1. #13821
    Mechagnome Thalassian Bob's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Obelisk Kai View Post
    It is not head canon. It is as legitimate an interpretation of your character's origins as someone roleplaying a Human refugee from Lordaeron.

    <snip>

    Those militantly opposed to the idea that Void Elves are the replacement for the high elves on the Alliance dispute this only realistic interpretation of the in game and out of game evidence on the basis it's not conclusive despite the only way Moorgard's answer makes sense is that void elves can expand their ranks . On the other hand, these same people leapt at the presence of a handful of ballistas during the battle of the gates of orgrimmar as proof that the high elves were still an important, contributing member of the Alliance even though there were zero high elves on the battlefield and the reason the ballistas was used was likely because they were an appropriately sized alliance siege weapon plucked from the asset library for their location on the battlefield.
    I was using "headcanon" as more of a "this is my backstory musings I have about this character on a non-RP server" rather than "here's my outlandish notion that my goblin is actually Korialstrasz reincarnated" descriptive. But, yeah, I think if people work within the realms of credibility with character origins, people can make up all sorts of backgrounds for their characters; Alterac/Lordaeron survivor, Mok'nathal, Wildhammer etc. And some of these are going to be made all the easier with expanded character customisation which I am very excited about! (Wanted Wildhammer woad for years!)

    And, yeah, people's refusal to come to the logical conclusion on stuff like void elf population numbers etc is very "god of the gaps" thinking.

  2. #13822
    Legendary! Obelisk Kai's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Thalassian Bob View Post
    I was using "headcanon" as more of a "this is my backstory musings I have about this character on a non-RP server" rather than "here's my outlandish notion that my goblin is actually Korialstrasz reincarnated" descriptive. But, yeah, I think if people work within the realms of credibility with character origins, people can make up all sorts of backgrounds for their characters; Alterac/Lordaeron survivor, Mok'nathal, Wildhammer etc. And some of these are going to be made all the easier with expanded character customisation which I am very excited about! (Wanted Wildhammer woad for years!)

    And, yeah, people's refusal to come to the logical conclusion on stuff like void elf population numbers etc is very "god of the gaps" thinking.
    The trick with making an origin story work is that it is consistent with the game as it actually is and is not contradicted by anything else.

    A Void Elf who used to be a High Elf of the Silver Covenant is possible because not only is it not contradicted in game, but because a lot of evidence supports the obvious conclusion that Void Elves can expand their ranks. There are many plausible plots for a high elf to decide to become a Void Elf. Off the top of my head, I could say that a SC High Elf, chafing under neutrality, who has seen the organization diminish through multiple campaigns and irreplaceable losses, decides to join this new pro Alliance force of thalassian elves that actually seem to be doing something. Or the high elf could be genuinely void curious and who wishes to explore previously forbidden magics. Or they wish to use the void energies to be a more effective tool of vengeance against the Blood Elves and the Horde. Or they could even have been among the initial group transformed, who were overwhelmingly blood elven but maybe they had a high elf or two along for the experiment? Multiple paths that segue with the existing game.

    A Human player who roleplays their character as a survivor of Lordaeron or Alterac or Stromgarde is also supported in game and, importantly, not contradicted.

    Expanded customization options for the existing races is also consistent with the game. If you want to roleplay a Wildhammer Dwarf or a Desert Troll, despite the character canonically beginning as a Bronzebeard Dwarf or a Jungle Troll, you merely have to write yourself a plausible origin. The easiest one is that one of your parents was a Wildhammer Dwarf or a Desert Troll, and your Dwarf or Troll takes after that parent. Or you could imagine yourself as a Desert Troll who has rejected the futility of waging an unwinnable war against the entire world and who has been adopted into the Darkspear clan as a member of the Horde. Or your Wildhammer Dwarf might want to learn the ways of the Bronzebeards and has journeyed to Dun Morogh to begin their education. All plausible stories the game does not contradict.

    However, this only works if your proposed origin is consistent with the game as is. Roleplaying your Void Elf as a former High Elf who has now embraced the void is consistent with the game world.

    Roleplaying your void elf as if he is an unaltered high elf who was never touched by the void is not consistent. That is trying to impose an inconsistent headcanon on the world as it has been created. Of course, if anyone attempts to roleplay in such a way they cannot be stopped, but they are roleplaying a lie. Thankfully, the game itself provides the narrative to ensure this roleplay is 'consistent'. Void Elves go mad due to the whispers. Any Void Elf player who attempts to argue they aren't a Void Elf can be treated by other roleplayers as having gone mad. Any roleplayer who goes along with the void elf player's delusion can be understood to be 'humouring' the delusion.
    Last edited by Obelisk Kai; 2019-12-07 at 11:36 AM.

  3. #13823
    I am Murloc! FlubberPuddy's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Obelisk Kai View Post
    The trick with making an origin story work is that it is consistent with the game as it actually is and is not contradicted by anything else.
    It would be contradicted then by the game itself. Unless you choose to ignore it.

    This is said by Magister Umbric when you speak to him as a Void Elf player on the Boralus ship.

    VE Player:How fare you, Magister Umbric?

    "I struggle to fetter the whispers, same as you. Thankfully, Alleria Windrunner continues to offer us her guidance. Without her intervention... well, I fear we would have all been lost. And though I was reluctant to treat with him at first, I have learned much from the Locus-Walker. Just bear in mind that anything he offers is bound to serve his own goals in some way."

    VE Player:Do you believe we have earned the trust of the Alliance?

    "So long as Silvermoon stands with the Horde, there will always be those who mistrust us. But the Alliance is where our people belong. I am more certain of that now than ever before. Stay the course, $n. Show our comrades in the Alliance that we fight for the same cause. One day the Horde's grip on our land will be broken, and the children of Quel'Thalas will stand united once more. I know it."

    https://www.wowhead.com/news=284450/...magic-spoilers

    The rest of the dialogue he states before the two presented above can be accessed by any other race, but these two here are specific to void elf players.

    The bolded part and the portion about earning the Alliance's trust and mentioning doubt because Silvermoon stands with the Horde solidifies that you are a Blood Elf Void Elf that's been part of Magister Umbric's group.

    You may certainly roleplay your Void Elf however you wish, but this in-game dialogue every Void Elf player has access to canonizes them as previously being Blood Elves with Umbric, not any other kind of high elf origin and certainly not a "I was always in the Alliance before as a (SC) High Elf and chose to delve into Void powers."

    Regardless of out of game comments by devs or that we see a lot more Void Elves, that text there canonizes that you were a Blood Elf with Umbric moments before your transformation and thus why the Alliance is wary of you (because they're not wary of High Elves in general) and why you must work towards proving loyalty to the Alliance (because High Elves in the Alliance have already proven themselves).

    - - - Updated - - -

    But bottom line is a person can RP their character however they want, for whichever reasons they want. Anyone telling them "you can't RP this way" is just straight up being a bonafide dick/asshole.

    Especially when the developers themselves encourage RPing your character's story.

  4. #13824
    Quote Originally Posted by Obelisk Kai View Post
    https://www.polygon.com/2019/1/21/18...user-interview

    Interviewer: There’s just one question: If they come from a small group of Silvermoon Exiles, how are they an Allied Race? Where do the numbers come from?

    Originally Posted by Blizzard Entertainment
    They start out as a small group,” Danuser continues. “But it’s natural as other elves have found out about them — elves who are interested in new sources of magic, power, or opportunities — would see if they could undergo a similar process. They’re not ... recruiting, necessarily, but they’re open to those who show a similar interest.

    Those militantly opposed to the idea that Void Elves are the replacement for the high elves on the Alliance dispute this only realistic interpretation of the in game and out of game evidence on the basis it's not conclusive despite the only way Moorgard's answer makes sense is that void elves can expand their ranks . On the other hand, these same people leapt at the presence of a handful of ballistas during the battle of the gates of orgrimmar as proof that the high elves were still an important, contributing member of the Alliance even though there were zero high elves on the battlefield and the reason the ballistas was used was likely because they were an appropriately sized alliance siege weapon plucked from the asset library for their location on the battlefield.
    Still using that non-answers as proof? It's still only Blood Elves that became Void Elves. The whole story ingame is about Blood Elves becoming Void Elves, not sure why you ignore it. He gave that answer because they don't have plans of changing that or they don't know. As far as presented, Blood Elves will be the ones that expand the ranks of Void Elves.

    You have tried to use this argument for so long, as long it's no proof of Alliance High Elves going Void Elves that argument is a non-argument. It's a headcanon until this is actually proven by either ingame, novels or when a dev actually say "Yes, Alliance High Elves turns into Void Elves". When they do, I'll quote you and write that I agree.

  5. #13825
    Legendary! Obelisk Kai's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Doffen View Post
    Still using that non-answers as proof? It's still only Blood Elves that became Void Elves. The whole story ingame is about Blood Elves becoming Void Elves, not sure why you ignore it. He gave that answer because they don't have plans of changing that or they don't know. As far as presented, Blood Elves will be the ones that expand the ranks of Void Elves.

    You have tried to use this argument for so long, as long it's no proof of Alliance High Elves going Void Elves that argument is a non-argument. It's a headcanon until this is actually proven by either ingame, novels or when a dev actually say "Yes, Alliance High Elves turns into Void Elves". When they do, I'll quote you and write that I agree.
    Did he specify blood or high elves in the response? No, he said elves alone and while that in theory could include Night Elves and Nightborne, only High Elves and Blood Elves are present in telogrus. Blood Elves of course, ARE High Elves so regardless of whether alliance aligned high elves are becoming void elves, all void elves used to be traditional high elves.

    So what exactly do you imagine happens? That the void curious high elves check themselves at the last moment and go 'sorry, despite all my efforts and training I just realised I never became a Blood Elf and so I can't become a Void Elf, so I'll check myself out, thanks for your time?'. That is simply nonsensical.

    Blood Elves and alliance aligned High Elves are biologically identical. The process that transformed Umbric and his followers into void elves would, if replicated on an alliance aligned high elf, produce the exact same result, a void elf. Blizzard placed high elf and blood elf trainees inside telogrus for a reason, to allow roleplayers to fashion any origin they wished for their void elf. And Moorgard's actually very specific answer to a very specific question is the opposite of a non answer in that it answered the question put to him. 'Where are Void Elf numbers coming from?'...'Void Elves are turning those who seek them out into Void Elves'

    Let us be frank, shall we. The reason void elf reproduction is so hotly contested by the pro High Elf community is that you wish to foreclose the possibility that high elf exiles can be void elves. If you foreclose that possibility, the argument that 'the alliance loyal elves we have waited to play for so long still aren't playable' can be sustained. If Void Elves can recruit high elves, and there is no reason they shouldn't given the available evidence, then that argument is blown out of the water and anyone who says they want to play 'an SC elf' can be directed towards the Void Elves. And once that happens, usually the distaste with Void Elves because they are blue (the real reason this argument continues) becomes apparent.

    It's simply one part of the effort to resist the truth that Void Elves are what you got and what you will have to make do with. A wiser course of action would be to accept the logic of the evidence and the commentary on Moorgard and to play your Void Elf as a converted Silver Covenant High Elf if that is what you desire.

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by Pennem View Post
    It would be contradicted then by the game itself. Unless you choose to ignore it.

    This is said by Magister Umbric when you speak to him as a Void Elf player on the Boralus ship.

    VE Player:How fare you, Magister Umbric?

    "I struggle to fetter the whispers, same as you. Thankfully, Alleria Windrunner continues to offer us her guidance. Without her intervention... well, I fear we would have all been lost. And though I was reluctant to treat with him at first, I have learned much from the Locus-Walker. Just bear in mind that anything he offers is bound to serve his own goals in some way."

    VE Player:Do you believe we have earned the trust of the Alliance?

    "So long as Silvermoon stands with the Horde, there will always be those who mistrust us. But the Alliance is where our people belong. I am more certain of that now than ever before. Stay the course, $n. Show our comrades in the Alliance that we fight for the same cause. One day the Horde's grip on our land will be broken, and the children of Quel'Thalas will stand united once more. I know it."

    https://www.wowhead.com/news=284450/...magic-spoilers

    The rest of the dialogue he states before the two presented above can be accessed by any other race, but these two here are specific to void elf players.

    The bolded part and the portion about earning the Alliance's trust and mentioning doubt because Silvermoon stands with the Horde solidifies that you are a Blood Elf Void Elf that's been part of Magister Umbric's group.

    You may certainly roleplay your Void Elf however you wish, but this in-game dialogue every Void Elf player has access to canonizes them as previously being Blood Elves with Umbric, not any other kind of high elf origin and certainly not a "I was always in the Alliance before as a (SC) High Elf and chose to delve into Void powers."

    Regardless of out of game comments by devs or that we see a lot more Void Elves, that text there canonizes that you were a Blood Elf with Umbric moments before your transformation and thus why the Alliance is wary of you (because they're not wary of High Elves in general) and why you must work towards proving loyalty to the Alliance (because High Elves in the Alliance have already proven themselves).


    Nothing in Umbric's dialogue can be read as binding the player to an exclusively Horde origin.

    A transformed high elven exile would struggle with the whispers, same as Umbric.

    A transformed high elven exile would rely on Alleria's guidance, same as Umbric.

    When Umbric says that without her intervention 'we would have been lost', that 'we' can be interpreted as either exclusive or inclusive depending on the player. A player who wishes to roleplay as a high elven exile or a blood elf who signed up later would treat it as an exclusive we, and that Umbric was referring to Alleria's intervention with the initial group. A player who roleplays as a blood elf who was there at the initial transformation would treat it as an inclusive we, Umbric referencing an event he shared with the player.

    The player asking 'do you believe we have earned the trust of the Alliance' does not mean they were once Horde. High Elven exiles were mistrusted by the Alliance somewhat as the vast majority of their race had become Blood Elves, apparently betrayed the Alliance and then defected to the Horde. Not to mention the Night Elves revealed how their ancestors nearly destroyed the world with their reckless use of magic. This is recorded in the Warcraft encyclopedia.

    Originally Posted by Blizzard Entertainment
    "A few high elves have chosen to join the Alliance in recent years, but the Alliance as a whole remains somewhat suspicious of high elves to this day. The high elves' secession from the Alliance during the Second War left bitter memories. Furthermore, the night elves, who became part of the Alliance during the Third War, saw it as their duty to warn their new allies against the high elves. The Highborne's part in bringing about the War of the Ancients figured heavily in the night elves' retelling of high elf history."
    So even if a High Elven exile had managed to grind back some trust with the Alliance forces he had fought beside, accepting the void would have sent him right back down in the estimation of the god-fearing populace. Even if then population at large were educated that some Void Elves had not been Blood Elves, I doubt it would make much practical difference. The High Elf exile who accepts the Void will be mistrusted and will be there, alongside Umbric, hoping to work it back whilst using forces nobody on their side is very comfortable with.

    So what you've posted here proves nothing about the origin of the player. It is all written in such a way that it is up to the player to decide on their origin. The only thing that is canon about their origin is, as per Anduin's letter, that the Void Elf player is joining the Alliance. As the Silver Covenant dwells in neutral Dalaran, this does not preclude that the high elf exile is one of those technically neutral but overtly alliance aligned elves who is now, by embracing the void, casting off the ambiguity.

    It all works.

    Quote Originally Posted by Pennem View Post
    But bottom line is a person can RP their character however they want, for whichever reasons they want. Anyone telling them "you can't RP this way" is just straight up being a bonafide dick/asshole.

    Especially when the developers themselves encourage RPing your character's story.
    Yeah, I get it, this is coded reference to your claim that customization options would allow a Void Elf to pretend to be a High Elf who isn't a void elf.

    It doesn't work like that. A roleplayer has to come up with a story that matches the character they are creating. You can't roleplay as a ten foot tall gnome simply because you want to, the game doesn't work like that. The possibilities of a roleplayer's story are bounded by their choice of race when they create a character. And anyone who selects a Void Elf is playing a thalassian elf who has undergone the transformation into a Void Elf. They are free to explore any aspect of that situation they wish, but they cannot deny their origin.

  6. #13826
    Quote Originally Posted by Obelisk Kai View Post
    Did he specify blood or high elves in the response? No, he said elves alone and while that in theory could include Night Elves and Nightborne, only High Elves and Blood Elves are present in telogrus. Blood Elves of course, ARE High Elves so regardless of whether alliance aligned high elves are becoming void elves, all void elves used to be traditional high elves.

    So what exactly do you imagine happens? That the void curious high elves check themselves at the last moment and go 'sorry, despite all my efforts and training I just realised I never became a Blood Elf and so I can't become a Void Elf, so I'll check myself out, thanks for your time?'. That is simply nonsensical.

    Blood Elves and alliance aligned High Elves are biologically identical. The process that transformed Umbric and his followers into void elves would, if replicated on an alliance aligned high elf, produce the exact same result, a void elf. Blizzard placed high elf and blood elf trainees inside telogrus for a reason, to allow roleplayers to fashion any origin they wished for their void elf. And Moorgard's actually very specific answer to a very specific question is the opposite of a non answer in that it answered the question put to him. 'Where are Void Elf numbers coming from?'...'Void Elves are turning those who seek them out into Void Elves'

    Let us be frank, shall we. The reason void elf reproduction is so hotly contested by the pro High Elf community is that you wish to foreclose the possibility that high elf exiles can be void elves. If you foreclose that possibility, the argument that 'the alliance loyal elves we have waited to play for so long still aren't playable' can be sustained. If Void Elves can recruit high elves, and there is no reason they shouldn't given the available evidence, then that argument is blown out of the water and anyone who says they want to play 'an SC elf' can be directed towards the Void Elves. And once that happens, usually the distaste with Void Elves because they are blue (the real reason this argument continues) becomes apparent.

    It's simply one part of the effort to resist the truth that Void Elves are what you got and what you will have to make do with. A wiser course of action would be to accept the logic of the evidence and the commentary on Moorgard and to play your Void Elf as a converted Silver Covenant High Elf if that is what you desire.
    People can RP as much as they want, it's not about that. Let's be frank for sure. You really want it as truth so people can stop hoping for playable Alliance "Pure" High Elves, so you interpret his statement as an absolute, when it didn't say anything against the in game reality where all Void Elves were previously Blood Elves. There are High Elf Wayfarer's there yes, but doesn't say those are Alliance aligned does it? It's a reason why they are named Wayfarer's too. It can be anyone. Doesn't mean they transform to Void Elves. That's the point, the Void Elves represented in game are saying they are Blood Elves. What people choose to think of their Void Elves is just RP, and that's it. If Blizzard wanted that, well good idea of them I guess. But that quote doesn't change the fact that our Void Elves were previously Blood Elves.

    And is it anything wrong with this being the case? Why are you so set to the idea that it must be some Alliance High Elves into the mix? Maybe you want to foreclose something? All Void Elves are factually Blood Elves, no RP, no vague quote change this. Until show other wise. Like I said before, I am not saying this isn't the case, but you can't argue that it is either. So using that against the High Elves fans on this forum is just being disingenuous.

    Nothing in Umbric's dialogue can be read as binding the player to an exclusively Horde origin.
    Everything he says there is binding the player to be an exclusively Horde origin. That's what Void Elves are. Blood Elves. If people want to RP, sure thing. But that wouldn't be correct in the "factual" World of Warcraft universe.
    Last edited by Doffen; 2019-12-07 at 03:17 PM.

  7. #13827
    Mechagnome Thalassian Bob's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Obelisk Kai View Post
    <snip>
    Yeah, a lot of people tend to put high elves, particularly the Silver Covenant, up on this pedestal of righteous arcane teetotalism. Supposing that every Thalassian who is still a high elf - those aligned with the Alliance especially - would never dream of practising any magic that could be seen as taboo. Yet, we've already seen that some Alliance-aligned high elves don't shy away from magics such as demonology as is the case with Silver Covenant member Summoner Nolric. It's not implausible that some high elf exiles, seeing the state of Azeroth during the events of Legion or Battle for Azeroth and considering their ever-dwindling numbers, decided that extreme circumstances required extreme measures and began investigating the Void on their own or heard the fate of Umbric's Ren'dorei and decided to join them.

    All this guff about high elves being horrified by the early practices of the blood elves and preferring exile to drinking the kool-aid comes from one author and a fan author to boot (her writing generally is fine but I don't like her direction on this issue). Maybe with a bit of Knaak, but the less said about him, the better. I've always thought that revulsion at the prospect of joining the Horde provides the high elves with much better and more sympathetic motivations. Some high elves apparently summon demons, others are pirates, some sell booze to Orgrimmar and others still murderously purge their brethren on the other side of the political divide from major cities. High elves are not squeaky clean and not afraid of getting their hands dirty - metaphorically or magically.


    Quote Originally Posted by Pennem View Post
    <snip>VE Player:Do you believe we have earned the trust of the Alliance?

    "So long as Silvermoon stands with the Horde, there will always be those who mistrust us. But the Alliance is where our people belong. I am more certain of that now than ever before. Stay the course, $n. Show our comrades in the Alliance that we fight for the same cause. One day the Horde's grip on our land will be broken, and the children of Quel'Thalas will stand united once more. I know it."
    <snip>
    While my first instinct about the bolded text is to believe that it probably refers to the blood elves who were accidentally turned void along with Umbric, as seen in the recruitment chain, there's nothing that makes it specific to that group and, as Kai points out, there's wiggle room for other interpretations.

    From Anduin's letter to the void elf player, it's clear that a lot of people in the Alliance opposed the recruitment of the void elves into the Alliance simply because they were "corrupted" by the void, let alone because they may have formally been blood elves. This makes perfect sense considering how important the Light is in so much of Alliance society. So, Umbric saying that the Ren'dorei must show the other races of the Alliance that they "fight for the same cause" could also be interpreted as the void elves needing to show that they still fight for Azeroth, the Alliance, and against the forces of evil. Just like the death knights are initially greeted with disdain by both factions, void elves, whether they had been blood elves or high elves before their transformation, would probably be viewed with deep suspicion for some time after their conversion.

  8. #13828
    Bloodsail Admiral Aldo Hawk's Avatar
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    Even if Void elves start being portrayed as capable of transforming others into them, including High elves, it would not change anything since the group that has been asked for would still exist.

    It's so straightforward yet so simple.

    In fact, I can't wait, just to see people complaining because 'BuT yOU ALreADy hAVe hiGH ELVes thrOUGh vOId eLVeS' and Blizzard realizing that not everyone is willing to buy and defend every crap they come up with.

    Void elves will never be a close up argument by virtue of it not being the very thing at discuss and all it's context.

    The sooner this is realized the sooner a lot of useless comments about Void elves will be saved from being used to derail the threads about High elves.

  9. #13829
    I am Murloc! FlubberPuddy's Avatar
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    @Thalassian Bob and @Obelisk Kai

    Look I don't wanna spend my holidays going in a cycle over this so I'll just say these few things:

    1) Warcraft Encyclopedia was written like back in vanilla or w/e -> before the Silver Covenant existed. There are parts of it that aren't canon anymore, such as the Alliance being wary of the High Elves in general, cuz we see them all around in the Alliance now post SC and on top of that I believe it says somewhere on Wowpedia that Tyrande even invited Vereesa to her and Malf's wedding thus indicating a thawing of relations between the two elf groups.

    2) Umbric would have no reason to bring up "As long as Silvermoon is within the Horde they may be wary of us" etc etc because High Elves as in the group that refers to themselves as High Elves/Silver Covenant are not a part of the Horde at all. Only Blood Elves.

    These are my reasons for why I said what I did in my earlier post, and shame on you @Obelisk Kai for using retconned portions of the Warcraft Encyclopedia as if it already wasn't retconned by the existence of the Silver Covenant and the growing number of High Elves seen in the Alliance since Vanilla WoW.

    But really, I don't care to keep going over and over this, it's frankly splitting hairs at this point (probably for a long while). I just got humongous good news in terms of my career and am going to spend the rest of 2019 enjoying the holidays.

    My personal want is still for a separate playable option of Alliance High Elves (not Void Elves), but if that can't happen then High Elf skins on VEs are a-ok by me!

    Have a happy holidays everyone!

  10. #13830
    Legendary! Obelisk Kai's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Doffen View Post
    People can RP as much as they want, it's not about that. Let's be frank for sure. You really want it as truth so people can stop hoping for playable Alliance "Pure" High Elves, so you interpret his statement as an absolute, when it didn't say anything against the in game reality where all Void Elves were previously Blood Elves. There are High Elf Wayfarer's there yes, but doesn't say those are Alliance aligned does it? It's a reason why they are named Wayfarer's too. It can be anyone. Doesn't mean they transform to Void Elves. That's the point, the Void Elves represented in game are saying they are Blood Elves. What people choose to think of their Void Elves is just RP, and that's it. If Blizzard wanted that, well good idea of them I guess. But that quote doesn't change the fact that our Void Elves were previously Blood Elves.
    People should stop hoping for 'pure' Alliance High Elves because they aren't going to get them. It's been fifteen years since the game launched, that's roughly a fifth of a human lifespan. If their non appearance by this point isn't enough of a sign, the creation of Void Elves as a clear substitute is a dead giveaway.

    As for your other objections, they count for nothing. The possibility of Void Elves converting high elves is a concession to roleplayers who wish to go down that path. That high elf wayfarer came from somewhere, and if your Void Elf began as a High Elf wayfarer it is up to the player to determine their origin. Although, given the extremely low population of the high elf exiles, it's really either Dalaran or Quel'Danil. As long as it is plausible for a Void Elf to have an origin as a High Elf exile, then that is a route which can be taken by the player.


    Quote Originally Posted by Doffen View Post
    And is it anything wrong with this being the case? Why are you so set to the idea that it must be some Alliance High Elves into the mix? Maybe you want to foreclose something? All Void Elves are factually Blood Elves, no RP, no vague quote change this. Until show other wise. Like I said before, I am not saying this isn't the case, but you can't argue that it is either. So using that against the High Elves fans on this forum is just being disingenuous.
    All Void Elves are not factually Blood Elves, because Alleria was never a Blood Elf and yet she is a Void Elf, in fact she is the Void Elf racial leader. Of course she came by her powers through a unique method, but she is still a Void Elf, she has defined herself as a Void Elf and is recognised as a Void Elf. The existence of even one Void Elf who was not a Blood Elf means your statement here is automatically wrong.

    You are also not approaching this topic from unbiased viewpoint. You want the Void Elves to be unable to reproduce so that they cannot convert High Elven exiles. If they cannot convert High Elven exiles, you can argue that the 'pure Alliance High Elves' can still be added to the game as a distinct grouping. In other words, you have motive in attempting to say the Void Elves cannot do this.

    Once again

    1.) Void Elf numbers in game do no match the initial batch of Void Elves. They have clearly expanded and had the numbers for a group to sacrifice themselves in the Nazmir suicide mission.
    2.) Void Elves have been observed converting other living beings into void based variants by bombarding them with void energies in a clear echo of their own transformation.
    3.) High Elven wayfarers and Silvermoon scholars are present in Telogrus and learning to wield the void.
    3a.) Related to the previous point, Moorgard (when asked where do Void Elf numbers come from) said that other elves have heard about them, are seeking them out, and are undergoing a similar process.

    It is not that there is no evidence to support the idea that high elven exiles can be turned into Void Elves, it is that you are desperate to deny the possibility because it is yet another obstacle on the path towards playable Alliance High Elves. To which I would say you shouldn't worry. That path is blocked, barred and barricaded. Void Elves being able to draw from the High Elven exiles is not so much an obstacle to your goal as the only remaining bypass. You see, I have to foreclose nothing. It was never my choice to begin with after all. But the moment Blizzard went out of their way to create Void Elves rather than grant you High Elven exiles is the moment the goal was foreclosed.


    Quote Originally Posted by Doffen View Post
    Everything he says there is binding the player to be an exclusively Horde origin. That's what Void Elves are. Blood Elves. If people want to RP, sure thing. But that wouldn't be correct in the "factual" World of Warcraft universe.
    No it doesn't and I went into considerable detail showing why it didn't. This two line response is meaningless, just you rejecting something that doesn't fit your personal agenda.

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by Thalassian Bob View Post
    All this guff about high elves being horrified by the early practices of the blood elves and preferring exile to drinking the kool-aid comes from one author and a fan author to boot (her writing generally is fine but I don't like her direction on this issue). Maybe with a bit of Knaak, but the less said about him, the better. I've always thought that revulsion at the prospect of joining the Horde provides the high elves with much better and more sympathetic motivations. Some high elves apparently summon demons, others are pirates, some sell booze to Orgrimmar and others still murderously purge their brethren on the other side of the political divide from major cities. High elves are not squeaky clean and not afraid of getting their hands dirty - metaphorically or magically.
    During the Second War's earliest stages, Alleria Windrunner was very vocal about the need to support the Human kingdoms against this new threat they had heard rumours of, this 'Horde'. She was ignored, as the rulers of Quel'thalas did not believe the Horde posed a threat to them directly and they had little interest in participating in human affairs. Only when Anduin Lothar invoked the blood oath the Elves had sworn due to Humanity's aid in the Troll Wars did Quel'thalas relent.

    They sent the smallest force they possible could, and at it's head they placed Alleria Windrunner. The High Elves only really committed to the war when the threat from the Horde became immediate. After the war was one, and chronicles is quite clear about this, the High Elves were the first to leave, retreating into their traditional isolationism.

    When you look at the very few High Elves remaining today, what do we see? We see the Silver Covenant, an organisation so dominated by hunters that they were admitted to the Hunter class hall in Legion alongside the Farstriders (an organisation they purposely ape). And we see Mages almost overwhelmingly associated with the Kirin Tor of Dalaran.

    My personal theory is that those who didn't become Blood Elves are those who spent the most time with the Humans, Dwarves and Gnomes. The Farstriders who fought beside them during the Second War and the Mages of Dalaran who loved the city of magic so much that they stayed to rebuild it rather than going home to Quel'thalas alongside their Prince and the majority of the elven mages inside the city (who later became the Sunreavers).
    After all, what did the warcraft encyclopedia say diminished the standing of the remaining High Elves within the Alliance? The revelation of the actions of their forebears in breaking the world in the first place and the exposure of their addiction to magic. The Farstriders who viscerally objected to Rommath's techniques? I don't think it was about siphoning mana at all. For these Rangers, it was the public humiliation of sating their addiction before the scornful eyes of the Alliance that likely prompted them to object. And so they were exiled, because their pride would lead to everyone else getting killed.

    In other words, the High Elven exiles are those who chose what other races thought of them over their own people's immediate well being.

    That is my interpretation of the situation and on this occasion, I freely admit that I am not at all certain about it. It is an interpretation that I think best fits the available facts.

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by Pennem View Post
    @Thalassian Bob and @Obelisk Kai

    Look I don't wanna spend my holidays going in a cycle over this so I'll just say these few things:

    1) Warcraft Encyclopedia was written like back in vanilla or w/e -> before the Silver Covenant existed. There are parts of it that aren't canon anymore, such as the Alliance being wary of the High Elves in general, cuz we see them all around in the Alliance now post SC and on top of that I believe it says somewhere on Wowpedia that Tyrande even invited Vereesa to her and Malf's wedding thus indicating a thawing of relations between the two elf groups.

    2) Umbric would have no reason to bring up "As long as Silvermoon is within the Horde they may be wary of us" etc etc because High Elves as in the group that refers to themselves as High Elves/Silver Covenant are not a part of the Horde at all. Only Blood Elves.

    These are my reasons for why I said what I did in my earlier post, and shame on you @Obelisk Kai for using retconned portions of the Warcraft Encyclopedia as if it already wasn't retconned by the existence of the Silver Covenant and the growing number of High Elves seen in the Alliance since Vanilla WoW.

    But really, I don't care to keep going over and over this, it's frankly splitting hairs at this point (probably for a long while). I just got humongous good news in terms of my career and am going to spend the rest of 2019 enjoying the holidays.

    My personal want is still for a separate playable option of Alliance High Elves (not Void Elves), but if that can't happen then High Elf skins on VEs are a-ok by me!

    Have a happy holidays everyone!
    Your two points are mutually contradictory. Your second point only works if we accept the premise of your first point. And your first point is badly garbled.

    a.) Anyone who argues that a source is non canon because it is old has lost the argument. Pro High Elfers do this all the time. Simple rule Pennem, something is canon until we are explicitly told it isn't. Nothing in the Encyclopedia is non-canon. It has not been retconned. And it is only out of date in the sense that events have moved on. The encyclopedia entries on the elves are true as of the time period they reference, the end of classic.

    b.) Sure, Tyrande might know Alleria and Veressa are loyal members of the Alliance but the common folk? As far as they are concerned, the Elves of Quel'thalas cannot be trusted. Sure, Alleria is an Alliance hero but she's been away for years, can she really vouch for all of them? And now they're messing with the void, the priests in the cathedral say that these magics are sinful. And can we trust them? They might be spies. If I wanted to send a spy into Stormwind, I'd send one of them Blood Elves and have them pretend.

    In no way does it make sense the high elves are not mistrusted. You've got voided up ones running around, and most of them have betrayed the Alliance, joined the Horde and recently fought two wars against the Alliance. And you've got a tiny few high elven exiles running around saying they are loyal to the Alliance, whom the vast majority of Alliance citizens are never going to come into contact with?

    c.) High Elves walking around in Stormwind does not mean they are trusted. There are countless examples in Human history of untrusted minorities who are still free to roam the city, but are treated warily. Unjustifiable of course, but it did happen and it does happen even today.

    So while I hope you enjoy your holidays, I do hope you take the time to learn the difference between a retcon and the story progressing.
    Last edited by Obelisk Kai; 2019-12-07 at 10:03 PM.

  11. #13831
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    Quote Originally Posted by Pennem View Post
    @Thalassian Bob and @Obelisk Kai

    Look I don't wanna spend my holidays going in a cycle over this so I'll just say these few things:

    2) Umbric would have no reason to bring up "As long as Silvermoon is within the Horde they may be wary of us" etc etc because High Elves as in the group that refers to themselves as High Elves/Silver Covenant are not a part of the Horde at all. Only Blood Elves.

    These are my reasons for why I said what I did in my earlier post, and shame on you @Obelisk Kai for using retconned portions of the Warcraft Encyclopedia as if it already wasn't retconned by the existence of the Silver Covenant and the growing number of High Elves seen in the Alliance since Vanilla WoW.

    But really, I don't care to keep going over and over this, it's frankly splitting hairs at this point (probably for a long while). I just got humongous good news in terms of my career and am going to spend the rest of 2019 enjoying the holidays.

    My personal want is still for a separate playable option of Alliance High Elves (not Void Elves), but if that can't happen then High Elf skins on VEs are a-ok by me!

    Have a happy holidays everyone!
    But, debate is fun! Don't worry though, I feel you!

    I'll try keep it terse in response then. As I said before, I'm inclined to agree with you that this interaction points to the character speaking to him being of blood elf origin but as I believe you and I have discussed before, as long as someone isn't being completely outlandish in their headcanon, a little bending of the lore here and ignoring the odd text their to justify one's character backstory is perfectly acceptable. If, for example, I met a Mag'har who said there character was actually from Garadar and came to Azeroth with Garrosh and Saurfang Jr., I wouldn't bat an eyelid at it.

    Now, the contrarian in me might argue that the reference to Silvermoon being in the Horde being an issue could have a difficulty high elves faced even before the emergence of the void elves and one of the reasons the Silver Covenant seem so zealous may be because they feel they have more to prove. Perhaps high elves always faced suspicion from some citizens of the Alliance because of homeland's new allegiance. But, as you say, if we're both willing to allow a little creative licence to fit a roleplay, none of this matters, so I'll shut up!

    Enjoy the Christmas season and congratulations your career good news!

    I'd be happy with a dirty blonde hair colour for void elves and maybe a slightly less purple skin tone! Or some of those voided extremity mock ups to normal skin tones someone proposed earlier on!

    Quote Originally Posted by Obelisk Kai View Post
    During the Second War's earliest stages, Alleria Windrunner was very vocal about the need to support the Human kingdoms against this new threat they had heard rumours of, this 'Horde'. She was ignored, as the rulers of Quel'thalas did not believe the Horde posed a threat to them directly and they had little interest in participating in human affairs. Only when Anduin Lothar invoked the blood oath the Elves had sworn due to Humanity's aid in the Troll Wars did Quel'thalas relent.

    They sent the smallest force they possible could, and at it's head they placed Alleria Windrunner. The High Elves only really committed to the war when the threat from the Horde became immediate. After the war was one, and chronicles is quite clear about this, the High Elves were the first to leave, retreating into their traditional isolationism.

    When you look at the very few High Elves remaining today, what do we see? We see the Silver Covenant, an organisation so dominated by hunters that they were admitted to the Hunter class hall in Legion alongside the Farstriders (an organisation they purposely ape). And we see Mages almost overwhelmingly associated with the Kirin Tor of Dalaran.

    My personal theory is that those who didn't become Blood Elves are those who spent the most time with the Humans, Dwarves and Gnomes. The Farstriders who fought beside them during the Second War and the Mages of Dalaran who loved the city of magic so much that they stayed to rebuild it rather than going home to Quel'thalas alongside their Prince and the majority of the elven mages inside the city (who later became the Sunreavers).
    After all, what did the warcraft encyclopedia say diminished the standing of the remaining High Elves within the Alliance? The revelation of the actions of their forebears in breaking the world in the first place and the exposure of their addiction to magic. The Farstriders who viscerally objected to Rommath's techniques? I don't think it was about siphoning mana at all. For these Rangers, it was the public humiliation of sating their addiction before the scornful eyes of the Alliance that likely prompted them to object. And so they were exiled, because their pride would lead to everyone else getting killed.

    In other words, the High Elven exiles are those who chose what other races thought of them over their own people's immediate well being.

    That is my interpretation of the situation and on this occasion, I freely admit that I am not at all certain about it. It is an interpretation that I think best fits the available facts.
    An interesting theory! I had always pegged those vocal few who rejected the siphoning of magic to be doing it out of pride/arrogance - not wanting to 'lower themselves' by doing something as 'base' as draining common fauna of its magic. I hadn't considered that it could be the other side of the coin: insecurity.

  12. #13832
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    Thank the Lords this Thread is still around. I mean after the Megathread and other High Elf Threads on the Official Forums didn't last. I thought this one was gone. But nope.

    Its still going strong to this very day!

    So I came back not only to support Idea of Playable High Elves one way or another but also to come and apology in person for the way I acted to the High Elf Community and everyone else in general. It was very immature of me to be doing Rant Posts everywhere else including on here where I cause drama and issues. so I'm sorry for the things I did this year and I hope I can continue with the discussion without causing anymore problems. Plus I got over my Depression and been doing well so far.

    That being said. In terms of how the High Elves can be made playable? Honestly with the way of how Blizzard and rest of the WoW Community is now in days in terms of rejecting original color skin elven races on not just the Alliance but also the Horde that isn't Blue Skin Dark Elf Theme. Sadly we will never see a True Pure High Elf Race nor San'layn Race in General. But since Customization Options are a thing now. I thought that since maybe the Dark Ranger Customization Options are a maybe thing for Blood Elves. I thought Void Elf Customization Options in terms of the Quel'dorei would be Best. I mean look in the past I rejected the idea of them being a Customization Option because I thought it would be Half laziness. But after what Blizzard showed us in Blizzcon 2019 for what they did with the Wildhammer Dwarf Customization Options that is full on Colorful Tattoos, Different Skin Tunes, Hairstyles, and etc.

    I thought the same thing could happen to the Void Elves. I mean alot of people may say that is impossible to do so because they are forever blue because of the void magic. Well why not have the same scenario like Alleria did with a Naaru or something crazy like a mix of Arcane with Light and Void or something and boom they are back being Original color skin Elves but not really since when in Combat they go into Void Form like Alleria but still keep the Tattoos and Voidy Braided Hairstyles. Basically the idea of Two Form Worgen Idea.

    Now we all know what we want for Void Elves in terms of Customization Options of being High Elves.

    Skin Tunes: White, Pink, Brown, and Black. Why Black and Brown? Well if the Wildhammer Dwarves who were suppose to be Pure White Scottish Celtic Dwarves who now have Black Skin Dwarves. Why not High/Void Elves?
    Tattoos: Blue, White, Purple, Red, Green, Yellow, and Black.
    Hair Colors: Ginger, Black, Brown, Blonde, and Snowy White.
    Hairstyles: Braided Hair, Bald option for the men, and etc.
    Eye Colors: Purple, Pink, Black, Emerald, Silver, and Deep Blue.

    That's pretty much about it for the High Elf Customization Options for Void Elves. I'm not sure when we hear the news about Customization Options in the Future for Allied Races but let's hope so since right now Void Elf Story is very lacking and not really going anywhere since the very beginning.
    High Elves and Wildhammer Dwarves are finally playable in the Alliance. XD

  13. #13833
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    Quote Originally Posted by Thalassian Bob View Post
    An interesting theory! I had always pegged those vocal few who rejected the siphoning of magic to be doing it out of pride/arrogance - not wanting to 'lower themselves' by doing something as 'base' as draining common fauna of its magic. I hadn't considered that it could be the other side of the coin: insecurity.
    It's only a theory, but I've never been convinced by this idea that the exiles were upset over the use of what I think are regarded as vermin to sustain their people. Rather it was trying to sate the addiction, rather than beat it that upset them and given those were upset were those who were most attached to the Alliance to begin with, I think they reckoned it made them look like junkies to those they saw as allies.

  14. #13834
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    Quote Originally Posted by Obelisk Kai View Post
    It's only a theory, but I've never been convinced by this idea that the exiles were upset over the use of what I think are regarded as vermin to sustain their people. Rather it was trying to sate the addiction, rather than beat it that upset them and given those were upset were those who were most attached to the Alliance to begin with, I think they reckoned it made them look like junkies to those they saw as allies.
    That could very well be the case. They saw in others what they loathed to see in themselves.

    And, yeah, the likes of mana wyrms always struck me as being like the pigeons of Quel'Thalas, rather than everyone suddenly taking to doing the equivalent of killing their pet cats or something!
    Last edited by Thalassian Bob; 2019-12-08 at 12:29 AM.

  15. #13835
    Quote Originally Posted by Obelisk Kai View Post
    All Void Elves are not factually Blood Elves, because Alleria was never a Blood Elf and yet she is a Void Elf, in fact she is the Void Elf racial leader.
    All Void Elves that are factually Blood Elves, and the leader being the High Elf doesn't change that. It's like saying but not all Lightforged are Draeneis, tho its only one whos not, the leader, Turalyon. This just here proves you are just being disingenuous. So far every Void Elf we see ingame are former Blood Elves, except the leader, Alleria. Is that better then? Nothing proves that there are Alliance High Elves being Void Elves. So for you to use that statement is being hypocritical, because when you argue with others you always say that only canon lore is proving anything.

    3a.) Related to the previous point, Moorgard (when asked where do Void Elf numbers come from) said that other elves have heard about them, are seeking them out, and are undergoing a similar process.
    There is no proof of this, so stop using this as fact. Not even what he said.

    You are also not approaching this topic from unbiased viewpoint. You want the Void Elves to be unable to reproduce so that they cannot convert High Elven exiles. If they cannot convert High Elven exiles, you can argue that the 'pure Alliance High Elves' can still be added to the game as a distinct grouping. In other words, you have motive in attempting to say the Void Elves cannot do this.
    Yeah, you don't understand what I want. I am not advocating for Alliance High Elves being playable, I am advocating for more playable options. In other words, you have no idea what I want, because you just like to ignore what I actually write. I am actually coming here with an unbiased viewpoint, you however do not. That you even dare to say that to other people is just embarrassing.
    Last edited by Doffen; 2019-12-08 at 12:52 AM.

  16. #13836
    Legendary! Obelisk Kai's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Thalassian Bob View Post
    That could very well be the case. They saw in others what they loathed to see in themselves.

    And, yeah, the likes of mana wyrms always struck me as being like the pigeons of Quel'Thalas, rather than everyone suddenly taking to doing the equivalent of killing their pet cats or something!
    I would agree with this sentiment. I simply cannot see how killing vermin under extreme circumstances could lead to a schism. It had to have been the act itself that was the point of contention, the pragmatism of the majority population who couldn't give a toss about an Alliance which they felt had betrayed them versus the idealism of a few Farstriders (who spent most of their time outside Quel'thalas anyway) who had complained for years about Quel'thalas's attitude. It is easy to imagine that in the heated arguments prior to the exile, these renegade Farstriders might have insinuated that Quel'thalas' predicament was the direct result of the isolationist and aloof attitude they had held towards the Alliance before the fall.

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by Doffen View Post
    All Void Elves that are factually Blood Elves, and the leader being the High Elf doesn't change that.
    Alleria is not a traditional High Elf, she is a Void Elf who was a High Elf and was never a Blood Elf. Her existence proves your blanket statement wrong.

    Quote Originally Posted by Doffen View Post
    It's like saying but not all Lightforged are Draeneis, tho its only one whos not, the leader, Turalyon. This just here proves you are just being disingenuous.
    Every lightforged bar two are Draenei. Turalyon is a lightforged Human. Lothraxion is a lightforged Nathrezim. However, your comparison fails because a high elf exile is not a distinct race as Draenei are, they are a political faction of thalassian elves. All Void Elves are thalassian elves. The vast majority likely are former Blood Elves simply because we know the number of High Elven exiles are incredibly low. But a Void Elf player can chose an origin of a High Elven exile in their own mind and nothing in game contradicts that.

    Quote Originally Posted by Doffen View Post
    So far every Void Elf we see ingame are former Blood Elves, except the leader, Alleria. Is that better then? Nothing proves that there are Alliance High Elves being Void Elves. So for you to use that statement is being hypocritical, because when you argue with others you always say that only canon lore is proving anything.
    And developer comment. Moorgard's comment is pretty clear and straightforward to me, he answered the question of 'where do void elf numbers come from?' with 'others seek them out to undergo the same process'. In fact, the only way his answer makes sense in regards to the question asked is that interpretation. The other interpretation, which is nonsensical, is that he didn't answer the question but instead segued into other elves wandering over to learn the ways and void and undergo a similar process that would do nothing at all.

    The contortions pro High Elfers go through to deny that he said what he said are a familiar tactic. The same thing happened with Ion ruling out playable Alliance High Elven exiles at Blizzcon 2017, an attempt to parse his words in an attempt to turn his no into a maybe. Which as I recall, the pro High Elf community actually managed to convince themselves of and a position they held onto until the April 2018 Q and A when he restated the position with added snark.


    Quote Originally Posted by Doffen View Post
    There is no proof of this, so stop using this as fact. Not even what he said.
    He literally said exactly that.

    Originally Posted by Blizzard Entertainment
    “They start out as a small group,” Danuser continues. “But it’s natural as other elves have found out about them — elves who are interested in new sources of magic, power, or opportunities — would see if they could undergo a similar process. They’re not ... recruiting, necessarily, but they’re open to those who show a similar interest.”

    Quote Originally Posted by Doffen View Post
    Yeah, you don't understand what I want. I am not advocating for Alliance High Elves being playable, I am advocating for more playable options. In other words, you have no idea what I want, because you just like to ignore what I actually write. I am actually coming here with an unbiased viewpoint, you however do not. That you even dare to say that to other people is just embarrassing.
    If you argue in favour of playable Alliance High Elves, then I will debate you as a pro High Elfer. I'm not interested if you justify to yourself that you are an unbiased viewpoint or however you want to phrase it. You are most certainly non unbiased on this topic.
    Last edited by Obelisk Kai; 2019-12-08 at 09:23 AM.

  17. #13837
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    Quote Originally Posted by Obelisk Kai View Post
    I would agree with this sentiment. I simply cannot see how killing vermin under extreme circumstances could lead to a schism. It had to have been the act itself that was the point of contention, the pragmatism of the majority population who couldn't give a toss about an Alliance which they felt had betrayed them versus the idealism of a few Farstriders (who spent most of their time outside Quel'thalas anyway) who had complained for years about Quel'thalas's attitude. It is easy to imagine that in the heated arguments prior to the exile, these renegade Farstriders might have insinuated that Quel'thalas' predicament was the direct result of the isolationist and aloof attitude they had held towards the Alliance before the fall.
    Mm. Quite probable! And nobody likes a Captain Hindsight! ^^

  18. #13838
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    Quote Originally Posted by Thalassian Bob View Post
    Mm. Quite probable! And nobody likes a Captain Hindsight! ^^
    Yep but the actual specifics of the schism are subject to speculation as they weren't thoroughly explained. Not that it matters now of course. The restoration of the Sunwell led the Blood/High Elves back to the status quo ante, with the addiction permanently sated. What is left now is the rancour of the divide and the political differences that now define that divide.

  19. #13839
    Quote Originally Posted by Obelisk Kai View Post
    Alleria is not a traditional High Elf, she is a Void Elf who was a High Elf and was never a Blood Elf. Her existence proves your blanket statement wrong.
    Every Void Elf in the game is former Blood Elf. Alleria is their leader. But every Void Elf, both playable and npc's came with Magister Umbric. I like how you try to shift goalpost though. So my statement is correct, no matter how much you want to RP.

    Every lightforged bar two are Draenei. Turalyon is a lightforged Human. Lothraxion is a lightforged Nathrezim. However, your comparison fails because a high elf exile is not a distinct race as Draenei are, they are a political faction of thalassian elves. All Void Elves are thalassian elves. The vast majority likely are former Blood Elves simply because we know the number of High Elven exiles are incredibly low. But a Void Elf player can chose an origin of a High Elven exile in their own mind and nothing in game contradicts that.
    Yeah, like always, a comparison that is just the same as Alleria/Void Elf is something different. This is why you are just being disingenuous. It's exactly the same. And it's not High Elves of the Alliance we are talking about here, it's Blood Elves. There are nothing that says that Void Elves are former High Elves. So you try to make my comparison void(pun). Everything in the game contradicts that a void elf is former Alliance High Elf. Magister Umbric says that himself. People can RP as much as they want. Doesn't make it correct.


    And developer comment. Moorgard's comment is pretty clear and straightforward to me, he answered the question of 'where do void elf numbers come from?' with 'others seek them out to undergo the same process'. In fact, the only way his answer makes sense in regards to the question asked is that interpretation. The other interpretation, which is nonsensical, is that he didn't answer the question but instead segued into other elves wandering over to learn the ways and void and undergo a similar process that would do nothing at all.
    Yeah for you, big surprise. I just find it funny that you can take vague statements with no answers as truth, while when someone else comes with something as vague, you just ignore it because it's "not canon". He didn't answer the question whether Alliance High Elves or Blood Elves are becoming Void Elves. Do you know the actual question?

    "If they come from a small group of Silvermoon Exiles, how are they an Allied Race? Where do the numbers come from?"

    So far it doesn't say who, and in game says Void Elves are only former Blood Elves. The numbers probably comes from more Blood Elves that miss the old Alliance. It's they who delve into magical power afterall, High Elves stay away from that sort of thing. So it's only natural to interpret that statement that more Blood Elves are turning into Void Elves, and the game reflects that.



    He literally said exactly that.

    Originally Posted by Blizzard Entertainment
    “They start out as a small group,” Danuser continues. “But it’s natural as other elves have found out about them — elves who are interested in new sources of magic, power, or opportunities — would see if they could undergo a similar process. They’re not ... recruiting, necessarily, but they’re open to those who show a similar interest.”
    Literally not what he said. I mean, how do you justify your interpretations? We know how you misunderstood what Ion said back in 2017, so its the same here? Until said or shown otherwise, only Blood Elves have turned into Void Elves. But that can change, and like I said before, I'll quote you and say "finally, Alliance High Elves now also are part of the Void Elves".
    If you argue in favour of playable Alliance High Elves, then I will debate you as a pro High Elfer. I'm not interested if you justify to yourself that you are an unbiased viewpoint or however you want to phrase it. You are most certainly non unbiased on this topic.
    And for some reason you seem eager to pinpoint me into something I am not. Which is kinda strange seeing how you say you are not interested.

    I am, unlike you, unbiased because Blood Elves and Void Elves are better than pure High Elves. And we can play as both now. And I don't participate to this thread as much as I did. But when you come with incorrect, false info I need to point out.
    Last edited by Doffen; 2019-12-08 at 11:13 AM.

  20. #13840
    Mechagnome Thalassian Bob's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Obelisk Kai View Post
    Yep but the actual specifics of the schism are subject to speculation as they weren't thoroughly explained. Not that it matters now of course. The restoration of the Sunwell led the Blood/High Elves back to the status quo ante, with the addiction permanently sated. What is left now is the rancour of the divide and the political differences that now define that divide.
    Yeah, there's probably as many reasons as there are Quel'dorei stragglers, just like how in the real world people emigrate for a myriad of reasons.

    Also, relevant to our prior discussion of void elf malleability in the context of Umbric's spiel:


    (Just spoke to Alleria after a transmog run)

    If the Alliance are going to call into question the loyalties of a hero immortalised in marble at the gates of SW, what chance does a SC or Kirin Tor Quel'dorei grunt who decides to go void have?!

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