Official High Elf Discussion Megathread

[HeiAggra]

Why bother? What you are doing, devising ways to make a group of High Elves distinct from the Blood Elves, is exactly what Blizzard did to create the Void Elves.

If Void Elves are too different, nothing except a clone will satisfy.

Also your creations look like rejects from an 80's glam rock band. I know that sounds harsh, but that is literally what they look like.

https://www.google.co.uk/search?q=je...2fIhtmE2-F4hM:

New Sub-Race: HighRockingEves

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High Elves as I want them currently exist right now. And yes, Allied races do give Blizzard free reign to create or recreate anything they want. A.) They are Blizzard. B.) They permit similar races to currently existing ones.

So you want Blood Elves???

[RangerDaz]

Hey Kai,

Again, as i previously said to you on another thread, your mind is already decided so you give the answer and present your arguments in a way to lead the reader in the direction you believe is right. And that is clear when you say "It is not possible".

I will try to be brief, because we both know none of us will change our minds

I don't think it's possible to differentiate High Elves of the Alliance and Blood Elves. I know some people are trying, but what they create doesn't look right. And what does look right is already playable.

Those are my thoughts.

Here is your genuine feeling. And i know the feeling is shared with many other people.
but there are also other people that feel the opposite.

I believe the answer for a High Elf playable race lies in creating a visually compelling race that resembles the high elf warcraft theme but at the same time differenciates themselves from their family races: Blood Elves and Void Elves.

The lack of emphasis on the Void Elves is understandable as they have just come into existence and their story will be that of the wider void versus light conflict that will not only form the core of the game's story going forward, but the story of the thalassian peoples as they divide into light and void focused groups.

I am convinced, given the new plot paradigm of light versus dark, that the Void Elves are destined to play a major role in the future of the game, particularly Alleria and Umbric as the two Void Elf leaders (even if Alleria is a different sort of Void Elf). The Thalassian storyline makes the most sense as reflecting this new paradigm. High Elves of the Alliance have no place in that new dichotomy. A dichotomy by definition involves only two things after all.

You said Blood Elves and Void Elves make a contrast like Holy Race vs. Void Race, and it is true. That is the path Blizzard is taking right now.

I also believe that High Elves have also an opposite race, and i have talked about it many times, even in this thread: The Undead High Elves, the ones killed by Arthas and raised in undeath, like Sylvanas. They would be perfect for the counter part. Also High Elf vs. Blood Elf also make sense, since high elves want to return to their homeland but blood elves say they no longer belong there. And void elves vs. undead elves is like the conflict between Alleria and Sylvanas (need to say more?).


I could also discuss the Argus retcon and the relevance of the Silver Covenant in WoW lore, because i don't agree with you on both replies you gave. We have different interpretations, and its ok, and we both know we won't reach a consensus.

[Obelisk Kai]

Hey Kai,

Again, as i previously said to you on another thread, your mind is already decided so you give the answer and present your arguments in a way to lead the reader in the direction you believe is right. And that is clear when you say "It is not possible".

I will try to be brief, because we both know none of us will change our minds





Here is your genuine feeling. And i know the feeling is shared with many other people.
but there are also other people that feel the opposite.

I believe the answer for a High Elf playable race lies in creating a visually compelling race that resembles the high elf warcraft theme but at the same time differenciates themselves from their family races: Blood Elves and Void Elves.





You said Blood Elves and Void Elves make a contrast like Holy Race vs. Void Race, and it is true. That is the path Blizzard is taking right now.

I also believe that High Elves have also an opposite race, and i have talked about it many times, even in this thread: The Undead High Elves, the ones killed by Arthas and raised in undeath, like Sylvanas. They would be perfect for the counter part. Also High Elf vs. Blood Elf also make sense, since high elves want to return to their homeland but blood elves say they no longer belong there. And void elves vs. undead elves is like the conflict between Alleria and Sylvanas (need to say more?).


I could also discuss the Argus retcon and the relevance of the Silver Covenant in WoW lore, because i don't agree with you on both replies you gave. We have different interpretations, and its ok, and we both know we won't reach a consensus.

That's fair enough.

I would personally like to thank you for your respectful replies and willingness to engage.

Too many people on this topic are too quick to resort to ad hominem attacks, igniting flame wars.

I believe you are wrong of course, and I will continue to argue my point of view in these topics, but I believe a discussion as we have had is more fruitful overall.

[Syegfryed]

The difference is there is no massive horde movement for any of those things, they never contributed to the horde aesthetic, or identity. You and I both know they are different from high elves.

If it were people saying "I want alliance orcs because it'd be cool!" and there was a giant movement for that, I'd call it ridiculous, too.

so we just need some vocal minority and the idea udenly sop being ridiculous?

The high elves are not alliance identity not since warcraft 2, a few npcs don't change that

Like I said, with the abundance of allied races, what's the big issue with another elf?

because regardless the "abundance of allied races" they still are in 2, 2 tauren, 2 draeneis, 2 orcs, 2 humans, elves are in 4

High Elves sound ridiculous when you willfully ignore the context, but we both know the context. They aren't ridiculous, it's just a bad time for another elf. Do we agree?

we are just walking in circles at this point

[Azen]

High Elves as I want them currently exist right now. And yes, Allied races do give Blizzard free reign to create or recreate anything they want. A.) They are Blizzard. B.) They permit similar races to currently existing ones.

Blizzard yea. You? No. Since they have already said Blood elves are High elves, I think it's pretty clear what you want doesn't fit the game. At least not now.

[RangerDaz]

That's fair enough.

I would personally like to thank you for your respectful replies and willingness to engage.

Too many people on this topic are too quick to resort to ad hominem attacks, igniting flame wars.

It's ok, mate!

Forums can become toxic if we all together don't make a collective effort to respect each other, and especially when we are all passionate for something.

It is up to all of us to try to relax, take a breath when things get heated.

I believe it is important for everyone to be heard, whether we agree or not agree with them, and to make constructive discussions, because those are the ones where we get the best results.

I believe you are wrong of course

And I wouldn't expect any other answer than that one, of course!

I will continue to argue my point of view in these topics, but I believe a discussion as we have had is more fruitful overall.

This is what forums are about. For people to share their points of view, preferably in a constructive way. (because flame wars don't take us anywhere.)

[Evangeliste]

It literally wasn't possible after Burning Crusade until the inception of Allied Races, it literally wasn't feasible. These kinds of requests are the reason the allied race system came into existence.

It was a request that was impossible to grant for most of those 15 years. You're acting like nothing has changed. It's the same as Dark Iron, requested for 15 years, they were added as an allied race. They also said 'Nothing is off the table'.

Stop acting like they've been saying no for 15 years, that is such a dumb argument. The community has existed for 15 years, and it's been a wishlist item, but finally, there is a way to implement them, and I think Ion commented before actually understanding the situation, otherwise they wouldn't have said "Nothing is off the table" and they would have said "High Elves, and races that are very similar to others are off the table."

If it comes a time 15 years from now when t here are no High Elves despite the allied race system? I'd say Yeah, they aren't happening and people should stop asking... But with the allied race system? It raises the possibility. Mag'har and Dark Iron have been requested nearly as long and were only JUST implemented.

Allied Races could have been implemented years ago as well.

Stop acting like that suddenly opened the flood gates and Blizzard made something revolutionary and new.

Customisation in games isn't exactly ground breaking and new considering Blizzard have easily done so for NPC's, reskinning old rigs for years, reskinning models foryears, so on, really you're just making yourself sound quite stand-offish for literally no reason other than you feel your opinion matters more and Blizzard will listen.

Blizzard easily could have done customisation way back, even when the game started and picking a race is really customisation in itself, so expanding on it isn't a push. There's been ample opportunity to at least provide the different shade of eye colour to the mix for Blood Elves without the problem of race and visuals as it stands now. They even said time and time again, gameplay>lore which connected to High Elves, as gameplay would be simplified to an eye colour, is still being withdrawn, for years, because of lore. It's quite something, almost idiotic when their approach is gameplay>lore. Why would it even matter? But it clearly lore does and been abstained for so long, even back in TBC when in ignorance it could have been added. I mean Pandarens were pulled and Draenei just whacked in. Such a huge change but something like High Elves was, overlooked?

On top of that, the recent golden eye colour implementation is one such example, easy solution to add it, to offset this, they even gave a really brief explanation that it comes with the cleansing of the Sunwell, which happened years ago in lore and gameplay. Confusing much? Or avoidance. I mean break it down. All it is, is a recolour on faces, 3 faces. It's not difficult for them to do it. There was even a model remake a while ago to sneak it in, before Allied Races. But no.
There's a lot to things to support it and so much time to do it in, such as, entry of the race entirely, aforementioned remodels of the race, weaved lore in quicker too as they always do between expansions which in turn would support things like the Silver Covenant faction existing, Varessa their leader and here since Wrath which in turn lend itself to Allied Race system as it stands, Void Elves with High Elves in the same Telogrus Rift where they could bullshit there way through that or springboard from. Heck, Blood Elves being the biggest Horde faction played so a change of eye colour wouldn't even matter in terms of visuals back then. Sweet Jesus there's been a lot. And yet... They dodged every time. One simple change or addition.

Weird or, just riding their own gravy train of Allied Races and avoiding the subject entirely, in the most obvious way, by throwing other things to deflect the awareness of such avoidance.

I'm glad you're hopeful of Blizzard listening, however looking at what has already transpired, it looks like Blizzard are still going to hold their ground. With needless amounts of opportunities to do something so simple as give blue eye colour change up to something as drastic as having a High Elf Allied Race, to which they've already got a sea of "constantly requested" races to place side by side another race, which was rather more for years "we want customisation like x, y, z races"... With fuck knows what else to support and waving a magic wand to make it so.
I'm more sceptical with such a thing happening, they have lore as it stands now currently, to make it a real possibility. High Elves being pissed off with Sylvanas, Varessa warning Alleria in Genedar, they could even have Varessa siding with Horde since Void Elves pretty much pissed on the older lore entirely... They could pull fucking anything at this point, High Elf fans would lap that shit up most likely because for once they exist as playable characters. So much there to make this such an piss easy opportunity, and... Yeah it's still not here.

And what's amazing is, giving High Elves as an Allied Race, would be such a massive cash grab and fan-service, I'm confused why they haven't done it literally upon their release and here we are, Void Elves filling that gap and already seeing so many being levelled.
And with that, Allied Races not even 6 months old in release or carnation, 8 Allied Races have been confirmed, with some like literal "what the fuck?". And they still skirt around High Elves to this day. Like what? But you may not see the colossal avoidance like I do because you are hoping they will give just give that Blizzard will be candid with an eye colour.

Like I said, I'm glad you're hoping Blizzard will pull through, you carry on. However, I'm not sure Blizzard are going to take a step further unless they do something radical like, make Dragonkin a thing with a humanoid side similar to Worgen (since a tendency amongst the Blue Dragonflight like using High Elf). Or better yet, they do something with the Quel'Thalas area on the map since it's been invisible walled since Cataclysm thanks to flying making it obvious. But even then, with Void Elves in the mix, they could just mask off High Elves entirely. Or keep them amalgamated as they are in Telogrus Rift.
Who knows.

But I am allowed to express opinion that is factually obvious, that they have been off the table with so much time to deliver it. And also personally, they won't because for 15 years it's been stepped around with clear implementation to avoid it. Without needing to be a prick about it.

[lettersandpunctuation]

i didn't insult anyone here

Should we do the nature elves? "but i want an elf mage BabyRage"

then we should stick the the arcane mages? "but i want elf druid BabyRage"

rly baffle me how you guys like to bend and distort the lore just to attend your will, cause it can't get over a race not in your faction

elf shaman, elf druids, you guys rly have no sense of ridiculous, jesus

you lack of knowledge but this subject is becoming cringe

you are so desperate that you are clinging to literally anything isn't? :/

prove then wrong pal, your arguments are "troling REEE" "beeing mean REEE"

(Admittedly that last one was directed at someone who was also insulting you, but apparenty it began with you saying something to a dev on twitter? Idunno, I didnt look back that far.)

i love the ability o high elf fans to compre literally everything with the High elves, it is so desperate

But yeah the majority of these insults aren't directed at specific people who started it with you, they seem to be directed personally at all high elf supporters.

[Syegfryed]

(Admittedly that last one was directed at someone who was also insulting you, but apparenty it began with you saying something to a dev on twitter? Idunno, I didnt look back that far.)

you are calling that insults? rly?

i mean the first one, i didn't even call anyone ridiculous, just the idea of elf shamans

saying people lack knowledge in the subject is not an insult

saying someone is desperate at something is not an insult

and the last one is not even close to an insult lmao

But yeah the majority of these insults aren't directed at specific people who started it with you, they seem to be directed personally at all high elf supporters.

saying someone is desperate that anything become a "he confirmed" is not an insult, sorry

[Deleted]

@Traycor

Damnit why did I stuble into your thread just yet.

Since it is so long and old and dicussions might have derailed alot, I just want to express my approval and tell you ho awesome your post is.
You put in a lot of work and didn't just copy Blood Elves for high elves but gave them a unique an cool touch.

I like that a lot, awesome work, really!

I would even consider playing one of them instead of my night elves...

[lettersandpunctuation]

i mean the first one, i didn't even call anyone ridiculous, just the idea of elf shamans

That first one was you portraying someone who wants high elf mages or high elf druids as "Babyrage"-ing, which sounds to me like you calling them similar to raging babies.

We're talking about this one, right?

Should we do the nature elves? "but i want an elf mage BabyRage"

then we should stick the the arcane mages? "but i want elf druid BabyRage"

I don't see any mention of shamans here or in the post this quote was responding to.

Edit: ooh wait I see it now! But shamans were just one of the many other classes that guy was discussing! IF you wanted to specifically mock that idea I think you should have been more specific: the "babyrage" thing just made you sound like you were attacking anyone who wants mages and druids, which might be why people have the impression that you are making personal insults.

[Syegfryed]

That first one was you portraying someone who wants high elf mages or high elf druids as "Babyrage"-ing, which sounds to me like you calling them similar to raging babies.

its a common twitch chat emote, to say someone is crying about something, and tat is exactly what happens, people don't want stick with one fantasy, they want everything, yet i didn't insult anyone, but if the hood serves, what can i do?


I don't see any mention of shamans here or in the post this quote was responding to.[/QUOTE]

you just quote me talking about shamans, did you forgot so quickly?

elf shaman, elf druids, you guys rly have no sense of ridiculous, jesus

[Deleted]

But yeah the majority of these insults aren't directed at specific people who started it with you, they seem to be directed personally at all high elf supporters.

Well I have to say I don't see that as insults either.
He is rude, makes himself unsympathic and certainly lacks good behaviour, but insulting is something different.

People should be allowed to express their opinion, even if you don't like it or even if it is objectively a stupid one. That is the base of a society with free speach and it starts in conversations, small forums and ends at the government.



At the end it is totally irrelevant what he as an individual says. Problems occour if one person tries to silence the other one because he doesn't like his opinions.

[lettersandpunctuation]

its a common twitch chat emote, to say someone is crying about something, and tat is exactly what happens, people don't want stick with one fantasy, they want everything, yet i didn't insult anyone, but if the hood serves, what can i do?

Nobody is "crying", and you are not on twitch. Though I think that even in twitch telling someone they are "crying" when they aren't would be seen as an insult, trying to make them seem more childish and unreasonable than they are.

you just quote me talking about shamans, did you forgot so quickly?

Oh, I apologize, I misunderstood you.

I thought when you said

i mean the first one, i didn't even call anyone ridiculous, just the idea of elf shamans

You were talking about the first quote I had of you insulting people.

You indeed were not calling people ridiculous, and I'm sorry if it sounded like I implied you were. You were only saying that "you guys" have no sense of what is and isn't ridiculous. That we are foolish, basically.

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At the end it is totally irrelevant what he as an individual says. Problems occour if one person tries to silence the other one because he doesn't like his opinions.

Certainly he's breaking no rules by being here and saying these things, and I wouldn't want to silence him any more than he'd want people to stop making posts about high elves!

However he himself claimed that he wasn't insulting anyone on this thread and I felt it was worth pointing out that he was, in fact, calling people desperate, raging babies.

[FlubberPuddy]

Aren't Paladins relatively new, lore wise? For some reason I thought Uther was the first paladin... Maybe it was just the Silver Hand that was new.

He was first Human Paladin but Draenei Paladins existed before then just not on Azeroth.

[Traycor]

when people try to shove headcanon and bad fanfic, that pisses me off

High Elves are in the Alliance right now. That's cannon.

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Blizzard yea. You? No. Since they have already said Blood elves are High elves, I think it's pretty clear what you want doesn't fit the game. At least not now.

High Elves are in the game and Blizzard keeps writing them as important story characters for the Alliance side, so they certainly do fit.

As for the quote, he said, "Blood elves are pretty much High elves." In other words, they are similar, which they are. So this thread is for brainstorming different aesthetics to help emphasize the differences that are already there. And maybe demonstrate compromises on further changes that High Elf fans can be happy with.

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Lore-wise there are very few Void Elves too. And Death Knights. And Demon Hunters. These are playable nevertheless.

One step further: there are very few jungle trolls, draenei, and gnomes left. All are playable.

[Gaexion Ramza Beoulve]

It's never gonna happen.

If you want it to happen go to your local gamestore, find a dnd group, start a homebrew game.

That's the closest you will ever come.

I'm trying to save you years of heartache , misery, and unfulfilled desires. Turn away from this mad dream.

[Traycor]

High elves as you knew them now exist as Blood elves.

Highly disagree (see what I did there)

Blood Elves are vampires that suck mana, fel, and even imprisoned a Naru to suck it dry so they could have paladins. They value power and decadence above all else. Fixing the Sunwell doesn't change that. Void Elves are thematically the same. They just sucked void for power instead of mana/fel/light.

High Elves are traditionalists/fundamentalists that believe in the old ways, the old alliances, and refuse to compromise themselves. And they are staunchly against everything the Horde stands for.

[sammygm]

I agree about keeping Priests. What do you think about the compromise of dropping the Paladin class? It was never a theme of the High Elves and only really came into play with the Blood Elves and the Blood Knights.

I may be biased on that part to give you a "yeah that's a fair compromise" . But there are cases of High Elves becoming a Paladin, and there is a case of a High Elf becoming a Paladin in the Third War. Mehlar Dawnblade was a member of the Silver Hand and an apprentice of Uther. And then you have the High Elf Paladins that are members of the Silver Covenant. If the playable High Elves would be Silver Covenant, then I definitely think they should be allowed to be Paladins. But again I'm biased about it since I main a Paladin, and would love to play a High Elf one on the Alliance side.

[Traycor]

I may be biased on that part to give you a "yeah that's a fair compromise" . But there are cases of High Elves becoming a Paladin, and there is a case of a High Elf becoming a Paladin in the Third War. Mehlar Dawnblade was a member of the Silver Hand and an apprentice of Uther. And then you have the High Elf Paladins that are members of the Silver Covenant. If the playable High Elves would be Silver Covenant, then I definitely think they should be allowed to be Paladins. But again I'm biased about it since I main a Paladin, and would love to play a High Elf one on the Alliance side.

Yeah, I've got the same problem with mages. Dropping Arcane classes would be one way to make the High Elves different from Blood Elves, but High Elf Mage is so iconic and it's what I would want to main, so I'm biased.

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@Traycor

Damnit why did I stuble into your thread just yet.

Since it is so long and old and dicussions might have derailed alot, I just want to express my approval and tell you ho awesome your post is.
You put in a lot of work and didn't just copy Blood Elves for high elves but gave them a unique an cool touch.

I like that a lot, awesome work, really!

I would even consider playing one of them instead of my night elves...

Thanks Talime!

Currently we're discussing what classes should be available to High Elves. Blood Elves can be any class but Shamans and Druids, so it's hard to nail down a unique list. It's also hard to whittle down the list of classes because several are iconic. Mage, Priest, Hunter, & Rogue are the most iconic, and Warrior is given to every race. That makes 5, and Paladin is an obvious choice, so 6. Several have mentioned that monks fit, so 7. I think 7 is the most that any allied race has been allowed so far. If we add Shamans to make them different, now we have too many classes, so it's been a compromise game. Personally I think they could dump Warrior. It's an Allied Race, so newbies won't be a consideration.

Other discussions include where High Elves could live or have their home base at. The lodges have been mentioned along with Stormwind and Dalaran. The unused "Northeron" zone has also been discussed, which could be very interesting. My last suggestion was building a new High Elf city over the abandoned crater of Dalaran.

Lore discussions have been ongoing around the Silver Covenant and Highvale Elves.

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As suggested by rogueMatthias:

Also, I feel Silver Covenant has too many ties to the game already with a specific look. I'd call the playable faction "Rangers of Northeron" or something, and they can start in that unused Northern Lordaeron zone.