Official High Elf Discussion Megathread

[Ardenaso]

Claiming that Vereesa is not an important character is being extremely disingenuous. She has been a major Alliance secondary character since Cataclysm. In WoD and BfA she hardly had any role, but that doesn't matter, because the same can be said for some of the Alliance's primary characters too.

Vereesa only appears in good expansions. Girl's got some good taste

[Thalassian Bob]

Vereesa only appears in good expansions. Girl's got some good taste

But she featured heavily in Mists... ( ͡° ͜ʖ ͡°)

[elbleuet]

Claiming that Vereesa is not an important character is being extremely disingenuous. She has been a major Alliance secondary character since Cataclysm. In WoD and BfA she hardly had any role, but that doesn't matter, because the same can be said for some of the Alliance's primary characters too.

Exactly. Vereesa isn't a main Alliance character, but she's an important one.

[protip]

But she featured heavily in Mists... ( ͡° ͜ʖ ͡°)

Now those are fightin’ words, friend.

[MyWholeLifeIsThunder]

yes, quite real, i know people like to give her much credit, but, what is her relevance? JUST being someone else sister? she will not partake any role and will not be relevant at all, even in the comic she was there just because she was their sister

I mean just look at the Siege of orgrimmar 2, she was just there, and nothing more, like i said, she being mentioned is understandable, but to appear and do stuff? if the book was about alleria only, maybe, i doubt they will waste time making Alleria visit her and talk, and blablablabla, when the book is about a lot of key characters, they will prob cut to the important parts

It's like you are unable to grasp at logic dear lord.

You yourself point out that "She was just there" during SoO 2.0... yeah, because it would have been weird to have her other two sisters being relevant and her not showing up. The level of dissociation you have to have to come up with "reasons" why Vereesa showing up -because being relevant to a narrative doesn't mean she has to be a main character dear lord- it's outstanding. There's a point where you have to realize how ridiculously biased you are being.

This whole thing is because you somehow you disagree it's likely that Vereesa will show up -again, I'm not even saying she will be a major character at all- in a narrative about one of her sisters hunting for the other. You dislike Vereesa so much you are disregarding simple logic.

Like maybe she won't show up and that's find, but it's not unreasonable to expect that she will have an appearance given the plot of the book. You make it sound like it's a wild guess and you gotta realize how ridiculous you sound right?

[Syegfryed]

Retconned or not, Blizzard chose Vereesa to represent the Alliance in Zul'Aman. So she's relevant.

She being retconed means exactly she was not relevant and not necessary

Liadrin co-leaded the blood elves in Suramar. Vereesa leaded the High elves alone in Suramar, and was also present on Argus. What's your point ?

Veresa was under the Leadership of the Tyrande and the night elves, delete her and the other elves and the story would be the same.

But now you are going to tell me she is relevant because she was also insulted by Elisande

Just like Vereesa being a key plot in MOP too during the purge and then on the Isle of Thunder. She appeared in books and novels too. A whole short story was centered about her and her sisters.
Except she isn't a racial leader unlike Lor'Themar.

She was not a key plot point, Jaina was, she was just a subordinate , and the only one comic with her was awful, with her just being nothing again, since the plot revolves around Sylvanus and ALleria

Without Vereesa, Jaina couldn't have handled the purge and thus won against the Horde in Dalaran. So she was relevant.

pretty sure she could

[Highelf]

something who happened years ago.


Same as elfranger#542



same as nightelfranger#125


same as, well you get it by now.




She is rly not, until she actually head something i will agree you, the point is, she is not relevant in years, and there is little reason for her be in the book, let alone do something.

but well lets wait the book and we can tag ourselves after we read it.

He just gave you all the ways she is and what she headed up. You're just grasping at straws and wanting to hate a character just because you don't like her. She does a lot in the books, a lot. What else you got hater?

[Syegfryed]

It's like you are unable to grasp at logic dear lord.

Its not me who is hoping for veressa appear and do stuff in a book who have nothing to do with her.

Look, i know you guys like her, and need her around to keep the "fire going", but i don't think she will appear in a book that is about talanji, Zekhan, Nathanos, Alleria and others, a mention maybe, but someone can keep relevant or keep appearing just because she is someone else sister.

[MyWholeLifeIsThunder]

In a franchise with dozens of prominent characters and dozens of lenses through which to view those characters (affiliation with particular player races or fraction groupings), I think it's impossible to control how players respond to those characters. For example, I see Lor'themar as a fundamentally good man who did his best in a terrible situation which inevitably came with some mistakes (mind-controlling citizenry, even if it wasn't his idea, he oversaw it). However, others, it seems, see him as a weak and spiteful man who refuses to accept help he doesn't deserve (Zul'Aman Cata) and who acted as Kael'thas' puppet. Inversely, I don't like Tyrande and Malfurion, but they are some people's favourite characters. I think all the characters I mentioned are ideally in Blizzard's eyes meant to be seen as heroic when viewing the fullness of their character journeys. But people, including myself, will latch on to certain things they may have done that affects their favourite groups in negative ways and struggle to get past that. It's an Azerothian equivalent to the old "one man's terrorist is another man's freedom fighter" adage.

Sure, but I am making a point that our biases as an audience in these cases are not as much as authorial intention as just subjective appeañ. They are not written to be so controversial. I'm not saying is wrong, but takes like "Lor'themar is the worst" are just highly subjective, cause the narrative has never treated him as an ineffectual leader. The point is that the narrative doesn't frames any of these characters (some of) the audience chooses to frame them themselves. -Like if anything Lor'themar for example is written more often than not as a cool level headed dude so uncharitable reads of his character are not as much text but biased perception-

I think that's a fair assessment of the SC's likely membership.

I'd love to see more Alliance corruption. But, Blizz seems to struggle with adding grey to blue. Personally, with BfA's story I would have thrust Sylvanas into the accidental anti-hero role making the Alliance the aggressors with Genn controlling Anduin, but we play the cards we are dealt.

Yeah, that's the main problem with the alliance. They are either reactionary or justified or "actually had good reason in hindsight", it's just boring.

[Syegfryed]

He just gave you all the ways she is and what she headed up. You're just grasping at straws and wanting to hate a character just because you don't like her. She does a lot in the books, a lot. What else you got hater?

You can stop your passive-aggressive form of defense, just because i said she was not relevant in wow don't mean i hate something

"all the ways" are just extrapolation of the events, so? lets agree to disagree

[MyWholeLifeIsThunder]

Its not me who is hoping for veressa appear and do stuff in a book who have nothing to do with her.

Do you completely lack reading comprehension? Dear lord; the point is not "hoping" she appears, i'm literally just saying it's not unreasonable to think she might appear in the book since she is relevant to the story of Alleria hunting Sylvanas.

Stop being so contrarian and anti everything high elf and actually pay attention for fucks sake.

[Highelf]

You can stop your passive-aggressive form of defense, just because i said she was not relevant in wow don't mean i hate something

"all the ways" are just extrapolation of the events, so? lets agree to disagree

Dude just stop. at this point you're just embarrassing yourself. We get it, you don't like her, fine. No one cares about that. I don't like Thrall but he's done a lot in the past. See what I did there?

[Syegfryed]

Do you completely lack reading comprehension? Dear lord; the point is not "hoping" she appears, i'm literally just saying it's not unreasonable to think she might appear in the book since she is relevant to the story of Alleria hunting Sylvanas.

Stop being so contrarian and anti everything high elf and actually pay attention for fucks sake.

And im just saying i don't think she will, you are the one trying to be contrarian in relation to my opinion, with this anti stuff being passive aggressive, since i didn't mention a thing about HE in general, just saying she have no reason to be in the book, and she isn't listed in the featured characters, maybe a mention, but anymore than that is a stretch

Like i said, we can wait till the book is out, and you can tag me and say i told you so if im wrong, you are the one keeping the conversation going.

[MyWholeLifeIsThunder]

I don't believe the Void Elves actually need further clarification that they can turn other elves into Void Elves.

What can I even answer to this? "Oh no we don't need more lore about Void Elves we can just headcanon stuff. Do you even care about lore or you just pretend to do so to justify not making High Elves playable? Cause I really can't believe someone who says they care about lore then goes "nah, we don't need clarification on how more Void Elves are done."

What is even this.

Yet Danuser has explained why they aren't going to do that, it is so time consuming to construct these origins that to do so would preclude them expanding customisations if each customisation had to be justified.

You are calling flavor text time consuming. Good Lord.

It is up to the player to explain to themselves why their Sand Troll is now within the Horde.
Similarly, it is up to the player to explain to themselves why their Void Elf has a high elf origin. Unlike the Sand Troll, there is enough circumstantial evidence in game to support this origin. Whilst you have doubts the process could be replicated, the process seems very simple, merely bombard a being with void energy for a certain amount of time and then stop. The Void Elves themselves deployed this process during the Zuldazar assault to convert Ravasaurs into Void Ravasaurs.
There is enough there for a Void Elf player to create a plausible, lore consistent high elf origin. More so than the Sand Troll player has to work with

.

This is just pretzel level logic loop jumping. I don't know what's worse, you actually believing a VE with HE origin doesn't need any further explanation or you just being disingenuous about it to just follow your consistent anti HE posture. Or maybe you think it requires less clarification than a farraki. Or maybe the worst is you being against what's basically an NPC with flavor text saying "Hey! we know how to make new Void Elves and we have all these new High Elf recruits!"

How can you be so entrenched in an anti posture that you go against ANYTHING even remotely satisfactory from a HE perspective?

I'm not against it being explained, what I am against is this idea that it is impossible until it is explained, particularly given the considerable body of evidence showing it is possible. Rather than wait until Blizzard decides to be more explicit about it (which I think they already have been given Moorgard was directly asked where Void Elf numbers where coming from and he answered other elves are seeking them out), the assumption should be that they can expand.

And what I am saying is that we don't have enough information and facts to make that assumption; maybe for the headcanon of your character, but that does not confirmation make.

- - - Updated - - -

And im just saying i don't think she will, you are the one trying to be contrarian in relation to my opinion, with this anti stuff being passive aggressive, since i didn't mention a thing about HE in general, just saying she have no reason to be in the book, and she isn't listed in the featured characters, maybe a mention, but anymore than that is a stretch

Like i said, we can wait till the book is out, and you can tag me and say i told you so if im wrong, you are the one keeping the conversation going.

The point is that you are so obviously biased against High Elves to the point of making completely irrational points. It's like you think your points are stronger if you are unflinching on a completely anti HE posture. It's exhausting trying to have a conversation with someone so biased they forgo logic and base all their opinions on a pre-decided outcome/posture.

And like I literally said, it's not even about Vereesa showing up or not, is about you being so wrapped on your bias you said Vereesa had no reason to show up on a book about one of her sisters hunting for the other.

- - - Updated - - -

Blizzard forgot about Arator and Vereesa in BFA so all hope is lost for them

unless they make it so the Silver Covenant and the important High Elves only appear every other expansion

Which has kinda been the trend really, mmm. Contractual obligations?

Also Vereesa did show up during SoO 2.0, she brought some ballistas.

at this point I would've loved to see the Blood Elves as chill "don't mess with us or you die" and the High Elves as self-righteous bastards who are like "You helped the cousin of the servant of the brother of the guard of the Horde character #4342324? I kill you today"

I mean it's funny, but do you not see perhaps some bias behind that perspective? I mostly point out because as someone that loves loves in general, it's just so weird to see how both sides treat the other. But isn't that just the faction conflict working, mm?

[Syegfryed]

The point is that you are so obviously biased against High Elves to the point of making completely irrational points.

And i think i can flip the table to you, in the same level, maybe the point is that you are so obviously biased pro high elf to the point of making completely irrational points.

You said Vereesa had no reason to show up on a book about one of her sisters hunting for the other.

Indeed she have no reason to show up, just because she is someone else sister. Cause you know, the book is not just about Sylvanas and her sisters. Grant it, i know she have to appear to keep the fire going, hopes alive and all, she just being in the same room Alleria when she receive her order and talk nothing will be enough for you guys to say she is relevant, but i don't think so

Unless of course, she participe in the hunt, who it doesn't look like:

Struggling to shoulder the crushing weight of leadership, King Anduin entrusts the void elf and High Exarch Turalyon to uncover Sylvanas's whereabouts.

And of course the book isn't about those 2 either:

Meanwhile, Nathanos Blightcaller and Sira Moonwarden have been tasked by the Dark Lady with a terrifying gambit: to kill the troll loa of death himself, Bwonsamdi.

And of course the book also have a horde side:

As Zekhan and Talanji work to save Bwonsamdi, their journey will be a key turning point in bolstering the Horde against the coming darkness and finding themselves along the way.

So yes, i don't think she will appear or do something, maybe a mention if we are luck, that is my opinion, and we can talk again when the book is out.

[Thalassian Bob]

Now those are fightin’ words, friend.

Sorry! I know a lot of people enjoyed Mists on a gameplay level, but I just couldn't get into the story or the zones!

Sure, but I am making a point that our biases as an audience in these cases are not as much as authorial intention as just subjective appeañ. They are not written to be so controversial. I'm not saying is wrong, but takes like "Lor'themar is the worst" are just highly subjective, cause the narrative has never treated him as an ineffectual leader. The point is that the narrative doesn't frames any of these characters (some of) the audience chooses to frame them themselves. -Like if anything Lor'themar for example is written more often than not as a cool level headed dude so uncharitable reads of his character are not as much text but biased perception-


Yeah, that's the main problem with the alliance. They are either reactionary or justified or "actually had good reason in hindsight", it's just boring.

Very true, but I could see how someone from with a pro-high elf range could resent Lor'themar because of his being in charge when pro-Alliance blood elves were seen to be brainwashed by magisters, his exiling of the Quel'Lithien elves and his demand for Vereesa to be ousted from Quel'Thalas during the events of Cataclysm.

That's the thing about games like WoW that encourage people to pick sides. People choose which banners they fly and cling to them with a firm grip so when a character is written to be fairly middle-of-the-road and likeable, if, in their history, they have slighted a group that some people identify with or advocate for, people are going to cling to a grudge against them. You could probably write a sociology thesis on the phenomenon!

It is boring. It can be nice to play the clear-cut good guys in a conflict, but it doesn't feel great, in a game of binary conflict, to have one side almost universally come out of every expansion looking markedly better than the other.

[Varx]

So what's the thread about now?

[Obelisk Kai]

What can I even answer to this? "Oh no we don't need more lore about Void Elves we can just headcanon stuff. Do you even care about lore or you just pretend to do so to justify not making High Elves playable? Cause I really can't believe someone who says they care about lore then goes "nah, we don't need clarification on how more Void Elves are done."

What is even this.

What I am saying is that right now there is sufficient information out there for players to headcanon their own completely justifiable and believable origin for Void Elves who are transformed High Exiles. Just as there is sufficient information for players to headcanon that their Dwarf is a Wildhammer or that their Troll is a Revantusk.
So Void Elves don't need more. More however would be welcome for added clarification but it isn't necessary to fulfil the goal now.

You are calling flavor text time consuming. Good Lord.

No, I am merely stating what Moorgard stated, the reason they aren't being more explicit with the new customisations being offered to certain races (especially when they are clearly inspired by currently unplayable sub-groups) is that in their opinion it would be too time consuming to create introductory scenarios for these groups which rationalised their presence within the Horde and the Alliance. They are leaving it to the player to headcanon their own explanations. Who knows, maybe they will offer the clarification you seek in black and white (or at least more black and white than Danuser saying other elves have been seeking the void elves out to learn their powers) at some point, but on the other hand Moorgard implies that a certain amount of headcanoning by players is expected if those players want to live out their Wildhammer Dwarf and Forest Troll fantasies without Blizzard explicitly stating that those characters are Wildhammer Dwarves or Revantusk Trolls.

This is just pretzel level logic loop jumping. I don't know what's worse, you actually believing a VE with HE origin doesn't need any further explanation or you just being disingenuous about it to just follow your consistent anti HE posture. Or maybe you think it requires less clarification than a farraki. Or maybe the worst is you being against what's basically an NPC with flavor text saying "Hey! we know how to make new Void Elves and we have all these new High Elf recruits!"

Frankly the presence of high elf wayfarers in Tel'ogrus was what you wanted and it was rejected for not being explicit enough. Pro High Elf people do not want to admit Void Elves can turn other Elves into Void Elves because accepting that means accepting that they can play a former high elf who has always been loyal to the Alliance, albeit as a Void Elf. And accepting it means accepting that the Void Elves have replicated the transformation process and the resulting Void Elves are still blue/purple.
The desire for explicit in game clarification seems to carry with it the subtle hope that that that explicit clarification will involve an in game depiction which could then segue into the apparent holy grail, a High Elf who goes through an 'improved' procedure who then comes out looking the same as they went in.

How can you be so entrenched in an anti posture that you go against ANYTHING even remotely satisfactory from a HE perspective?

Because Blood Elves are High Elves and in a faction based game where the attraction to and identity of each faction is predicated on consisting of unique, faction exclusive options, attempting to duplicate a core part of one faction to the other is deeply unfair. If you want to play a traditional high elf, that is a Blood Elf. If you don't like the company they keep, then you can play the variant specifically constructed for the Alliance. But that variant should remain a variant, both to protect the integrity of the Horde, the identity of the Blood Elves AND the identity of the Void Elves who deserve to be as much their own thing as possible without being turned into ersatz high elves.

And what I am saying is that we don't have enough information and facts to make that assumption; maybe for the headcanon of your character, but that does not confirmation make.

That is subjective which is kind of the point of headcanon. I believe there is enough. A Void Elf player such as thalassian bob believes there is enough. But if you don't believe there is enough, that is entirely your choice. You don't have to accept another player's headcanon explanation for their character. A point I have often made in regards to those who believe high elf or high elf like skins would allow them to pretend their Void Elf so customised would be a High Elf and not a Void Elf, which of course they wouldn't be. But headcanoning your origin and what you were before you were transformed is a lot more abstract than actively pretending your are something the game will remind you that you are not.

[Strippling]

So what's the thread about now?

How it was never about the aesthetic and always about the lore, but they'll settle for void elves with high elf customizations...

[Varx]

How it was never about the aesthetic and always about the lore, but they'll settle for void elves with high elf customizations...

I see. Well this is why even that won't happen probably. If they start giving velves more helf like customizations then they'd have to make voidy blotchy versions of every belf skin tone PLUS new pure void skins tones. Then they'd have like double the skin tones compared to every other race. And why? Just keep them voidy since you know... they're VOID elves, not partially void elves.