1. #15141
    Old God Syegfryed's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Shadowtwili View Post
    Just saying that according to Blizzard, all the humans (Kul Tiran, Gilnean, Stormwindian, skinny Kul Tiran) are biologically the same. I have no idea what you're trying to say with that Kul Tirans are a different breed.
    im saying is, just because they are the same race, they don't need to be the same thing.

    the race or specie in biology is the same, yes, but there are different subraces/subspecies or breeds within the same specie/race, sometimes those breeds and species/subraces are very different from each other.

    you could find lizards of the same specie totally different in color, marks patterns and even texture or size, those would be called subspecies, but they are the same and could breed between then.

    Same thing with Dogs, a lot of dogs are totally different from each other, like a pitbull and a chihuahua or other examples, they are the same specie, but NOT the same thing, hence, not the same breed.

    This example applies to the kul'tiran case, Kul'tirans humans and other humans are the same race, but not the same thing, they are different breeds of the same race, a normal human cannot became a kul'tiran with push-ups, a kul'tiran cannot become a human with a diet, those things are from birth, they being the same race they can breed with themselves.

    thats why using they as a factor in their pro agenda, like they are the same thing is completely bananas.

    Even more when we have the unconfirmed theory of those kul'tirans having drust blood, since they joined kul'tirans society, that would explain their half-giant size and strength and why just those humans can be druids and hear the call of the drust of old, but, the pro-side like to shut down this because it would hurt their narrative, its only permitted when help their side.
    Last edited by Syegfryed; 2020-03-20 at 01:59 PM.

  2. #15142
    Quote Originally Posted by Ielenia View Post
    Which is, simply put, irrelevant. Because the high elves have existed since before WoW, and have been part of the Alliance since then, and yet it was the void elves that got the ticket... and have shown to be nothing special at all, despite all the promises of "stories to tell" that amounted to absolutely nothing.

    If the void elves could do something the high elves cannot, or had any kind of story to tell that the high elves couldn't, it'd be fine to justify their existence. But they don't.
    Not disagreeing with the stance that High Elves make sense as a playable race on the Alliance. Just wanted to point out that no, High Elves have not always been a part of the Alliance.

    Their leadership defected during the third war because of the atrocities of Garithos and explicitly declared they were no longer a part of the Alliance, this can all be seen as part of the campaign in WC3: TFT. Those that are friendly to the Alliance now are those that were in Dalaran as part of the Silver Covenant the whole time and weren't their to witness those things. The ones that left Silvermoon because they didn't agree with the renaming of their race to Blood Elves likely wouldn't go back to the Alliance after the shit they went through, they're just splinter groups living out their lives away from all this faction war mess.

    IF they were to ever allow Alliance aligned High Elves a playable race, lore wise, they would have to be from the Silver Covenant to make much sense in the lore. But I would support that, because it DOES make sense.

  3. #15143
    Dreadlord Ardenaso's Avatar
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    I guess the way to make High Elves distinct is to make the playable character be a young adult High Elf, just as how Kul Tirans were made fat to be distinct with Stormwindians

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by Katchii View Post
    Not disagreeing with the stance that High Elves make sense as a playable race on the Alliance. Just wanted to point out that no, High Elves have not always been a part of the Alliance.

    Their leadership defected during the third war because of the atrocities of Garithos and explicitly declared they were no longer a part of the Alliance, this can all be seen as part of the campaign in WC3: TFT. Those that are friendly to the Alliance now are those that were in Dalaran as part of the Silver Covenant the whole time and weren't their to witness those things. The ones that left Silvermoon because they didn't agree with the renaming of their race to Blood Elves likely wouldn't go back to the Alliance after the shit they went through, they're just splinter groups living out their lives away from all this faction war mess.

    IF they were to ever allow Alliance aligned High Elves a playable race, lore wise, they would have to be from the Silver Covenant to make much sense in the lore. But I would support that, because it DOES make sense.
    plus those at the Kalimdor Brigade, Draenor Expedition, and the Highvale.
    Lightbound Orcs > High Elves https://www.mmo-champion.com/threads...ace-suggestion

    Blizzard should realize that Alteraci Humans will fulfill the Young Adult Dystopia Anarchy fantasy for Warcraft

  4. #15144
    Quote Originally Posted by Aldefard Aelfwine View Post
    Okay, thank you for the tweet you provided.Now I'm ready to believe that the blizzard think the pandarens are some kind of mistake.

    But also in response, I will say that the employees of Blizzard (in particular Alex Afrasiabi) do not exclude that the appearance of high elves can be added for void elves. He said this to the lost Codex YouTube channel during BlizzCon 2018.

    Q: Any future customisation coming to void elves to bring them closer to the high elf fantasy?

    Response Alex Afrasiabi: Yes there's always a chance, don't give up hope, but just be respectful and you make your post.


    What do you think about it?
    Well, I hope that "this chance" will be available in shadowlands! That's good, since there will be new customization options.
    Last edited by Frenchvince; 2020-03-20 at 07:11 PM.

  5. #15145
    Legendary! Obelisk Kai's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Aldefard Aelfwine View Post
    Okay, thank you for the tweet you provided.Now I'm ready to believe that the blizzard think the pandarens are some kind of mistake.

    But also in response, I will say that the employees of Blizzard (in particular Alex Afrasiabi) do not exclude that the appearance of high elves can be added for void elves. He said this to the lost Codex YouTube channel during BlizzCon 2018.

    Q: Any future customisation coming to void elves to bring them closer to the high elf fantasy?

    Response Alex Afrasiabi: Yes there's always a chance, don't give up hope, but just be respectful and you make your post.


    What do you think about it?
    It's been debated to death here already.

    The only reason I give credence to the possibility of high elf like skins on Void Elves is because he said here it was possible. Were it not for that I would entirely discount it given that the entire reason they gave Void Elves blue skins was to visually differentiate them from blood/high elves and to go back on that would seem ungodly stupid.

    Frankly the fact he pivoted to forum behaviour so quickly suggests to me that what the devs know of the high elf request is that it's a complete dumpster fire of a topic and that what they know of threads seems to be that they quickly devolve into never ending flame wars and that, to put it mildly, it was a request for decorum and for pro high elfers to nicely phrase their requests so that their CMs can great break.

    For me, the most telling thing is that before they considered the sub-race system fully, Ion Hazzikostas was the one who off handedly suggested high elves as a race they could add in that system. Once that system came out, you had Void Elves. In other words, once they sat down and thought things through, they realised they couldn't add a duplicate of an existing race to the game. Similarly, when they sit down and think through expanding Void Elf customization, I belive the same thought processes that led them to create Void Elves in the first place will ensure they don't turn Void Elves into ersatz high elves...or they'll result in some monkey paw result so you'd wished you never asked.
    Originally Posted by Blizzard Entertainment
    "If you want to be a fair skinned, light haired, blue eyed elf...sorry, the horde is there waiting for you"

    -Game Director Ion Hazzikostas

  6. #15146
    Quote Originally Posted by Obelisk Kai View Post
    It's been debated to death here already.

    The only reason I give credence to the possibility of high elf like skins on Void Elves is because he said here it was possible. Were it not for that I would entirely discount it given that the entire reason they gave Void Elves blue skins was to visually differentiate them from blood/high elves and to go back on that would seem ungodly stupid.

    Frankly the fact he pivoted to forum behaviour so quickly suggests to me that what the devs know of the high elf request is that it's a complete dumpster fire of a topic and that what they know of threads seems to be that they quickly devolve into never ending flame wars and that, to put it mildly, it was a request for decorum and for pro high elfers to nicely phrase their requests so that their CMs can great break.

    For me, the most telling thing is that before they considered the sub-race system fully, Ion Hazzikostas was the one who off handedly suggested high elves as a race they could add in that system. Once that system came out, you had Void Elves. In other words, once they sat down and thought things through, they realised they couldn't add a duplicate of an existing race to the game. Similarly, when they sit down and think through expanding Void Elf customization, I belive the same thought processes that led them to create Void Elves in the first place will ensure they don't turn Void Elves into ersatz high elves...or they'll result in some monkey paw result so you'd wished you never asked.
    The second reason is simply to avoid having two races of Thalassian elves in the alliance so as not to make the horde cry ...

    So giving the high-elf option in customizing the void elves is a good solution for everyone after all.

  7. #15147
    Bloodsail Admiral Aldo Hawk's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Syegfryed View Post
    im saying is, just because they are the same race, they don't need to be the same thing.

    the race or specie in biology is the same, yes, but there are different subraces/subspecies or breeds within the same specie/race, sometimes those breeds and species/subraces are very different from each other.

    you could find lizards of the same specie totally different in color, marks patterns and even texture or size, those would be called subspecies, but they are the same and could breed between then.

    Same thing with Dogs, a lot of dogs are totally different from each other, like a pitbull and a chihuahua or other examples, they are the same specie, but NOT the same thing, hence, not the same breed.

    This example applies to the kul'tiran case, Kul'tirans humans and other humans are the same race, but not the same thing, they are different breeds of the same race, a normal human cannot became a kul'tiran with push-ups, a kul'tiran cannot become a human with a diet, those things are from birth, they being the same race they can breed with themselves.

    thats why using they as a factor in their pro agenda, like they are the same thing is completely bananas.

    Even more when we have the unconfirmed theory of those kul'tirans having drust blood, since they joined kul'tirans society, that would explain their half-giant size and strength and why just those humans can be druids and hear the call of the drust of old, but, the pro-side like to shut down this because it would hurt their narrative, its only permitted when help their side.
    Kul'tiran humans are humans pal, don't matter how much you want to sprinkle it
    Quote Originally Posted by Obelisk Kai View Post
    Page 700. How depressing.

  8. #15148
    Quote Originally Posted by Ardenaso View Post
    plus those at the Kalimdor Brigade, Draenor Expedition, and the Highvale.
    The Kalimdor brigade was essentially annihilated since the vast majority of it's members ended up settling in Theramore Isle, which was obliterated by the mana bomb. There might be surviving High Elves, but they wouldn't be a population you could feasibly create a playable race from as they were basically non-combatants to begin with.

    The Draenor Expedition is presumed annihilated or captured by the Legion, or otherwise unknown, as they used a portal to escape Draenor and were caught by the Legion when they did so and haven't been heard from since aside from Turalyon and Alleria.

    Highvale, Quel'danil Lodge, is true but are mostly removed from the faction conflict and aren't really "Alliance forces" that would be drawn from in war and are just an Alliance aligned settlement in the Hinterlands.

    You're correct, these three groups would still be/ are friendly to the Alliance. I was only intending on mentioning a group that is friendly to the Alliance and also significant enough to plausibly be used as a source for a playable race. The three groups listed don't really fit that criteria.

  9. #15149
    Scarab Lord Geisl's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Frenchvince View Post
    The second reason is simply to avoid having two races of Thalassian elves in the alliance so as not to make the horde cry ...

    So giving the high-elf option in customizing the void elves is a good solution for everyone after all.
    They've also stated that Allied Races are not the sub-race system, which we have evidence for as we see Kul Tirans, Zandalari, Nightborne, and Vulpera as examples of AR that are not a "sub-race" to any existing race for which faction they're on.

    Consequentially, the increased customizations coming in Shadowlands can be considered "sub-races" as that's what the conventionally accepted definition of sub-races was within the playerbase: extra customization to existing races so that one can play their "wildhammer dwarf" for instance within the Dwarf race.

    Thus, given that we're getting an actual sub-race system now, we may see Void Elves receiving those High Elf options once Allied Races get their turn in receiving increased customization options.
    Last edited by Geisl; 2020-03-23 at 05:00 PM.

  10. #15150
    Maybe they should just give Void Elves an option to purge their void corruption (maybe attach it to a small quest idk) to switch their appearance to resemble High Elves again. That way they wouldn't have to make a "new race" and could satisfy the players who want to play regular Alliance High Elves.

  11. #15151
    Quote Originally Posted by Ielenia View Post
    But they are high elves. They identify as such, and don't identify as blood elves.
    If the Lorthermar all of a sudden decreed that blood elves will now call themselves high elves again your argument would fall flat on its face.

    Blood elves did not become a new race when they changed their name. It was a simple decree in honor of their fallen. They never stopped being our high elves. Should they decree, they could rename themselves to high elves again.
    Blood elves are our high elves - Chris Metzen

  12. #15152
    Quote Originally Posted by Nerovar View Post
    Maybe they should just give Void Elves an option to purge their void corruption (maybe attach it to a small quest idk) to switch their appearance to resemble High Elves again. That way they wouldn't have to make a "new race" and could satisfy the players who want to play regular Alliance High Elves.
    Or they could even make it an "ascended" Void Elf type of deal, where they learn how to control their own void corruption levels like Alleria. But they would still be beneath her in control, as they wouldn't be able to enter Entropic Embrace on demand like she can (since it would happen randomly still).

  13. #15153
    Quote Originally Posted by Frenchvince View Post
    So giving the high-elf option in customizing the void elves is a good solution for everyone after all.
    That would A) make the void elves less "voidy", a theme of which the race is based on, and B) would only make them more like blood elves visually... which defeats the purpose of making void elves visually different in the first place.
    Blood elves are our high elves - Chris Metzen

  14. #15154
    Scarab Lord Geisl's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by FossilFree View Post
    Or they could even make it an "ascended" Void Elf type of deal, where they learn how to control their own void corruption levels like Alleria. But they would still be beneath her in control, as they wouldn't be able to enter Entropic Embrace on demand like she can (since it would happen randomly still).
    That's a pretty cool lore explanation for it.

  15. #15155
    Legendary! Obelisk Kai's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Strippling View Post
    That would A) make the void elves less "voidy", a theme of which the race is based on, and B) would only make them more like blood elves visually... which defeats the purpose of making void elves visually different in the first place.
    Which is the conclusion I suspect the developers will rapidly arrive at once they sit down and try and hash out what new Void Elf customization will look like. Many of them may have deja vu in fact as they recall why they went with Void Elves over the exiles in the first place.
    Originally Posted by Blizzard Entertainment
    "If you want to be a fair skinned, light haired, blue eyed elf...sorry, the horde is there waiting for you"

    -Game Director Ion Hazzikostas

  16. #15156
    Quote Originally Posted by Strippling View Post
    If the Lorthermar all of a sudden decreed that blood elves will now call themselves high elves again your argument would fall flat on its face.
    IF that happens. It hasn't happened, and doesn't look like it'll happen anytime soon. Until then, that's a meaningless statement to make, that makes it sounds like you're trying to have the last word.
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  17. #15157
    Bloodsail Admiral Aldo Hawk's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Strippling View Post
    If the Lorthermar all of a sudden decreed that blood elves will now call themselves high elves again your argument would fall flat on its face.

    Blood elves did not become a new race when they changed their name. It was a simple decree in honor of their fallen. They never stopped being our high elves. Should they decree, they could rename themselves to high elves again.
    What if, what if not...



    What if they announce High elves next expansion's patch.

    What if, what the fuck if.

    Please stay on point instead of staying on mediocre antagonism
    Quote Originally Posted by Obelisk Kai View Post
    Page 700. How depressing.

  18. #15158
    Quote Originally Posted by Ielenia View Post
    IF that happens. It hasn't happened, and doesn't look like it'll happen anytime soon. Until then, that's a meaningless statement to make, that makes it sounds like you're trying to have the last word.
    You have constantly harped on that high elves are not playable because there is no race named "high elf" in the character creation screen. If blood elves were simply to decree that they will now call themselves high elves again, then there would be a "high elf" named race in the character selection screen all of a sudden...yet nothing would have changed about the race except their new name, they'd still be the same elves. So, when the game and the game directors define blood elves as OUR high elves, its a clear message that the high elf race is not defined by some small fractured group on the alliance but by the main high elven society who are allied with the Horde.

    Of course, this may be too nuanced for you to comprehend. Likewise for Aldo.

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by Obelisk Kai View Post
    Which is the conclusion I suspect the developers will rapidly arrive at once they sit down and try and hash out what new Void Elf customization will look like. Many of them may have deja vu in fact as they recall why they went with Void Elves over the exiles in the first place.
    Exactly. De-voiding void elves will only make them more like blood elves. Blizzard are highly unlikely to do that, given they made them different in the first place.
    Blood elves are our high elves - Chris Metzen

  19. #15159
    Scarab Lord Geisl's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Strippling View Post
    Exactly. De-voiding void elves will only make them more like blood elves. Blizzard are highly unlikely to do that, given they made them different in the first place.
    Given that High Elf customization is asked for unanimously even amongst Void Elf fans and given the precedent with variance coming with increased customizations (aka Trolls no longer have to stay blue, dwarves no longer have to stay fair-skinned/charcoal, undead no longer have to be pale, etc) I don't really see how a form of High Elf customization doesn't come to Void Elves other than if Blizzard absolutely does not allow increased customizations on Allied Races.

    Which I highly doubt since they were already asked about it multiple times after the reveal of increased customizations ("Will these increased customizations come to Allied Races?") and they've said for the moment it's just going to be the core races.

    And btw, just because a race was intentionally made with a certain aesthetic does not mean it can't be changed. Orcs have had bent backs for incredibly long time despite players continually asking for them to have straight backs. The common argument back then used to be "the silhouette is part of the race, if you wanna play straight backs then go play humans".

    Look at how dead in the dirt that is now, as it was always presumed to be by many in the playerbase - not just those who eagerly wanted straight-back orcs customization.
    Last edited by Geisl; 2020-03-25 at 05:50 AM.

  20. #15160
    Quote Originally Posted by Strippling View Post
    You have constantly harped on that high elves are not playable because there is no race named "high elf" in the character creation screen. If blood elves were simply to decree that they will now call themselves high elves again, then there would be a "high elf" named race in the character selection screen all of a sudden...yet nothing would have changed about the race except their new name, they'd still be the same elves. So, when the game and the game directors define blood elves as OUR high elves, its a clear message that the high elf race is not defined by some small fractured group on the alliance but by the main high elven society who are allied with the Horde.
    And it doesn't matter. Because nothing would change. The pro-high-elf players would still want to play as the high elf faction already existing within the Alliance, even if Blizzard decided to rename the blood elves "high elves". And there would still have a faction of high elves that is part of the Alliance. At worst, the pro-high-elf players would start calling them 'Silver Covenant' high elves.

    Of course, this may be too nuanced for you to comprehend. Likewise for Aldo.
    And, also of course, civil conversation may be too hard for you, if you must resort to veiled insults.
    I did a Necromancer thing. Check it out! All feedback welcome!
    Update 08/17: I changed how the Bone spec's golem mechanic works, as well as some other minor changes.
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