You helfers are so cute hanging on to false hope. "They might be DK options", "Not everything is final". LMAO give me a break.
You helfers are so cute hanging on to false hope. "They might be DK options", "Not everything is final". LMAO give me a break.
Easily prove-able.
https://www.wowhead.com/news=311922/...ility-upgrades
3rd post down talks about how a lot of seem out-dated as some apply to things like Shaman's Vesper totem working with what was shown at Blizzcon but is not in the current showing of Shaman in the alpha. As well as Warrior's Sunder Arms showing as part of a Kyrian ability upgrade but warriors do not have Sunder Armor back in the alpha.
No one's concluding blue eyes won't happen. But it is true that what's being found right now may not all be included in the game. Same goes for the character customizations, many of which even wowhead dataminers are unsure of. You going to tell those professionals they're wrong?
- - - Updated - - -
So the datamined BE eyes and these High Elf ones are further differentiated. You can easily put one of those side by side with BE version of blue eyes and the sclera immediately gives it away.
Kind of like how fast people noticed Sylvanas's eyes aren't glowy red in her new datamined model. So essentially it is now easier to tell a High Elf apart from a Blood Elf.
Realistically some would. Just like realistically some people of the races in the opposite faction would side with the other. There's realistically some orcs/humans that are fine with each other and etc.
It's just gameplay restrictions that are holding those 'realities' from existing. Just like in the real world. Because this is a game.
For elves who always lived outside Quel'thalas and had no desire to live there, maybe, like many in Dalaran, and Vereesa, a grunt-rank ranger who quit the Farstriders after her first mission and later called herself a Ranger-General of her brute squad. I'm talking about the people who care enough that they want to visit the Sunwell and don't have ill will toward their people. People like Captain Auric who, despite his Alliance affiliation, didn't forget his duty to protect Quel'thalas and its people. Judging by Lor'themar's greeting to Alleria, he considers the elves from the Sons of Lothar to be heroes of Quel'thalas welcome to visit, as long as they're not a danger, like Alleria being a void monster.
It's not beyond the pale to assume that Auric is allowed to live there again and didn't care to spend the rest of his days living in Alliance lands, devoting himself to the king of a kingdom that was defunct at the time of the Alliance's founding when the elves joined (to protect Quel'thalas, not humanity), wasn't rebuilt until after they were trapped in Outland for a good long while, whose dad was just a kid when Auric left, which is now part of a group that are the current enemies of his people.
No doubt he wouldn't enjoy attacking Alliance, and I wouldn't expect him to, but he continues to act in the best interests of his people by ensuring the blue-eyed elves have a voice and are protected, as the high elf representative at the Sunwell.
Plenty of elves were merely refugees who loved living there, and now that Quel'thalas is no longer powered by fel for buildings and people aren't sucking mana from living things for survival, and the Horde is not run by Kil'jaeden, there's plenty of potential for them to feel a yearning for their old home.
Last edited by Koryn123; 2020-04-11 at 11:37 PM.
IMO the thing is that eye color is at most a correlation between BE and HE groups, but it was never the cause for them being different groups.
It makes as much sense that BE's have blue eyes now because some HE's are returning to Quel'thalas as to say that some High Elves now could have green eyes because some Blood Elves defected to the alliance. They are political positions, and eye color is not a requisite for that. Ultimately, the difference between High Elves and Blood Elves is ideological and cultural, and there are several things that have to be crossed over so one becomes the other.
Or is just that naturally occurring blue eyes are returning to Blood Elves and no High Elves are returning to QT. Kinda prefer the later because of all the times High Elves could have chosen to return en masse to QT, the wake of the Blood War feels like the worst possible time to believe their political differences aren't enough to be separated. Like, for me it makes more sense that some Blood Elves would defect the Horde because of the Blood War -as well as for tauren- not saying they would become alliance -although it would be a good reason to add more VE numbers- but it's hard to buy the alliance loyal HE's -or even the neutral Dalaran ones- deciding it's good time to go "for the horde."
Like I would personally like if we started to see neutral High Elves in Silvermoon and Quel'danas -like Auric- it just would be hard to buy they would fight for the horde -which is essentially what a playable BE has to do-
Maybe if there is ever a neutral way of playing the game I could buy it. But not on a post Blood War political climate.
I wouldn't mind the eyes being natural, but personally, I think uncorrupted elves choosing to go back home to Quel'thalas now that it's safe to do so would be more common than the pragmatic blood elves who did what was necessary to survive choosing to join the Alliance who'd hate them like crazy. Jaina didn't even trust Valeera who's never been Horde.
But you're right. After "The Fourth War" that I read so much about on my mission table, high elves would no doubt have heard stories from Alliance soldiers about horrible things done by the Horde under Sylvanas' orders and attribute that to the blood elves, since they're not all omniscient spectators of the story like we are.
Exactly; after this War the opinion of both factions should be very biased. We have npc's in Boralus talking about their frustration with the resolution as well as others ready to move on; it feels like the point is to show the alliance populace not being satisfied with the resolution and many still wanting to fight.
IMO It has always been hard to believe that High Elves that haven't already returned to QT would choose now to do so, nonetheless it feels far more likely after an expansion like say, Legion, where we all worked together -yet Vereesa and Alleria both still wanted to bring the BE's back to the alliance- than BfA where old and new wounds are now open.
Like Alliance aligned HE's returning to QT feels more unlikely than ever, and while the neutral ones of Dalaran have always felt like they could return if they wanted, now just seems like the worst time to do so with the Fourth War.
After a time-skip post Shadowlands though? I really wouldn't have an issue I think, but still doesn't help with us trying to figure up the reason for blue eyes now for SL, so I'm still gonna go with "Oh yeah them green eyes are getting cleansed back to blue because magic" all the explanation is that it just took a little longer than golden eyes.
I agree with this, it would be interesting. I mean you see Blood elf Sanguinaar in Stormwind, and the Thalassin elf situation is a bit complex,and there is enough to warrant seeing a few high elves in Silvermoon and Quel'danas, not to mention that despite being called Blood elf, there are a fair few number of these elves that actually lean a lot closer to the high elf mindset than the blood elf one.
I don't think they're the majority ofc, but they are not an insignificant number, and are largely the folk who've stayed around the city and not had to see the tougher choices their colleagues had or were forced to make.
I think that the possibility of a Thalassian reunification -under whatever name tbh- is possible in theory, but after the Fourth War it just seems more unlikely to be soon than ever; Only as of Legion Vereesa's resentment cooled down enough to think BE's can be redeemed -and return to the Alliance- and truly I don't see how there wouldn't be some regression after the Blood War. Like It's even hard to not see the BE's themselves making parallels between the Fall of Quel'thalas and The Burning of Teldrassil, but alliance and neutral High Elves would certainly not have the in-group bias to not see them.
It's just hard to believe that now, of all times, High Elves would decide to return in masse to QT. It just wouldn't ring true when it would had made sense for them to do so at any other time -honestly end of Legion would have been the perfect time-
As Vereesa puts it, the only issue for reunification for her is the BE's politics, and I really doubt the Blood War has made any reticent HE's now decide to go back to Quel'thalas.
Just thought I'd share another update that's tangentially related here.
For the past few days on r/wow (sorted by 'hot') there's been posts clamoring for customizations to Allied Races. On Stiven's datamining streams there's always people (he gets anywhere from ~1k-4k+ views) asking if there's any customization for Allied Races.
To me it's just as I said. It happened at the latest Blizzcon already (interviewers asking for increased customizations to AR) and continues now that core race customization is being shown.
It remains to be seen what customizations Void Elves will get when their time comes (probably 2+ years from now lmao with the other AR), but here, official forums, twitter, reddit, youtube. Almost every social media platform VE players are asking for fair skins/to look like Alleria and non-VE players are suggesting a couple fair skins on VEs while blue eyes go to BE to 'finally end the debate and let both sides be happy'.
You don't even have to try to go searching, it's that blatant. It puts the ball in Blizzard's court pretty much.

Genuinely curious, what immersive play experiences do you think I've gotten as a Horde player that you haven't as an Alliance player? Because from my end, it looks like nothing my character does actually matters because at the end of the day, the Alliance is going to win everything for two reasons:
1) Blizz always writes us our leaders into uncompromising monster bad guys who just want to destroy the Alliance and leave everyone dead, so there's never an outcome where we can win anything real.
2) Alliance players consider their wonderful characters / racist hero faction losing to be a travesty and write three paragraph essays on the topic whenever it happens.

That is the logical outcome of your interpretation, that there are no barriers to what can be placed onto available races. This is the basis for your high elf skins on Void Elf request after all. Dark Iron Dwarf skins and Mag'har Orc skins are conspicuously absent from the customisation options being given to Dwarves and Orcs respectively.
You attempt to draw a distinction between why those skins aren't available and the Void Elves because the aesthetic you desire on the Void Elves happens to be on the other faction, whereas the Dark Iron Dwarf and Mag'har Orc skins are on the same faction as their parent races. Which is of course a terrible distinction, given the entire reason Void Elves exist as they do was to differentiate them from Blood Elves. It's akin to saying the forty metre tall and forty metre thick wall in front of you is actually a motorway to your destination.
And it is worth pointing out that none of the options presented to Moorgard violated canon. That none did is not the point. What matters is that he was specifically asked. Whilst they are clearly prepared to facilitate a great degree of player latitude in how they headcanon their character, some things ARE beyond the pale. Such as pretending your ordinary Orc is Mag'har or that your Dwarf is Dark Iron. If lore wasn't a consideration, he wouldn't have been asked. Nothing that has been added so far violates lore. And nothing was offered that could have violated lore.
What he says was correct. Where you fall down is that you expect everyone else to take that decision seriously. He is not saying they support your choices. He is saying they don't care, you do you. BUT he is also saying in that in relation to the changes he approved, which form the context of the question. The Wildhammer Dwarf skins, the Forest Troll skins etc.
For the most part, these changes are inoffensive. Who would object to a Dwarf declaring they are wildhammer or a Troll declaring they are descended from or related to the Sandfury? Nobody. These examples don't violate the overall lore.
But some things do violate lore and would not be accepted. Which of course brings us to the specific case vexing you, your desire to be a Void Elf who can pretend to be a high elf. That is not something that can be accepted because a Void Elf is, by nature, a transformed high elf. It would be akin to a lightforged draenei arguing they aren't lightforged, or a Nightborne arguing they are in fact a pure Night Elf.
Now, if players are insistent on roleplaying that, then what Danuser said is correct. It's entirely up to you how you rationalise away everything about your avatar that will continually remind you that your chosen fantasy is actually inconsistent with what you've selected in a way that Dwarf and Trolls fans won't have to engage with. But any Void Elf player who attempts to argue that they aren't a high elf will be stretching things too far to be taken seriously beyond themselves and those who chose to humour them.
And that is where that reality exists, in the player's head. Where the game agrees, that fantasy can now be expressed within the game. But if you choose a story for your character at odds with what your avatar is well, that's up to the individual to suffer through it.
And let's be honest, it's your particular idea that is driving this particular debate. They made Void Elves different for a reason. And just because some Void Elf players still hanker for the ability to look like a Blood Elf you somehow expect the rationale that led to the creation of the Void Elves in the first place to be ignored.
Even were they to facilitate your request exactly with something that isn't a monkey-paw and provide you with an option that left you indistinguishable from a blood elf, you would still be playing a Void Elf. What is the next step then? New racials that aren't Void themed? New emotes that don't remind you that you are a Void Elf? No reverb on the emotes because that is a by-product of the void? The 'need' for a Void Elf Paladin despite the fact that such a race-class combination is a contradiction?
Frank bias? Only one of us has engaged in a serial disconnect with reality over the years. Need I remind you that your reaction to the Void Elf announcement in 2017 was to argue, without a hint of doubt, that the reason Ion said 'Blood Elves are High Elves' next to Jesse Cox was because they didn't want to rain on the Void Elves big reveal day and that high elves would clearly come later. You kept that particular line going for months as I recall because the simpler truth was too much to handle.
Historically you have done everything possible to avoid the truth. They considered high elves as an allied race. They determined high elves and Blood Elves were identical. They created Void Elves as a compromise to give the Alliance a thalassian elf model without giving them a duplicate of a core horde race. And they consider giving them a duplicate of a core horde race a devaluation of the factions they went out of their way to assert the importance of at the last Blizzcon.
Increased customisations are not a license to junk everything that went before. They are not a blank page. This is not a year zero. It is possible to offer advanced customisations to existing races without junking the rationale that led to the creation of Void Elves. It is possible to expand Void Elf customisations without turning them into ersatz high elves. As for your points.
1.) Beta isn't finished yet, but how blue eyes are depicted is currently wildly inconsistent and it would be beneficial if things were standardised. If not, that the blue eyes on some exiles in older content isn't up to the same level as the blue eyes Blood Elves are potentially getting is irrelevant. What are you going to argue, that high elves are different from blood elves because blood elf blue eyes are a slightly different shade than the eye colour used by some exiles? You aren't scraping the barrel there, you have scraped through the barrel, through the foundation of the building the barrel was in, down through layers of soil and are approaching bedrock. If Blood Elves get blue eyes, then that's it for the eye colour argument. It's gone.
2/5.) The same point and as Blizzard has shown they aren't willing to cross some lines just because the player base wants them to. If they were ever going to give the Alliance High Elves, it was going to be as an Allied race and it was going to be instead of Void Elves. Void Elves are as big a barrier to the exiles being an allied race as Blood Elves are after all. And if 99% of Void Elf players (absolute hyperbole) want that badly to look like a high elf, the Horde is waiting for them as Ion said.
3.) Danuser said you do you, not you do you and if people point out you aren't what you say you are in game please open a ticket to report them.
He also said none of the options presented to him violated canon, so you doing you with these options isn't an issue because it is perfectly consistent with the game world. Nobody is arguing over what Danuser said, we are arguing over our interpretations, because you seemingly believe what he said means there are no limits whereas the fact he was asked to judge whether certain selections could violate canon implies there are certain options they won't give for being beyond the pale.
4.) No, the most feasible way as an Allied race before Void Elves existed. High Elf like skins on a Void Elf won't be a high elf, it will be a Void Elf. The racials for Trolls are Dwarves are agnostic, they are race wide. Void Elf racials establish you as a Void Elf, no matter how you look.
6.) Ion said high elves were possible as a sub-race when asked in 2013...and then he sat down and thought about. Afrasiabi said it was merely possible, then segued into a commentary on the dumpster fire of a debate it is on the general forums. Possible is not a promise. Possible is not even probable. Possible is possible. And what you end up getting may not be what you wanted.
Last edited by Obelisk Kai; 2020-04-12 at 10:16 AM.
https://youtu.be/u7jAJjcKoQY
For the blood elves, there are already 25 personalizations that are already dataminated on the 40 announced.
- 12 colors for the eyes (several shades of green and gold, with a glassy white eye on the right or on the left)
- 3 hair colors
- 4 skin colors
- 6 body jewelry for women
They only have 15 customizations left to share between men and women (hairstyles, head jewelry, scar?, Make up? and facial hair?)
I think the rest will be put in hairstyles and jewelry because they really need it.
Overall we can say that Blizzard respects the identity of the factions.
For one, when Ely Cannon made the statement about "40 additional customization options," he said over 40. Beyond that, you're overreaching on the idea that that initial estimate would be the final number in the first place, especially if we're talking about slightly different tints for eye colors. That's not to say that it's confirmed that blood elves are getting the options you want to be reserved for the Alliance, but none of the evidence that you're using to back this up is confirmed on its own, let alone altogether.