Official High Elf Discussion Megathread

[elbleuet]

Individuals can be aligned to either faction, but when they live in Dalaran they are neutral. Hence the Sunreavers 'owed fealty' to the Horde, yet when Thalen Songweaver was allowed to assist the defence of Dalaran it was because he was doing so as part of a neutral delegation of Dalaran mages. Loyalty to Dalaran and the Kirin Tor and it's stance of neutrality supersedes loyalty to the Alliance and Horde. Dalaran itself is not a person, it is a political state and it is neutral, neither Alliance or Horde.

In order for those 7th Legion Shield Mages to even act on behalf of the Alliance during the Fourth War, they had to do so as part of the 7th Legion and not as a part of the Silver Covenant. If you are a member of the Silver Covenant, you clearly have to put Dalaran first even if everyone knows of the pronounced Alliance lean of that organisation.

You still don't get it.

Dalaran will always favor the Alliance, and will never fight for the Horde.

The Horde is only invited, to fight for the greater good. The Alliance isn't invited in Dalaran. Because the Alliance & Dalaran are part of the same side.

[Obelisk Kai]

There is absolutely zero hypocrisy in what I'm writing, despite your attempts at frame my words as such.

I "discount" the idea of high elves being mistrusted because that's what the game has been showing us since TBC: more and more high elves in the Alliance, even in the military.

By the way: you can also count the "in-game representation" of the dark iron dwarves in WoW, prior to BfA (when they were announced as a future Allied Race) in one hand, from Cataclysm to Legion.

There is plentiful hypocrisy. You discount a canon statement by stating you have personally seen no evidence for it in game, yet then say in game evidence of the pitiful contribution the high elven exiles made to the Alliance during the war should be discounted as an in game representation cannot be fully trusted.

The game has not been showing you more and more high elves within the Alliance. It has been showing the same small group at different points in time and in different areas. As the population of this group has been affirmed again and again and again and again as being very low, attempting to pretend there are more of them than there actually are is wish fulfilment.

Dark Iron Dwarves had a strong presence in three outdoor zones and a role in a major dungeon. Their presence was substantial from day one. And they are a distinct variant of Dwarf, not identical to Bronzebeard Dwarves with only an ideological bone to pick.

"Vanishingly low". Look at you, making hyperbole and trying to pass it as fact.

Caydiem in 2005 said the High Elf population was way below that of Gnomes, who had recently suffered an extinction level event depleting their population by approximately 80%.

The Warcraft Encyclopedia, confirmed canon by Sean Copeland, stated that there were too few High Elves for them to count as a distinct race.

On both occasions Ion Hazzikostas rejected playable High Elves for the Alliance, he cited their population levels as the lore based rationale for their rejection (the gameplay rationale being them being identical to an already existing, playable race).

You want to imagine the High Elf exiles as a strong, important component of the Alliance. Nothing supports that assertion. On the issue of population, every statement and source emphasises how small they are.

The high elf population may be low now, and yet void elves, who are even fewer in numbers, are playable. And before you say "but they can make more void elves", two things: first, we have not yet been shown that to be true. In Telogrus' Rift, we don't see a single elf being converted into a void elf.

Yes, that is the normal response. But let's try something different. It doesn't matter. The population issue is the lore based rationale for why they aren't playable. The real reason is that they are already playable as the Blood Elves of the Horde and they don't want to water down the factions by giving you a duplicate of a core Horde race.

Frankly there could be ten times as many high elves and they still wouldn't give them to the Alliance because of the existence of Blood Elves. But then you'd argue against the gameplay reason by citing how big and important hey are in lore, and you'd have actual evidence to that effect, hence why they are actually written as impoverished and puny.

And on top of that, there are many, many ways of boosting the high elf population. From undiscovered lands to even different dimensions.

When they do that you may have an argument. But I don't think they do that because a.) such answers would be blatantly ridiculous and b.) if they'd wanted to do that, they wouldn't have invented Void Elves.

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You still don't get it.

Dalaran will always favor the Alliance, and will never fight for the Horde.

The Horde is only invited, to fight for the greater good. The Alliance isn't invited in Dalaran. Because the Alliance & Dalaran are part of the same side.

The fact Dalaran didn't participate in the recent war is proof that you are incorrect on this point.

Were Dalaran a member of the Alliance, it would have fought for the Alliance. It did not.

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I don't think this is the case from either a lore or gameplay standpoint, myself. The Silver Covenant was created in response to the creation of the Sunreaver faction by Aethas, itself explicitly designed to give the Horde access to Dalaran and a presence there. It literally has its origins as a partisan organization designed to counter the presence of the other faction. Silver Covenant NPC's are tagged as Alliance, just as the Sunreavers are Horde, and the Silver Covenant location of WotLK-era Dalaran is flagged Alliance-only with Horde members ported out. While the NPC's may not be openly hostile and attack on sight this is pretty far from neutral, and Horde members are very obviously unwelcome and denied access to Silver Covenant territory (the same being true of the Sunreavers for Alliance members).

With Silver Covenant NPC's quite literally Alliance flagged, I would say they're not neutral at all. Nor are the Sunreavers, for that matter.

Nor did I say individuals are neutral. They are clearly Alliance and Horde aligned. But living in neutral Dalaran as they do, they must are bound by the neutrality of the Kirin Tor.

This is why Thalen Songweaver was allowed into the city of Theramore as part of the Dalaran delegation, because his membership of the Kirin Tor was supposed to outweigh his partisan alignment to the Horde. This of course proved to a be a mistake, but this was the rationale behind why he was admitted.
This is also why the Sunreavers did not participate openly against the Alliance, nor the Silver Covenant against the Horde, during the Pandaria Horde-Alliance war. They were bound by the neutrality of Dalaran.
The Sunreavers only became a part of the Blood Elf, and thus the Horde military, following their purging and their integration into the forces of the Blood Elves was specifically requests by Lor'themar in the quest text immediately following the return of the Horde player to Silvermoon foolowing the purge.

The Silver Covenant is hostile to the Horde, but they are bound by Dalaran neutrality. The Sunreavers were kicked out and still have not returned to Dalaran, they are no longer bound by Dalaran neutrality.

Were this not the case, please explain why

1.) The Silver Covenant has almost always only been present during story periods when Dalaran played a major role in the narrative and is otherwise absent. The one exception to this, their presence outside Zul'Aman, seemingly counted for very little given Chronicles canonically confirmed the Horde dealt with the Amani threat in cataclysm. (The presence of the SC seems to have been solely to facilitate Alliance adventurers going to ZA. As the Alliance did not clear Zul'Aman, I would doubt the canonicity of their presence, in the same way the Shrine of the Storms was not cleared by a group of Horde adventurers and Rexxar).
2.) The Silver Covenant did not assist the Alliance during the opening stages of the Pandaria war and only actively assisted the Alliance after Dalaran joined the Alliance.
3.) The Silver Covenant did not participate in the Fourth War, neither in game or in any of the missions represented by the mission table which detailed the wider conflict.
4.) That the only npcs we think were associated with the Silver Covenant were two shield mages who didn't get off the airship to fight, whom we only know were silver covenant because of datamining, and if we assume that was not a mistake (which is possible) have had to fight the war as 7th Legion, not Silver Covenant.

None of these scenarios fit with a part of the Alliance.

They do however fit with a partisan organisation based in and living in Dalaran, constrained by the official policy of neutrality of that city.

[Manariel]

Three Pandarens ingame made a playable race. Six, if we count the fact that the two factions got them. There is no need for additional high Elves, when the whole population of just Quel'danil is at least thrice the size of those, ingame.

[Obelisk Kai]

The Silver Covenant sides with the Alliance, no matter how relevant they are now. They are not neutral. They don't do anything but to kill Horde if they get the chance. They are siding with Alliance even in peace times. That you say that the Sunreavers are always horde but the Covenant is not always Alliance doesn't bode well with me.

The Sunreavers were kicked out of Dalaran. They don't live there anymore. They were integrated into the Blood Elf military. The Covenant lives in Dalaran. They are bound by the neutrality of the Kirin Tor officially, no matter how much it may personally rankle them. That they would prefer the Kirin Tor to be pro Alliance is clear for all to see.

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Three Pandarens ingame made a playable race. Six, if we count the fact that the two factions got them. There is no need for additional high Elves, when the whole population of just Quel'danil is at least thrice the size of those, ingame.

Pandaren are probably one of the most numerous races in the game given they are the dominant population of an entire continent with multiple settlements spread across multiple zones as well as the wandering isle. Canonically, the player Pandaren is the friend of Ji and Aysa from the Wandering Isle, but all other Pandaren (from the perspective of the Pandaren player) are Huojin or Tushui who were encouraged to join the Horde and Alliance respectively.

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I think Aucald's and Doffen's responses explain it well enough, but beyond that


There's no proof of this if you are saying the Silver Covenant left the Alliance at the start of Legion. Considering that in BfA we also have their faction as opening portals to old Dalaran in the new "as of BFA" summoning rooms.

I think continuing to latch onto the idea that "the Silver Covenant are a neutral faction" just shows the lengths of ignorance one is willing to go to reduce the presence of High Elves on the Alliance.

The Silver Covenant is

1) Only friendly to the Alliance
2) Reputation that can only be earned by Alliance members
3) Kicks out Horde players from their section of Dalaran for not being an Alliance member
4) Has its members providing aid to the Alliance throughout numerous occasions and has shown delight in killing Horde members

I'm not sure how one can continue to say they are neutral besides not wanting to admit that they're wrong. It's such an obvious thing and I don't take you for missing the obvious. But you have shown yourself to resist admitting when you're wrong.

It would be like someone trying to say Hozen and Jinyu are neutral factions to Alliance and Horde.

In regards to those who are opening portals to old Dalaran in Stormwind, this means nothing. The Silver Covenant is bound by the neutrality of Dalaran, but the members of the Silver Covenant are partisan towards the Alliance, seeking to aid it at every opportunity. That they would handle the Old Dalaran portal is unsurprising.

Of course, this brings up the fuzzy area of the fact that the portal to Old Dalaran is inconsistent with the modern timeframe, as we know Dalaran was moved to the Broken Isles. Were this particular room an honest representation of the game as it should be, there would be no Old Dalaran portal. However, for gameplay reasons, there must be . Therefore, the mages operating the portal being of the group that assisted the Alliance of that time makes sense. I would not rely on this example too much, as the temporal implications can induce headaches.

The Silver Covenant is not neutral out of choice. They are neutral because they are based in Dalaran. They advocate for closer ties between the Alliance and the city, and were clearly at their most successful during the Pandaria campaign. When Jaina ended neutrality after all, they went on a rampage. Neutrality has been restored though and they are constrained again.

[elbleuet]

The fact Dalaran didn't participate in the recent war is proof that you are incorrect on this point.

Were Dalaran a member of the Alliance, it would have fought for the Alliance. It did not.

That's just what I said. Dalaran is an Alliance nation, but neutral to the Horde, and led by an Alliance character.

[Obelisk Kai]

That's just what I said. Dalaran is an Alliance nation, but neutral to the Horde, and led by an Alliance character.

No, Dalaran is a Human nation but it is not part of the Alliance. Were it a part of the Alliance, it would have fought for the Alliance in the recent war.

[Ielenia]

There is plentiful hypocrisy.

Which you mean zero.

You discount a canon statement

I "discount the canon statement" in the same way I discount a statement from a political magazine saying who is the current president, when said magazine was published in 2006, and the year today is 2019.

yet then say in game evidence of the pitiful contribution the high elven exiles made to the Alliance during the war should be discounted as an in game representation cannot be fully trusted.

Except you are the only one "quantifying" the amount of help offered and setting up an arbitrary requirement of how much a given race must help the Alliance to be considered part of it, which, oh-so-coincidentally seems to be just high enough to discount high elves as an Alliance race.

Whereas I don't believe there is a "minimum requirement" for a race to be considered part of the Alliance other than, y'know, actually helping the Alliance, which the high elves do.

You're calling me "hypocrite" simply because I refuse to play your game.

in 2005

There's your mistake. Do you honestly believe that the lore has been static and never changing since 2005?

You want to imagine the High Elf exiles as a strong, important component of the Alliance. Nothing supports that assertion. On the issue of population, every statement and source emphasises how small they are.

"Strong and important"? Who said that? Not me. I simply said they are part of the Alliance. And "small population" arguments are "dead on the water", considering all the different ways Blizzard could do to boost their population.

Yes, that is the normal response. But let's try something different. It doesn't matter. The population issue is the lore based rationale for why they aren't playable. The real reason is that they are already playable as the Blood Elves of the Horde and they don't want to water down the factions by giving you a duplicate of a core Horde race.

And yet... they did exactly that. Only putting a purple filter onto said duplicate.

Frankly there could be ten times as many high elves and they still wouldn't give them to the Alliance because of the existence of Blood Elves. But then you'd argue against the gameplay reason by citing how big and important hey are in lore, and you'd have actual evidence to that effect, hence why they are actually written as impoverished and puny.

When they do that you may have an argument.

So, by your admission, I do have an argument. Because Blizzard has created a whole new tribe of tauren, the Highmountain, in a previously unexplored continent. Blizzard has also created a whole new population of orcs, the Mag'har, from another dimension.

Ridiculous is stating Blizzard hasn't done that when they actually have.

[elbleuet]

No, Dalaran is a Human nation but it is not part of the Alliance. Were it a part of the Alliance, it would have fought for the Alliance in the recent war.

Nah since Dalaran is neutral to the Horde. Alliance and neutral in the same time. Just like I said. That's why Dalaran didn't fought for the Alliance.

[Obelisk Kai]

I "discount the canon statement" in the same way I discount a statement from a political magazine saying who is the current president, when said magazine was published in 2006, and the year today is 2019.

Which is not a valid interpretation of my introduction of that example. The political magazine metaphor was meant to emphasise the continuity of events, that what is happening in 2019 did not happen in a vacuum and that you can trace the course of events back to previous years to see how they developed. A statement made therefore at the end of classic regarding the situation of the High Elves is as relevant as a statement in the 2019 magazine stating that the 2006 President was George W Bush.

That you keep misinterpreting the metaphor is mystifying.

Except you are the only one "quantifying" the amount of help offered and setting up an arbitrary requirement of how much a given race must help the Alliance to be considered part of it, which, oh-so-coincidentally seems to be just high enough to discount high elves as an Alliance race.

Whereas I don't believe there is a "minimum requirement" for a race to be considered part of the Alliance other than, y'know, actually helping the Alliance, which the high elves do.

The minimum requirement is that they aren't already playable on the other faction, which the high elven exiles flunked. This also rules out Alliance Grimtotem Tauren as well so it's not just the Elves being singled out here.

You're calling me "hypocrite" simply because I refuse to play your game.

No, I said you were being hypocritical because you cited the in game evidence of your own personal experience to attempt to disprove the encyclopedia statement that high elves weren't trusted and you then said in game evidence didn't matter if it portrayed high elf population levels as being really pitiful. Your hypocrisy stems from you measuring the quality of the evidence based upon whether the result in each case is more to your liking or not.

There's your mistake. Do you honestly believe that the lore has been static and never changing since 2005?

No but I don't believe everything is wiped away every five minutes and the world created fresh and anew, free from the consequences of what came previously either.

"Strong and important"? Who said that? Not me. I simply said they are part of the Alliance. And "small population" arguments are "dead on the water", considering all the different ways Blizzard could do to boost their population.

Yeah, alternative dimensions and hidden lands aren't going to happen though. That just sounds like really bad fanfiction.

And yet... they did exactly that. Only putting a purple filter onto said duplicate.

So, by your admission, I do have an argument. Because Blizzard has created a whole new tribe of tauren, the Highmountain, in a previously unexplored continent. Blizzard has also created a whole new population of orcs, the Mag'har, from another dimension.

Ridiculous is stating Blizzard hasn't done that when they actually have.

Blizzard already did that for the High Elves. They turned some purple and gave them to you. Just like all your examples, they are a variant.

[RangerDaz]

Damn, i haven't posted in this thread for a while... 200 pages later it is still the same arguments over and over

Just give High Elf options to both Void Elves and Blood Elves, then everyone is happy.

The problem is the Silver Covenant High Elves are neither Blood Elves (their eyes weren't tainted with fel or with holy light from the holy light cleansed sunwell), nor are they void tainted (Void Elves evolved from Blood Elves).

The Silver Covenant Elves were High Elves who didn't remain in quel'thalas when Kael'thas lead his people in Wacraft 3 Frozen Throne, but instead were scattered over Eastern Kingdoms. Many of them seeked refuge in the Mage Dalaran Order, and they were never tainted by other magic sources besides arcane magic. The Silver Covenant Elves have always remained Alliance and they always had a spotlight in WoW lore, especially since Wrath of the Lich King, although some High Elves were seen in Outland in Alleria's Post (Terrokar). They also had an important role in the purge of Dalaran (Mists) and in the freedom of Suramar (Elisande talks to each, night elves, blood elves and Veressa's elves, separately).

It is clear that the Silver Covenant is a different type of Quel'thalas Elves, the ones that are closer to the original Quel'thalas high Elves before the Scourge invasion in Warcraft 3.

But for all the Horde loyalists who do not wish to share the Blood Elf model with the Alliance, all these arguments are not relevant at all

[Aldo Hawk]

A real world example is the United Nations. When my father served in the UN peacekeeping forces in Cyprus he did not go as a member of the Irish Defense Forces. He went as a UN Peacekeeper. Ireland's attitudes towards the Cyprus conflict were irrelevant to his status as he was operating under the UN.

Isn't the United Nations more akin to the Argent Crusade or the Armies of Legionfall? You know... ACTUAL NEUTRAL FACTIONS?!?!

The Silver Covenant is not neutral, it's Alliance aligned. The spiel of 'the members are Alliance but the organisation is neutral' makes no sense whatsoever, but hey, this is what you have been doing for a year, grasping straws to continue the opposition. Do I have to remind that this is not a political debate?

[Aucald]

Nor did I say individuals are neutral. They are clearly Alliance and Horde aligned. But living in neutral Dalaran as they do, they must are bound by the neutrality of the Kirin Tor.

The neutrality of the Kirin Tor only prevents them from indulging in open hostility, the same as the Horde and Alliance can't attack one another in Shattrath City due to the Sha'tar's insistence on neutrality. That doesn't make them neutral in and of themselves, nor does it confer neutrality to their respective organizations.

This is why Thalen Songweaver was allowed into the city of Theramore as part of the Dalaran delegation, because his membership of the Kirin Tor was supposed to outweigh his partisan alignment to the Horde. This of course proved to a be a mistake, but this was the rationale behind why he was admitted. This is also why the Sunreavers did not participate openly against the Alliance, nor the Silver Covenant against the Horde, during the Pandaria Horde-Alliance war. They were bound by the neutrality of Dalaran. The Sunreavers only became a part of the Blood Elf, and thus the Horde military, following their purging and their integration into the forces of the Blood Elves was specifically requests by Lor'themar in the quest text immediately following the return of the Horde player to Silvermoon foolowing the purge.

Thalen Songweaver was actually a member of the Kirin Tor in good standing, above and beyond his Sunreaver affiliation. Rhonin actually recommended him for the mission in Theramore, not knowing of his direct loyalty to Garrosh. The Silver Covenant and Sunreavers weren't involved in the Pandaria conflict prior to the Purge because it didn't concern them and was happening half a world away. It wasn't until the conflict was brought home to them, in which Dalaran suspended its neutrality, that they got directly involved.

The Silver Covenant is hostile to the Horde, but they are bound by Dalaran neutrality. The Sunreavers were kicked out and still have not returned to Dalaran, they are no longer bound by Dalaran neutrality.

Hostile != neutral, in any context. Dalaran constrains them, yes, but they remain completely partisan and non-neutral.

1.) The Silver Covenant has almost always only been present during story periods when Dalaran played a major role in the narrative and is otherwise absent. The one exception to this, their presence outside Zul'Aman, seemingly counted for very little given Chronicles canonically confirmed the Horde dealt with the Amani threat in cataclysm. (The presence of the SC seems to have been solely to facilitate Alliance adventurers going to ZA. As the Alliance did not clear Zul'Aman, I would doubt the canonicity of their presence, in the same way the Shrine of the Storms was not cleared by a group of Horde adventurers and Rexxar).

Both the Silver Covenant and the Sunreavers are orders previously centered in Dalaran - it makes sense they don't have much of a role when Dalaran isn't involved in the central narrative. The same reason the Sha'tar don't tend to involve themselves in direct conflicts. Vareesa's presence in Zul'Aman is canon, though; as it's been referred to as an event that occurred such as in the Hunter Order Hall campaign in Legion.

2.) The Silver Covenant did not assist the Alliance during the opening stages of the Pandaria war and only actively assisted the Alliance after Dalaran joined the Alliance.

That doesn't make them neutral, either.

3.) The Silver Covenant did not participate in the Fourth War, neither in game or in any of the missions represented by the mission table which detailed the wider conflict.

Neither are the Sunreavers in any official capacity.

4.) That the only npcs we think were associated with the Silver Covenant were two shield mages who didn't get off the airship to fight, whom we only know were silver covenant because of datamining, and if we assume that was not a mistake (which is possible) have had to fight the war as 7th Legion, not Silver Covenant.

None of these scenarios fit with a part of the Alliance.

They do however fit with a partisan organisation based in and living in Dalaran, constrained by the official policy of neutrality of that city.

The Silver Covenant has a distinction that their Blood Elven peers don't share in, as their membership is comprised entirely of a group that is critically endangered in terms of population. They can't afford to commit themselves willy-nilly to every Alliance engagement, as they likely lack the numbers to do so. There are a good deal many more Blood Elves than there are High Elven exiles, after all. It makes sense the Sunreavers would have more numbers, and be able to have a greater profile in terms of their overall presence.

[FlubberPuddy]

Of course, this brings up the fuzzy area of the fact that the portal to Old Dalaran is inconsistent with the modern timeframe, as we know Dalaran was moved to the Broken Isles. Were this particular room an honest representation of the game as it should be, there would be no Old Dalaran portal. However, for gameplay reasons, there must be . Therefore, the mages operating the portal being of the group that assisted the Alliance of that time makes sense. I would not rely on this example too much, as the temporal implications can induce headaches.

You're the one making the temporal implication. That summoning room was added during BfA, therefore everything in there is more current than anything before. Hence why you see a Void Elf being trained by a High Elf mage, it shows that currently the High Elven mage trainer has received new pupils and is teaching them now.

The Silver Covenant is not neutral out of choice. They are neutral because they are based in Dalaran. They advocate for closer ties between the Alliance and the city, and were clearly at their most successful during the Pandaria campaign. When Jaina ended neutrality after all, they went on a rampage. Neutrality has been restored though and they are constrained again.

As I asked earlier and you ignored, I'll do so again: Where is your proof that Silver Covenant has become neutral and "are constrained"? Also it isn't the first time that 7th Legion High Elves were faction-tagged as Silver Covenant. As early as wrath (and I believe that's when the 7th Legion was formed), there have been 7th Legion High Elf mages that have been faction-tagged as Silver Covenant.

Silver Covenant was introduced as an Alliance faction and they have stayed as an Alliance faction. Just because you keep repeating that they're neutral doesn't make it true, and there is a mountain of evidence in-game that displays their affiliation to the Alliance.

At this point you're not introducing any new information that hasn't been discussed in terms of the Silver Covenant so I'm not going to comment on it any more. You can keep believing what you wish, but it's sufficient for me to see others also agreeing that Silver Covenant are an Alliance faction.

[Aldo Hawk]

4.) That the only npcs we think were associated with the Silver Covenant were two shield mages who didn't get off the airship to fight, whom we only know were silver covenant because of datamining, and if we assume that was not a mistake (which is possible) have had to fight the war as 7th Legion, not Silver Covenant.

Again with this?



What does this mean? It's an uniform goddamit, the war is fought with an army and thus they wear uniforms to participate in that war in the assigned military group. A full armor or a tabard, doesn't matter, it doesn't diminish from where they come from.

In fact, it only pushes the fact that High elves are Alliance. The Void elf of the image is not less from Telogrus rift for wearing the uniform of the 7th legion.

[Ielenia]

That you keep misinterpreting the metaphor is mystifying.

There is no misinterpreting. Because your example simply does not work. What happened over ten years ago, happened over ten years ago. Not now. If I read in a history book that says that, in the seventeen-hundreds, the US was a colony of Britain, it does not mean they are STILL a colony today.

The minimum requirement is that they aren't already playable on the other faction, which the high elven exiles flunked.

An arbitrary "minimum requirement" that void elves have shown does not exist.

No, I said you were being hypocritical because you cited the in game evidence of your own personal experience

It's not about "personal experience", it's about actual in-game evidence of high elves working fine alongside the Alliance and complete lack of evidence of high elves being mistrusted by the Alliance.

No but I don't believe everything is wiped away every five minutes and the world created fresh and anew, free from the consequences of what came previously either.

And yet you're the only one talking about "wiping everything away every fine minutes" while I'm talking about evolution of lore.

Yeah, alternative dimensions and hidden lands aren't going to happen though. That just sounds like really bad fanfiction.

And yet both of those examples did happen. Have you honestly stopped not only playing WoW, but also stopping reading everything about the game's lore by the end of Cataclysm?

Because "hidden lands" happened first in MoP, with the Pandaria continent. And then "alternate dimensions" happened with WoD, with Alternate Draenor.

[Manariel]

I agree with Obelisk Kai when it comes to the portal to old Dalaran - and only that portal, the mage teacher is indeed current. This one can't be truly here, outside of gameplay reasons, because it is simply impossible to see how the city could exist in two places at once.

However, the changes made in legion makes me wonder where the hell were the Sunrevears and Silver Covenant during last expac. I suspect that the Sunrevears were still mostly living in Silvermoon at the time of legion, but what about the Covenant ? Their quarters have been fully populated by worgens and various Alliance races, but they seem to have vanished.

It could just be them not being put there ingame to differentiate the new Dalaran compared to the older one, since they were able to mobilize rather easily in Suramar. But what if it isn't the case and they truly werent there? Where did they move?

[DeicideUH]

I agree with Obelisk Kai when it comes to the portal to old Dalaran - and only that portal, the mage teacher is indeed current. This one can't be truly here, outside of gameplay reasons, because it is simply impossible to see how the city could exist in two places at once.

Since the portal to Broken Isles leads to Azsuna rather than Dalaran, my interpretation is that Dalaran is currently not in the Broken Isles anymore.

It doesn't mean it returned to Northrend. We just have a portal "to Dalaran" that, for gameplay purposes, sends us to Northrend.

However, the changes made in legion makes me wonder where the hell were the Sunrevears and Silver Covenant during last expac. I suspect that the Sunrevears were still mostly living in Silvermoon at the time of legion, but what about the Covenant ? Their quarters have been fully populated by worgens and various Alliance races, but they seem to have vanished.

It could just be them not being put there ingame to differentiate the new Dalaran compared to the older one, since they were able to mobilize rather easily in Suramar. But what if it isn't the case and they truly werent there? Where did they move?

The status of the Silver Covenant is left in the air after Legion. In Legion, the Silver Enclave was even renamed, suggesting the Covenant left. But we saw Vereesa with her children in Dalaran in "3 Sisters", as well as the Silver Covenant mages in the Portal Room, so it's implied the Silver Covenant is still there.

I kinda wish the Silver Covenant would just leave Dalaran for fear of another Horde betrayal. "If the Horde is in, we are out". That could be a good excuse to move the high elf story forward as they seek some new place to settle in.

[Aldo Hawk]

However, the changes made in legion makes me wonder where the hell were the Sunrevears and Silver Covenant during last expac. I suspect that the Sunrevears were still mostly living in Silvermoon at the time of legion, but what about the Covenant ? Their quarters have been fully populated by worgens and various Alliance races, but they seem to have vanished.

It could just be them not being put there ingame to differentiate the new Dalaran compared to the older one, since they were able to mobilize rather easily in Suramar. But what if it isn't the case and they truly werent there? Where did they move?

The status of the Silver Covenant is left in the air after Legion. In Legion, the Silver Enclave was even renamed, suggesting the Covenant left. But we saw Vereesa with her children in Dalaran in "3 Sisters", as well as the Silver Covenant mages in the Portal Room, so it's implied the Silver Covenant is still there.

Look, they are still there, it's just that the game doesn't have enough space for so many NPCs without being clustered, so they replaced some, but you can still find High elves in there:


That's a screenshot I took by sneaking over the Alliance exclusive zone of Legion Dalaran with grappling hook (can't get in because I'm horde). Notice what they did, they replaced most of the class intstructors to leave the place better representing the Alliance, there are one of each Alliance race now, instead of just High elves.

There's nothing telling us that they left, but there are signs that they never did so, but that the game has it's size limits so they had to give some space for other NPCs for the Legion stories, but all these High elves are still there.

I kinda wish the Silver Covenant would just leave Dalaran for fear of another Horde betrayal. "If the Horde is in, we are out". That could be a good excuse to move the high elf story forward as they seek some new place to settle in.

Sounds like a good idea for a recruitment scenario, and mixed with some sort of 'reunification' with the lodges it could be pretty fantastic.

[DeicideUH]

Look, they are still there, it's just that the game doesn't have enough space for so many NPCs without being clustered, so they replaced some, but you can still find High elves in there:

There's one Warrior trainer from the Silver Covenant, and that's it. There are some high elves in the Alliance inn as well, but they are not Silver Covenant.

Legion left it really ambiguous, but Vereesa in "3 Sisters" and the portal mages imply the Silver Covenant remains there.

[Aldo Hawk]

There's one Warrior trainer from the Silver Covenant, and that's it. There are some high elves in the Alliance inn as well, but they are not Silver Covenant.

Legion left it really ambiguous, but Vereesa in "3 Sisters" and the portal mages imply the Silver Covenant remains there.

Yeah, they had to replace the reputations because it concerned another expansion from years ago, but note how the shared reputation (Kirin'tor) was still there but very sided on a lesser importance.

It's something that they haven't managed well, the reputations across expansions, but hey, it's their game and their use-and-throw way of dealing with the content.