1. #14781
    Bloodsail Admiral Aldo Hawk's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Varx View Post
    Honestly after the reveal of wildhammer and troll variants as customization options in SL im surprised people are still going with this.

    This proves that high elves will never be a thing. They're not going to keep adding ARs for every sub faction of a race.

    You guys got velves, thats it. At most you moght get some less voidy options but you'd still he a void elf.

    If blizz ever intended to give you helves then velves would never have been implemented.
    This is literally the 50th time you came to this thread just to drop a dump comment like this.

    It's like... Yeah, bro, we heard you already, anything else to add? This discussion doesn't need more useless comments made with the sole purpose of heating people up.

    And then you will complain when others say something about it. Is this the 'oh-so-civil' discussion everyone talks about? This is not civil, it's disgustingly boring and useless.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Strippling View Post
    Pretty much. I think many high elfers are now realizing that high elves as their own race is extremely unlikely to happen, so they're rather focusing their time on asking for "high elf customizations" for void elves... which again is extremely unlikely. It goes to show though that for many it was not about the lore, just the aesthetic.
    You will NEVER be happy with a response or cope with what others have said. You have ACTIVELY ignored what others explained to you not only on this matter, but on others as well, just like you have actively ignored my explanation on what the Chris Metzen phrase doesn't mean what you said it means.

    It's either they give an AR or they give something that can be played as an Alliance High elf, thing that exist in the lore you say others despise, period.

    It's always the same shit, and you have the guts to say that you are 'civil' about this discussion. This is not civil, civil people try to understand and come to terms, not repeat the same old crap until the other part assimilates it. Heating a debate with radicalized opinions is not.

  2. #14782
    Quote Originally Posted by Aldo Hawk View Post
    You will NEVER be happy with a response or cope with what others have said. You have ACTIVELY ignored what others explained to you not only on this matter, but on others as well, just like you have actively ignored my explanation on what the Chris Metzen phrase doesn't mean what you said it means.

    What Metzen said is pretty black and white: blood elves are our high elves.

    There isn't anything else to it, other than blood elves are the representation of the high elf race in WoW. The only people who seem to think his black and white statement has some "ulterior definition" to it are high elfers. Practically everyone else accepts blood elves for what they are, which is the high elf race. As such, the high elf race is already playable and has been since TBC. So, asking for playable high elves in the alliance would only blur faction lines (as was explained to us by blizzard themselves).

    Quote Originally Posted by Aldo Hawk View Post
    It's either they give an AR or they give something that can be played as an Alliance High elf, thing that exist in the lore you say others despise, period.
    They gave you an AR - void elves. Which were a compromise to the issue at hand.
    Blood elves are our high elves - Chris Metzen

  3. #14783
    Bloodsail Admiral Aldo Hawk's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Strippling View Post
    What Metzen said is pretty black and white: blood elves are our high elves.
    4th time I repeat this to you: https://www.mmo-champion.com/threads...1#post52165801

    Is this gonna be a 4th time you ignore it? You haven't adressed what was said to you, and what was explained utterly defeat the purpose you seek by saying that phrase took out of context and mindedness.

    There isn't anything else to it, other than blood elves are the representation of the high elf race in WoW.
    'Blood elves are our High elves'. It's obviously referring as in comparison to other fantasy worlds, such as Tolkien.

    The only people who seem to think his black and white statement has some "ulterior definition" to it are high elfers. Practically everyone else accepts blood elves for what they are, which is the high elf race. As such, the high elf race is already playable and has been since TBC. So, asking for playable high elves in the alliance would only blur faction lines (as was explained to us by blizzard themselves).
    And what this entire phrase proves is that you have built some prejudices that you aren't willing to overcome since that would means you would have to accept how wrong you were with these people you so vehemently antagonised for the sake of it again and again.

    Instead of repeating that you know what others 'actually' want, use some time into learning about the lore and the whys and whats.

    They gave you an AR - void elves. Which were a compromise to the issue at hand.
    Void elves aren't accepted as a way to play the High elves that as per lore are part of the Alliance. There's no debate over what someone prefers or not, just unwanted opinions that serve no other purpose than being contrarian.

  4. #14784
    Legendary! Obelisk Kai's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Pennem View Post
    Not unanswerable at all. It's very easy: they iterate and think of better ways to implement something. Increased customizations are an evolution from Allied Races.

    You may as well ask the question: Why did Lightforged/Mag'har/Highmountain Tauren/Mechagnomes come into existence as Allied Races when they could've been (and what was presumed before AR system reveal) increased customizations to their existing race options?
    Well here we disagree, the requests for a sub-race system have been around almost as long as requests for increased customisation options. For the longest time many believed that the best way to implement a sub-race system would have been through increased customisation rather than a dedicated system and I cheerfully admit I was one of those people. Blizzard opted to go another way, I think it wasn't the right way but we are where we are. Allied races exist, they are a thing and they can't be wished away. Future iteration has to take account of their existence, as well as the steps undertaken in their creation to differentiate them from their parent races.
    Allied races are not just extra customization options, they are variants with a distinct, highly specified lore origin. Whereas the core races have a lot more leeway in defining the origins of any member of that group, with an Allied race we know where they came from.

    Your Tauren can easily be portrayed as a Grimtotem Tauren who stayed loyal to Baine following Magatha's attempted coup. Your highmountain tauren can only ever have come from Highmountain because that is where the Tauren who were blessed by Cenarius and who passed that gift onto their descendants chose to dwell.

    Your Lightforged Draenei could have been on the Xenedar for thousands of years. Or he could be a recruit from the Draenei of the Exodar, eager to undergo the lightforging process. But the commonality that is inescapable is that all Lightforged Draenei must be lightforged, and their customizations cannot be expanded to encompass Draenei who are not lightforged as that would defeat the point of the Allied race.

    And all Void Elves must have undergone the transformative ritual that made them Void Elves.

    Quote Originally Posted by Pennem View Post
    Just like how Darkspear Trolls are getting various tribes with different cultures/looks/stories (let's call all this fluff) compared to Darkspear and all that "fluff" is being swept under the rug to simply give Darkspear more customization options.

    Same thing, except in Void Elf case you're actually bringing a race option (Thalassian) to a faction that didn't have it before. Therefore it actually has more of an effect than the above 4 examples that simply could have been (and were presumed to be) added customization like we are getting in Shadowlands.


    It's also why we have systems like Void Storage which no longer serve any purpose at all given that Collections tab is a thing now. It's a vestige of an earlier design solution. The Portal Rooms are another example of an iterative design solution to previously existing portals. You're trying to act as if increased customizations are in no way an iteration of the customization brought in by Allied Races.

    All of it is an extension what's been said by Ion, to increase the overall variety of character customization as it's been a long time coming. As you've said, customization in WoW has been so limited up to this point.

    That's exactly why they're trying to open up those further limitations, I do not know how you do not understand that.

    If Darkspears continued to look blue, if Dwarves & Blood Elves were not getting starkly dark brown skin tones, if Undead stayed to pale options, and instead of having 1-10 choices of blue/fair/pale (for respective races) you had 1-20 choices of blue/fair/pale respectively you are not opening up limitations, you are keeping limitations. That is, a darkspear must stay blue, a dwarf/blood elf must stay fair, an undead must stay pale.

    It's incredible how many words you try using to essentially justify "Void Elves have to stay limited to an aesthetic but no other race has to, even though we are getting a new system that breaks existing aesthetic limitations on other races".
    Your interpretation of what advanced customization means doesn't make sense. You insist on reaching for examples among the core races despite those comparisons not being accurate. Dwarves and Troll customization options are not duplicating aesthetics of already available options. There are no other Undead races for the current Undead to steal from when their customization options are expanded. Anything that is added to these races are options that have never been available in World of Warcraft before.

    Your insistence on arguing Void Elves are going to be treated exactly the same as Dwarves and Trolls and any other core race is why you are wrong. The real comparisons are

    Mag'har Orcs -- Ordinary Orcs.
    Highmountain Tauren -- Ordinary Tauren
    Nightborne -- Night Elves
    Dark Iron Dwarves -- Bronzebeard Dwarves
    Lightforged Draenei -- Ordinary Draenei
    Void Elves -- Blood Elves.


    In other words, those Allied races that share the majority of their design DNA with their parents. Allied races exist, and they can't be easily rendered redundant as void storage ultimately was. What options allied races get when they get their customization passes will be circumscribed by what their parents got.

    Mag'har Orcs will not get green skins. Is that 'limiting their aesthetic'? No, it's respecting the fact we already have green orcs in the game and if you want to play a green orc you should play that. Similarly, ordinary Orcs won't be getting the skin tone range available to Mag'har because those options define a Mag'har.

    Same for every Allied race. If we took your argument at face value there is no reason we couldn't have Dark Iron Dwarves that look like ordinay Dwarves, Lightforged Draenei who look like ordinary Draenei, Hightmountain Tauren with cow horns, Nightborne indistinguishable from Night Elves. It obliterates in every instance the deliberate aesthetic differentiation blizzard undertook to ensure these races look distinct from their parents.

    The principle is solid. If the core race has it as an option, the allied race almost certainly won't get it. And if the Allied race has it, the Core race won't get it. Because you'll notice the skin that wasn't listed for Dwarves in the presentation was a Dark Iron Dwarf skin because those are part of what defines a Dark Iron Dwarf and giving those options to ordinary Dwarves renders Dark Iron Dwarves a bit pointless as a choice.

    Allied races ARE different from core races. Their aesthetics are limited by their origins whether you like it or not, but that doesn't mean they won't be getting extra customizations because there are far more imaginative options that can be added to these races without obliterating the aesthetic differentiation that was used to justify their inclusion in the first place and which are consistent with their existing lore.

    Which ultimately boils down to the fact that whatever customizations Void Elves end up getting, it will follow the principle that allowed their creation in the first place, not to blur the lines with an already playable race and one that is on the other faction at that.
    Last edited by Obelisk Kai; 2020-03-27 at 11:38 AM.

  5. #14785
    Brewmaster elbleuet's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Varodoc View Post
    Blizzard will eventually add new customization options for allied races, since many people play them. When they do, pink skin tones for void elves seems like a natural addition. I can see them touching allied races towards the endgame of Shadowlands or in 10.0 if they plan to continue adding customizations in future expansion. But I can't see them just straight ignoring 10 races just because they are not core races. I know they said they have only the core races planned for Shadowlands' release, but eventually they'll run out of core races to improve.
    Exactly what I think.

    We'll get our playable high elves, soon or later
    "If you want to play alongside High and Void elves, the Alliance is waiting for you"

  6. #14786
    Quote Originally Posted by elbleuet View Post
    Exactly what I think.

    We'll get our playable high elves, soon or later
    I just want to look like Alleria lol. But yes I can see why High Elf RPers would love pink skin tones for Void elves.

    It's actually better if you get pink skin tones for Void elves instead of playable High elves, that way you don't even have to spend money to race/faction change, you can just go to the barber shop in-game.

  7. #14787
    Brewmaster elbleuet's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Varodoc View Post
    I just want to look like Alleria lol. But yes I can see why High Elf RPers would love pink skin tones for Void elves.

    It's actually better if you get pink skin tones for Void elves instead of playable High elves, that way you don't even have to spend money to race/faction change, you can just go to the barber shop in-game.
    Since we got void elves, we will never get high elves as a race of its own. It's unlikely.

    Buuut indeed we may get pink skin tones and tattoos just like Alleria.

    Blizzard made things clear in BFA : high elves are still around and aren't dying and are still part of the Alliance.
    "If you want to play alongside High and Void elves, the Alliance is waiting for you"

  8. #14788
    That's exactly it, to be able to look like Alleria.
    By also adding new hairstyles without tentacles and having "natural" hair colors, for the eyes, have the choice between the white / bluish of the void elves and the blue / purple of the high elves.

  9. #14789
    Quote Originally Posted by Pennem View Post
    Given that High Elf customization is asked for unanimously even amongst Void Elf fans ......
    Except it's not asked for unanimously, as evidenced from the fact that this thread exists...not everyone has asked for this and there are people who are even against the idea. Therefore, it's not unanimous.

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by Aldo Hawk View Post
    4th time I repeat this to you: https://www.mmo-champion.com/threads...1#post52165801

    Is this gonna be a 4th time you ignore it? You haven't adressed what was said to you, and what was explained utterly defeat the purpose you seek by saying that phrase took out of context and mindedness.

    'Blood elves are our High elves'. It's obviously referring as in comparison to other fantasy worlds, such as Tolkien.
    Just to support this argument, the conversation this quote comes form was discussing the rewrite of classic wood elf lore (such as Tolkien) into the Night Elves, and how how classic High Elves would get a facelift someday too.

    https://www.lby3.com/2005/10/29/bliz...e-of-warcraft/

    Not supporting the Blood Elf vs High Elf debate here, just providing context for this quote from Metzen.

  10. #14790
    I am Murloc! FlubberPuddy's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Obelisk Kai View Post
    Your Tauren can easily be portrayed as a Grimtotem Tauren who stayed loyal to Baine following Magatha's attempted coup. Your highmountain tauren can only ever have come from Highmountain because that is where the Tauren who were blessed by Cenarius and who passed that gift onto their descendants chose to dwell.

    Your Lightforged Draenei could have been on the Xenedar for thousands of years. Or he could be a recruit from the Draenei of the Exodar, eager to undergo the lightforging process. But the commonality that is inescapable is that all Lightforged Draenei must be lightforged, and their customizations cannot be expanded to encompass Draenei who are not lightforged as that would defeat the point of the Allied race.

    And all Void Elves must have undergone the transformative ritual that made them Void Elves.
    All you're doing here is explaining the status quo, you are avoiding that increased customizations coming in SL change the landscape of the topic. Look at the Darkspear increased customizations and how sand trolls or even you say you heard blood trolls are coming. These troll tribes have vastly different cultures/aesthetics to Darkspear. Some practice blood magic necromancy, some are cannibals. Darkspear, who are jungle trolls, and the sand trolls/blood trolls/ etc other trolls are all very different from each other culturally despite being overall the same race.

    Just as a Lightforged Draenei is still a Draenei, but they went through being Lightforged. A Sand Troll is still a Troll but their culture/aesthetics leads them to be different from a Darkspear (Jungle Troll). So much so that the skin tones of a Sand Troll and Darkspear are very different, just as the Lightforged and Draenei look different in customization as well.

    Allied Races will continue to exist, and more may exist in the future. I highly doubt we will ever get Allied Races like Mag'har/HMT/LFD/Void Elves/DID/Mechagnomes again, where they are exactly the same model as an existing counterpart within the context of increased customizations in place. We will most likely only start getting Allied Races that are as unique/different as Nightborne/Kul'Tiran/Vulpera/Zandalari. Especially with the majority opinion from the playerbase that AR like Mechagnomes/LFD/HMT etc could've been added as customization options.

    Hell, we might even see existing Draenei get something akin to Lightforged (aka things like a Naaru symbol but blue for their foreheads/tattoos etc). Just like Night Elves may see themselves getting Highborne looks along with more Druid-y things like Antlers/Leaves.
    Quote Originally Posted by Obelisk Kai View Post
    Your interpretation of what advanced customization means doesn't make sense. You insist on reaching for examples among the core races despite those comparisons not being accurate. Dwarves and Troll customization options are not duplicating aesthetics of already available options. There are no other Undead races for the current Undead to steal from when their customization options are expanded. Anything that is added to these races are options that have never been available in World of Warcraft before.
    No one is talking about "duplicating aesthetics" either. Is the Dark skin Dwarves are getting the same as Dark Iron Dwarves? No, yet it's still "dark skin dwarf." Please rewatch this segment on Character Customization that Ion gives:



    And in particular pay attention to the fact that he lumps Allied Races system and improved combat animations with Character Customization presentation as well as then talking about 'this time we want to improve customization on the original WoW races'. This links what I said earlier about Allied Races being a precursor to the improved way they are increasing character customization in the game.

    Also note this as well because you seem to brush it under the rug or probably forgot about it.

    "The idea here is to give more options than ever before so that you can actually look and feel like you want to feel and different from the others around you who play the exact same race."

    This is why your "real comparisons" are defunct. The entire premise of these increased customizations are not comparing them to other races, it is comparing the existing customizations a given race has and adding variety to what is already there.

    That is why we did not see Ion praising Trolls getting more blue skins, Dwarves getting more earthy brown fair tones, Undead getting more pale skin bits. What did he point out? Different skin tones, tattoos, 'looking like a wildhammer' 'setting eye color different from face' 'non-bony undead'.

    None of it was heralding to keeping the status quo of what the original WoW races have already had. You can boil it down to "What does this given race not already have, that we can add?"

    Your insistence on comparing to other existing races is meaningless, especially if you re-read and understand what I quoted from Ion. I am not sure how you can look at that statement, which he says is the goal of their system, and keep bringing in other races to compare to when it's focused on options within a race itself.
    Quote Originally Posted by Obelisk Kai View Post
    Mag'har Orcs will not get green skins.
    Likewise, I have never argued that we will see Dark Iron options on Bronzebeards, or Mag'har getting green skin. Those examples don't work in the context of Void Elf/Blood Elf comparison anyway because those options all exist on the same faction.

    If an Alliance player wants to play any kind of Dwarf they do not have to go outside the Alliance to achieve that. If a Horde player wants to play all iterations of an Orc they can do so within their own faction. Let's also not forget that the cultures within these examples do not vary greatly at all. Whether you play a Dark Iron or Bronzebeard they are both dwarven people that revel in alcohol, bushy beards, interest in treasure, mountain/stone aesthetic etc. Same for Mag'har and Green Orcs, both groups are very culturally the same in regards to what Orcs love.

    The Elves (all 4, not merely Void/Blood) are not privy to that. On top of all 4 having varying degrees of aesthetic, their cultures are actually different from each other. Night Elves praise Elune, do druidy things, revere Moonwells. A Nightborne is more arcane focused,non-nature/non-priestly. A Blood Elf reveres the Sunwell, utilizes Anima, strives for survival. A Void Elf has no reverence for any type of Well, takes in the Void, strives for control.

    Someone who plays a Dark Iron Dwarf will be presented with all the same things all Dwarves love. Same for Mag'har Orcs vs green Orcs. Playing either variation of Dwarf lets you know what all Dwarves are about. Playing either variation of Orc lets you know what all Orcs are about. Same for LFD, Same for HMT.

    Someone who plays a Night Elf will be exposed to a vastly different cultural outlook on what that race enjoys than when they play a Nightborne or a Blood Elf or a Void Elf. Playing a Night Elf doesn't let you see what all Elves are about due to how different each are.

    There's so many nuances that you are ignoring. The fact is this, Alleria - being a Void Elf, can look like a regular high elf. The fact is this, increased customizations are all about adding variety that does not already exist in the race. The fact is this, they stem from what players have wanted for ages (human ethnicities, wildhammer dwarves, more troll tribes, non-bony undead).

    And the last fact is this, a lot of what's been requested from Void Elf players is the ability to look like a high elf akin to Alleria. What result happens to come from that request we'll just have to wait and see.

    But it's very flawed to continue arguing with a focus on other races when the goal of increased customizations is as Ion said, "...different from those around you who play the exact same race."

    Another way to think about is this: Is Ion during the presentation on increased customizations, telling troll players to go play a Zandalari if they want to play a different troll tribe? No he is adding options directly into Darkspear. Is Ion telling those that want dark skin Dwarves to go play a Dark Iron Dwarf? No, he is adding in deep, dark brown tones to Bronzebeards. Same for Humans, not being told to go play Kul'Tiran to look like a different human ethnically, options being added into the Humans.

    It is all focused on adding customizations within a race that the race was not privy to before.

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by Katchii View Post
    Except it's not asked for unanimously, as evidenced from the fact that this thread exists...not everyone has asked for this and there are people who are even against the idea. Therefore, it's not unanimous.
    Just google "high elf customization for Void Elves".

    You can't judge what the entire playerbase wants based on this thread alone dude. So evidencing this thread does nothing. We're a niche group of people discussing a niche topic.

    Broaden the topic search and you will find more players talking/discussing the idea of getting high elf customization onto Void Elves. So much so that it was even asked in an interview to Alex Afrasiabi who said "it's possible."

    It's unanimous if you don't look in a bubble. I am not sure why you think this thread alone carries the entirety of the High Elf discussion that's taking place all over the world on various websites.

    Just like it's not very hard to find people wanting to fly at the beginning of expansions, but you will have a hard time finding that as a recent topic here on MMO-C. (as in looking through the recent thread pages). Despite it being very well-known as a topic among the playerbase.
    Last edited by FlubberPuddy; 2020-03-27 at 04:26 PM.

  11. #14791
    Brewmaster elbleuet's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Katchii View Post
    Except it's not asked for unanimously, as evidenced from the fact that this thread exists...not everyone has asked for this and there are people who are even against the idea. Therefore, it's not unanimous.

    - - - Updated - - -



    Just to support this argument, the conversation this quote comes form was discussing the rewrite of classic wood elf lore (such as Tolkien) into the Night Elves, and how how classic High Elves would get a facelift someday too.

    https://www.lby3.com/2005/10/29/bliz...e-of-warcraft/

    Not supporting the Blood Elf vs High Elf debate here, just providing context for this quote from Metzen.
    I already knew this argument was pointless, but a great thanks for giving us its context.
    "If you want to play alongside High and Void elves, the Alliance is waiting for you"

  12. #14792
    High Elves should become their own Allied Race with appropriate mount and heritage armour. They can fly Unicorn banner instead of Phoenix.

    They are cheap to make and offer a lot profits. It's a no brainer situation and Blizzard will make them playable one day.

  13. #14793
    Quote Originally Posted by Pennem View Post
    Just google "high elf customization for Void Elves".

    You can't judge what the entire playerbase wants based on this thread alone dude. So evidencing this thread does nothing. We're a niche group of people discussing a niche topic.

    Broaden the topic search and you will find more players talking/discussing the idea of getting high elf customization onto Void Elves. So much so that it was even asked in an interview to Alex Afrasiabi who said "it's possible."

    It's unanimous if you don't look in a bubble. I am not sure why you think this thread alone carries the entirety of the High Elf discussion that's taking place all over the world on various websites.

    Just like it's not very hard to find people wanting to fly at the beginning of expansions, but you will have a hard time finding that as a recent topic here on MMO-C. (as in looking through the recent thread pages). Despite it being very well-known as a topic among the playerbase.
    Unanimous means everyone wants it, that is objectively false in this case.

  14. #14794
    I am Murloc! FlubberPuddy's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Katchii View Post
    Unanimous means everyone wants it, that is objectively false in this case.
    By using this thread, you're counting people who are not Void Elf fans. I said among Void Elf fans it's unanimous.

    Not sure the reason for being a pedant about it though. But whatever floats your boat.

  15. #14795
    Bloodsail Admiral Aldo Hawk's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Katchii View Post
    Except it's not asked for unanimously, as evidenced from the fact that this thread exists...not everyone has asked for this and there are people who are even against the idea. Therefore, it's not unanimous.
    Yeah, this is true.

    Just to support this argument, the conversation this quote comes form was discussing the rewrite of classic wood elf lore (such as Tolkien) into the Night Elves, and how how classic High Elves would get a facelift someday too.

    https://www.lby3.com/2005/10/29/bliz...e-of-warcraft/

    Not supporting the Blood Elf vs High Elf debate here, just providing context for this quote from Metzen.
    No, not once the phrase 'Blood elves are our High elves' appear on that link.

    That comes from here:

    I hope the timestamp works correctly but it's in 6:38.

    There you see Chris Metzen talking about the High elves as how other fantasy worlds portray them, and then explain that they wanted to do something extra to it, and then explain that Blood elves are their High elves. Then he adds more about how the Blood elves are and all that, placing enphasis on a comparison with the concept 'High elf' as how fantasy worlds generally portrays them.

    He is talking about the new addition to the game, the playable option 'Blood elf'. High elves as per people that are High elves and still call themselves High elves still exist in the warcraft universe, so the way @Strippling tries to portray it is not only wrong, but deceiving (it depends on how honest he is about it ).

    So yeah, that's the thing.

  16. #14796
    I am Murloc! FlubberPuddy's Avatar
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    How fucken hilarious.

    Taliesin & Evital made a video basically saying all the same points I've been saying about increased customizations when he talks about the system itself as well as dwarves/trolls (also as well as what High Elf fans have been saying too during that little segment).

    Last edited by FlubberPuddy; 2020-03-28 at 05:25 AM.

  17. #14797
    I am Murloc! Maljinwo's Avatar
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    Just roll a velf, put on a hoodie if the purple is too much for you and RP as a high elf
    This world don't give us nothing. It be our lot to suffer... and our duty to fight back.

  18. #14798
    Legendary! Obelisk Kai's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Pennem View Post
    How fucken hilarious.

    Taliesin & Evital made a video basically saying all the same points I've been saying about increased customizations when he talks about the system itself as well as dwarves/trolls (also as well as what High Elf fans have been saying too during that little segment).

    Taliesin and Evitel are some of my favourite wow content creators, with an optimism and joy for the game lacking in a lot of other commentators on the product. However that does not mean their analyses are beyond reproach or criticism. His 'why high elves should be an allied race' video entirely skipped over any discussion of the main reason as to why they were actually passed over, the impact they would have on faction diversity and as such reached a flawed conclusion, as any conclusion would be if you skipped over a large part of what informed the decision making process.

    This video isn't as flawed as his high elf discussion but it does highlight a problem with his methodology when it comes to making speculative videos such as these, as we saw in the previous class skins video and tinker videos he did. It's the same flaw inherent in your own reasoning. An assumption, with no evidence, that what Blizzard have hinted at means that all previous assumptions can be disregarded.

    For example, he speculates that the Forsaken could get undead options of every race. That isn't going to happen of course and I reckon he knows it isn't going to happen, but that is why some speculation shouldn't be treated as based on hard fact or a strong feeling that it is going to happen. Some speculation is just for fun, to tease an idea, which is what for the most part he is doing here. However many of the options he talks about are fine, even Night Elves having undead skin tones could be considered plausible in light of recent events and because the Horde can't make, nor should the Horde be allowed to make, undead Night Elves (which you can make on the Alliance anyway as a Night Elf death knight).

    What I do find funny is his high elf commentary, where he recognises the easiest way to add a high elf 'option' to the game is just to give Blood Elves a blue eyes customisation. I find it funny because if all that stands between him and a recognition that a high elf option is in the game is an eye colour, that he is basing his dissent from Blizzard's stated fact 'that Blood Elves are our High Elves' on what will ultimately be two or three options among eleven or twelve under the fifth or sixth category of Blood Elven customisation. He recognises the one reason Blizzard wouldn't give Blood Elves blue eyes as well, pissing off the pro high elf fanbase, so it's not an objection of lore but an objection based on taking the feelings of those who want the exiles into account. Frankly if I were Blizzard I'd prioritise people actually playing Blood Elves and what they want added because Blood Elves are an actually playable race. And we know what they think of the pro High Elf communities requests, given the level of snark Ion delievered the 2018 answer with.

    And nothing that Taliesin says deals with the fundamental problem with your current idea, your current idea attempting to build a one size fits all system wherein everything for everyone is justified, the problem being that it is a common sense if an option is available to a current or existing race, then it's not going to be added to their allied/core race counterpart because that would undermine the differentiation between the two groups that currently exists.
    It is more than possible to offer all races, whether core or allied, plentiful new customisation options without rendering existing distinctions pointless.

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by Pennem View Post
    Likewise, I have never argued that we will see Dark Iron options on Bronzebeards, or Mag'har getting green skin. Those examples don't work in the context of Void Elf/Blood Elf comparison anyway because those options all exist on the same faction.
    And this. This is it.

    The logic of your idea leads towards the divisions between core races and their associated allied races being demolished, but here you identity the real motivation as you attempt to disown the logical outcome of your suggestions on the other allied races. The one true difference between the Blood Elves and the exiles. The one that the pro High Elf community has attempted to obfuscate, downplay or deny in favour of narratives that the exiles are more heroic, or purer, or have a celtic woodland theme, or are rugged and muscular compared to the weedy magic users, but here we have it in black and white as typed by yourself.

    What really matters is that the Blood Elf aesthetic exists on the Horde and Alliance players would have to be Horde to access it.

    They spent all Blizzcon attempting to hammer this fact home but the faction system matters and faction diversity is an important component of that system. The division between Horde and Alliance is a pillar of the Warcraft franchise. And it's now clear what you see this increased customization pass as, a way to get around Ion's stated objection that if you want to play a traditional elf, the Horde is waiting for you. It's an attempt to circumvent the reasoning that led to the creation of the Void Elves in the first place by pretending that the rationale that led to the creation of the Void Elves no longer matters. If they ever intended to give high elves to the Alliance, they would have just given high elves to the Alliance.

    At least you've admitted it here, we can dispense with all the other discussion because your stance on this particular matter is supremely easy to summarise. Void Elves should get the Blood Elf skin tone range because otherwise you'd have to play Horde.
    Last edited by Obelisk Kai; 2020-03-28 at 10:32 AM.

  19. #14799
    Quote Originally Posted by Obelisk Kai View Post
    Frankly if I were Blizzard I'd prioritise people actually playing Blood Elves and what they want added because Blood Elves are an actually playable race. And we know what they think of the pro High Elf communities requests, given the level of snark Ion delievered the 2018 answer with.


    Luckily you are not blizzard lol

    They can no longer afford to shit (especially with the alliance).

  20. #14800
    Bloodsail Admiral Aldo Hawk's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Obelisk Kai View Post
    His 'why high elves should be an allied race' video entirely skipped over any discussion of the main reason as to why they were actually passed over, the impact they would have on faction diversity and as such reached a flawed conclusion, as any conclusion would be if you skipped over a large part of what informed the decision making process.
    Because it's not your conclusion.

    This video isn't as flawed as his high elf discussion but it does highlight a problem with his methodology when it comes to making speculative videos such as these, as we saw in the previous class skins video and tinker videos he did.
    Because it's not your methodology.

    For example, he speculates that the Forsaken could get undead options of every race. That isn't going to happen of course and I reckon he knows it isn't going to happen, but that is why some speculation shouldn't be treated as based on hard fact or a strong feeling that it is going to happen. Some speculation is just for fun, to tease an idea, which is what for the most part he is doing here.
    Because it's not your speculation.

    What I do find funny is his high elf commentary, where he recognises the easiest way to add a high elf 'option' to the game is just to give Blood Elves a blue eyes customisation.
    What is funny is that you don't stare for a moment in front of a phrase that isn't true and don't question it because it's something you would have said, but very veiled, and not in the humoristic tone the T&E channel has because you are obsessed with looking serious.

    I find it funny because if all that stands between him and a recognition that a high elf option is in the game is an eye colour, that he is basing his dissent from Blizzard's stated fact 'that Blood Elves are our High Elves' on what will ultimately be two or three options among eleven or twelve under the fifth or sixth category of Blood Elven customisation.
    If at this point you haven't understood that a blue eyed Blood elf is not a High elf (as per the name of the group, obviously, not everyone needs to be constantly reminded of the fact ) then there's nothing actually important that you have to say about it, just more useless fluff as per usual.

    And no, 'Blood Elves are our High Elves' does not mean what you think it means, maybe revisit the source and try to look at it without critical clutter

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