Official High Elf Discussion Megathread

[Aldo Hawk]

Another question: why didn't the Blood Elves use their brainwashing techniques to the High Elves? It was so effective in the Bazaar, why didn't they sneak some Priest Police into the Quel'danil and Quel'lithien and make the High Elves there become loyal to Lor'themar again? Why didn't they send them during the Purge of Dalaran?

They did that to evade internal problems with the population, it's not something they would do to exiles who don't even want to return to their homeland if it stays with it's current allegiances.

[matrix123mko]

I feel like most resurrected High Elves will see the disrespect of banding together with Trolls and Orcs, and to add the fact that they probably regret Anasterian's decision to ignore Lordaeron's pleas for help with the Scourge problem

Wouldn't they want to redeem themselves then and join the Forsaken?

[Strippling]

The debate over whether resurrected thalassian elves would incline more towards the Blood Elves or the exiles is one that can only be had in the abstract of course.

Because while there are few things that can be definitively ruled out in a fantasy world where any occurrence can be handwaved away as 'a wizard did it', the idea that they will undo the consequences of death and facilitate a resurrection on that scale is simply not going to happen. Because if the high elves can come back, why not the Night Elves who died in Teldrassil? Why not everyone who died in the fourth war? Why not everyone who died in the third war? Why not the Draenei who perished on Draenor?

Why not bring back everyone who has ever died an unjust death? Why not bring back everyone who dies in future?

This is an absurd notion that is only given oxygen in this debate because it is an answer to a question, 'how do we get playable alliance high elves that are not blue?'.
That resurrecting all the dead ones and hoping they would side with the Alliance rather then their own homeland is an answer, but one that involves ignoring the vast world-reshaping consequences of that choice which I am sure many pro High Elfers would be happy to do so long as they got their high elves who aren't blue.

Somehow I doubt Blizzard's writers are so inept as to completely undermine the consequence of death within their own lore, because the ultimate consequence is undermined if that individual can just pop back through a portal the following day as if nothing had happened. Similarly, it would undermine the importance of those few individuals who ARE granted a resurrection (e.g. Illidan) through immense efforts and for greater purposes.

So, in conclusion, the debate is abstract. Whether the dead elves favour the Alliance or Horde is moot because they won't be coming back to the land of the living to have an impact.

Pretty much this. Just another absurd hypothetical to make pale skin elves available to the alliance.

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All Alliance High elves have, one day, fought for Quel'Thalas. Ofc they'd join the High elves, just like Alleria and Vereesa did.

Remember ?

"ALLERIA WILL BE NEUTRAL BECAUSE OF REASONS"

Nah. As a high/void elf, she naturally joined the Alliance.

And all void elves have fought alonside their fallen kin against the Scourge, and now they're Alliance. Your argument is just so wrong.

Alleria is addicted to human potential, she never was going to be Horde. Vareesa, some would say the head figure of the high elves, was willing to join the Horde during Garrosh's trial. The only thing that stopped her was her children, not the alliance, not dalaran.

There's no doubt whatsoever that any hypothetically resurrected high elves would naturally join their blood elf kin. But as Obelisk Kai put it, this hypothetical is moot because there is no rational story that would have such a thing happen. And the fact that some would even consider it an option to make playable alliance high elves is further evident that some high elfers are purely coveting the aesthetic and have no appreciation for lore. Well in reality most "high elfers" have a limited appreciation for lore as is evidenced by their negligence to the fact the blood elves are our high elves and are the continuation of the high elf arc in the WoW universe.

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I feel like most resurrected High Elves will see the disrespect of banding together with Trolls and Orcs, and to add the fact that they probably regret Anasterian's decision to ignore Lordaeron's pleas for help with the Scourge problem

When they learn of the humans attempting to execute them I highly doubt they'd want anything to do with the Alliance. They'd 100% promptly rejoin their kin in Silvermoon city

[Ielenia]

addicted to human potential

I'll take "ways to make the opposition not take you seriously" for $400.

Vareesa, some would say the head figure of the high elves, was willing to join the Horde during Garrosh's trial. The only thing that stopped her was her children, not the alliance, not dalaran.

And the blood elves were going to join the Alliance right before the Divine Bell incident. The only think that stopped them was circumstances beyond their control. It wasn't love of the Horde, or hate for the Alliance.

[Strippling]

And the blood elves were going to join the Alliance right before the Divine Bell incident. The only think that stopped them was circumstances beyond their control. It wasn't love of the Horde, or hate for the Alliance.

It was precisely hate for the Alliance. Thank Jaina for that.

On the other hand, it wasn't even the Horde that prevented Vareesa from joining Sylvanas, or her "love" for the Alliance.. it was purely her two kids.

Lorthermar at least was trying to put his people's best interest at heart, and at the time Garrosh (leader) of the Horde was driving them away. They soon realised though that Garrosh did not represent the Horde and Lorthermar to this day happily allies with the Horde. Vareesa again on the otherhand showed no care for her "people" or the Alliance, and was willing to ditch them all if it wasn't for her kids.

[Ardenaso]

It was precisely hate for the Alliance. Thank Jaina for that.

On the other hand, it wasn't even the Horde that prevented Vareesa from joining Sylvanas, or her "love" for the Alliance.. it was purely her two kids.

Lorthermar at least was trying to put his people's best interest at heart, and at the time Garrosh (leader) of the Horde was driving them away. They soon realised though that Garrosh did not represent the Horde and Lorthermar to this day happily allies with the Horde. Vareesa again on the otherhand showed no care for her "people" or the Alliance, and was willing to ditch them all if it wasn't for her kids.

I think it was also because she was kicked out; like she was called an "exile" as if it was a racial slur by the Blood Elven Farstriders

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When they learn of the humans attempting to execute them I highly doubt they'd want anything to do with the Alliance. They'd 100% promptly rejoin their kin in Silvermoon city

that was Garithos who is most likely not recognized nor claimed by the rest of the Alliance of Lordaeron; that's like saying the Darkspears would've 100% moved to the Alliance after Garrosh's extreme racism towards them.

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Wouldn't they want to redeem themselves then and join the Forsaken?

first they need to stop being xenophobic to the undead that literally wiped out their population like the humans did, and get over the orcs/trolls/ogres. Maybe not most but maybe half would be Blood Elves and half would be Alliance bootlickers

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They did that to evade internal problems with the population, it's not something they would do to exiles who don't even want to return to their homeland if it stays with it's current allegiances.

That's not it, the priest and the ranger also didn't like the idea of joining Horde but they suddenly said death to Alliance. It's going to be really that effective towards the Alliance bootlickers, I know it. Unless it has a limited time duration

[Ielenia]

Lorthermar at least was trying to put his people's best interest at heart, and at the time Garrosh (leader) of the Horde was driving them away. They soon realised though that Garrosh did not represent the Horde and Lorthermar to this day happily allies with the Horde.

I love the wording, as it heavily implies that this "so-called realization" is what made Lor'themar change his mind and not leave the Horde. And I know this wording isn't incidental, because you did the same just below.

Vareesa again on the otherhand showed no care for her "people" or the Alliance, and was willing to ditch them all if it wasn't for her kids.

Other than supporting them during Wrath. And I love how you completely ignore how Veressa was suffering and feeling alone after the death of her husband, that she was desperate enough to seek a semblance of 'family' with Sylvanas, and yet word your sentence in a specific way to make Vereesa look like she has no allegiances and can switch allies at the drop of a hat.

[Strippling]

that was Garithos who is most likely not recognized nor claimed by the rest of the Alliance of Lordaeron; that's like saying the Darkspears would've 100% moved to the Alliance after Garrosh's extreme racism towards them.

If Garithos is not recognized or claimed by the rest of the Alliance then it's fair to say that the Horde don't recognize nor claim to be the Horde of the 1st and 2nd wars. In which case, any hypotethically resurrected high elves would still likely flock to their blood elf kin who are allied with a new horde who do not claim to be the horde of past.

[Ardenaso]

If Garithos is not recognized or claimed by the rest of the Alliance then it's fair to say that the Horde don't recognize nor claim to be the Horde of the 1st and 2nd wars. In which case, any hypotethically resurrected high elves would still likely flock to their blood elf kin who are allied with a new horde who do not claim to be the horde of past.

I mean, we all know that Thrall's Horde is different from the Old Horde and some noisy minority keeps on pushing otherwise.

Maybe half or 60% would join, given that first they need to realize that the undead are not the Scourge, the orcs are no longer demons, etc. to avoid them suddenly killing their emissaries like the Stormwindians/Stromics/Dwarves did

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Other than supporting them during Wrath. And I love how you completely ignore how Veressa was suffering and feeling alone after the death of her husband, that she was desperate enough to seek a semblance of 'family' with Sylvanas, and yet word your sentence in a specific way to make Vereesa look like she has no allegiances and can switch allies at the drop of a hat.

I doubt the Horde would accept her after she practically cockblocked the Blood Elves into being accepted into the Kirin Tor and she and her High Elves killed more Sunreavers than Jaina did.

[Strippling]

Other than supporting them during Wrath. And I love how you completely ignore how Veressa was suffering and feeling alone after the death of her husband, that she was desperate enough to seek a semblance of 'family' with Sylvanas, and yet word your sentence in a specific way to make Vereesa look like she has no allegiances and can switch allies at the drop of a hat.

Why would she feel so alone if the Alliance is supposedly so dear to her? Alas, she did not view the Alliance as dear enough to feel like home or family.. hence why she sought a semblance of family with her dead Horde sister. She musn't have had that strong of a connection with the Alliance if she was prepared to live with the undead in an undead city who are allied to the Horde, rather than stay. Like I said, were it not for her children then the most prominent alliance high elf figure would have 'yeeted' out of the Alliance and joined the Horde.

ANd regarding Lorthermar, he realized that Garrosh did not represent the Horde.. else he would have removed the blood elves from the Horde AND rejected the Alliance once more. Alas, he only did the latter, indicating that his realization of the Horde is what kept the blood elves there. And in all this, Vareesa never had any realization about the Alliance that kept her from joining the Horde... no, it was purely her two kids.

[Ielenia]

Why would she feel so alone if the Alliance is supposedly so dear to her?

Ok, dude, no need to make your hatred of high elves anti-high-elf bias show so strongly, there.

If you're not going to take the conversation seriously, I'm ending things right here.

[Strippling]

Ok, dude, no need to make your hatred of high elves anti-high-elf bias show so strongly, there.

If you're not going to take the conversation seriously, I'm ending things right here.

Purely just highlighting one of many important factors as to why high elves aren't and shouldn't be playable on the Alliance. This is a megathread about high elves after all.

[FlubberPuddy]

Just come up with new lore for Void Elves being able to be Paladins.

Introduce Wrathion's model for Humans (rightfully so a step in the right direction Blizzard).

Or allow lore to progress that Void Elves and High Elves intermingle and within that one slot one can be a High Elf Paladin through the extra customization and lore given to Void Elves.

Same as is being done with Wildhammer Dwarves. Bronzebeard got the class first (Shaman). Then came the looks (Wildhammer). Doesn't take up a slot so no having to say 'It WaStEs A pOtEnTiAl Nu RaEcE lIk MeChAgNoMeS!!11!1ElEvEn!'

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All methods that I would approve of.

[Ardenaso]

Vareesa never had any realization about the Alliance that kept her from joining the Horde... no, it was purely her two kids.

she also seems to hate the Horde as she tried to murder Rommath and was only stopped by a human

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Just come up with new lore for Void Elves being able to be Paladins.

Introduce Wrathion's model for Humans (rightfully so a step in the right direction Blizzard).

Or allow lore to progress that Void Elves and High Elves intermingle and within that one slot one can be a High Elf Paladin through the extra customization and lore given to Void Elves.

Same as is being done with Wildhammer Dwarves. Bronzebeard got the class first (Shaman). Then came the looks (Wildhammer). Doesn't take up a slot so no having to say 'It WaStEs A pOtEnTiAl Nu RaEcE lIk MeChAgNoMeS!!11!1ElEvEn!'

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All methods that I would approve of.

And Druids too, the High Elves had druids in WC2. Void Druids would be sick af.

I'm thinking the closest Alliance Thalassians would be a conglomeration with the High Elves led by Vereesa Windrunner, Void Elves led by Umbric, Highborne led by Mordent Evershade - all led by Alleria Windrunner. Then their capital would be Eldre'thalas with a nearby Spire for the Void Rift.

Light skin customization, Paladin and Druid class, with those we may no longer need a High Elf Allied Race and use the slot instead for Lightbound Orc

[Strippling]

she also seems to hate the Horde as she tried to murder Rommath and was only stopped by a human

In the three sisters comic she talks about her desire to reunify with the blood elves. Can't hate them that much if she wishes to be reunified with them

[Ardenaso]

In the three sisters comic she talks about her desire to reunify with the blood elves. Can't hate them that much if she wishes to be reunified with them

cool, looks like they're really erasing the Silver Covenant given that the Alliance Enclave in Dalaran is now run by Gilneans

[FlubberPuddy]

In the three sisters comic she talks about her desire to reunify with the blood elves. Can't hate them that much if she wishes to be reunified with them

She wants the Blood Elves to be reunified with the Alliance. She believes they'll come to their senses.

Simple clarification.

[Strippling]

She wants the Blood Elves to be reunified with the Alliance. She believes they'll come to their senses.

Simple clarification.

Subsequently meaning she wants the blood elves to reunify with the high elves. So, she can't hate them that much if she wants a reunification.

If you read our conversation a little further you'd understand the context of the statement. Simple reading.

[Aldo Hawk]

Subsequently meaning she wants the blood elves to reunify with the high elves. So, she can't hate them that much if she wants a reunification.

If you read our conversation a little further you'd understand the context of the statement. Simple reading.

'Simple reading' but you imply in that 'simple reading' that High elves would also want to reunify with the Blood elves as if it also meant joining the Horde.

Being on a contrary position doesn't have to go hand in hand with lack of judgement and honesty.

High elves want to bring Quel'thalas to the Alliance. And, also to clarify, because I have seen lots and lots of misinformation and dishonesty regarding this: High elves helped the Blood elves to defend from the Amani, for a very simple, logical, and easy to understand reason, if Quel'thalas falls, there's no Quel'thalas to bring to the Alliance. That's logic 101.

[Obelisk Kai]

Just come up with new lore for Void Elves being able to be Paladins.

Introduce Wrathion's model for Humans (rightfully so a step in the right direction Blizzard).

Or allow lore to progress that Void Elves and High Elves intermingle and within that one slot one can be a High Elf Paladin through the extra customization and lore given to Void Elves.

Same as is being done with Wildhammer Dwarves. Bronzebeard got the class first (Shaman). Then came the looks (Wildhammer). Doesn't take up a slot so no having to say 'It WaStEs A pOtEnTiAl Nu RaEcE lIk MeChAgNoMeS!!11!1ElEvEn!'

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All methods that I would approve of.

Wrathion's model is a modified thalassian elf model I believe. As with Nozdormu's 'elf form', which has human range skin tones but a night elf base, this can likely be chalked up as another example of a lot more leeway being granted in devising models for unique and important lore characters rather than an potential extra customisation option for humans. As Nozdormu and several other lore characters have proven, just because they have done something for a major lore character does not guarantee it is going to happen in future (in fact, far from it).

As for Void Elf Paladins, Void Elves are defined by their connection to the void, Paladins by their devotion to the light. Alleria, the first Void Elf, cannot touch a light devotee such as Turalyon (and that was before Turalyon became lightforged) and so a Void Elf Paladin is a contradiction. But of course, that's just laying out the groundwork as to why a Void Elf Paladin isn't going to happen, the corollary is your suggestion that selecting Paladin under Void Elf actually makes you a High Elf.

Which is why it is almost certainly never going to happen. A Void Elf is a transformed thalassian elf, the entire rationale behind their transformation was to create thematic and aesthetic distance between them and the Blood Elves. As the Blood Elves have become increasingly focused on the light, basing the counterpart faction around light's opposition, void, makes perfect sense. Allowing Void Elves to have the option to be a Paladin ruins that thematic division, and attempting to argue that the Void Elf Paladin would actually be a High Elf (and represented as such) crosses previously expressed red lines regarding sharing an identical aesthetic (not to mention theme) that is currently unique to the Horde with the Alliance.

A Void Elf Paladin is probably the single least likely race-class combination suggestion that isn't in the game that will be considered. You could even make a better case for an Undead Paladin.