Official High Elf Discussion Megathread

[Manariel]

Out of curiosity, how did you gain the ability to decide facts about lore based solely on your likes and dislikes?

Out of curiosity, have you ever played Vanilla, WotLK, Cata and MOP Alliance content ?

Because if you had, you'd know that High Elves are pretty adamant that they aren't Blood Elves and had distinct zones, questings and vibes than their Blood Elven cousins. And my liking and disliking things has nothing to do with it.

That the last elves to call themselves High Elves are part of the Alliance is a fact.
That they despise and even loath the Blood Elves is a fact.
That such hatred stems from a political and ideological divide is also a fact.

[DeicideUH]

We should close this thread and move everyone to the Void Elf megathread once void elf get pink skin tones.

What megathread? Void elves don't have enough fans to make a mini-thread, much less a mega one.

[Varodoc]

What megathread? Void elves don't have enough fans to make a mini-thread, much less a mega one.

Can you pass me some salt, because you seem to have a lot.

[Mardux]

Nobody is interested in arguing semantics anymore, or regurgitating the same arguments ad nauseam. Like I said, I'll come back to rub your nose in those Void Elf customize options when they, like blood elves are receiving options to look like their faction leader, receive customize options to look like Alleria.

Are you sure? Cuz the people arguing against everything Obelisk has said (including when Obelisk agrees with them) have been pretty hell bent on trying to argue semantics. Most of the time they failed spectacularly, but they still get their participation trophies.

[Kallisto]

Those are fucking sin'dorei. BLOOD ELVES. I don't want those n**i-sympathisers. I want the Resistance, ie, the High Elves (Silver Covenant, the Lodges, etc.).

So you want people that are akin to a beaten partner coming back home to their abuser.

Garithos, Start Zone (Where their invasion and destruction of the defence sanctums would have wiped out an at the time fully neutral kingdom), Jaina. Need I go on how many times alliance and their sympathisers have basically shown Quel'thalas how little they think about the elves.

[elbleuet]

So you want people that are akin to a beaten partner coming back home to their abuser.

Garithos, Start Zone (Where their invasion and destruction of the defence sanctums would have wiped out an at the time fully neutral kingdom), Jaina. Need I go on how many times alliance and their sympathisers have basically shown Quel'thalas how little they think about the elves.

The Horde brought only wars and losses to the blood elves.
Them still being Horde in 2020 is purely because of gameplay.

And the blood elves helped the Horde to commit a genocide to other elves. Garithos is no longer an argument for them.

[Koryn123]

The Horde brought only wars and losses to the blood elves.
Them still being Horde in 2020 is purely because of gameplay.

And the blood elves helped the Horde to commit a genocide to other elves. Garithos is no longer an argument for them.

Ah yes, my favorite part of the Horde Campaign, when Sylvanas told everyone her plan to burn the tree ahead of time and they all rubbed their hands together, cackling that they'd be burning all the night elves alive, then twirled their mustaches.

[Kallisto]

The Horde brought only wars and losses to the blood elves.
Them still being Horde in 2020 is purely because of gameplay.

And the blood elves helped the Horde to commit a genocide to other elves. Garithos is no longer an argument for them.

No horde leader has singled out trying to kill the blood elves.

The old horde of Blackhand and Doomhammer is considered a different entity (blizzard own words) they don't count.
Garrosh war started by the alliance (Varian hate boner after wrathgate where he knew it wasn't the horde that attacked both sides)
Sylvanas war started by the alliance (If you think somehow there was a peace treaty between Gen's attack and burning of Teldrasil you're insane)

Meanwhile, the alliance of Lordaeron IS the same entity as now (again Blizzard own blue posts) have attacked Quel'thalas for their own.
Garithos was as the highest-ranked lord of Lordaeron known at the time was the leader of the alliance. His actions of "How dare you not die, time to be executed." strike one.
Blood Elf start zone when the dwarf was meant to be an ambassador to bring Quel'thalas into the alliance was actually a leader of an alliance invasion force that sabotaged the only defense against the scourge. Strike 2 for being a spy not an ambassador, strike 3 for actions that would obviously lead to the extinction of Thalassians who were at the time neutral. (The horde doesn't start helping until long after that point.).

Defending high elf is basically being kicked in the balls, have your teeth on the curb and stomped on twice and your reaction is "Thank you sir may i have another."

[Sett]

San'layn gone Alliance?

???

I meant existing NPCs probably getting some updates as well.

[elbleuet]

No horde leader has singled out trying to kill the blood elves.

The old horde of Blackhand and Doomhammer is considered a different entity (blizzard own words) they don't count.
Garrosh war started by the alliance (Varian hate boner after wrathgate where he knew it wasn't the horde that attacked both sides)
Sylvanas war started by the alliance (If you think somehow there was a peace treaty between Gen's attack and burning of Teldrasil you're insane)

Meanwhile, the alliance of Lordaeron IS the same entity as now (again Blizzard own blue posts) have attacked Quel'thalas for their own.
Garithos was as the highest-ranked lord of Lordaeron known at the time was the leader of the alliance. His actions of "How dare you not die, time to be executed." strike one.
Blood Elf start zone when the dwarf was meant to be an ambassador to bring Quel'thalas into the alliance was actually a leader of an alliance invasion force that sabotaged the only defense against the scourge. Strike 2 for being a spy not an ambassador, strike 3 for actions that would obviously lead to the extinction of Thalassians who were at the time neutral. (The horde doesn't start helping until long after that point.).

Defending high elf is basically being kicked in the balls, have your teeth on the curb and stomped on twice and your reaction is "Thank you sir may i have another."

Yeah. All of this sound like holidays for the blood elves compared to what the Night elves have endured. That's what I said. Garithos and whatever happened in their starting zone are no longer an argument. Definitely.

[Koryn123]

Yeah. All of this sound like holidays for the blood elves compared to what the Night elves have endured. That's what I said. Garithos and whatever happened in their starting zone are no longer an argument. Definitely.

Incompetent leadership from a guy who doesn't give a toss when Illidan and his naga murder 3-4 villages of night elves, tons of Maiev's watchers in the Tomb of Sargeras, or when Garrosh was invading Ashenvale, urging not to give in to hatred to Maiev in the first case and Leyara in the second, until the millisecond that it's his own loved one Tyrande who's in danger, and after her rescue, he says Illidan is fine to go? I dearly hope Malfurion visits the Shadowlands and encounters the souls of those people he didn't deem worthy of justice.

[Cien]

Blue elves for blood elves announced, amongst other customisations for them. Guess thats the nail in the coffin for a high elf lookalike on alliance even if we can't get the allied race/sub race/race itself? Low key devastated :'(

Mass faction changes inc! :P

[Obelisk Kai]

snip.

What he said was that the goal of the system was to give players more options regardless of lore, because explaining WHY these options were available would stop them from making clear why they were available. Instead, if a player requires an explanation as to why their character is such a way, they can headcanon one themselves.

This is what I have been saying. The options themselves do not require explanation, they are there simply because more options for customisation is good.

However, where your logic keeps falling down is you keep extending what is happening with Dwarves and Trolls, races whose 'other tribes/clans' are biologically identical to the currently existing options, to the Void Elves. After all, the previous question, which you didn't type out but which this is explicitly a clarification of, Dansuer confirmed that all the new customisations are consistent with the narrative. Nothing could be more inconsistent with the narrative than trying to pretend you are not the race you are playing as. In fact, this admission that this was even a criteria casts more doubt on the potential result of high elf like skin tones on Void Elves if they goal of such a customisation is to ignore the narrative entirely.

Void Elves are not equivalent to Sand Trolls or to Wildhammer Dwarves. Unlike those groups, whose origin is up to the player to decide, Void Elves have a defined origin, i.e they were blasted with void energies. Furthermore, unlike those who wish to pretend to be Wildhammer Dwarves and Sand Trolls, the Void Elf race itself will conspire via it's racials to continually remind you that you are a Void Elf.

[Dristereau]

I find the new Blood Elf black skins interesting, as it's nothing we've ever seen before in lore or otherwise. Wrathion in 8.3 obviously has this colouring but as a Dragon somewhat unrelated, but it's rather cool to see such drastic differences. I'm a little dissapointed we haven't seen a Dark Ranger option for Blood Elves, making them extremely pale and as though they could be ex Sylvanas loyalists.

With regards to Void Elves and High Elves, this takes Blood Elves in a different direction completely. It's extremely unlikely that Void Elves or High Elves would ever appear with black skin based on what we know of them (Void Elf blue and High Elf fantasy) so bringing in the pale fair haired High Elves as an Allied Race or Void Elf option would keep Blood Elves having their own uniqueness. As for eye colour, I don't mind Blood Elves having blue eyes, but it still doesn't give High Elf fans what they want as it still doesn't fit the fantasy of Alliance High Elves.

I've already gone over the lore enough; there's no lore reason why Alliance High Elves are not playable. They exist in more numbers than the Void Elves and have their own factions and strongholds. The reason they haven't been added is because Blizzard doesn't want to but that doesn't mean they shouldn't. I don't think Faction Identity is really a problem because of the models of the Void Elves and Blood Elves being the same; if both stood next to each other in full armour you wouldn't know the difference. I don't really think the vast majority of players would be in uproar if High Elves and Blood Elves both existed and looked similar but it's rather telling to me that two years on from this thread's creation and 780 pages and this debate is still going on about a race that has not been added.

[FlubberPuddy]

After all, the previous question, which you didn't type out but which this is explicitly a clarification of, Dansuer confirmed that all the new customisations are consistent with the narrative. Nothing could be more inconsistent with the narrative than trying to pretend you are not the race you are playing as. In fact, this admission that this was even a criteria casts more doubt on the potential result of high elf like skin tones on Void Elves if they goal of such a customisation is to ignore the narrative entirely.

Actually in the previous question Danuser answers that "nothing in these options being presented that I felt was out of bounds with the story we're trying to tell or the way we're trying to express it. It's really about giving players the most freedom possible rather than trying to tell some specific narrative about them, and really giving players the way to hopefully realize their characters that might've been in their head before and they weren't able to get it on the screen. Now they can get those things on screen. So that's what's really exciting for us.

I know there's people who are tripping up on some of the things, or asking questions about it or getting stuck on things. But this is something we want to happen, we want to be expressed in the world, we want Azeroth to feel like this place that has all these options in it and that your character is a great way to express those things."

As he emphasizes if you actually watched the interview instead of reading the short blurbs on wowhead, it's more about giving players freedom in their options rather than trying to get a specific narrative told.

Also

Void Elves are not equivalent to Sand Trolls or to Wildhammer Dwarves. Unlike those groups, whose origin is up to the player to decide, Void Elves have a defined origin, i.e they were blasted with void energies. Furthermore, unlike those who wish to pretend to be Wildhammer Dwarves and Sand Trolls, the Void Elf race itself will conspire via it's racials to continually remind you that you are a Void Elf.

From Danuser's own mouth: "..remember that it is your choice and your character..don't let anyone else tell you what your character can or can't be. You decide that."

So you can actually stop trying to force your opinion of a player's opinion about their own character. "Word of God" states the owner of such character defines that themselves.

[Koryn123]

My headcanon for the blue eyed elves living in Quel'thalas and identifying with the current Blood Elves is that they were high elf pilgrims from across Azeroth or possibly from Allerian Stronghold in Outland, come to the Sunwell to meet Captain Auric Sunchaser and see that Quel'thalas is at least halfway restored, they feel a greater kinship with the blood elves than they do dwarves or humans, and decide to live in Quel'thalas again, with some becoming adventurers who serve the Horde sometimes, as long as it's in the interests of Quel'thalas.

Auric Sunchaser strikes me as the best example of a high elf. He comes back from his long campaign in Outland, but rather than sanctimoniously going on and on about the Alliance and its human masters, he remains true to his duty to protect Quel'thalas and its people, even though his people are no longer part of the temporary team they used to be on, and seeing that the High Elf pilgrims had no voice, he elected to represent them himself and work to secure them a place in Quel'thalas where they belong. Nothing at all like Alleria or Vereesa (a grunt ranger who quit the Farstriders after her first mission and now calls herself a ranger-general, btw). Seems like of all the prominent high elf characters, Auric is the only one to put his people before a temporary team-up that was a means to protect his people. Alleria has it backwards.

I wouldn't be surprised if Auric and/or many of the high elf pilgrims decided that they'd rather live safe in Quel'thalas than sit as oddballs in human cities or be roped into Horde/Alliance conflicts all the time. I could easily see Auric and several high elves taking the name Blood Elves, and to prove their loyalty, helping to kill the undead and the trolls where any remain. Perhaps even taking it on themselves to rebuild some stuff in the Ghostlands. Without that, the High Elves are sort of like the guy who's happy to eat at the potluck without bringing anything, since none of them lifted a finger to save Quel'thalas, while the Blood Elves were the ones who gave all their blood, sweat, and tears into surviving there and reclaiming it. It'd be nice to have some group of uncorrupted elves return to the fold and show that some are willing to move on with their lives, rather than make their purpose be "I hate the blood elves and the Horde and that's literally it."

[FlubberPuddy]

And at the end of the day, the most essential takeaway is what Danuser reiterated twice:

They want Azeroth to be "a welcoming place with all those options out there" and for players to express themselves through their characters without anyone (or even the game) telling them who their character is.

Let me also remind everyone that we first heard of getting dark skin on Blood Elves from 'someone who spoke with a dev offstage'. And now they're here.

Ion also said offstage to someone that the door hasn't closed on High Elves on Alliance.

[Maxilian]

Why are you all attacking Helves fans? What have they done to all of you? Why is there so much toxicity? Yes, you won, and they lost. So what?

This thread is so old and so long, that they are many people invested in it, regardless of whatever their ultimate opinion on HE is. (Also is one of those really active threads in the last couple of days, so people just swarm here)

- - - Updated - - -

Blue elves for blood elves announced, amongst other customisations for them. Guess thats the nail in the coffin for a high elf lookalike on alliance even if we can't get the allied race/sub race/race itself? Low key devastated :'(

Mass faction changes inc! :P

I personally still don't see this as a full blown NO for HEs, in the end, they can just get new models, i mean... we have Nozdormu human form, that's a HE but its using the Night Elf skeleton, so i could see they just doing something like this sometime in the future, i don't expect it SOON but still...



Note: I'm not a Pro HE but that doesn't mean i think you should all lose hope. (Also they could even go with Half-elf in the future to add "HE" into the Alliance while also adding something new

[Frenchvince]

And at the end of the day, the most essential takeaway is what Danuser reiterated twice:

They want Azeroth to be "a welcoming place with all those options out there" and for players to express themselves through their characters without anyone (or even the game) telling them who their character is.

Let me also remind everyone that we first heard of getting dark skin on Blood Elves from 'someone who spoke with a dev offstage'. And now they're here.

Ion also said offstage to someone that the door hasn't closed on High Elves on Alliance.

Blizzard could borrow Mcdonald's slogan "come as you are".

It's too much, in fact, "come as you are but especially as you want to be in WOW".

[matrix123mko]

???

I meant existing NPCs probably getting some updates as well.

I joked. I think it is caused by high elves getting more diverse blue eye options. Before Shadowlands they had one single eye colour option.