes option should be there for Blood Elves, namely the arcanists.
    Void Elves have been drastically altered by the Void and should not look like High Elves anymore. And if they assimilate other Thallasian Elves, no matter where these come from, they also change to the Void pattern. Just like Lightforged Draenei have their specifics which differentiate them from normal Draenei.

    Enough with more Elves, anyway. Give Stormwind Humans a Half-Elf customization option if anything, and be done with that. Half-Elves have more future potential in the Alliance.
    Last edited by scubi666stacy; 2019-12-05 at 12:13 PM.

  3. #13783
    Legendary! Obelisk Kai's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Manariel View Post
    Blood Elves are Blood Elves. They lost the right to be called High Elves when they rejected this name, sided with monsters, hypocrites and degenerates (aka the Horde) and generally displayed an utter lack of values, principles and a general bare level of morality.

    The remaining High Elves, baring minor exceptions which are pushed as some massive proof of division in their ranks -which they aren't, especially the cases of nameless BE NPC with blue eyes which are just mistakes- lean toward the Alliance, reject the evolution of the current Qual'thalas society and have proven to always be able to field as much troop as the BE when they were deployed alongside them.

    If you want High Elves, you either play human, NE or VE and RP as HE. Using the BE model is not RPing a HE. It's disregarding the lore.
    On holiday in london using phone while waiting for train so my replies will not be of the usual standard but the entire premise of your response is wrong. Blood Elves being the high elves of this franchise has been confirmed on multiple occasions across the past 20 odd years. You say blood elves are not high elves. Chris Metzen and Ion hazzikostas, who work on and create the game, disagree. Therefore you are wrong.

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    Quote Originally Posted by delus View Post
    So the color blue is a different theme huh?
    If it's a by-product of the void transformation that is their actual theme then yes.

  4. #13784
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    Quote Originally Posted by Obelisk Kai View Post
    On holiday in london using phone while waiting for train so my replies will not be of the usual standard but the entire premise of your response is wrong. Blood Elves being the high elves of this franchise has been confirmed on multiple occasions across the past 20 odd years. You say blood elves are not high elves. Chris Metzen and Ion hazzikostas, who work on and create the game, disagree. Therefore you are wrong.
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    Blood elves themselves say they're no longer high elves. Therefore you are wrong.
    "If you want to play alongside High and Void elves, the Alliance is waiting for you"

  5. #13785
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    Quote Originally Posted by elbleuet View Post
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    Blood elves themselves say they're no longer high elves. Therefore you are wrong.
    Which blood elf or blood elves said that so we can better understand the context of the comment?

  6. #13786
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    Quote Originally Posted by Obelisk Kai View Post
    Which blood elf or blood elves said that so we can better understand the context of the comment?
    If you want context to matter you should stop conflating the race with the group itself that refer to themselves as High Elves as this request from the very beginning has always been about getting that specific group to become playable, not simply the race itself.

    Yet you purposefully conflate this with the focus of the race itself, even Ion did this, as a lazy way to dismiss the request because “we already have the race playable” when the “context” has never been about the focus on the race rather than the specific group on the Alliance.

  7. #13787
    Quote Originally Posted by Obelisk Kai View Post
    If it's a by-product of the void transformation that is their actual theme then yes.
    And what if they find a safer way that barely changes them at all?

  8. #13788
    I am Murloc! Maljinwo's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by delus View Post
    And what if they find a safer way that barely changes them at all?
    Those are Shadow Priests
    This world don't give us nothing. It be our lot to suffer... and our duty to fight back.

  9. #13789
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    Then you'd have to ask why blizzard created a process that turned them blue in the first place and the answer is that the skin tone shift was an easy way of differentiating them from Blood/High elves. The skin tone shift is a deliberate choice.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Pennem View Post
    If you want context to matter you should stop conflating the race with the group itself that refer to themselves as High Elves as this request from the very beginning has always been about getting that specific group to become playable, not simply the race itself.

    Yet you purposefully conflate this with the focus of the race itself, even Ion did this, as a lazy way to dismiss the request because “we already have the race playable” when the “context” has never been about the focus on the race rather than the specific group on the Alliance.
    So as I said, it's not about the race but the faction they are on. That a tiny political faction of this race is aligned to the alliance is irrelevant, the race is playable.

  10. #13790
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    Quote Originally Posted by Obelisk Kai View Post
    Then you'd have to ask why blizzard created a process that turned them blue in the first place and the answer is that the skin tone shift was an easy way of differentiating them from Blood/High elves. The skin tone shift is a deliberate choice.
    It wouldn't be the first time that Blizzard implements a lazy solution stat that they then later improve upon in an entirely better way and still leave that lazy solution in.

    Ex: Void Storage before collections tab for mounts/pets/tmog/toys.

    More recent example would be the increased customizations we're seeing coming with Shadowlands itself. Makes the concept of Allied Races themselves redundant, especially Void Elves who are a simple re-skin of Blood Elves (no model change in any way like Nightborne/Vulpera/Zandalari), Mag'har, LF Draenei, HM Tauren.

    Just because Blizzard utilizes one method at first doesn't mean they're beholden to it for the entirety of their game's life.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Obelisk Kai View Post
    So as I said, it's not about the race but the faction they are on. That a tiny political faction of this race is aligned to the alliance is irrelevant, the race is playable.
    It's funny that in the same snippet you say "it's not about the race" you still end it with focusing on the race. Proving my point.

  11. #13791
    Quote Originally Posted by Obelisk Kai View Post
    Then you'd have to ask why blizzard created a process that turned them blue in the first place and the answer is that the skin tone shift was an easy way of differentiating them from Blood/High elves. The skin tone shift is a deliberate choice.

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    So as I said, it's not about the race but the faction they are on. That a tiny political faction of this race is aligned to the alliance is irrelevant, the race is playable.
    What I ask is why they would even bother if they are just going to use the same model.

  12. #13792
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    Quote Originally Posted by delus View Post
    What I ask is why they would even bother if they are just going to use the same model.
    They could've went with a design like this



    And that would've been so much better.

  13. #13793
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    Quote Originally Posted by Obelisk Kai View Post
    Which blood elf or blood elves said that so we can better understand the context of the comment?
    I preface by saying that we are on the same side of the argument and I agree with you that the blood elves are technically WoW's playable high elves and fulfil that role perfectly adequately. On top of this, I think it's also worth remarking that, at this point, Silvermoon has participated actively in the Horde for such a length of time as to match or even surpass their active membership in the Alliance of Lordaeron which really only consisted of their (reluctant) involvement in the Second War. So, I believe that people saying that the "high elves" are a core Alliance race are wrong. Many high elves were prominent and important figures within the Alliance as individuals, but Quel'Thalas as a whole was never particularly fond of the organisation and saw it as more of a burden than a boon.

    Having said all that, I believe the blood elf heritage armour quest line reveals the blood elven leadership's thinking on their racial status:

    Quote Originally Posted by Lady Liadrin
    Remember the Sunwell. We ride into battle with those words for a reason. We lost so much that day... I lost so much that day. Shine the lantern on the southern side of the island, where the Dead Scar meets the sea. There you will see how the fall of the Sunwell began. And with it, the last act of the High Elves.
    The phoenix, with its cycles of death and rebirth, is an animal with profound cultural significance to the Sin'dorei and I think Liadrin's words here reveal that the blood elves see the high elves - who they were - as dead. A people who they were but no longer are. When their old world was unmade by Arthas' monstrous attack the Quel'Thalas of the Quel'dorei was burned to cinders, but from the ashes, like a phoenix a new people arose - the Sin'dorei.

    I think another reflection of this detachment from their high elven past is Lor'themar's continued resistance to the notion of founding a new royal dynasty and making himself the new king of Quel'Thalas. Kael'thas declared that his father was the last king of the high elves and the regent lord shows no signs of going against the prince's wishes on this and, as far as we know, most of the blood elven populace seems satisfied with this arrangement.

    I think the blood elves see themselves as a new people and when they see their Quel'dorei kin clinging on to their old identity, I think they probably pity them. At least partially (when they're not murderously purging them from Dalaran).

  14. #13794
    Quote Originally Posted by Pennem View Post
    They could've went with a design like this



    And that would've been so much better.
    I'm still hoping they will add wretched or felblood skins for Belves.

  15. #13795
    Quote Originally Posted by Pennem View Post
    Well you said it yourself here


    And we see that Blizzard caters a lot to the races that are popular. So I'd say Void Elf fans get to ask for it since they are the most popular AR Also the suggestions given by Luck4 and Resident Rump are often seen among the Void Elf players of what more customization they'd like to see for Void Elves. Even that one Void Elf fanatic poster in this thread would like appearance options on Void Elves to look more like Alleria.

    I don't think that Blizzard can avoid giving more high elf-like options to Void Elves when they keep touting how increased customizations are based off of what's been asked forever and so that you can look how you want to feel. Since a lot of Void Elf players also happen to RP themselves as High Elves or High Elves who became Void Elves.

    This is really the elephant in the room, and as there are Blood Elf players going on about how they have every right to ask for whatever customizations they want for the race they play, there's no difference there from Void Elf players who want whatever customizations they want for the race they play.

    Anyways, I have a little theory with Night Elf with customization that may or may not confirm what happens for customization when it comes to Void Elves, but I'll have to wait and see how they handle the Night Elves first.
    Doesn't work like that bud, just because an AR is popular does not mean that any additional customizations they receive will come at the expense of detracting from the uniqueness of their parent race. I would be willing to bet that any additional customizations ARs get in the future will be in alignment with that ARs aesthetic and thematic, not with their parents race aesthetic and thematic.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Ielenia View Post
    Well, "from memory" isn't exactly a strong argument when said "from memory" is a crucial part of it. For all we know, the bear could be attacking the locals. Or got infected with something and needs to be put down.
    https://wowwiki.fandom.com/wiki/Quest:Vyrin%27s_Revenge

    They tried hunting the bear years ago but to no success. They then recently tried to hunt the bear again. to which the high elf's friend apparently gets injured. As an act of revenge for the injury (which is funny given they're trying to hunt the bear) the high elf asks you to kill the bear and bring it's head back. "From memory" served me well in this case it seems (though I admit not always). I don't remember any more context around the quest, other than you're asked to kill a bear who attacked someone, even though said someone was trying to kill the bear in the first place. "Morally grey" comes to mind in this example.


    Quote Originally Posted by Ielenia View Post
    You don't think them turning a glowing purple for twelve seconds every minute would be sufficient differentiation?

    No it would not be sufficient, hence why Blizzard went with a permanent purple option in stead of "twelve seconds every minute".

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    Quote Originally Posted by Resident Rump View Post
    They will soon get Lilian Voss who looks exactly like them, especially since the talk of Calia and Derek definitely not joining the Horde. All the more reason to add the options to Void Elves if even Forsaken get to look like their leader in the future.
    Sylvanas was the undead leader for 15 years or so. Why should void elves have to wait any less? And even still, it'd be no different to the problem we have now... making them look like Alleria would only be making them look like blood elves (which you know, is the whole blurring of lines we're trying to avoid here)

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    Quote Originally Posted by delus View Post
    So the color blue is a different theme huh?
    The void is a different theme.
    Blood elves are our high elves - Chris Metzen

  16. #13796
    Quote Originally Posted by Pennem View Post
    They could've went with a design like this



    And that would've been so much better.
    They could have made blood elves more demonic. They could have made them permanently changed by the fel. Alas, they didn't.

  17. #13797
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    Quote Originally Posted by Strippling View Post
    Doesn't work like that bud, just because an AR is popular does not mean that any additional customizations they receive will come at the expense of detracting from the uniqueness of their parent race. I would be willing to bet that any additional customizations ARs get in the future will be in alignment with that ARs aesthetic and thematic, not with their parents race aesthetic and thematic.
    Actually yeah it does. What this tells me here is you don't understand why increased customizations are coming in the first place.

  18. #13798
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    Quote Originally Posted by Strippling View Post
    https://wowwiki.fandom.com/wiki/Quest:Vyrin%27s_Revenge

    They tried hunting the bear years ago but to no success. They then recently tried to hunt the bear again. to which the high elf's friend apparently gets injured. As an act of revenge for the injury (which is funny given they're trying to hunt the bear) the high elf asks you to kill the bear and bring it's head back. "From memory" served me well in this case it seems (though I admit not always). I don't remember any more context around the quest, other than you're asked to kill a bear who attacked someone, even though said someone was trying to kill the bear in the first place. "Morally grey" comes to mind in this example.
    You were right. I'm not going to say anything else regarding this subject, though, as it's not an argument chain I've been following.

    No it would not be sufficient, hence why Blizzard went with a permanent purple option in stead of "twelve seconds every minute".
    "Because Blizzard didn't do it" is not a valid answer, because you're making a claim that cannot be verified. It's not valid because we have no idea what went throughout the designers' meeting that created the void elf concept, what other ideas were given and the reason they were rejected. For all we know, void elves with "fair skin but turn purple for twelve seconds once per minute" was acceptable, but the designers decided void elves being purple all the time was "prettier".
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  19. #13799
    Legendary! Obelisk Kai's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Pennem View Post
    It wouldn't be the first time that Blizzard implements a lazy solution stat that they then later improve upon in an entirely better way and still leave that lazy solution in.

    Ex: Void Storage before collections tab for mounts/pets/tmog/toys.

    More recent example would be the increased customizations we're seeing coming with Shadowlands itself. Makes the concept of Allied Races themselves redundant, especially Void Elves who are a simple re-skin of Blood Elves (no model change in any way like Nightborne/Vulpera/Zandalari), Mag'har, LF Draenei, HM Tauren.

    Just because Blizzard utilizes one method at first doesn't mean they're beholden to it for the entirety of their game's life.

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    It's funny that in the same snippet you say "it's not about the race" you still end it with focusing on the race. Proving my point.
    Your response was revealing. You define Void Elves as a lazy solution that can be 'improved' with time and development. The flaw here is that you assume Void Elves are terrible is a fact, and that that is something Blizzard must fix. And by 'fix' or 'improve' you clearly once again mean the introduction of high elf skin tones because that is what everyone understands pro high elfers mean about fixing Void Elves.

    Leaving aside the fact that such a result is still going to be a Void Elf and not a traditional high elf (that is a blood elf), changing the void elf skin tone was consistent with several other allied races who were introduced. Their skin tones are reflective of the void theme and aesthetic Void elves were granted to distinguish them from blood/high elves and thus a natural part of the package, unless you wish to argue they chose the skin tone first and the then settled on the void theme to explain it. The skin tones void elves have were a deliberate choice to distinguish then. Giving void elves high elf like skins would be counterintuitive in that it would undermine the rationale for giving them those skins in the first place and pointless as the result will still be a shadow twisted void elf. This is the conclusion I believe they will reach should they ever consider additional customizations for Void Elves.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Pennem View Post
    They could've went with a design like this



    And that would've been so much better.
    This is the kind of additional customizations that would suit void elves, allowing them to develop as their own thing rather than trying to turn them into ersatz high elves.

  20. #13800
    Quote Originally Posted by Obelisk Kai View Post
    This is the kind of additional customizations that would suit void elves, allowing them to develop as their own thing rather than trying to turn them into ersatz high elves.
    Yes, of course. That way, we'll remain with the exact same faces/hairs/skintones than we have today. I get it, BE fans are so focused on the outward appearance of their faciton of thalassian Elves that they can't stand the idea of any other race looking like their own, even when it makes sense.

    But sure. Add monstrous appearances to the Void Elves that nobody will use because they are uttelry ugly and just break the whole Alliance aesthetic more than anything else. Meanwhile, I guess the Horde will get a dozen or so new different skins for his Mag'hars ?

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