1. #15281
    This is why I tell you that they are still alive, the Icecrown zone will be updated and the NPCs too, so the faction The Silver Covenant is still current.

    The Argent tournament 2.0 as a Shadowlands pre-patch, Ca would be too cool

  2. #15282
    Legendary! Obelisk Kai's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Frenchvince View Post
    This is why I tell you that they are still alive, the Icecrown zone will be updated and the NPCs too, so the faction The Silver Covenant is still current.

    The Argent tournament 2.0 as a Shadowlands pre-patch, Ca would be too cool
    So the story continues is Blizzard duplicating a handful of NPCs who will stand in the same corner of the zone they've always stood in and likely do nothing?

  3. #15283
    Quote Originally Posted by Obelisk Kai View Post
    So the story continues is Blizzard duplicating a handful of NPCs who will stand in the same corner of the zone they've always stood in and likely do nothing?
    And at least we have proof that they are still there, that there are always high elves living from the faction The Silver Covenant. they are not all dead as you keep saying in I do not know how many messages.

  4. #15284
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    Quote Originally Posted by Frenchvince View Post
    And at least we have proof that they are still there, that there are always high elves living from the faction The Silver Covenant. they are not all dead as you keep saying in I do not know how many messages.
    Not sure how finding a literal handful proves that wrong though?

  5. #15285
    Mechagnome Thalassian Bob's Avatar
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    It'd be nice if those datamined Silver Covenant NPCs, after staring death in face, feel like they need to reach out to Umbric and Alleria and take the void plunge to better protect themselves from such otherworldly powers. Then we'd have explicitly high elven originating Ren'dorei and we could put this whole thing to bed.

  6. #15286
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    Quote Originally Posted by Thalassian Bob View Post
    It'd be nice if those datamined Silver Covenant NPCs, after staring death in face, feel like they need to reach out to Umbric and Alleria and take the void plunge to better protect themselves from such otherworldly powers. Then we'd have explicitly high elven originating Ren'dorei and we could put this whole thing to bed.
    This can be the way to open up more fair skin options to Void Elves. Since the way these guys would become Void Elves isn't some rogue Ethereal trying to force them into it.

  7. #15287
    Mechagnome Thalassian Bob's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Pennem View Post
    This can be the way to open up more fair skin options to Void Elves. Since the way these guys would become Void Elves isn't some rogue Ethereal trying to force them into it.
    Quite possibly! I'd be happy with those mottled fan skins for my mage (I would have always been happy with just a dirty blonde hair colour option)!

  8. #15288
    Quote Originally Posted by Aucald View Post
    Well, Arthas wasn't "possessed" by Ner'zhul - although he was under Ner'zhul's control via Frostmourne. Ner'zhul at that point wasn't an Orc anymore, either; torture and transformation at the hands of Kil'jaeden had turned him into the first Lich, albeit one sealed into the cask of nether ice that became known as the Frozen Throne. Blizzard also didn't put anything in as any form of after-the-fact justification or change, the Lich King Ner'zhul and Arthas' fate with Frostmourne were all part of the story of WC3 and WC3: TFT back in 2002-2003. That is the story of the original WC3 games.
    I'm talking about the dwarf ambassador and spies those were put in as post justification to push the blood elves towards the horde.

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    Quote Originally Posted by TheLoadbearer View Post
    I'm talking about the elves who, when Kael'thas ordered all elves across Azeroth to come to Quel'thalas so they could re-consolidate their numbers and secure their homeland, decided that Quel'thalas was over and just remained in Stormwind, Dalaran, etc. There's also the matter of the elves who refused to suck arcane magic from mana constructs and mana worms (fel didn't come until later, and wasn't directly consumed by many outside of Outland, but the corruption was spread like radiation because the various magical buildings in Quel'thalas were now fueled by fel magic from Outland).

    If you're in the trenches of WW1 and need all hands on deck, and everyone is exhausted and been up for a really long time, the guy who refuses to drink coffee on moral grounds is a leech and a douche not willing to do his part to keep everyone alive by staying alert and able-bodied enough to fight. They don't have time for a nap. High Elves in Dalaran and Stormwind were safe behind their Alliance allies and could afford to meditate and get massages and therapy. Even with the safety, Vereesa admitted in one of the novels that without her husband and sons to support her, she would've given in, which is pretty awful of her, considering she could kick back and relax the whole time, safe with her human friends, yet she judges the blood elves. The elves in Quel'thalas were hounded day and night by undead.

    I'm not talking about "if you don't help kill some trolls and undead, you're not allowed to join the blood elves." I'm talking like "I was safe in Stormwind the last 10 years while these guys fought trolls and undead despite the addiction. I just had to deal with getting over my mana addiction, without fighting an army the whole time. I'm inspired by their perseverance and would like to do my part to protect my homeland, so I'd like to join the Farstriders/Magisters/Blood Knights/etc. and secure our position in the Ghostlands, or help rebuild there."

    When I said they'd join the blood elves and serve the Horde when it was in their people's interests, I was saying something like when both factions go to war against a big bad and the Horde sends a big force that includes blood elves, that they'd go with them to help because it was in Quel'thalas' interests for that big bad to be defeated. Another scenario would be if the Alliance attacked Quel'thalas, they should care more about their home than a temporary team-up that was done in order to protect their home. If on the other hand, Quel'thalas was sending people directly to an Alliance base to attack them (without good reason), that's where uncorrupted elves would prefer to stay home and fight undead and trolls.

    We don't know what percentage of the night elves lived in Teldrassil. They had roughly a third of Kalimdor. Even so, the Horde didn't like what Sylvanas did, nor did they know about it. Saurfang's reaction in the cinematic should prove that hardly anyone but Sylvanas' most trusted Forsaken knew the plan.

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    I always thought the Night Elves in Quel'thalas didn't make any sense, but if the Draenei zone happens before the BE zone, that actually clears a lot of things up with that. That may be my new headcanon.
    Again why in the world when they had been in stormwind for 10 years would they go serve the horde. Have you ever played alliance? There is a cinematic with anduin where there is just a line of coffins talking about the cost of the war. If they have been in dalaran or stormwind for 10 years witnessing the atrocities the horde has committed they would not have any interest in going back. If the alliance attacked Quel'thalas likely in retaliation for yet another unprovoked attack like Teld it's very likely the Silver Covenant would march with them. Alleria tried to extend the hand of friendship to get the blood elves to join the alliance and was slapped away.

  9. #15289
    You don't even need to find an explanation for pink skin void elves, because who actually gives a fuck. Just slap some pink onto those void elves and enjoy. This is such a no-brainer for Blizzard.
    The Void. A force of infinite hunger. Its whispers have broken the will of dragons... and lured even the titans' own children into madness. Sages and scholars fear the Void. But we understand a truth they do not. That the Void is a power to be harnessed... to be bent by a will strong enough to command it. The Void has shaped us... changed us. But you will become its master. Wield the shadows as a weapon to save our world... and defend the Alliance!

  10. #15290
    Moderator Aucald's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Xath View Post
    I'm talking about the dwarf ambassador and spies those were put in as post justification to push the blood elves towards the horde.
    That's a bit more of a gray area, sure. The story itself presents that more as a justification than a reason, so to speak, but it's a valid one nonetheless. The Blood Elves were already working with the Horde when that occurs (an informal arrangement with Forsaken as the Horde's proxy), and that did very little to endear the already tipping government in Silvermoon to the Alliance cause. I'd argue the Alliance more shot itself in the foot than the spying incident forcibly pushing the Blood Elves away, but the end-result is more or less the same.
    "We're more of the love, blood, and rhetoric school. Well, we can do you blood and love without the rhetoric, and we can do you blood and rhetoric without the love, and we can do you all three concurrent or consecutive. But we can't give you love and rhetoric without the blood. Blood is compulsory. They're all blood, you see." ― Tom Stoppard, Rosencrantz and Guildenstern are Dead

  11. #15291
    Quote Originally Posted by Shadowfury View Post
    And 15 years later literally the same thing happened with the Nightborne and how they "decided" to join the Horde.
    Yup no race in the initial allied race set should have been locked to one faction they all should have been neutral.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Aucald View Post
    That's a bit more of a gray area, sure. The story itself presents that more as a justification than a reason, so to speak, but it's a valid one nonetheless. The Blood Elves were already working with the Horde when that occurs (an informal arrangement with Forsaken as the Horde's proxy), and that did very little to endear the already tipping government in Silvermoon to the Alliance cause. I'd argue the Alliance more shot itself in the foot than the spying incident forcibly pushing the Blood Elves away, but the end-result is more or less the same.
    Except it's not valid. It's like if blizzard decided Anduin and Liandrin were going to get married with no prior justification and put in some crazy romantic set of quests of him proving his love for a women he barely knew. Sure it would be "justification" of the relationship but it would be post justification so people who cared about lore would understandably have a fit. I purposefully choose something beyond ridiculous since there are probably terabytes of that type of art about anduin and sylvanas having a hate relationship and very little about Liandrin who is just kind of there.

  12. #15292
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    Quote Originally Posted by Thalassian Bob View Post
    Quite possibly! I'd be happy with those mottled fan skins for my mage (I would have always been happy with just a dirty blonde hair colour option)!
    Same on the mottled skins!

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    Quote Originally Posted by Varodoc View Post
    You don't even need to find an explanation for pink skin void elves, because who actually gives a fuck. Just slap some pink onto those void elves and enjoy. This is such a no-brainer for Blizzard.
    This too. Especially when we are in the current environment where Danuser effectively has said they'll put the options out there and players can come up with their own reasonings for those choices.

  13. #15293
    Moderator Aucald's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Xath View Post
    Except it's not valid. It's like if blizzard decided Anduin and Liandrin were going to get married with no prior justification and put in some crazy romantic set of quests of him proving his love for a women he barely knew. Sure it would be "justification" of the relationship but it would be post justification so people who cared about lore would understandably have a fit. I purposefully choose something beyond ridiculous since there are probably terabytes of that type of art about anduin and sylvanas having a hate relationship and very little about Liandrin who is just kind of there.
    I've got to admit - I am unsure of what you're trying to get at here. You are saying the Alliance spying on the Blood Elves in Quel'Thalas is an invalid reason for them to join the Horde? Being spied upon, and having non-allied forces in your land is generally not thought of a good thing, especially if said non-allied forces are ones you're not on the best of terms with (e.g. the state of affairs between Silvermoon and Stormwind at that time). Tensions were already high given the sentiments stemming from the Second and Third Wars, and the revelation that an Alliance diplomat was acting as spy on sovereign territory was simply the straw that broke the proverbial camel's back.
    "We're more of the love, blood, and rhetoric school. Well, we can do you blood and love without the rhetoric, and we can do you blood and rhetoric without the love, and we can do you all three concurrent or consecutive. But we can't give you love and rhetoric without the blood. Blood is compulsory. They're all blood, you see." ― Tom Stoppard, Rosencrantz and Guildenstern are Dead

  14. #15294
    Quote Originally Posted by Aucald View Post
    I've got to admit - I am unsure of what you're trying to get at here. You are saying the Alliance spying on the Blood Elves in Quel'Thalas is an invalid reason for them to join the Horde? Being spied upon, and having non-allied forces in your land is generally not thought of a good thing, especially if said non-allied forces are ones you're not on the best of terms with (e.g. the state of affairs between Silvermoon and Stormwind at that time). Tensions were already high given the sentiments stemming from the Second and Third Wars, and the revelation that an Alliance diplomat was acting as spy on sovereign territory was simply the straw that broke the proverbial camel's back.
    And why were the Alliance doing that? We never got any lore behind it, they're just randomly there screwing with the Blood elves.
    It was just a forced thing to push the Blood elves into the Horde, and we've never heard of this spying effort since.

  15. #15295
    Quote Originally Posted by Aucald View Post
    I've got to admit - I am unsure of what you're trying to get at here. You are saying the Alliance spying on the Blood Elves in Quel'Thalas is an invalid reason for them to join the Horde? Being spied upon, and having non-allied forces in your land is generally not thought of a good thing, especially if said non-allied forces are ones you're not on the best of terms with (e.g. the state of affairs between Silvermoon and Stormwind at that time). Tensions were already high given the sentiments stemming from the Second and Third Wars, and the revelation that an Alliance diplomat was acting as spy on sovereign territory was simply the straw that broke the proverbial camel's back.
    I'm saying you can't justify a decision by something put in game after the decision has been made for example the tyrande scene that was used to justify the nightborne joining the horde.

  16. #15296
    Moderator Aucald's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Gurluas View Post
    And why were the Alliance doing that? We never got any lore behind it, they're just randomly there screwing with the Blood elves.
    It was just a forced thing to push the Blood elves into the Horde, and we've never heard of this spying effort since.
    Quel'Thalas is a powerful nation, and the Alliance had likely heard that Sylvanas and her Forsaken were lending them their aid, and so were likely rightfully worried about the prospect of the Horde gaining a client-state on their very doorstep. I can see why the Alliance might want to gain more intelligence on their former allies, and fear a partnership between the Blood Elves and the Horde.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Xath View Post
    I'm saying you can't justify a decision by something put in game after the decision has been made for example the tyrande scene that was used to justify the nightborne joining the horde.
    Depends on your frame of reference, I suppose. Do things happen in a story that serve to move the general action to specific points? Certainly, yes. But that is the story as it is being told, and not really something we can truly debate. It's like if you're watching a movie and a given character does something dumb, something you'd never do yourself, that pushes the plot along a given direction. Yeah, you can point out that said action is just a way of moving the story from point A to point B, but that's how stories basically work. It's not a post-hoc justification by any means, it's just an action done for narrative or dramatic effect.
    "We're more of the love, blood, and rhetoric school. Well, we can do you blood and love without the rhetoric, and we can do you blood and rhetoric without the love, and we can do you all three concurrent or consecutive. But we can't give you love and rhetoric without the blood. Blood is compulsory. They're all blood, you see." ― Tom Stoppard, Rosencrantz and Guildenstern are Dead

  17. #15297
    Quote Originally Posted by Obelisk Kai View Post
    Not sure how finding a literal handful proves that wrong though?
    We can only speculate for the moment, while waiting for this area to be updated and available in alpha.
    But if you want the dead, it is rather the Sunreaver who should all be ghosts in the Shadowlands, the purge must also have been done in the corner.

  18. #15298
    Ohhhh, even the Quartermaster? Now that's interesting! I'm just happy to see the Silver Covenant still around, hope they do something interesting yay!

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    Okay so I just realized that these are all High Elves present during the Argent Tournament on the High Elven pavillion. So I think the two most likely possibilities are:

    -A flashback during the time of the Argent Tournament.

    -They are still on Icecrown and will show for a reason during the introductory quests.

    I think the later is the more likely, so they will either aid the players during our initial assault to the Shadowlands, or they will be a casualty.

    EDIT: A cursory look also reveals the Sunreaver counterparts to have been added as well, so maybe the Argent Tournament former grounds will be relevant at some point?

    EDIT ": It seems all the Argent Tournament NPC's were added, so I think it mostly means we will pass through there or the grounds will be relevant for a reason.

    Weird to think they are still all there.
    Last edited by MyWholeLifeIsThunder; 2020-04-12 at 09:56 PM.

  19. #15299
    Something will happen in this area, it will be redesigned for the Shadowlands pre-patch (Cinematic, quests ect ...) as for each extension.

  20. #15300
    Quote Originally Posted by MyWholeLifeIsThunder View Post
    Ohhhh, even the Quartermaster? Now that's interesting! I'm just happy to see the Silver Covenant still around, hope they do something interesting yay!

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    Okay so I just realized that these are all High Elves present during the Argent Tournament on the High Elven pavillion. So I think the two most likely possibilities are:

    -A flashback during the time of the Argent Tournament.

    -They are still on Icecrown and will show for a reason during the introductory quests.

    I think the later is the more likely, so they will either aid the players during our initial assault to the Shadowlands, or they will be a casualty.

    EDIT: A cursory look also reveals the Sunreaver counterparts to have been added as well, so maybe the Argent Tournament former grounds will be relevant at some point?

    EDIT ": It seems all the Argent Tournament NPC's were added, so I think it mostly means we will pass through there or the grounds will be relevant for a reason.

    Weird to think they are still all there.
    Consider the possibility that if a new AR was being released, you would need to create a hub for them.

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