Official High Elf Discussion Megathread

[DemonHunter18]

it's actually very sad.

High Elves were demanded since forever but people got Void Elves instead.

[Obelisk Kai]

The whole point is he said the exact same things about Dwarves/Trolls customization as I said. He also said what the High Elf fanbase have been saying forever, when people talk about "wanting to play a High Elf" they are asking for a very specific group of elves.

That he has enough of a mind to understand this and not garble the ignorant "you just wanna play Blood Elves" is a win in my book since he represents a higher authority within the general WoW community and has influence over a larger portion of the playerbase.

Win imo to High Elf fans.

Taliesin and Evitel are a higher authority within the general WoW community and therefore their opinion counts as a win? Don't get me wrong I find them hugely entertaining but they are often wrong and some of their speculation is clearly just for the fun of it rather than a serious prediction. And they are not an authority. The use of the term 'authority' was done by yourself to inflate this 'win' you think you've gotten.

The last 'massive win' you had on that score was his April 2018 video which ended up backing high elves as an Allied race which as I recall was posted everywhere by pro high elfers. Funny thing is your 'higher authority' was undermined at the end of the month by an actual authority. If this is your latest huge win, then based on precedent we will have alpha imminently and blue eyes for Blood Elves confirmed within hours of the first datamined build.

You do just want to play Blood Elves. A Blood Elf is indistinguishable from a High Elf except for their political opinion which is expressed as faction preference. If that were not the case, the Alliance loyal thalassian elves the Alliance did end up getting, the Void Elves, would have been enough (and as one of the most popular allied races clearly were enough for tens of thousands of players).

LMAO, so because I bring up an obvious point: Playing a Void Elf is very different from playing a Blood Elf compared to playing the Dwarves/Orcs, then all discussion doesn't matter?

What does that even have to do with showing you Ion's stated goal on what increased customizations are and how they're about looking different from others playing the exact same race? A rhetorical question, it's nothing.

I'll take this as another win too, as you appear to not be able to handle arguing against what the stated design goals of the increased customization are and latching onto points I've never stated.

I think it's hilarious that you think you've revealed some truth or something. What I said about Dwarves and Orcs holds true vs Void Elves/Blood Elves(and the other 2 elves). You don't gain a sense of what all elves are about just by playing 1 vs you get the sense of what all Dwarves/Orcs are about regardless of which one you choose.

Another win for me, thank you for conceding!

There is no win for you. There is never a win for you. There is probably never going to be a win for you. A win for you is an Alliance high elf allied or core race with a distinct introduction, racials and a recognised place within the Alliance. We are currently arguing over the dregs of this discussion, whether Blizzard will add pretend high elf options to void elves so that your void elf can look like an ersatz high elf. Frankly if you want to make this about winning or losing then my side of the argument won the moment they introduced Void Elves and we're wrangling over whether there should be a consolation prize.

You rejected the logical outcome of what you were arguing, that if the aesthetic differentiation between a Core race and it's associated allied race was removed for one pairing, then why not for all other pairings because you cited the one difference between the other pairings and the Blood/Void Elf (and Night Elf/Nightborne) scenarios, namely that these pairs are separated by the faction wall.

What is amazing about your logic is that you are actually arguing that because the Orc pair, the Draenei pair and Dwarf pair are on the same faction then they wouldn't need to get the aesthetic of their counterpart because that option is already available but that the faction barrier, by it's existence, facilitates the Void Elves getting access to the Blood Elf skin tone range because otherwise Alliance players couldn't access it.

The same faction wall that precluded Blizzard from giving high elves to the Alliance in the first place because it would blur the lines between the factions. The same faction wall Blizzard cited as hugely important as recently as last Blizzcon when they again and again reaffirmed the importance of keeping both sides separate.

The same faction wall that actually led to you getting Void Elves in other words is somehow, through a complete inversion of their stated reasoning on this matter so far, going to be a positive factor in Void Elves getting high elf skins when their customization pass comes. And you came to this conclusion because Dwarves are getting Wildhammer skins and Trolls are getting Farakki skins?

That's just nonsense.

Exactly. Yet he often types in a way which he thinks he is.

But as T&E video points out. It's much more likely the general player mindset is the same. Most of the playerbase understands what High Elf fans want when they ask for High Elves, a specific group of elves that are part of the boys in blue faction.

He also points out what most people know too: putting blue eyes on Blood Elves is ofc the easiest way for Blizzard to say "there's your high elf option" but it actually does nothing for the fans who have been asking for playable High Elves as they're asking for that very specific group of elves.

It's good to see that sentiment because T&E's content is generally dedicated to the more larger/wider casual playerbase audience.

Please spare me the strawman attack of 'he thinks he's a developer, he's so arrogant, he can't see the truth'. That implies the pro High Elf community has a respect for what the actual developers say. Every developer statement on this topic, including the flat out 'no' you got, was immediately pilloried (Ion was termed an idiot multiple times) or heavily reinterpreted to be even slightly more favourable.

Everyone knows what you want. High Elves in the Alliance. The problem is you are so fixated on what you want that you refuse to engage with the truth; we don't need blue eyes on Blood Elves to have the high elf option. Blood Elves already are the high elf option in game and high elves are the exact same race as the Blood Elves.

The Alliance was given a variant of a Horde race, a 95% match. Most Alliance players seem to be happy with what they have. But a hardcore minority does need to be appeased when their version of compromise is a 100% win.

And on the last point of T&E's video, the one reaching out a casual playerbase, the sole mention they have of high elves is that they hope they don't add them because the obvious way to add them is to give Blood Elves blue eyes and that it would upset the pro high elf people, admitting in a few sentences that 1.) The 'casual' playerbase sees high elves as blue eyed blood elves 2.) The only tangible physical difference between the exiles and the Blood Elves would be eliminated by the addition of an eye shade and 3.) the reason they gave for not adding them was to not upset people who want to play high elves rather than a real objection as to why it would damage the game.

Not the best 'win'.

[FlubberPuddy]

You do just want to play Blood Elves.

Comments like these are exactly why that video is a win. As they succinctly describe what it is the High Elf fans want. And that's good because as a higher authority in the community (and yes they do have higher authority than you or me or any rando player, accept that reality) it's something the WoW designers can take further stock of on the topic.

That you continue to ignorantly put words into other's mouth is what's not a win. There's already an available option to play a Blood Elf in the game, if what you're saying is what really is the case then "High Elf fans wanting to play High Elves" wouldn't even be a thing. It wouldn't be a "long-known requested option" as put in the T&E video. We have Blood Elves for how many years now? How can something stay as a long-requested if purportedly "people just wanna play Blood Elves"?

People would simply play Blood Elves and that'd be it. Just like people want player housing still despite Ion stating Garrisons "are our version of player housing". Continuing to stay ignorant about it and say "no you don't actually want what you're saying, you actually want this instead" just makes you look foolish instead.

You rejected the logical outcome of what you were arguing, that if the aesthetic differentiation between a Core race and it's associated allied race was removed for one pairing, then why not for all other pairings because you cited the one difference between the other pairings and the Blood/Void Elf (and Night Elf/Nightborne) scenarios, namely that these pairs are separated by the faction wall.

This doesn't even make sense to me and doesn't sound like what I was arguing at all. Nice strawman.

What is amazing about your logic is that you are actually arguing that because the Orc pair, the Draenei pair and Dwarf pair are on the same faction then they wouldn't need to get the aesthetic of their counterpart because that option is already available but that the faction barrier, by it's existence, facilitates the Void Elves getting access to the Blood Elf skin tone range because otherwise Alliance players couldn't access it.

Yes, and I don't see how this doesn't make sense. It would be like if one of the customization options added in the future puts a Goblin onto the Alliance with customization options not available with Horde Goblins.

Now a Goblin player cannot simply play Horde Goblins to have access to all their looks, they must upend their guilds/groups etc if they wanted to access options for Goblins exclusive to Alliance side.

How does that not make sense? Why wouldn't the Horde player request access to similar options so they can stay on the faction they have pride in if faction has such importance?

Orc, Tauren, Troll, Draenei, Dwarf, Gnome players all do not have to leave their faction to get access to all race customizations for their given faction. There is no need at all for Green Orcs to get Mag'har customization because both options are available already to Horde. There is no need for Dark Iron options on Dwarves because both options are available already for Alliance.

The Elves are an exception. And it should be obvious by now that Night Elf players have been wishing for more Highborne customizations (customizations that basically the Nightborne have). Why are they asking for it? Because those customization options are not available to Night Elves on Alliance side.

Are you still having trouble understanding this? You seem to be struggling with it. This is why your "do you expect Mag'har to get Green Orc customization" does not make sense. It is already there, on the same side. Is that how it is for Void Elves/Blood Elves?

Blood Elf players are wanting beard options available to Void Elf players since those were revealed, are you going around adamantly telling them to go play a Void Elf to have beards on Blood Elves? Should Blood Elf players not ask for more beard options for males because that's already a thing on Void Elves? That's how stupid your argument sounds because that would be the logical conclusion for it.

I think it's hilarious how you try to put great importance on "factions matter" then at the same time try to minimize it "oh just go play on the other side".

The same faction wall that actually led to you getting Void Elves in other words is somehow, through a complete inversion of their stated reasoning on this matter so far, going to be a positive factor in Void Elves getting high elf skins when their customization pass comes. And you came to this conclusion because Dwarves are getting Wildhammer skins and Trolls are getting Farakki skins?

That's just nonsense.

You must be nonsensical then because you've repeatedly stated that you agree it's possible for Void Elves to get "high elf like" options. How does Darkspear Trolls getting skins of different troll tribes not support that? A jungle troll would be very different from a sand troll, just as Kul'Tirans were made "seafaring specialty humans" and thus have racials tied to it. Only here with increased customizations Blizzard are just throwing out racials mattering since sand trolls will be an increased customization over being an Allied Race (despite the potential to be one in the same vein as a Kul'Tiran/HMT/LFD).

That implies the pro High Elf community has a respect for what the actual developers say.

They do, hence why the arguments and reasonings have taken the developer comments into account. I mean really you have admitted to watching both videos from T&E that contain High Elf bits where these arguments and reasonings take into account developer comments in a very succinct manner. I am not sure what else you are looking for.

Are you just looking for people to accept it is whatever Blizzard says without challenging it? Cuz that seems to be the case. Except it's not the first and won't be last time players challenge what Blizzard says, account-wide essences is another example, the pruned class abilities, making alts more accessible, the gcd changes, etc etc.

There are many things that players challenge of what Blizzard says. But you seem to just be trying to side-wind your way around saying, "accept what they said and stfu and be grateful for it" as this appears to be what you're getting at.

Everyone knows what you want. High Elves in the Alliance. The problem is you are so fixated on what you want that you refuse to engage with the truth; we don't need blue eyes on Blood Elves to have the high elf option. Blood Elves already are the high elf option in game and high elves are the exact same race as the Blood Elves.

This entire segment disregards that character customization isn't a need, but a want. One could argue we don't need increased customizations on existing races (what you are arguing essentially) and that focus should go to adding new races currently not available. Increased customizations throw out the "we don't need" bit. It's what people want. It's what people have wanted for a long time, and now they're finally getting it.

High Elves are another thing people have wanted for a long time, still remains to be seen if they get.

And on the last point of T&E's video, the one reaching out a casual playerbase, the sole mention they have of high elves is that they hope they don't add them because the obvious way to add them is to give Blood Elves blue eyes and that it would upset the pro high elf people, admitting in a few sentences that 1.) The 'casual' playerbase sees high elves as blue eyed blood elves 2.) The only tangible physical difference between the exiles and the Blood Elves would be eliminated by the addition of an eye shade and 3.) the reason they gave for not adding them was to not upset people who want to play high elves rather than a real objection as to why it would damage the game.

Not the best 'win'.

He states "it would be the simplest thing for Blizzard to do" which is true and is what everyone accepts: putting Blue eyes on Blood Elves then going around to herald 'see high elves now'. It would be no different than if Blizzard decided to put brown skins on green orcs and say 'there now you have mag'har' or put spotty green skins with an upright option onto darkspear and say 'there's your zandalari'. I'm highly confident the fans of Mag'har or Zandalari would be upset if that was a case for them as well.

It in no way means "the casual playerbase accepts these as mag'har and zandalari". It just means Blizzard took the laziest route they could and did not care for what those fans wanted.

Same as we're seeing them give us 100% right now for kicks, do you think they're doing this just because "it helps to bring the game to a better state and not damage it"? No, it's because it provides an incentive to help with social isolation. Has nothing to do with being better or worse for the game.

Just like if they do add blue eyes to Blood Elves and then say "this is your high elves that's it". Except they've stated High Elves are a possibility on Alliance so I don't believe it matters whether blue eyes come to Blood Elves. It only changes if as I said, they then proclaim "we decided this is how we're going to handle high elves."

[Aldo Hawk]

it's actually very sad.

High Elves were demanded since forever but people got Void Elves instead.

It's as if devs are out of touch or something, isn't it?

- - - Updated - - -

There is no win for you. There is never a win for you. There is probably never going to be a win for you. A win for you is an Alliance high elf allied or core race with a distinct introduction, racials and a recognised place within the Alliance.

I'm sorry to say but this sounds too petty, even for previous standards.

You don't get to say what others consider a win, my fine dude, because in actual actuality, you are just another random, don't forget that, stop behaving like some sort of authority.

[Katchii]

Yeah, this is true.


No, not once the phrase 'Blood elves are our High elves' appear on that link.

Never said it did, was just pointing out where the argument was coming from. How The WoW Blood Elves were somewhat designed to fit the classic fantasy role of the "High Elf."

Not getting into the whole Blood Elf vs High Elf playable race thing. There's enough lore to support them being added, and that's about where I stand on it...whether they get added or not, I don't care.

[Aldo Hawk]

Never said it did, was just pointing out where the argument was coming from. How The WoW Blood Elves were somewhat designed to fit the classic fantasy role of the "High Elf."

Fair enough.

Not getting into the whole Blood Elf vs High Elf playable race thing. There's enough lore to support them being added, and that's about where I stand on it...whether they get added or not, I don't care.

Me neither somewhat, I tried to level an alliance character the past 4 months and I didn't went over level 70 something if I remember well, because I can't even remember, and it was a death knight.

I only want this because it's part of the classical lore of Warcraft, and players can't access that part of the Alliance.

[Arenchac of Suramar]

You know, you people are really kind of zealous and hostile over getting to be a fictional race in your video game, and, worse, not wanting people to get to be their fictional race in a video game.

We're in an era of severe moral decay and social upheaval, with numerous topics for realistic conversation. Perhaps you could find something more productive to argue about?

[Aldo Hawk]

You know, you people are really kind of zealous and hostile over getting to be a fictional race in your video game, and, worse, not wanting people to get to be their fictional race in a video game.

You aren't actually adressing any problem, just saying that we are all hostile for no real reason whatsoever over the topic. There's a reason why the discussion can't exist in a normal, healthy way, since the existence of it is more than enough for those in favor to try to be heard again and again over time, while the other side's intention is to derail and destroy all topics on all forums to cause the other side to not have a public voice, that's why this discussion has gotten so disgusting and toxic.

We're in an era of severe moral decay and social upheaval, with numerous topics for realistic conversation. Perhaps you could find something more productive to argue about?

What makes you think this topic is the only thing that, for example I, talk about?

I can't be bothered with the sickness of the west all day, but sadly, it's everywhere, everyday.

[Varx]

This is the week people. The week the high elf agenda dies with the reveal of blue eyes for belves once alpha datamining begins. Rejoice!

[Manariel]

This is the week people. The week the high elf agenda dies with the reveal of blue eyes for belves once alpha datamining begins. Rejoice!

You're dreaming right ?

Even if Blizzard is dumb enough to give Blood Elves blue eyes, it wouldn't kill the High Elves allied race potentiality.

[FlubberPuddy]

Even if Blizzard is dumb enough to give Blood Elves blue eyes, it wouldn't kill the High Elves allied race potentiality.

Also that after the new eye changes High Elves carry eyes closer to that of regular humans. So they can get the various colors open to humans, unlike Blood Elves whose eyeballs are dictated by magical energies.

[Varx]

You're dreaming right ?

Even if Blizzard is dumb enough to give Blood Elves blue eyes, it wouldn't kill the High Elves allied race potentiality.

How is it dumb? The sunwell is holy and arcane. Green, gold, and blue eyes are all lore friendly at this point.

Thus helves would have nothing left to differentiate themselves from belves. As if eye color was enough.

Then all you'd have left is faction differences which would be the same as copy pasting humans to the horde and call them defias humans and pretend that they're actually a "new" race.

"Oh but they have different lore, culture, and allegiances so they should have different racials and hair, blah blah blah". Lol give me a break.

[FlubberPuddy]

Lol give me a break.

You should give yourself a break. Nobody forces you to come back and parrot same exact thing you've already said 100+ pages ago.

But you probably can't help yourself.

[Arenchac of Suramar]

You aren't actually adressing any problem, just saying that we are all hostile for no real reason whatsoever over the topic. There's a reason why the discussion can't exist in a normal, healthy way, since the existence of it is more than enough for those in favor to try to be heard again and again over time, while the other side's intention is to derail and destroy all topics on all forums to cause the other side to not have a public voice, that's why this discussion has gotten so disgusting and toxic.


What makes you think this topic is the only thing that, for example I, talk about?

I can't be bothered with the sickness of the west all day, but sadly, it's everywhere, everyday.

Honestly, I am kind of sorry for that earlier post. I was somewhat in a bad mood and obsessive-compulsive tendencies can be a bitch, so I've basically been super-neurotic and stressed over the last few days. I'm honestly just more confused as to why this is such an area of aggression for the fanbase and why this gets so toxic so often.

The thing is I don't think this should have sides in either way that are so intent to see or not see this happen. The addition of High Elves would please some people, but I can also very easily understand hoping they conserve their resources for other Allied Races and the like over adding something that we kind of have portrayed as is.

Admittedly, it's very funny to me how those who are so heavily anti-High Elf would spend their time on this, but I also find it just as strange that you guys are so highly intent on seeing this added, too. I think we all just need to seriously calm down a lot of the hectic and obsessive behavior of a very simple and ultimately pointless thing.

I can see there are actually a lot of very interesting ideas for how High Elves could be implemented without becoming redundant here, so it is kind of a fun idea. They're not really my cup of tea, but the aesthetics proposed are very interesting and I could see how High Elves could contribute to the lore in the days to come.

On the other hand, it's just kind of stupid that people are so zealous about this. It's not even a real race, but one that's purely theoretical. I don't see why anyone would be this obsessive about seeing it added nor seeing it not added.

I'm going to maintain that the anti-High Elf side is definitely far more toxic, overall, however. It seems like this thread was initially a fun little design and development thread that was taken far too seriously.

[Monster Hunter]

Given that High Elf customization is asked for unanimously even amongst Void Elf fans and given the precedent with variance coming with increased customizations (aka Trolls no longer have to stay blue, dwarves no longer have to stay fair-skinned/charcoal, undead no longer have to be pale, etc) I don't really see how a form of High Elf customization doesn't come to Void Elves other than if Blizzard absolutely does not allow increased customizations on Allied Races.

Which I highly doubt since they were already asked about it multiple times after the reveal of increased customizations ("Will these increased customizations come to Allied Races?") and they've said for the moment it's just going to be the core races.

And btw, just because a race was intentionally made with a certain aesthetic does not mean it can't be changed. Orcs have had bent backs for incredibly long time despite players continually asking for them to have straight backs. The common argument back then used to be "the silhouette is part of the race, if you wanna play straight backs then go play humans".

Look at how dead in the dirt that is now, as it was always presumed to be by many in the playerbase - not just those who eagerly wanted straight-back orcs customization.

I don't think allied races are getting added customization in shadowlands, I think that was mentioned in one of the panals that this was an expansion of core races customization. I'll try to dig up the link tmoz when I get up. But I'm pretty sure I recall them saying words to the effect. As I was bummed my zandalari wasn't getting anymore bling.

youtube.com/watch?v=fMpe_i5SdBo&t=5m55s

Found it at 5:55 in the vid.

The dk allied races though "might" get some dk specific customization but that is based on interpretation of the 8.3 allied race dk advert.

[Varx]

You should give yourself a break. Nobody forces you to come back and parrot same exact thing you've already said 100+ pages ago.

But you probably can't help yourself.

Just like everyone else both pro and against helves in this thread. This is a comedy show. Cant wait to see what other excuses are made to try and justify helves in the alliance one belves get blue eyes during SL.

At that point might as well demand helves to be the alliance equal to tushui pandas and give the horde a new paladin race to compensate. Only way it'll work.

[FlubberPuddy]

I don't think allied races are getting added customization in shadowlands, I think that was mentioned in one of the panals that this was an expansion of core races customization. I'll try to dig up the link tmoz when I get up. But I'm pretty sure I recall them saying words to the effect. As I was bummed my zandalari wasn't getting anymore bling.

Oh they definitely are not getting added customization in Shadowlands. I never meant to appear as if I was arguing that. I just argue that it's pretty much a forgone conclusion it will happen, as every playable race is someone's favorite and WoW team aren't gonna treat the Allied Races as "second class citizens" by not giving them a pass of increased customizations down the line.

- - - Updated - - -

Just like everyone else both pro and against helves in this thread. This is a comedy show. Cant wait to see what other excuses are made to try and justify helves in the alliance one belves get blue eyes during SL.

It would actually be more helpful for this to happen (belves getting blue eyes). Because then when High Elf fans continue asking then the ignorant comment of "you just want to play a blue eyed blood elf" has no leg to stand on anymore. As if High Elf fans actually wanted to do that then flocks in droves would go play Blood Elves and the request for High Elves to be playable on Alliance should cease.

But I doubt it will be the case.

Kind of like how Void Elves, who are blue eyed blood elves, did not stop the request. Kind of like people still kept asking for Wildhammer, until they're now coming through increased customizations feature.

[Manariel]

Just like everyone else both pro and against helves in this thread. This is a comedy show. Cant wait to see what other excuses are made to try and justify helves in the alliance one belves get blue eyes during SL.

At that point might as well demand helves to be the alliance equal to tushui pandas and give the horde a new paladin race to compensate. Only way it'll work.

Simple. High Elves have been Alliance longer than Blood Elves Horde, since Vanilla in fact. Alliance players interact more with them than with Gnomes. They are also the only allied race which makes sense Alliance-wise, instead of the usual ass-pulls of Blizzard (Draeneï, Worgen, Void Elves, Lightforged, Kul Tirans and Trash Gnomes are all, to an extent ranging from "absolute bullshitting" to "relatively harmful" on the asspull charter).

And wether Hordies who hate the idea of the Alliance finally getting a race they care about beyond jus tthe Dark Irons care to admit it or not, Blizzard needs to buy back the trust of a lot of players, especially on the Alliance side, and High Elves are a cheap and easy way to do so.

[Ardenaso]

Another question: if the Highborne and High Elves see themselves as higher than the rest, why don't they bother teaming up to restore Eldre'thalas as a start?

[Obelisk Kai]

Comments like these are exactly why that video is a win. As they succinctly describe what it is the High Elf fans want. And that's good because as a higher authority in the community (and yes they do have higher authority than you or me or any rando player, accept that reality) it's something the WoW designers can take further stock of on the topic.

That you continue to ignorantly put words into other's mouth is what's not a win. There's already an available option to play a Blood Elf in the game, if what you're saying is what really is the case then "High Elf fans wanting to play High Elves" wouldn't even be a thing. It wouldn't be a "long-known requested option" as put in the T&E video. We have Blood Elves for how many years now? How can something stay as a long-requested if purportedly "people just wanna play Blood Elves"?

People would simply play Blood Elves and that'd be it. Just like people want player housing still despite Ion stating Garrisons "are our version of player housing". Continuing to stay ignorant about it and say "no you don't actually want what you're saying, you actually want this instead" just makes you look foolish instead.

The video is in a win in the sense that a drowning man, treading water, finds a holed plastic bag to hold onto. It doesn't do any good beyond the fleeting moment of hope it provides by it's mere existence before even the most cursory examination of the facts reveals it has little to no impact on the situation at hand.

What the video did do was describe 'high elf customisation' as giving Blood Elves a blue eye option. That's an implicit admission that that is what 'high elves' ultimately are seen as by the pro High Elf community, Blood Elves with blue eyes,. I wouldn't even describe it as high elf customisation myself, because Blood Elves are High Elves and to say giving them blue eyes is giving them high elf customisation then that is akin to saying giving brown eyes to humans will be giving a human customisation option to humans. An eye colour does not make a race. That it means far more to the pro High Elf community than to Blood Elf players is obvious. For Blood Elf players, it will be a nice little extra option for us, perhaps options 6, 7 and 8 under the seventh category of customisation choices for Blood Elves. For pro High Elfers, it is a thin blue line that seemingly must be defended to preserve the one physical difference they can sell between the exiles and the Blood Elves. But as I said earlier, an eye colour does not make a race.

Blood Elves are High Elves. And the exiles are the same race as Blood Elves, their politics are irrelevant to their racial status, so what you do want to play is a Blood Elf.
The option you want is already in the game, just not on the faction you want them to be on.

This doesn't even make sense to me and doesn't sound like what I was arguing at all. Nice strawman.

It is what you are arguing. You are arguing that because of the faction wall, Void Elves should get special consideration and receive customisations to make them look like unchanged high elves. Blood Elves ARE unchanged high elves, so these customisations are to make them look like an already available option.

Yes, and I don't see how this doesn't make sense. It would be like if one of the customization options added in the future puts a Goblin onto the Alliance with customization options not available with Horde Goblins.

Now a Goblin player cannot simply play Horde Goblins to have access to all their looks, they must upend their guilds/groups etc if they wanted to access options for Goblins exclusive to Alliance side.

How does that not make sense? Why wouldn't the Horde player request access to similar options so they can stay on the faction they have pride in if faction has such importance?

Orc, Tauren, Troll, Draenei, Dwarf, Gnome players all do not have to leave their faction to get access to all race customizations for their given faction. There is no need at all for Green Orcs to get Mag'har customization because both options are available already to Horde. There is no need for Dark Iron options on Dwarves because both options are available already for Alliance.

The Elves are an exception. And it should be obvious by now that Night Elf players have been wishing for more Highborne customizations (customizations that basically the Nightborne have). Why are they asking for it? Because those customization options are not available to Night Elves on Alliance side.

Are you still having trouble understanding this? You seem to be struggling with it. This is why your "do you expect Mag'har to get Green Orc customization" does not make sense. It is already there, on the same side. Is that how it is for Void Elves/Blood Elves?

Blood Elf players are wanting beard options available to Void Elf players since those were revealed, are you going around adamantly telling them to go play a Void Elf to have beards on Blood Elves? Should Blood Elf players not ask for more beard options for males because that's already a thing on Void Elves? That's how stupid your argument sounds because that would be the logical conclusion for it.

I think it's hilarious how you try to put great importance on "factions matter" then at the same time try to minimize it "oh just go play on the other side".

Factions do matter, saying I am minimising their importance by saying 'just go play the other side' seems to be a wilful misreading of what that means. It means if you want those options so badly, go play the faction they are available on.

This entire point is convoluted and nonsensical. You are again attempting to argue that the faction barrier that led to the creation of the Void Elves in the first place, so that they could give the Alliance a long asked for thalassian elf variant (without infringing on the aesthetic and thematic identity of the Blood Elves as the high elves of the franchise OR infringing upon the integrity of the Horde by giving the Alliance access to a core Horde race) is going to facilitate high elf like customisations on the Alliance Void Elves.

It is incorrect to argue that the factors that precluded the addition of the exiles as an Allied race are actually what is going to be a reason in favour of high elf like customisations on Void Elves. Once again, it seems you have an esoteric interpretation of what was said and you are clinging to it fiercely despite the gaping holes in your logic. It is worth reminding you of your form on this topic, where you alone insisted for months after Ion's initial November 2017 Jessie Cox interview that the reason he didn't announce high elves was because he didn't want to overshadow Void Elves on their big reveal day when the far more obvious explanation (which turned out to be true), that Void Elves were the intended replacement for the exiles, was simply rejected out of hand.

You must be nonsensical then because you've repeatedly stated that you agree it's possible for Void Elves to get "high elf like" options. How does Darkspear Trolls getting skins of different troll tribes not support that? A jungle troll would be very different from a sand troll, just as Kul'Tirans were made "seafaring specialty humans" and thus have racials tied to it. Only here with increased customizations Blizzard are just throwing out racials mattering since sand trolls will be an increased customization over being an Allied Race (despite the potential to be one in the same vein as a Kul'Tiran/HMT/LFD).

High Elf like and High Elf exact are two entirely different things, as you may learn in the fullness of time. Human range skin tones mottled, cracked and deformed by void energies would be high elf like in my book.

Darkspear Trolls are not biologically different from other Trolls, with the exception of the Zandalari who are already an Allied race. The skin tones currently unique to the other Troll tribes are still within the 'troll skin range', just as Humans getting african and asian tones within the human skin tone range does not mean a huge disruption of lore for them. Humans and Trolls aren't getting zapped by magic, trapped under dome for millenia or forged in the power of the light for these tones. These are just normal options for their species. Just as the Human tone range is expanding, so is the Troll tone range via playable Darkspear Trolls. And all that needs to be said to explain why a Darkspear looks like a Sand Troll is that their Dad or their Mum was a Sand Troll and they take after them. No extra lore is required beyond that.

On the other hand we know exactly where the Allied races came from. Nightborne trapped for millenia in their city. Lightforged Draenei who have pledged themselves fully to the light and been transformed by it. Void Elves zapped by torrents of void energies. The skin tone ranges for Lightforged Draenei and Void Elves are not natural Draenei or thalassian skin tone ranges, they are by-products of the transformation. They are also deliberate, designed to ensure a measure of thematic and aesthetic distance between them and their parent races.

So basically, asking why Trolls are getting all these new skin tones is beside the point. It's as lore breaking for Trolls to get these new tones as it for Humans to get these new tones. They are all natural, within the skin tone ranges for these races we have observed. Void Elves, Lightforged Draenei...even ordinary Orcs in fact, are trapped in specific skin tone ranges as a result of their respective stories.

This entire segment disregards that character customization isn't a need, but a want. One could argue we don't need increased customizations on existing races (what you are arguing essentially) and that focus should go to adding new races currently not available. Increased customizations throw out the "we don't need" bit. It's what people want. It's what people have wanted for a long time, and now they're finally getting it.

High Elves are another thing people have wanted for a long time, still remains to be seen if they get.

People got High Elves in 2007 with Blood Elves, a race of thalassian elves controlling Quel'thalas, a restored Sunwell, who have a connection to the light and offer Paladin, Hunter and Mage options (representing the big three strands of elven culture). What some people want is to duplicate that race to the Alliance because they don't like the company the Blood Elves keep. Had the story been written in such a way that the Blood Elves had rejoined the Alliance in TBC, I doubt you would be here arguing over thirteen years later that High Elves still needed to be added.

Those who wanted thalassian elves on the Alliance received Void Elves as the compromise option. To argue it still remains to be seen if they will get what they want conjures an image of a child on the day after Christmas, sitting with his Megatron with purple cannon toy in front of the fireplace, waiting to see if Santa will come back and give him Timmy down the road's Megatron toy with a red cannon because THAT is the one he wanted. That child got something almost exactly what he wanted, and he couldn't have exactly what he wanted because what he wanted was in use by someone else.

The refusal to accept that the factions matter, that faction diversity matter and that some diversity must be maintained in the name of that faction divide is why the pro high elf side is perennially unhappy, incapable of receiving a 95% compromise option and insisting on complete perfection in order to be appeased. Void Elves were given to the Alliance because a desire was articulated by some Alliance players. They were created the way they were to respect the diversity of the factions and the identity of the Blood Elves. Most people have accepted the compromise, as Void Elven popularity shows.

Nothing it seems is ever good enough. Blood Elves are High Elves, identical in every way to the traditional high elf fantasy with the exception that they are on the Horde which, by the pro High Elf reckoning, means they can't be the true high elves, legitimacy is conferred not by the race themselves but by their fealty to the correct faction.
And when they get a thalassian elf variant, the very variations used that allow them to exist in the first place are also deemed so offensive that thry desire to neuter them by adding 'high elf customisation' to Void Elves. They would tear out what makes Void Elves unique, and their skin tones are emblematic of their theme, just to get ersatz high elves. Two thalassian elven races they would happily damage in their quest because neither is absolutely, one hundred percent what they want. Just as a Void Elf with those tones wouldn't be a hundred percent what they want, their constantly triggering racials and emotes would shatter any attempt at a suspension of disbelief to the point where IF the pro high elf community got the look down pat, the next step would be a cry for 'unique racials' and 'voice options'.

He states "it would be the simplest thing for Blizzard to do" which is true and is what everyone accepts: putting Blue eyes on Blood Elves then going around to herald 'see high elves now'. It would be no different than if Blizzard decided to put brown skins on green orcs and say 'there now you have mag'har' or put spotty green skins with an upright option onto darkspear and say 'there's your zandalari'. I'm highly confident the fans of Mag'har or Zandalari would be upset if that was a case for them as well.


It in no way means "the casual playerbase accepts these as mag'har and zandalari". It just means Blizzard took the laziest route they could and did not care for what those fans wanted.

Same as we're seeing them give us 100% right now for kicks, do you think they're doing this just because "it helps to bring the game to a better state and not damage it"? No, it's because it provides an incentive to help with social isolation. Has nothing to do with being better or worse for the game.

Just like if they do add blue eyes to Blood Elves and then say "this is your high elves that's it". Except they've stated High Elves are a possibility on Alliance so I don't believe it matters whether blue eyes come to Blood Elves. It only changes if as I said, they then proclaim "we decided this is how we're going to handle high elves."

Actually had Blizzard implemented brown skins onto Mag'har years people would have accepted them. But they were implemented as an Allied race, as the Zandalari were. Allied races are defined by unique lore origins which resulted in customizations that are unique to them. Zandalari are biologically distinct from ordinary Trolls. Mag'har are uncorrupted Orcs.

And Blood Elves ARE High Elves. As stated, blue eyes for them will just be a neat extra customization option if we get them, but it won't make Blood Elves high elves in the same way the addition of brown eyes won't suddenly start making humans, well, Human. They already are High Elves.

And they have never stated high elves are a possibility on the Alliance. If you are referring to the two occasions Ion said 'Anything is possible', those were both after lengthy answers where he explained why they weren't happening. And as his answer to Preach on the topic of the return of master loot illustrated, 'Anything is possible in future' is Ion's go to phrase when what he really means is 'we have absolutely zero plans or intentions to alter what we've said or done on this'.

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Simple. High Elves have been Alliance longer than Blood Elves Horde, since Vanilla in fact. Alliance players interact more with them than with Gnomes. They are also the only allied race which makes sense Alliance-wise, instead of the usual ass-pulls of Blizzard (Draeneï, Worgen, Void Elves, Lightforged, Kul Tirans and Trash Gnomes are all, to an extent ranging from "absolute bullshitting" to "relatively harmful" on the asspull charter).

And wether Hordies who hate the idea of the Alliance finally getting a race they care about beyond jus tthe Dark Irons care to admit it or not, Blizzard needs to buy back the trust of a lot of players, especially on the Alliance side, and High Elves are a cheap and easy way to do so.

The High Elves left the Alliance after the Second War, pulled out by Anasterian at the first opportunity due to Quel'thalas isolationist tendencies. They were the first to leave. They were also the last to join, committing to the Alliance only when the Horde directly attacked them.

A brief reattachment to the Alliance in the days following the collapse of Quel'thalas did not last as Kael'thas left the Alliance entirely following the Garithos incident. The few stragglers that are left in the Alliance are their of their own volition. To say the High Elves are Alliance would be like saying the Britsh are still a part of the European Union because some of their expatriates live in the EU.

In contrast the Gnomes, a race you frequently denigrate throughout this post, has been Alliance since the Second War, has helped the Alliance on numerous occasions, and even allowed their own city to fall and most of their people to die so as not to distract the Alliance at a critical opportunity.

Your assertion that Alliance players deal more with the exiles rather than the Gnomes seems like a case of selective bias. Gnomes, as a core Alliance race, are ominipresent throughout the game and are seen in multiple Alliance bases and scenarios. They are a far more iconic Alliance race than a race that bailed on the Alliance on two separate occasions and the vast majority of whom merrily spent the past year waging war on the Alliance.

As for your criticisms of the 'usual ass-pulls' the Alliance got, all options listed seem suffer from the same sin. Namely, none of them were High Elves. Your diagnosed solution, adding High Elves, is therefore unsurprising. I do not think the value of the races the Alliance did get should be judged because they weren't the one option you clearly want above all others.