Official High Elf Discussion Megathread

[Ielenia]

No, that is your opinion.

How do I know it's not an opinion, but a fact? Three reasons:
• High elves are a separate faction from the high elves.
• High elves are Alliance-aligned.
• There is no 'High Elf' option in the blue banner in the character creation screen.

Fact: blood elves are our high elves.

Fact: opinions aren't fact.

Especially since it's a fact that "blood elves" and "high elves" are separate groups within the game and lore.

[Strippling]

Psst.

https://www.mmo-champion.com/threads...ace-suggestion

I'm thinking this one can help overturn the "blur faction lines". Not that I want High Elves

Cool thread, and I appreciate the time and effort you seem to have put into it. Unfortunately though it falls under the same dilemma as high elves... giving those respective races to Alliance and Horde would blur an integral part of the game.

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They said the bold at Blizzcon. Then in an interview afterwards (maybe a month after or so) they said it seems like a cool idea they've internally tested but nothing to announce atm for it now. They also do agree that the "breaking the cycle" moment was a big moment that hasn't been paid off.

Can you link this interview please? Not saying I don't believe you, I just haven't seen said interview and would be interested in watching.

From what I've seen, Blizzard seem to have only reemphasized their view on maintaining factions as of recent.

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How do I know it's not an opinion, but a fact? Three reasons:
• High elves are a separate faction from the high elves.
• High elves are Alliance-aligned.
• There is no 'High Elf' option in the blue banner in the character creation screen.

The original fact I stated was "the high elf race is playable". You believing that blood elves are not high elven is an opinion (one that is wrong mind you).

Secondly, you believing that high elves aren't playable because there isn't a 'high elf' option in the blue banner is also an opinion. It's your opinion that the high elf race is defined by the term "high elf". FACT is, the high elf race in the WoW universe, is defined by blizzard (the game creators) as the blood elves. The blood elves are the very continuation of the high elves from the warcraft RTS's. The blood elves are the next chapter of the high elves in the WoW universe. That is a fact. The descriptions in game for blood elves and their heritage armor quest line clearly indicates that they are what became of the high elves. We then have lead WoW developers affirming this notion. Anything about alliance aligned high elves we see in WoW only indicates that they're a dying group assimilating into human culture. They have no real coordinated aim or direction, and there isn't an example of who or what it means to be an "alliance aligned high elf". We also have lead WoW developers affirming this notion.

FACT: blood elves are our high elves. A fact backed in game and by WoW developers.
OPINION: no they're not cause the handful of dissipating alliance high elves call themselves high elves, so they must be the high elf race. Blood elves are a different race. An opinion backed by Ielenia (a random player with a high elf agenda).

Fact: opinions aren't fact

Agreed. Your opinions aren't fact.

Especially since it's a fact that "blood elves" and "high elves" are separate groups within the game and lore.

This was never about them being separate groups. It was about the fact that the high elf race is available to the Horde.

[FlubberPuddy]

Can you link this interview please? Not saying I don't believe you, I just haven't seen said interview and would be interested in watching.

From what I've seen, Blizzard seem to have only reemphasized their view on maintaining factions as of recent.

No worries, I can. I made a thread about it.

https://www.mmo-champion.com/threads...Patrick-Dawson

[Aldo Hawk]

The original fact I stated was "the high elf race is playable". You believing that blood elves are not high elven is an opinion (one that is wrong mind you).

Secondly, you believing that high elves aren't playable because there isn't a 'high elf' option in the blue banner is also an opinion. It's your opinion that the high elf race is defined by the term "high elf". FACT is, the high elf race in the WoW universe, is defined by blizzard (the game creators) as the blood elves. The blood elves are the very continuation of the high elves from the warcraft RTS's. The blood elves are the next chapter of the high elves in the WoW universe. That is a fact. The descriptions in game for blood elves and their heritage armor quest line clearly indicates that they are what became of the high elves. We then have lead WoW developers affirming this notion. Anything about alliance aligned high elves we see in WoW only indicates that they're a dying group assimilating into human culture. They have no real coordinated aim or direction, and there isn't an example of who or what it means to be an "alliance aligned high elf". We also have lead WoW developers affirming this notion.

FACT: blood elves are our high elves. A fact backed in game and by WoW developers.
OPINION: no they're not cause the handful of dissipating alliance high elves call themselves high elves, so they must be the high elf race. Blood elves are a different race. An opinion backed by Ielenia (a random player with a high elf agenda).



Agreed. Your opinions aren't fact.



This was never about them being separate groups. It was about the fact that the high elf race is available to the Horde.

Your post don't stand by itself, and you have been explained these things a million times, and still fail to recognize and understand.

I'm not repeating myself (and also hope others don't), your post can be invalidated by literally scrolling up the thread.

That should tell something to those that are understandable.

[Strippling]

Your post don't stand by itself, and you have been explained these things a million times, and still fail to recognize and understand.

I'm not repeating myself (and also hope others don't), your post can be invalidated by literally scrolling up the thread.

That should tell something to those that are understandable.

When you have no reasonable response to the facts I post you tend to resort to "your post is invalid". It's not a good look for your case.

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No worries, I can. I made a thread about it.

https://www.mmo-champion.com/threads...Patrick-Dawson

Thanks!
/10 char

[Aldo Hawk]

When you have no reasonable response to the facts I post you tend to resort to "your post is invalid". It's not a good look for your case.

That's exactly what you have done right now.

If you want for me to repeat and repeat and repeat without ever acknowledging and learning, I'm sorry, then you don't deserve a composed response.

Edit: In fact, in actuality, my dude, this is the part you ignore just to say I don't have a 'reasonable response'. I told to scroll up, and what happens when you scroll up? You find a response from me that could have been repeated and still invalidate your point: https://www.mmo-champion.com/threads...1#post52165801

Do I need to repeat it on another different post if the effect is the same?

Stop treating others like human records.

[Obelisk Kai]

Yes. Lol. And that's all it has to be. Just like with any race or class or feature or content request any other player has for the game. It doesn't need to go higher than "I want it" and you're mistaken if you think the only things going to be added into the game are things to fix some gap of lackness.

Nightborne are the prime example of this. Why did they go to Horde? Because Blizzard came out and said they had to make a choice at the end of the day, despite knowing both sides wanted Nightborne, and knowing whichever side didn't get them would be upset.

Wanting something is fine. Insisting upon the purity of the demand and ignoring all the problems others, including the developers, raise with the request is something else. It's entitlement. You are the one who said a high elf paladin should just exist on the Alliance side, despite the extremely weak case for it and the consequences of adding it with the bastardization of the concept of the Void Elves being the most prominent consequence of some of your suggestions, perhaps we should give the Forsaken paladins too except they'd be alive humans?

This implies established lore isn't trash already, despite a bunch of players being upset about the lore and recent retcons and recent lore we've been given. Besides, when Blizzard adds anything new into the game they overwrite "established lore" regardless, which - again, people in the playerbase have not all been happy with all of it.

You're trying to imply people are okay with all the lore they've been writing here, which it isn't hard to see is true in the slightest by looking at what's been said in the community.

And lore does not get in the way of new additions to the game, I believe that's been shown well enough with the recent happenings of what's led to Shadowlands and Sylvanas's involvement with the jailor. The truth is this: Blizzard don't behold themselves to lore, they only use it as justification when it suits their needs at the time and those needs change as time goes on thus they won't hesitate to, using your words, "trash established lore" to suit their needs.

Except the distinction I am drawing is that when Blizzard does it, the usually have a clear goal in mind for moving the entire game forward and some of those retcons have turned out to be highly beneficial, i.e the Draenei. When the pro High Elf community suggests doing the same thing, it is always with the goal of getting playable high elves within the Alliance OR in shifting Void Elves into being as close to high elves as possible (attempting to get void elves who can pretend not to be void elves). The goal itself requires such a massive upheaval of everything that has been established merely to facilitate a tiny minority of players who refuse to reconcile themselves to the reality of the game world as it is. Forget about not getting a bang for your buck, you wouldn't even get a bang for your cent.

Rest of what you wrote shows you're ok with an Alliance Elf Paladin so I won't comment on that.

Disingenuous misrepresentation of what I said then. I said I had no issue with a Night Elf Paladin because that has precedent in lore and the Night Elves are a core Alliance race. I have severe issues with suggestions for Void Elves to get Paladins because a void elf paladin is a contradiction.

At the end of the day, people are simply trying to get more for the faction they play on working with what's on their faction already. High Elves exist on Alliance side, and people would like to play them, that's all that matters in the context of this thread.

No player needs to care more than that. Just like no one needs to explain themselves for why they want anything added into the game. No point to keep arguing over it.

As an Alliance player I want an Elf Paladin option available. Whether it comes through Night Elves or Void Elves or 'New Elves' doesn't matter. They should just look good. In the meantime I'd even settle for getting Kyrian on Alliance with Paladin as a new race option. Not into Dwarves/Draenei, nor the Horde.

No, that isn't all there is to it. Those in favour of alliance high elves have always been extremely dismissive of the importance of faction diversity and the importance many players place on preserving two distinct factions so long as Blizzard believes the two factions are a pillar of the design of the world of warcraft.
Similarly, they are dismissive and unaccepting of the truth that a few high elves in the Alliance is an irrelevance to a greater truth, that Blood Elves are High Elves and that High Elves, including the Elven Paladin fantasy, ARE available in game. At the moment, that fantasy is unique to the Horde faction which isn't a flaw either, factions can be characterised by what they lack as well as by what they have. After all, the Horde does not have an Elven Druid fantasy whereas the Alliance does, and I am not going to argue that the desire for Blood Elf or Nightborne Druids equates a want to a necessity.

The Alliance has plentiful Paladin options. Humans, two kinds of Dwarves and two kinds of Draenei. That is five choices to the Horde's three. As you have ruled out most of the options, your choice is to remain playing a Human Paladin as I suspect you already are and hope that one day Blizzard adds Night Elf Paladins, who are miles away the most likely choice for that class to be added.

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No worries, I can. I made a thread about it.

https://www.mmo-champion.com/threads...Patrick-Dawson

That they've experimented with it internally chimes with Moorgard's comment that there is no technical barrier to easing faction restrictions, nor does it surprise me that they have given the idea some consideration because a two faction system is not a cost free solution, but neither is a game where factions don't exist. You weigh the pros and the cons. But they were repeatedly asked this question at Blizzcon and the seniormost developers consistently shot it down emphasising that the two faction system is a critical part of the DNA of the game and the franchise.

In fact, the critical comments from this interview are ' In the future, you never know what is going to happen, where the story is going to take us, and what makes sense for the game' and 'We don’t have anything to announce today but it’s a cool idea.' These echo 'anything can happen in future' which as we know is Ion's favourite phrase for subtly communicating they aren't doing this now, in the near future, or under any currently conceivable circumstance and which Ion mentioned both in regards to high elves on the Alliance and Preach asking about the return of master loot.

[Whiteboard]

Since Blizz has already made cheeky comments about "if you want high elves, the horde's blood elves are there for you", there's simply no way Alliance is getting high elves.

Unless sub numbers continue to tank, and they need something exceptionally shiny to try to get back subscribers with. Which isn't impossible, given the constant downward trend.

[Aldo Hawk]

Disingenuous misrepresentation of what I said then. I said I had no issue with a Night Elf Paladin because that has precedent in lore and the Night Elves are a core Alliance race. I have severe issues with suggestions for Void Elves to get Paladins because a void elf paladin is a contradiction.

Not turning the way you thought it would doesn't make it a disingenuous representation.

You are literally saying Night elf paladins are good because there has been one. It's literally your words, and the funniest thing is that it directly clashes with your non-ending crusade against High elves, since, you know, they have been in the Alliance all this time, there's more than precedent for that.

[Ielenia]

The original fact I stated was "the high elf race is playable".

You misspelled "opinion" there in the bolded part. Because, and you can deny it as much as you want, but what I said are facts:
• High elves are a separate faction from the high elves.
• High elves are Alliance-aligned.
• There is no 'High Elf' option in the blue banner in the character creation screen.

With these three items in mind, one without bias can see that there is no "high elf" option for the playable races. Blood elves are blood elves, are referred to as blood elves, and will always be blood elves, on top of being in the "wrong" faction, i.e., the Horde. Meanwhile high elves are high elves, referred to as high elves, will always be high elves, and also are in the "correct" faction, i.e., the Alliance.

[FlubberPuddy]

Wanting something is fine. Insisting upon the purity of the demand and ignoring all the problems...

People made a request. It's the anti-folks who come in trying to tear it down when that's wholly unnecessary. You guys don't work for Blizzard, you are not privy to their discussions and what not. But come in acting as 'maintain the status quo' as if it's what Blizzard wants. There is only "insisting" because people are "defending their request" from status quo bigots.

It's why I don't care for back and forth and post that back and forths (aka arguing for or against) doesn't matter. If you feel it does feel free to do so amongst others.

Disingenuous misrepresentation of what I said then. I said I had no issue with a Night Elf Paladin because that has precedent in lore and the Night Elves are a core Alliance race. I have severe issues with suggestions for Void Elves to get Paladins because a void elf paladin is a contradiction.

Night Elf Paladin = Alliance elf Paladin. Any new kind of elf that can be a Paladin on the Alliance would = Alliance Elf Paladin. I'm sorry you have a fragile ego about it as seen by the entirety of this post.

The Alliance has plentiful Paladin options. Humans, two kinds of Dwarves and two kinds of Draenei. That is five choices to the Horde's three. As you have ruled out most of the options, your choice is to remain playing a Human Paladin as I suspect you already are and hope that one day Blizzard adds Night Elf Paladins, who are miles away the most likely choice for that class to be added.

This isn't the real and practical way of thinking. If I already don't like Dwarf or Draenei, what does another Dwarf or Draenei do? Effectively nothing for someone like me. This goes for anyone that wants more options because they dislike the current ones. I'll give you an example.

Allied Races when they couldn't be Death Knights. What occurred? Fans who play Death Knights going 'yah these races are new, but none of them can be DK - what do Blizzard?' And at first Blizzard said they have no plans to make em DKs. Guess what, later on they decided to give all Allied Races and Pandaren Death Knights (makes DKs the next class among Warriors and Hunters to be available to every race).

So saying "you have options use them" is to blindly ignore that people have preferences and those preferences have weight (it also ignores that people dislike things too hence a change is needed to make that option more attractive).

I have no doubt you already know this, but you only returned to this High Elf thread to start cyclical arguments which is hilarious in its own right so I have no doubt you'll just want to continue that.

You have a strangely obsessive compulsion of making sure High Elf or Void Elf Paladins on Alliance never happen. Which is extremely strange in and of itself.

Dawson interview snippet

I mean it doesn't matter that you personally don't believe they'll ever do it or whatever it is you're trying to say here to appear most correct. In that thread alone there's around 15 or more so people that see his words as more welcoming of the idea and different from what was said at Blizzcon. And those less than fingers on a human hand commenting on it never happening.

So your opinion is yours that you think nothing will come of it. That's fine, the nice thing is your sole opinion doesn't matter when there's enough evidence more people took Dawson's answer as different from what was said at Blizzcon.

[Varx]

Just because something exists doesnt mean it needs to be playable. Yeah the alliance has high elves, doesn't mean they should be playable. Especially when they're identical to belves minus their hard on for blue over red.

Also alliance has a goblin in SI:7. Does that mean alliance needs goblins too. And the fact there's only 1 confirmed is not a rebuttal as their could easily be more like minded recruited.

[Aldo Hawk]

Just because something exists doesnt mean it needs to be playable. Yeah the alliance has high elves, doesn't mean they should be playable. Especially when they're identical to belves minus their hard on for blue over red.

Tell that to Dark Iron Dwarves dude.

Also alliance has a goblin in SI:7. Does that mean alliance needs goblins too. And the fact there's only 1 confirmed is not a rebuttal as their could easily be more like minded recruited.

Find a Cartel that prefers the Alliance and start your campaign. Let's see how comparable this is.

[Varx]

Tell that to Dark Iron Dwarves dude.


Find a Cartel that prefers the Alliance and start your campaign. Let's see how comparable this is.

Dark irons are very distinct to regurlar dwarves. I mean charcoal skin and glowing red eyes. The closest bronzebeard got to that was like a very light grey and at least blizz ret conned them to have fiery hair too. High elves dont have that as they're biologically the same.


Who cares that there isnt a cartel thats pro alliance. The fact is SI:7 has a goblin in it. Who's to say there's more, thus a faction of alliance gobbies.

I havent seen any alliance orcs, tauren, trolls, forsaken (calia and dereck are horde), but wait there is a goblin just like thalasian elves. So why not?

Because playable goblins are horde strictly, just like "pure" thalasian elves, emphasise on pure before u start using velves as an excuse.

[Orby]

Tell that to Dark Iron Dwarves dude.

Yet we don't have Wildhammer Dwarfs.

Closest you High Elf fans can come to would be a reskin cosmetic update in the same way Dwarfs are getting a Wildhammer like appearance in shadowlands, by giving the Void Elves a High Elf appearance (which would be just taking away the blue and purple skin colours and adding a more blue eyed Blood Elf appearance)

And I know 'Void Elves are not High Elves', but Wildhammer Dwarfs are not Ironforge Dwarfs either, we take what we can get :P

[Varx]

Dark irons are very distinct to regurlar dwarves. I mean charcoal skin and glowing red eyes. The closest bronzebeard got to that was like a very light grey and at least blizz ret conned them to have fiery hair too. High elves dont have that as they're biologically the same.


Who cares that there isnt a cartel thats pro alliance. The fact is SI:7 has a goblin in it. Who's to say there's more, thus a faction of alliance gobbies.

I havent seen any alliance orcs, tauren, trolls, forsaken (calia and dereck are horde), but wait there is a goblin just like thalasian elves. So why not?

Because playable goblins are horde strictly, just like "pure" thalasian elves, emphasise on pure before u start using velves as an excuse.

To add to that how about the horde aligned kt human pirates or the alliance aligned shadowmoom orcs.

Just because a friendly faction compromised of races primarily found on the enemy faction exists doesn't entitle you to playable versions.

The horde will never get kt humans and the alliance will nevwr get maghar orcs, goblins, or High elves.

[ravenmoon]

Wanting something is fine. Insisting upon the purity of the demand and ignoring all the problems others, including the developers, raise with the request is something else. It's entitlement. You are the one who said a high elf paladin should just exist on the Alliance side, despite the extremely weak case for it and the consequences of adding it with the bastardization of the concept of the Void Elves being the most prominent consequence of some of your suggestions, perhaps we should give the Forsaken paladins too except they'd be alive humans?

Well, that's your opnion, but I agree with this guy on that point. A void elf having a normal appearance as a paladin or a group of high elves coming to draw interest in the void from a light study perspective and as paladins, could be as uitable class customisation for void elves.

It isn't a bastardization at all. The Ilidari are exactly that, a group of mainly night elf fel users who are playable in that cusotmisation on the demon hunter clas (could be extended to warlock too) and like the undead customisation only available on the DK class option. So the high elf customisation could something available on the void elf paladin section and like Illidari is separate night elf based group, so too could a group of high elves potentially be involved with the void elves as paladins.

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Except the distinction I am drawing is that when Blizzard does it, the usually have a clear goal in mind for moving the entire game forward and some of those retcons have turned out to be highly beneficial, i.e the Draenei. When the pro High Elf community suggests doing the same thing, it is always with the goal of getting playable high elves within the Alliance OR in shifting Void Elves into being as close to high elves as possible (attempting to get void elves who can pretend not to be void elves). The goal itself requires such a massive upheaval of everything that has been established merely to facilitate a tiny minority of players who refuse to reconcile themselves to the reality of the game world as it is. Forget about not getting a bang for your buck, you wouldn't even get a bang for your cent.


.

What's wrong with arranging thing sto give playesr what they want? I think one of the main reasons of doing things in thes e games is to give players things they can enjoy and desire.


That is one of the primary goals, and I don't see anything wrong with that, because it makes high elves playable on the alliance. Blizz did the same thing to make Nightborne playable on the horde, when they are the night elf sub-race, and they didn't need to cross another alliance based group over.

It had nothing to do with taking the game in a clear direction, or good for the lore.. the horde didn't need another arcane wielding elven group because the blood elves filled that very well, making the Nightborne superfluous. The Kaldorei were desperately need of an arcane group based on their pre-sundering lore, because it is something missing from the Darnassians in visible and prominent way. This is what the Nightborne would have given them, offering their racial arcana and because of their prominence, actually feel like the night elves get a different dimension.

While the Darnssians have the highborne, they have not been made anywhere enear as prominent as we saw the Nightborne, they don't even have customisation options available to reflect their great beauty and glamour in the night elf model (the night elf models fit either druid (with the bushier hair and amish beards, or female warrior sentinel with the 4 apck abs on the female models and the their crooked eyebrow as if they've tumbled out of a thicket or just come out of a fight. - They even got an illidari customisation when the DH came, but not highborne.

So the purpose of the Nightborne going horde was giving fans what they want, and it went against the grain of the lore. Weheras high elves on the alliance is already in the lore, ad playable from a lore perspective is a natural progression.

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People made a request. It's the anti-folks who come in trying to tear it down when that's wholly unnecessary. You guys don't work for Blizzard, you are not privy to their discussions and what not. But come in acting as 'maintain the status quo' as if it's what Blizzard wants. There is only "insisting" because people are "defending their request" from status quo bigots.
.

But the anti folks also are entitled to their opinions and they sometimes make valuable points.

The developers must try to understand what is behind the way they strongly ffeel, and perhaps through that can come up with an amazing solution. It may not please everyone, but it may go a long way.

example, why do some fans so jealously want to protect blood elves being unique on the horde? They're not even a traditional horde race. Yet they will come up with every argument conceivable to make it seem wrong. But truth is, its completely irrelevant. You could argue that blizz has already given races to factions that were far less relevant to them. And just as how they moved faction once, they can again - nothing is iron clad impossibl e or illogical to any of this group shifting.

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Disingenuous misrepresentation of what I said then. I said I had no issue with a Night Elf Paladin because that has precedent in lore and the Night Elves are a core Alliance race. I have severe issues with suggestions for Void Elves to get Paladins because a void elf paladin is a contradiction.

They can make void elf paladins a thing if they wanted to. Being a contradiction is not a real obstacle, you just write an exception and a good explanation if you want to do it, just like happened when they wanted blood elves to join the horde to plug the numbers deficit. All the contradictions wre removed with a sotry that wallowed it to happen.

I can see several ways voi d elves can be written to be paladins in a plausible way.

1. They actually use the void instead o f the light and are called void knights, and like blood knights and TIdesages, the class graphics and namesjust aren't changed


2. A bunch of high elves wanting to work with the void elves and use light and void together or just wanwt to help make sure t heir brethren don't lip into the madness, joi up, and these are paladins and priests too - allowing void elf priests and paladin class options to have a high elf cusotmisation.

3. You can write that htehigh elves and the void elves now work and live together, thalassians with a natural disposition to the light don't turn void in Telogrus rift, and though part of the void elves, still refer to themselves as hg elves.

I could make up anything. And so can the devs..

[FlubberPuddy]

But the anti folks also are entitled to their opinions and they sometimes make valuable points.

The developers must try to understand what is behind the way they strongly ffeel, and perhaps through that can come up with an amazing solution. It may not please everyone, but it may go a long way.

example, why do some fans so jealously want to protect blood elves being unique on the horde? They're not even a traditional horde race. Yet they will come up with every argument conceivable to make it seem wrong. But truth is, its completely irrelevant. You could argue that blizz has already given races to factions that were far less relevant to them. And just as how they moved faction once, they can again - nothing is iron clad impossibl e or illogical to any of this group shifting.

Of course everyone is entitled to their opinions. Anti arguments contain a lot of hypocrisy based on how all other races are handled.

If Blood Elves are being touted by Blizzard as needing to stay as the unique fair skin elves then why are there 3 different types of Blue/Purple Elves in varying shades? This kills the "their aesthetically fair skin must stay unique" argument.

Another argument is that Blood Elves should get blue eyes/Alleria like customization with feathers in hair etc because despite having their Magisters and then Blood Knights being at the forefront of their cultural icons, they are supposedly supposed to be privy to every aspect of their culture when no other existing race follows this demand. In your example, Night Elves did not get to keep their Highborne aspect to their faction (as we see Nightborne on Horde). Also, different Tauren/Dwarves/Orcs/Trolls/Humans/Draenei all have different aspects of their culture within another race option.

It is not all included within a singular race, like Trolls for example - they do not contain every single different troll tribe we know hence Zandalari being their own option. Yet Blood Elven fans are trying to say every aspect of high elf culture should be exclusive and available to the Blood Elf race. Another argument that is hypocrisy as every cultural aspect of the aforementioned races are not contained exclusively in their core race option.

[Ielenia]

But the anti folks also are entitled to their opinions and they sometimes make valuable points.

Yes, they are. Everyone is entitled to their own opinion, but that is not the problem here.

The problem comes with those who are against the implementation of high elves as a playable race come here only to repeat their exact talking points, over and over, from time to time, despite their opinions having been acknowledged and discussed already the first few times they did so, and yet they act as if their opinions were never challenged in the first place, and acting as if they're the gatekeepers of what can and cannot be added to the game.

[Obelisk Kai]

People made a request. It's the anti-folks who come in trying to tear it down when that's wholly unnecessary. You guys don't work for Blizzard, you are not privy to their discussions and what not. But come in acting as 'maintain the status quo' as if it's what Blizzard wants. There is only "insisting" because people are "defending their request" from status quo bigots.

It's a lousy defense to say those challenging the people making the request 'aren't privy to their discussions' or 'don't work for Blizzard'. We don't need to, all we need to do is actually look at what they are telling us on this subject. We know what Blizzard wants, not because they secretly briefed us, but because they flat out told us. Any 'tearing-down' as you put it is simply a restatement of the inconvenient facts that prevented this request from succeeding as well as continually reminding you that a proposition the pro High Elfers routinely and erroneously like to portray as 'cost-free, sure you wouldn't even be playing a high elf' does in fact come with a real cost to faction identity and faction diversity, which many people prize enormously as a concept.

Night Elf Paladin = Alliance elf Paladin. Any new kind of elf that can be a Paladin on the Alliance would = Alliance Elf Paladin. I'm sorry you have a fragile ego about it as seen by the entirety of this post.

Except that's not the idea I was challenging. Whether the Alliance gets Night Elf Paladins or not is an irrelevance. What isn't was your proposal for Void Elf Paladins, a proposal that is oxymoronic given the way the lore is presented because a Void Elf Paladin is a contradiction.

Also saying I have a fragile ego about something is a nonsensical statement, I could say I have a strong Id about it and that would be equally nonsensical. I feel your were casting about in an attempt to make some kind of disparaging statement and ended up with a kind of meaningless word salad. But I will assist, it would have been better to say I was 'insecure' about the concept but that again doesn't make sense because I don't have strong feelings regarding whether Night Elves get Paladins or not,

This isn't the real and practical way of thinking. If I already don't like Dwarf or Draenei, what does another Dwarf or Draenei do? Effectively nothing for someone like me. This goes for anyone that wants more options because they dislike the current ones. I'll give you an example.

Allied Races when they couldn't be Death Knights. What occurred? Fans who play Death Knights going 'yah these races are new, but none of them can be DK - what do Blizzard?' And at first Blizzard said they have no plans to make em DKs. Guess what, later on they decided to give all Allied Races and Pandaren Death Knights (makes DKs the next class among Warriors and Hunters to be available to every race).

So saying "you have options use them" is to blindly ignore that people have preferences and those preferences have weight (it also ignores that people dislike things too hence a change is needed to make that option more attractive).

Except your preferences here grind against fundamental story and gameplay pillars. What was harmed by the addition of extra options for Death Knights? Nothing at all.

Void Elf Paladins contradict the lore. High Elf Paladins exist, but were ruled out on the grounds that they are essentially already playable as Blood Elves and their addition undermines the faction divide. Your specific request is one that isn't so easily granted as Death Knights for all.

I have no doubt you already know this, but you only returned to this High Elf thread to start cyclical arguments which is hilarious in its own right so I have no doubt you'll just want to continue that.

You have a strangely obsessive compulsion of making sure High Elf or Void Elf Paladins on Alliance never happen. Which is extremely strange in and of itself.

I am not preventing high elf paladins, Blizzard did that when they ensured the remaining exiles were regarded as nearly extinct in lore with the pro High Elf people arguing for years now that numbers don't matter, or that there are actually more high elves than Blizzard says there are or the more recent Blizzard can magic some high elves into existence from an alternate timeline or by raising the dead.

Nor am I preventing Void Elf Paladins, Blizzard did that when they explicitly laid out the fundamental incompatibility of the void and the light to the point that the meeting as primordial cosmic forces generated the warcraft equivalent of the big bang.

High Elves won't happen because they already happened on the Horde side. And Void Elves, which did happen, won't be Paladins because the lore is adamant that it cannot happen.

I mean it doesn't matter that you personally don't believe they'll ever do it or whatever it is you're trying to say here to appear most correct. In that thread alone there's around 15 or more so people that see his words as more welcoming of the idea and different from what was said at Blizzcon. And those less than fingers on a human hand commenting on it never happening.

So your opinion is yours that you think nothing will come of it. That's fine, the nice thing is your sole opinion doesn't matter when there's enough evidence more people took Dawson's answer as different from what was said at Blizzcon.

That's the problem it seems historically with your responses. You never look at the totality of what was said or the circumstances in which something was said. You go for the exception, the one that seemingly might go against the grain and you put the most positive spin on it possible to make it appear that there is hope after all, just as you did with the guy who accosted Ion at Blizzcon 2019 and talked to him about High Elves. You heralded that as something akin to light in the tunnel as well, but a more nuanced reading was that Ion just restated 'anything can happen in future' without the snark and with the intention of not putting a downer on a fan's day.

Same thing here, that interview is pretty much a non answer that indicates nothing strongly beyond there are cool aspects to cross faction play. Of course there, faction based gameplay is not an ideal state, but neither is abolishing the factions. You pick one and accept the costs that come with that choice. Dawson also talked about how important it was for people to go out and 'smash' the other side and that was something that chimes with the vast majority of the statements made by Blizzard developers at Blizzcon. And the statements made by the developers, including the most senior developers, were repeated several times across the convention and were very strongly made that they regard the faction divide as important.

There is a measure of hypocrisy here in that in a forbes interview nearly a year ago Ion defended the faction split and said cross-faction pve wasn't happening and he was very clear about it and you pretty much instantly disregarded it. You are very selective in your choices of what matters it seems.