Official High Elf Discussion Megathread

[Syegfryed]

Void elves are also a group, not a completely separate race, and they are playable. And this fact refutes your statement.

they are indeed a different, at least a subrace thats why they are an "allied race", they are changed by the void, they are no longer HE, they are a completely separated group with totally different thematic and visual all together, thats why they can go to the other faction, and thats why it don't refute my statement at all.

In that case, why can't a group of high elves loyal to the Alliance be playable?

Because Their race is already playable, they are entirely identical psychically and thematically to the horde ones

[Aldefard Aelfwine]

Because Their race is already playable, they are entirely identical psychically and thematically to the horde ones

But pandarens, unlike blood elves and high elves, have no external differences at all. And they... playable. How do you explain this?

[Obelisk Kai]

But pandarens, unlike blood elves and high elves, have no external differences at all. And they... playable. How do you explain this?

Easy, it was an experiment they decided to try to see if it worked. Here's the rub though, they are pretty clear that it didn't work. Oh sure, Pandaren themselves are a fine race, but the cost to faction diversity by making them neutral was simply too great. And Pandaren had everything going for them, a race both sides wanted but neither had meaning they would join both sides at the same time, a story emphasising balance and their neutrality. Still wasn't worth it. They've not a done neutral race since. They likely never will again as the real benefits of making a neutral race, only a single pair of levelling zones and just two models to make rather than four zones and four models, is obviated by Allied races allowing model reuse and skipping the first levelling zones entirely.

Pandaren neutrality is not a precedent. It was a mistake. And the thing about mistakes is that once you make it, you can avoid making that same mistake a second time.

[Ielenia]

no one forget that, i even said on my comment, but this is not an "official group name" is just the race name they keep using to refer to themselves

But it is their "official name".

The are individuals of the high elf race within the alliance, a group, not a race, who are not playable

All "playable races" are "a group, not a race", hence why that denomination is meaningless. "Human" is not a race, but a group of the human race. "Troll" is not a race, but a group of the troll race.

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During https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=i2_MydRdrIw you can see the Alliance leadership assembled and they are all there, Anduin (Humans), Mekktorque and Erazmin (Gnomes of both kinds), Turalyon and Alleria (Lightforged Draenei and Void Elves), Tyrande (Night Elves), the council of the three hammers (all Dwarf kind), Genn (for Gilneas), Jaina (for Kul Tiras) and Velen (for the Draenei). Even Aysa is there for the Alliance Pandaren. No Veressa though. No high elven exiles at all. There are more BLOOD ELVES in that ending cinematic than there are representatives of what you continue to insist (despite being repeatedly told that they aren't by the developers) are an important alliance race.

Funny. I don't see the Jinyu or Ankoan there. Perhaps the only ones present in that cinematic are only the representatives of the currently playable races?

[Syegfryed]

But it is their "official name".

its the name of their race, yes, but "official name of the group"? hardly, since they are not a official faction, neither a conjunct group with a common goal or leader, the ones in dalaran are silver covenant by example

All "playable races" are "a group, not a race"

all playable races are a race, you pick a race and play with it, of course the race have to come from somewhere, but this don't mean they are not a race

hence why that denomination is meaningless. "Human" is not a race, but a group of the human race. "Troll" is not a race, but a group of the troll race.

Meaningless to who? who said that? your race is human, you play one, troll is a race you play one, they all come from somewhere.

Thats why you don't see nothing about "lordearon humans allied race" " Stromgarde Humans allied race" or "dalaran humans allied race" and obviously they will not happen, since they are the same and humans are already playable.

the other human and the other troll playable now are subraces, they are different(thematically and physically), the high elves in the alliance are not a subrace they are the same

Funny. I don't see the Jinyu or Ankoan there. Perhaps the only ones present in that cinematic are only the representatives of the currently playable races?

or perhaps the only ones present are only the core races representatives?

Jinyu and ankoan fall to the same boat of firbolg and HE, minor races not core ones.

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But pandarens, unlike blood elves and high elves, have no external differences at all. And they... playable. How do you explain this?

Taking you just have 6 posts and a December account im gonna bet you are very familiarized with the subject and know very well how to explain this

[elbleuet]

IG Blood elves : we no longer are high elves
IG High elves : we aren't blood elves

IRL anti helf on MMO-CHAMPION: BUT BLOOD ELVES ARE HIGH ELVES PLS

That's hilarious

[Syegfryed]

IG Blood elves : we no longer are high elves
IG High elves : we aren't blood elves

IRL anti helf on MMO-CHAMPION: BUT BLOOD ELVES ARE HIGH ELVES PLS

That's hilarious

its not like we have meta knowledge that fictional characters don't posses , its a debate they are not awere off

Its not like someone change race just by changing name, their nomenclature is not a issue in the subject just in the fictional world

[Aldo Hawk]

People often ignore or forget that High elf is a race and "Blood elf" is just a name of the group of high elves, they think or believe they changed race, and the "high elf" epithet belongs and is only applied to the elves who didn't change name and are aliance aligned.. Hence for then, only the alliance aligned are high elves, who is disingenuous and wrong

That's a cute strawman you did there.

However, you seem to confuse when someone refers to race as a gameplay term and race as different races.

No dude, no one actually believes in their internal being that High elves are a completely different epistemologically-wise race from Blood elves.

But on gameplay terms (thing that you seem very confused with) they would be, since they would be another race choice, do you understand that?

[Syegfryed]

That's a cute strawman you did there.

However, you seem to confuse when someone refers to race as a gameplay term and race as different races.

i don't, they are the same race, proved many times already, even the other pro-elves recognize that and try to work around it

No dude, no one actually believes in their internal being that High elves are a completely different epistemologically-wise race from Blood elves.

But on gameplay terms (thing that you seem very confused with) they would be, since they would be another race choice, do you understand that?

in gameplay terms they are the same race still, don't know where you are getting they aren't

and if i remember right, you said you would stop quoting and answering me, what happened with that?

[Aldo Hawk]

The game defines blood elves as high elves. We also have the lead developers of WoW defining blood elves as THE high elves of the WoW universe. Just because blood elves changed their name does not mean they no longer are OUR high elves.

You have actively ignored why this doesn't make sense.

Well, for anyone else who is willing to open their minds, I'm gonna give a direct reasoning for why this doesn't make sense:

'Blood elves are our High elves' was a phrase uttered by Chris Metzen at an interview made soon after the announcing of The Burning Crusade. This phrase was directed at the new gameplay addition in the form of a new race for players to choose, and it was said in reference to OTHER FANTASY UNIVERSES, SINCE 'HIGH ELF' IS A COMMON RACE IN MANY FANTASY UNIVERSES (Fucking obviously).

So, why is the way Strippling and others put it, wrong? Because Blood elves, and High elves, aren't the same people as in-lore, and the context of the phrasing was around a time where no single High Elf-like option existed for players to choose from while a new one have been recently announced.

That phrase was never said in reference to the High elves that still call themselves High elves in the Warcraft lore, but in reference to the High elves that call themselves Blood elves in the warcraft universe as a brand new playable option.

Guess what: High elves are also their High elves. Since High elves are, DUH, HIGH ELVES.

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i don't, they are the same race, proved many times already, even the other pro-elves recognize that and try to work around it
Please read again.

in gameplay terms they are the same race still, don't know where you are getting they aren't

Have you READ what I WROTE?

But on gameplay terms (thing that you seem very confused with) they would be, since they would be another race choice, do you understand that?

It's literally more than 2/3 of the phrase, it's pretty obvious you are ignoring reality and not using judgement to say things.

and if i remember right, you said you would stop quoting and answering me, what happened with that?

Do you mind that much? I can't fathom see you utter such nonsense.

[Ielenia]

its the name of their race, yes, but "official name of the group"? hardly, since they are not a official faction, neither a conjunct group with a common goal or leader, the ones in dalaran are silver covenant by example

But they are high elves. They identify as such, and don't identify as blood elves.

Argue as much as you'd like, but it's an inescapable fact: high elves and blood elves are separate groups. Which is why saying "high elves are playable" is wrong.

Meaningless to who? who said that? your race is human, you play one, troll is a race you play one, they all come from somewhere.

I also play as a human when I log into my Kul'Tiran druid. I also play as a human when I log into my worgen warlock.

[Aldefard Aelfwine]

Taking you just have 6 posts and a December account im gonna bet you are very familiarized with the subject and know very well how to explain this

So you're trying to avoid the question, right? Why are identical pandrens in two factions the norm, but practically the same elves are not? Does this contradict lore? No. So why?

[Syegfryed]

But they are high elves. They identify as such, and don't identify as blood elves.

Yes, its their race, they don't need to identify with the other group

Argue as much as you'd like, but it's an inescapable fact: high elves and blood elves are separate groups.

i never said they are the same group, i said they are the same race

Which is why saying "high elves are playable" is wrong.

If blood elves are high elves, and blood elves are playable, high elves are playable. The high elf Race is playable, the alliance group of high elves is not, indeed.

I also play as a human when I log into my Kul'Tiran druid. I also play as a human when I log into my worgen warlock

you play a kul'tiran human, a subrace of humans, you play as a cursed werewolf , who can turn into human. Both totally different thematic and physically

It's literally more than 2/3 of the phrase, it's pretty obvious you are ignoring reality and not using judgement to say things..

"They would be" =/= They are

You are implying something as true with your own accord, based on something who might happens if everything goes with your way, hum.

[Aldo Hawk]

You are implying something as true with your own accord, based on something who might happens if everything goes with your way, hum.

You were accusing others of playing with semantics mere hours ago, my dude.

Caption this: New playable option, High elves, then what would that be? Another race choice as per gameplay terms are concerned.

It's straightforward logic, you don't even have to think, come on.

[elbleuet]

its not like we have meta knowledge that fictional characters don't posses , its a debate they are not awere off

Its not like someone change race just by changing name, their nomenclature is not a issue in the subject just in the fictional world

So being contradicted IG doesn't bother you ?

Blood elves themselves, IG, don't consider themselves as High elves and Rommath himself during the purge of Dalaran, doesn't refer the Silver Covenant elves as Alliance high elves but as high elves.

[Syegfryed]

So being contradicted IG doesn't bother you ?

Blood elves themselves, IG, don't consider themselves as High elves and Rommath himself during the purge of Dalaran, doesn't refer the Silver Covenant elves as Alliance high elves but as high elves.

there is no contradiction since what the fictional individuals consider themselves doesn't matter in this meta discussion

Caption this: New playable option, High elves, then what would that be? Another race choice as per gameplay terms are concerned.

It's straightforward logic, you don't even have to think, come on.

your logic of they being different races in gameplay is a wishful thinking and projection future of they being playable first, so they will be considered different race in gameplay after that? with that reach i think you can touch Netuno

Like dude,
>"they are different in gameplay"
why?
>"because when they become playable they will be another raceunder another race choice"

thats like counting with the chicken eggs inside the duck

[matrix123mko]

• "High elf" characters do not like to be called "blood elf", and vice-versa.

I am not sure about this one. They are quite proud of Quel'thalas, lament of Quel'dorei and so on. Blood elves are fine with being high elves.

[Aldo Hawk]

there is no contradiction since what the fictional individuals consider themselves doesn't matter in this meta discussion

It does

Different people in different factions in a two-faction game, how in actual actuality does that not matter?

your logic of they being different races in gameplay is a wishful thinking and projection future of they being playable first, so they will be considered different race in gameplay after that? with that reach i think you can touch Netuno

Ok, aside from the useless and nonsensical attacks you made in the bolded part, how the hell is what I said wrong?

What is a playable option? A race.

Are Kul'tirans a different race from Humans? Nope. Are they a different race from Worgen? Lore also says no.

What are they? Different 'race' options.

I'm sorry the game has this kind of nomenclature that confuses you this much, but that doesn't mean we have to accept your personal view of it just because you can't understand it.

thats like counting with the chicken eggs inside the duck

Wat.

[Syegfryed]

It does

Different people in different factions in a two-faction game, how in actual actuality does that not matter?

Again, the fictional characters don't have meta knowledge, they don't know what we do, and we know what the lore and devs tell us

Ok, aside from the useless and nonsensical attacks

always baiting

Are Kul'tirans a different race from Humans? Nope.

Yes, they are, they are a different subrace

Are they a different race from Worgen? Lore also says no.

yes? worgens are werewolves

I'm sorry the game has this kind of nomenclature that confuses you this much, but that doesn't mean we have to accept your personal view of it just because you can't understand it.

your point still is projecting and wishful thinking, you think they are a different race in gameplay because when they become playable they will be treated that way, except, they will not become playable thus, they will not be a "different race in gameplay" you talk about.

you are counting with something who is not even a thing

and again you can just do what you said you were going to do and stop quoting me

[Aldo Hawk]

Again, the fictional characters don't have meta knowledge, they don't know what we do, and we know what the lore and devs tell us

I see this is your new phrase to throw when you don't want to reason about the matter. It's not that deep bro.

You have evaded the question, Syegfry, how two different people in different factions in a two-faction game doesn't matter?

always baiting

What?

Yes, they are, they are a different subrace

...thats why people keep playing with semantics to validate...

Who is playing with semantics here, Syegfry?

yes? worgens are werewolves

It's druidic magic, Syegfry, they can control the transformation and their children are born as humans.

your point still is projecting and wishful thinking, you think they are a different race in gameplay because when they become playable they will be treated that way, except, they will not become playable thus, they will not be a "different race in gameplay" you talk about.

What is more wishful thinking than saying that because something you don't like is not in some way now it will never be because it's not that way now?

Please, read twice what you wrote, it makes no sense. A playable option is a 'race option' as per gameplay terminology is concerned, Syegfry, and that will ever forever be true no matter if something is actual or if it's hypothetical.

The fact that you deny things so in your face just to be contrarian while telling others that they are having fails in their judgement because they have an 'evil agenda' actually seems like projecting, my fine dude.

you are counting with something who is not even a thing

Are playable options being called 'race' not a thing? Why do you make such a problem over such tiny thing?

and again you can just do what you said you were going to do and stop quoting me

I had my reasons to put you on the ignore list, and these reasons have been corroborated again by your recent revisiting of the thread, but I will give it some time since I'm enjoying this easy exchange, it's in my hand after all, but if you say the magical word, I might heed your wishes and stop bothering you with these kind of messages that do nothing but expose your flaws in logic.