Official High Elf Discussion Megathread

[Cyanu]

No. I said that saying people who want to play High Elves to go play Blood Elves is like telling people wanting to play Free French to play Vichy. And the Blood Elves have aligned with the ones who slaughtered their families (Orcs and Undeads) over the Alliance. They have at least enabled to genocidal campaigns and ethnic cleansings of the Horde. They are far from pristine or even decent people.
@Cyanu

That's one of the most ridiculous take I've seen on the razing of Quel'thalas. Arthas was not a member of the Alliance or even human anymore. He was an Undead, serving the Lick King who served the Legion.

And Garithos, while totally bigoted and dumb as fuck, had real reasons to hate the elves. His whole family died in the Second War while he was busy saving them, and then Quel'thalas threw a temper tantrum because the Alliance hadn't managed to stop the orcs before theyr burnt their forests.

But its easier to harp the "Arthas was a human prince" to explain why the Sin'dorei have sided with their oppressors.

No. I said that saying people who want to play High Elves to go play Blood Elves is like telling people wanting to play Free French to play Vichy. And the Blood Elves have aligned with the ones who slaughtered their families (Orcs and Undeads) over the Alliance. They have at least enabled to genocidal campaigns and ethnic cleansings of the Horde. They are far from pristine or even decent people.
@Cyanu

That's one of the most ridiculous take I've seen on the razing of Quel'thalas. Arthas was not a member of the Alliance or even human anymore. He was an Undead, serving the Lick King who served the Legion.

And Garithos, while totally bigoted and dumb as fuck, had real reasons to hate the elves. His whole family died in the Second War while he was busy saving them, and then Quel'thalas threw a temper tantrum because the Alliance hadn't managed to stop the orcs before theyr burnt their forests.

But its easier to harp the "Arthas was a human prince" to explain why the Sin'dorei have sided with their oppressors.

well the lore of warcraft which you seem to take very seriously is a little ridiculous, isn't it?

i kinda doubt that after what happened to the elves they care about Garithos' emotional state, or about whether it was Arthas himself or the whispers of the frostmourne or whatever

what they did care about is results: their homeland is destroyed, their people slaughtered and their allies failed to be of any use, to make matters worst instead of at least providing some form of aid even after the invasion (to help them rebuild)- or at the absolute rock bottom to make some sympathetic statement with empty promises, they don't even intend to keep!-they manage to get even lower than that: the alliance is openly insulting their leader with racist remarks about 'pointy ears' (ridiculous writing for sure but it happened nonetheless) and is not above in using the survivors for military purposes

in my above ridiculous example is like NATO(alliance) saying: ok we get it you lost like 90% of your population, but you'll still send troops to assist us in Iraq, right?

and the elves actually do, and what does the alliance does? it sends them on suicide missions and brands them traitors

the alliance even goes as far as attempting to execute a foreign faction leader?! that's beyond ridiculous, i have no words to describe it

and here i have you, saying that they shoud remain loyal to the alliance...

ffs man, let's just accept it's a game, games are meant to be absurd, better not to think about it too hard

[elbleuet]

Sure, same goes for garrosh and sylvanas then my man, then horde has done nothing wrong realy..

Last time I checked, Arthas wasn't leading Alliance troops when he butchered everyone.

Garrosh and Sylvanas were acting as Warchief of the Horde, and led Horde troops and Horde leaders (in the case of Sylvanas) in comitting 2 genocides.

[Domm530]

Horde can play as humans, they're dead and called Forsaken. Nice try though!

Ahye i forgot how u tottaly abandon multiple races of your own faction, wel you have void elves which spawns from high elves, have fun with it

[Soulwind]

Their have also been orcs and humans neutral to the opposing factions, should horde be able to play humans now? Cool story bruh

Probably, yes.

At some point they should detach playable races from factions. And I don't just mean Horde and Alliance, but specific factions. Why can't you play a human from Alterac? Or a troll from Stranglethorn? They're the same race as the playable ones, but they're unnecessarily tied to Stormwind and Darkspear.

Similarly, there are plenty of neutral organizations with members from all races. Mercenaries, pirates... hell, during Legion we've had a bunch of heroes that came together based on their classes instead of their race or origin.

So yes, if they don't do away with the Alliance vs Horde thing entirely, they should at least separate races from factions. Because, in the end, the playable characters are always a lot closer to neutral heroes such as Magni or Illidan, than they are to the armies of either faction.

[Domm530]

Last time I checked, Arthas wasn't leading Alliance troops when he butchered everyone.

Garrosh and Sylvanas were acting as Warchief of the Horde, and led Horde troops and Horde leaders (in the case of Sylvanas) in comitting 2 genocides.

Sure he was, just because rthey were undead doesnt automaticly not make then non alliance, they were part of the alliance and you people forsake them,


Thats true, kinda deserved it since alliance pretty much kills everything, now u got an excuse for making more naxi encampments and enslaving trolls and betraying your own kind

Both factions suck, lets create a new one lol

- - - Updated - - -

Probably, yes.

At some point they should detach playable races from factions. And I don't just mean Horde and Alliance, but specific factions. Why can't you play a human from Alterac? Or a troll from Stranglethorn? They're the same race as the playable ones, but they're unnecessarily tied to Stormwind and Darkspear.

Similarly, there are plenty of neutral organizations with members from all races. Mercenaries, pirates... hell, during Legion we've had a bunch of heroes that came together based on their classes instead of their race or origin.

So yes, if they don't do away with the Alliance vs Horde thing entirely, they should at least separate races from factions. Because, in the end, the playable characters are always a lot closer to neutral heroes such as Magni or Illidan, than they are to the armies of either faction.

I never understood why i cant just pick the race i want and represent the faction i would like; the faction war is such a façade these days

[elbleuet]

Sure he was, just because rthey were undead doesnt automaticly not make then non alliance, they were part of the alliance and you people forsake them,

So the mindless undeads of the Scourge, born by the will of the burning legion in order to eradicate all life on Azeroth were actually lovely Alliance members until the Alliance itself forsake them.


I advice you to play WIII and to open some Warcraft books. You don't have a clue of what you're talking about.

Thats true, kinda deserved it since alliance pretty much kills everything, now u got an excuse for making more naxi encampments and enslaving trolls and betraying your own kind

You have to thanks these "na*i encampments", otherwise the orcs wouldn't exist nowadays.

[Obelisk Kai]

Sure, lets disregard the fact that there are literally high elf NPCs in game alongside the void elves, indicating at least some level of cooperation/connection in the game's lore.



I appreciate your mostly-civil attempt at a counterpoint, but I don't feel like adding some minor cosmetic options based on high elves that are clearly working alongside void elves in the rift will cause any chunks of sky to fall.

Those are high elves and blood elves, not Void Elves. The entire point of a Void Elf is that they have been transformed by the void. Now, these wayfarers and scholars are eager to learn the ways and the void and I have no doubt that they are electing to become proper Void Elves in order to master that power, but they are as much Void Elves as T'Paartos was a lightforged Draenei before he underwent the ritual.
If wielding the powers of shadow was all it took to be a Void Elf, then every Blood Elf Shadow Priest and Subtlety Rogue is a Void Elf. As they aren't, there is more at play here than just wielding the void, it is taking the void into your very essence, hence a Void Elf.

If a roleplayer wishes to argue they are a high elf exile wayfarer who chose to become a full fledged Void Elf, that's perfectly reasonable and consistent with the lore. But Void Elves are purple for a reason, it's their own unique aesthetic.

[Aucald]

Those are high elves and blood elves, not Void Elves. The entire point of a Void Elf is that they have been transformed by the void. Now, these wayfarers and scholars are eager to learn the ways and the void and I have no doubt that they are electing to become proper Void Elves in order to master that power, but they are as much Void Elves as T'Paartos was a lightforged Draenei before he underwent the ritual.
If wielding the powers of shadow was all it took to be a Void Elf, then every Blood Elf Shadow Priest and Subtlety Rogue is a Void Elf. As they aren't, there is more at play here than just wielding the void, it is taking the void into your very essence, hence a Void Elf.

If a roleplayer wishes to argue they are a high elf exile wayfarer who chose to become a full fledged Void Elf, that's perfectly reasonable and consistent with the lore. But Void Elves are purple for a reason, it's their own unique aesthetic.

If I may be so bold as to speak for another user's post, I think the point was to elucidate on how there is a demonstrated in-game separation between the High Elven exiles present as "High Elf Wayfarer" NPC's and the Void Elven NPC's in Telogrus Rift. The presence of these distinct NPC's directly works against the idea of Void Elf customization functioning as an effective "High Elf RP" mode - the game already underscores a visible difference between the two sets of people, regardless of whether or not these Wayfarers are present to become Void Elves themselves.

[Domm530]

So the mindless undeads of the Scourge, born by the will of the burning legion in order to eradicate all life on Azeroth were actually lovely Alliance members until the Alliance itself forsake them.


I advice you to play WIII and to open some Warcraft books. You don't have a clue of what you're talking about.



You have to thanks these "nazi encampments", otherwise the orcs wouldn't exist nowadays.

They werent born they were twisting, the scourge was half filled with alliance of lorderaaon

Ps: dont use the word nazi encampment. I just gotten an infraction for it lol

[Delever]

I really enjoy the mouth fuming fiesta this has caused. Never have I seen a biggest circle jerk than the high elf community

[Obelisk Kai]

If I may be so bold as to speak for another user's post, I think the point was to elucidate on how there is a demonstrated in-game separation between the High Elven exiles present as "High Elf Wayfarer" NPC's and the Void Elven NPC's in Telogrus Rift. The presence of these distinct NPC's directly works against the idea of Void Elf customization functioning as an effective "High Elf RP" mode - the game already underscores a visible difference between the two sets of people, regardless of whether or not these Wayfarers are present to become Void Elves themselves.

If I am understanding your point correctly, and I am not sure I am, you are saying that the existence of the wayfarers precludes high elf like customisations allowing roleplayers to pretend to be high elves using void elves?

If that is the point you are making, I don't think their presence was necessary to preclude that. Void Elf emotes and racials are enough to shatter any pretense that the Void Elf is anything other than a Void Elf.

What the Wayfarers do is give roleplayers the option to play their Void Elf as someone who was once from the exiles should they so wish it, someone who has undergone the transformation to become a Void Elf. But becoming a Void Elf means accepting the Void Elf aesthetic that goes with it. But for those who claim that their goal is to play a thalassian elf who has always been loyal to the Alliance, they are already facilitated and a new aesthetic is not needed.

I am hopeful more information on this point will be found in the upcoming Shadowlands novel when we see events from Alleria's point of view.

[Aucald]

If I am understanding your point correctly, and I am not sure I am, you are saying that the existence of the wayfarers precludes high elf like customisations allowing roleplayers to pretend to be high elves using void elves?

If that is the point you are making, I don't think their presence was necessary to preclude that. Void Elf emotes and racials are enough to shatter any pretense that the Void Elf is anything other than a Void Elf.

What the Wayfarers do is give roleplayers the option to play their Void Elf as someone who was once from the exiles should they so wish it, someone who has undergone the transformation to become a Void Elf. But becoming a Void Elf means accepting the Void Elf aesthetic that goes with it.

I am hopeful more information on this point will be found in the upcoming Shadowlands novel when we see events from Alleria's point of view.

Precludes? No. Works against, I'd say "yes." Underscoring that a bit of suspension of narrative disbelief would already be in order to RP in this way (e.g. your mention of Void Elf racial abilities and so forth) - I'd say that for a large subset of RP'ers the presence of High Elven exiles in Telogrus Rift would be extremely immersion-breaking. Not all of them by any means, as there are some RP'ers happy to RP that their existing Blood Elf, Void Elf, or Human PC's are actually dragons in disguise or some such, but a significant camp all the same.

The ability to RP your Void Elf PC as a former High Elven exile was already present in the game as of the Void Elves introduction to WoW, but the main argument there would be that you're still very obviously playing a Void Elf PC and not a High Elven exile anymore. The "High Elf RP" option for Void Elves can only really work if the distinction between the two races is minimal (with the aforementioned suspension of disbelief in play) - too much immersion breaking distinction and the exercise becomes futile for most.

A further note here is that I speak as someone who doesn't really RP, so my take is based on people I've spoken to and discussed the topic with who do RP more seriously as well as how they feel about the various models already presented and discussed.

[Varodoc]

Bruh. Did I just read someone claim that Arthas and the undead army attacking Quel'thalas were Alliance-affiliated.

I am honestly done.

[elbleuet]

Bruh. Did I just read someone claim that Arthas and the undead army attacking Quel'thalas were Alliance-affiliated.

I am honestly done.

Yea you did.

[Aucald]

Bruh. Did I just read someone claim that Arthas and the undead army attacking Quel'thalas were Alliance-affiliated.

I am honestly done.

Yea you did.

I seem to be assuming a lot from posts here today, but I think it was supposed to be a Watsonian argument i.e. Arthas as opposed to a strictly Doylist one. There are Blood Elves in-game who blame the Alliance for Arthas' actions, as Arthas was a Human prince/king who fell to darkness and nearly destroyed Blood Elves' people and kingdom. Now, from a Doylist perspective we know this isn't the truth of the matter - Arthas was at that time a puppet of the Lich King's will and pretty far from being Alliance (as he and his converted people had all joined the Scourge, mind-controlled by the Lich King's will). But from the in-game perspective of Blood Elves harboring anti-Alliance sentiment, the argument can and has been made.

[Cyanu]

more like didn't bother to read but nvm...

hypothetical: Thrall's son, leaves the horde, gets corrupted by a demonic artifact and leading a burning legion army he razes SW to the ground and commits genocide against humans

what is the reaction of the surviving humans going to be? ok guys, let's stay calm here, he wasn't himself it was just the legion's influence, besides he was not really leding the horde at that time right? yeah, let's be open minded about this, it has nothing to do with him being an orc

that would be some impressive insight in a medieval setting, wouldn't it?

and that was just a tiny fraction of the reasons the elves have to leave the alliance

that said they had no reasons to join the horde at that time either, that came later due to lack of alternatives

ps: if you want to comment bother reading the entire post

[Varodoc]

I seem to be assuming a lot from posts here today, but I think it was supposed to be a Watsonian argument i.e. Arthas as opposed to a strictly Doylist one. There are Blood Elves in-game who blame the Alliance for Arthas' actions, as Arthas was a Human prince/king who fell to darkness and nearly destroyed Blood Elves' people and kingdom. Now, from a Doylist perspective we know this isn't the truth of the matter - Arthas was at that time a puppet of the Lich King's will and pretty far from being Alliance (as he and his converted people had all joined the Scourge, mind-controlled by the Lich King's will). But from the in-game perspective of Blood Elves harboring anti-Alliance sentiment, the argument can and has been made.

Then they should blame the Forsaken. Are they or are they not the Lordaeronian people who spawned Arthas and fell to the plague, thus becoming the very same undead that then marched on Quel'thalas?

[Aucald]

Then they should blame the Forsaken. Are they or are they not the Lordaeronian people who spawned Arthas and fell to the plague, thus becoming the very same undead that then marched on Quel'thalas?

The Forsaken came into existence after Arthas became a Death Knight and the Scourge had already rampaged Lordaeron proper. The Forsaken's creation requires Sylvanas to be undead, which occurred after the sacking of Quel'Thalas, after all the damage had been done. The undead who marched on Quel'Thalas were the Scourge.

Forsaken came into being from Scourge undead who were freed from the Lich King's control due to the damage done to the Frozen Throne by releasing Frostmoune, and they were rallied and named by the Banshee Sylvanas, who died in the Third War in Quel'Thalas.

[shoc]

After a decade, people still can't get it through their heads that Blood Elf is just a political label to describe High Elves in the Horde. Green, blue, yellow, whatever eyes doesn't really factor in anymore.

90% sure that Blizzard will just give Void Elves a fair-skinned option with tattoos a-la Alleria anyways.

[Varodoc]

The Forsaken came into existence after Arthas became a Death Knight and the Scourge had already rampaged Lordaeron proper. The Forsaken's creation requires Sylvanas to be undead, which occurred after the sacking of Quel'Thalas, after all the damage had been done. The undead who marched on Quel'Thalas were the Scourge.

Forsaken came into being from Scourge undead who were freed from the Lich King's control due to the damage done to the Frozen Throne by releasing Frostmoune, and they were rallied and named by the Banshee Sylvanas, who died in the Third War in Quel'Thalas.

But they are still Lordaeron. If people want to victim blame somebody they should pick the actual people from Lordaeron, not Stormwind that was literally two subcontinents away.