Official High Elf Discussion Megathread

[elbleuet]

Because none of those are sylvanas sister, case in point

Ok then why Arator wasn't around ? After all, he's her nephew.

because they didn't had any to spare, if you didn't notice, both used a lot their troops in the war campaign, Veressa didn't.

Well, what about Lor'Themar's troops ? He came alone, like he did in Lordaeron. Your point ?

By bringing her high elven glaves in front of Orgrimmar, she proved herself more relevant than him.

she was participating in conjunct effort of horde and alliance to put down Garrosh, anything beyond that is either extrapolation or minimization

Of all the characters the Alliance has to offer, Blizzard chose her to accompany the High King and Jaina.
How lucky she is

[FlubberPuddy]

If "we" always try to minimize, you guys sure will always extrapolate in some way. they "aiding then on several occasions throughout several expansions"

I don't think you can put like 3-5 apparitions(most of then not rly direct against the horde) as several, the problem all lies in how people word it, even the smaller thing people point as being extremely meaningful. In the Us forums by example, what most i saw was people saying 4 glaives and Veressa showing up to face her sister, in the conjunct force of alliance and horde, to be some gigantic proof of how the high elves always are there to fight against the horde for the alliance.

People in both sides will always exaggerate, don't make much sense point fingers in this particular case.

The point is if you compare High Elves to something like Ogres, Ogres may as well be considered non-existent. Where were they in helping the Horde in Wrath? MoP? Legion? BfA? Nowhere.

Yet they're still being requested as a race to be added to the Horde without constant agitators coming in to shit all over the request that it turns into an "us vs them" regurgitation contest.

That's what I'm pointing out. Other races have much less exposure yet are being requested as if they "should be playable" , just like High Elf fans do for High Elves, yet without all the trolls/toxicity of people coming in specifically to stomp the request out.

This goes for Nagas, Hozen, Jinyu and it really shows when it's a race request like San'layn (Undead Blood Elves) where it is 'another elf' option but the agitators against High Elves do not go to agitate the San'layn crew. Presumably because most agitators are Horde players and don't give a shit if it's something being added to "their side".

Pointing out what is happening does make sense because as it's been shown what Blizzard needs to do is not just take in feedback but take in feedback in a contextual manner.

An example: Torghast is amazingly fun despite having elements that the playerbase has been screeching on they hate so much - insane levels of RNG and borrowed/rental powers.

Blizzard can go ahead and be assholes and go "I thought y'all hate this stuff why do you find it so fun now, huh?" but it's because of the context. Torghast being a sectioned off portion of the overall expansion rather than those features being defining for everything within the expansion.

The context matters. Just like here, who are the people that are most agitating against High Elves? Who are the people that want High Elves? What makes these people still request High Elves despite Void Elves existing?

When taken in context instead of painting it with a broad brush "Thalassian Elves exist on both sides you got what you want" then it gets to the meat of the matter.

This is why people like Wildhammer Dwarf fans or Forest Troll fans were not satisfied until increased customizations came.

True, but people point that out because supporters say high elves are diehard pro-alliance and are always aiding then against the horde, but when the D-day is upon us, the pinnacle of the open war, they... aren't. We can speculate(before someone say im affirming something) all we want, but it looks like that since void elves are there, they don't see much reason to use high elves like they did before

Neither are Ogres yet they're still requested. And they have even less exposure among supporting the Horde than High Elves do with supporting the Alliance. Yet there are those that would request Ogres just the same. Or Naga, or etc.

That is my point. That a race isn't required to have the level of exposure High Elves do among the Alliance, people will request what they want to play regardless.

So trying to diminish/minimize that High Elves 'don't actually do much at all' is a defunct argument. No race is required to do so. They give their support and inclusion when Blizzard has already decided within internal meetings 'we want to add this race right now' and then they create the recruitment scenario and explanations after they've decided which options they're going to add in.

But it is High Elves that show up frequently in Alliance matters and continue to be unplayable. And it requires repeating, they mainly show up regarding Alliance matters not when specific race stories are occurring.

[Varodoc]

Did Vereesa haters even play MoP? You can hate her all you want, but it's super disingenuous to claim she's not an important Alliance character.

[Koroniss]

I have a question for all the proponents that keep up the good fight here.

Blizzard is quite pragmatic and minimalist when asset usage/addition is concerned, down to a notorious level IMHO. Contemplating this, I personally find it far more likely for them to opt for further Void Elf customization options and include the requested Alliance High Elf fantasy among those, if they decide to do so at any given future point. Let's say they ultimately close down the issue by adding some additional side lore as to why those Alliance High Elves possess the same racial abilities, emotes and so on as their Void Elven bretheren (teachings by Alleria, etc., the sky is the actual limit here, varying from a future novel plot down to anything as simple as a short developer interview), without basing said lore on an ingame occurrence to keep the cost as low as possible.

Let's go even further and suggest they implement a quick title-like toggle that let's you choose between the Void/High Elf racial text in your character's UI tooltip popup upon selection. Such a mechanic could also be quite useful for other races that boast more than one group/tribe, like trolls, tauren, dwarves, etc., to accommodate for the wider player options the company is going after, and thus the costs for its implementation would not be exclussively related as to the current issue.

Would such a resolution work for you personally? Or would in general anything less than a new individual option in the character creation screen suffice?

[FlubberPuddy]

@Koroniss

So for me there's varying degrees of what >I< would be okay with and I'll put them in the various ways they can do it with what I most want vs what I most would not want.

1) Individual option in character creation labeled High Elves that have their own unique customization / class options / racials / mounts / sillies / flirts.

^ Essentially the Allied Race treatment.

2) High Elf customization options added to Void Elf options so your character can at least look like a High Elf, despite having class options / racials / mounts the same as Void Elves.

^ This is the Wildhammer Dwarf/Forest Troll/Sand Troll/Dark Troll route. Where you can at least look like the kind of character you want and make your own RP about them that diverges from what RP Blizzard has placed in the game for the race option.

3) They do absolutely nothing

^ This doesn't involve 'close down the issue' so it's not really an option but I listed it here to display my varying degrees.

Any other degrees between those are too minuscule that I doubt they would get that nitty gritty into it and precedent with how they're adding in long requested Wildhammer Dwarves and Forest Trolls agrees with this sentiment.

Can we maybe head into a future where they can afford to nuance customization in such a way to those little details you've suggested? Yes, I think with enough time it's possible but we're nowhere close to that at all.

I think they would more likely have to shift to a character customization overhaul 3.0 (SL one is 2.0) where you have the same race options nested within each other. So you'd see something like Humans and within Humans there would be (Stormwind, Gilneas, Kul'Tiran) and each of those will carry their specific group customizations. So for the elves thing it can just be say Elves and incorporate (Night Elves, Void Elves, High Elves) and each would carry their unique group customizations.

This would simplify and actually categorize what is a "race" and what is a "specific faction". This fits with what Ornyx said when he was current CM.

"I don't think it's about their culture not being "primitive", it's more that when you play a Human or a Blood Elf, or any other race for that matter, your character comes from a specific "faction" within that race. This lends them the ability to choose what they want to "be" when they grow up, but only insofar as what that particular society offers.

Playable Humans are always from the nation of Stormwind. Playable Blood Elves are always from Silvermoon. While it's possible for there to be "break aways" in the story and for members of those races to join "opposing factions" and learn new skills, that's not something that's on offer to player characters.

If those classes were ever added to those races, I would expect specific backstory to be created for how those races adopted those techniques and rituals, such as with gnome hunters "creating" and taming mechanical beasts."

https://blue.mmo-champion.com/topic/...od-elf-shaman/

[Uthan]

I have a question for all the proponents that keep up the good fight here.

Blizzard is quite pragmatic and minimalist when asset usage/addition is concerned, down to a notorious level IMHO. Contemplating this, I personally find it far more likely for them to opt for further Void Elf customization options and include the requested Alliance High Elf fantasy among those, if they decide to do so at any given future point. Let's say they ultimately close down the issue by adding some additional side lore as to why those Alliance High Elves possess the same racial abilities, emotes and so on as their Void Elven bretheren (teachings by Alleria, etc., the sky is the actual limit here, varying from a future novel plot down to anything as simple as a short developer interview), without basing said lore on an ingame occurrence to keep the cost as low as possible.

Let's go even further and suggest they implement a quick title-like toggle that let's you choose between the Void/High Elf racial text in your character's UI tooltip popup upon selection. Such a mechanic could also be quite useful for other races that boast more than one group/tribe, like trolls, tauren, dwarves, etc., to accommodate for the wider player options the company is going after, and thus the costs for its implementation would not be exclusively related as to the current issue.

Would such a resolution work for you personally? Or would in general anything less than a new individual option in the character creation screen suffice?

If there's anything voidy still remaining I'm not interested really, and would regardless be a shame to merge the groups into one as it'd just lessen them both imo. I'd much rather see blizzard expand on the story of the High Elf exile groups culture (either bringing them together or focusing on a subset) and build something to set them apart that way, either the Half Elf/mingling with humans angle and have a joint Helf/Half-elf race with more human leaning customisation, or go with the Highvale elves of Quel'danil lodge route and have them stop using magic altogether along with whatever cultural and possibly even physical twists that would bring to differentiate them.

[Susanoo]

I do feel for the people who have wanted High Elves in the Alliance as an allied race. Blizzard adding the Void Elves really was a slap in the face to the players who have constantly asked for them to be added in WoW. Personally, I enjoy my Void Elf Ranger and I'm currently creating his backstory, but blizzard dug themselves into a hole with the adding of the Void Elves instead of the High Elves.

It really all started in Wrath with the adding of the Silver Covenant Faction. Blizzard screwed up big time by creating this faction as it is the largest organization of High Elves still left in the Alliance. Blizzard should of never created this faction at all and should of wrote the lore being that after the restoration of the Sunwell the remaining High Elves returned home. These High Elves would of been the lodge high elves we see in the hinterlands and the plague lands. The Silver Covenant could of still been lead by Vereesa Windrunner but the majority of its make up should of been humans who did not want the Horde in Dalaran. Next, Blizzard regularly includes the High Elves as Alliance NPCs, which is another main argument that High Elf supporters use to support their addition to the Alliance. It makes sense because blizzard regularly pops a High Elf npc up during Alliance quests or campaigns. Blizzard screwed up by separating High Elves and Blood Elves at all, there should have never been a separation, let alone an entire High Elf faction. Then Blizzard's excuse is that the High Elves are not a significant population to be an allied race but they mean to tell us that the Void Elves have a higher population than the High Elves? Another one is that the Blood Elves are High Elves but they clearly made a lore distinction in Wrath that the Blood Elves are not the High Elves.

Finally when Blizzard does decide to give the Alliance the Blood Elf model they do so in the form of Void Elves. Which they could have easily changed it to High Elves joining the Alliance officially and leaving the neutral Kirin Tor with the return of their hero Alleria Windrunner.

Now we are at current day and the Alliance has the Void Elves in place of the High Elves. I do believe that we will never see High Elves in the Alliance unfortunately and my reasoning for that is Blizzard not wanting to add another elf race into the game. Plus the alliance should not have two options for a model that originally belonged to the Horde.

TLDR: Blizzard messed up by creating the separation of Blood Elves and High Elves.

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2) High Elf customization options added to Void Elf options so your character can at least look like a High Elf, despite having class options / racials / mounts the same as Void Elves.

This is what I see Blizzard doing in the future. They will simply add more customizations to Void Elves to make them look like High Elves.

[The Silver Covenant]

Would such a resolution work for you personally? Or would in general anything less than a new individual option in the character creation screen suffice?

Of course. Playing an untainted High Elf within its rightful faction would be better, but Blizzard representatives have stated they expect us to use visuals as the basis of our roleplay. So Void Elves who can toggle their void form in combat like Worgen and their OWN RACIAL LEADER would be fine.

Any race that can be a priest and a warrior should be able to play paladin, though, including Void Elves, who should thus be able to roll paladins regardless of any possible visual improvements.

[Syegfryed]

The point is if you compare High Elves to something like Ogres, Ogres may as well be considered non-existent. Where were they in helping the Horde in Wrath? MoP? Legion? BfA? Nowhere.

Ogres are not on the other faction and they are more utilized as plot device and for villains, ogres troops area thing but we just never see then, most because they don't have females. you still have and do, a lot of quests with then, and even a complete chainquest to recruit an ogre clan in the horde, its almost an allied rac eunlock

It is a complete different case and is nonsense to compare the two

you could compare with undead elves, and they are not playable, and don't will be either.

Yet they're still being requested as a race to be added to the Horde without constant agitators coming in to shit all over the request that it turns into an "us vs them" regurgitation contest.

Because again, ogres are not playable in other faction, Ogres supporters don't headcanon their way based on fanfictions, they don't spam forums

That's what I'm pointing out. Other races have much less exposure yet are being requested as if they "should be playable" , just like High Elf fans do for High Elves, yet without all the trolls/toxicity of people coming in specifically to stomp the request out.

because "exposure" and "numbers" are not the only factors in the equation, its just a mere extra, you guys always focus on those 2 subjects, like disproving will make everything possible.

This goes for Nagas, Hozen, Jinyu and it really shows when it's a race request like San'layn (Undead Blood Elves) where it is 'another elf' option but the agitators against High Elves do not go to agitate the San'layn crew. Presumably because most agitators are Horde players and don't give a shit if it's something being added to "their side".

because there was never a forum breakdown of spam of those races, the san'layn crew at least spam their only one topic like is a diary every couple of hours to make it look like they are relevant

Pointing out what is happening does make sense because as it's been shown what Blizzard needs to do is not just take in feedback but take in feedback in a contextual manner.

and the feedback about high elves they already took, bombard then until their are forced to do what people want is a cheap shot

This is why people like Wildhammer Dwarf fans or Forest Troll fans were not satisfied until increased customizations came.

im pretty satisfied with both honestly.

Neither are Ogres yet they're still requested. And they have even less exposure among supporting the Horde than High Elves do with supporting the Alliance. Yet there are those that would request Ogres just the same. Or Naga, or etc.

And to make it clear, we are never getting those two, blizzard stance with ogres seems more visible, they are either dumb or villains

That is my point. That a race isn't required to have the level of exposure High Elves do among the Alliance, people will request what they want to play regardless.

And i didn't say it was wrong.

But just as the lv of exposure doesn't matter, bringing how much they appear, it will also not matter

But it is High Elves that show up frequently in Alliance matters and continue to be unplayable.

for a good reason

and note, after void elves came, their "frequency" decrease, it only mean one thing to me.

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Ok then why Arator wasn't around ? After all, he's her nephew.

Why Veressa sons aren't there too?

Maybe him being her nephew have not do with him, since he don't have a single connection to her that we saw, they never talk, they were never close.

Well, what about Lor'Themar's troops ? He came alone, like he did in Lordaeron. Your point ?

hum? i saw a lot of blood elves npcs in the game

By bringing her high elven glaves in front of Orgrimmar, she proved herself more relevant than him.

If you count only one scenario in the final patch maybe

Of all the characters the Alliance has to offer, Blizzard chose her to accompany the High King and Jaina.
How lucky she is

Because Jaina as leader of kirin tor/dalaran, can their forces, even to a neutral attack

[FlubberPuddy]

I mean we can go round and round with our points but that's not gonna change anything here.

I saw on US Forums though that the topic of High Elves is still hot in General Discussion. Saw some thread called "High Elf Compromise" with a very high like to post ratio and views in the thousands. Started by someone who I've never seen before and seems neutral on the whole topic.

Compared to many other topics that were on the top bits of GD, the High Elf topic continues to show lots of engagement around it whenever new thread on it are created.

[Obelisk Kai]

I mean we can go round and round with our points but that's not gonna change anything here.

I saw on US Forums though that the topic of High Elves is still hot in General Discussion. Saw some thread called "High Elf Compromise" with a very high like to post ratio and views in the thousands. Started by someone who I've never seen before and seems neutral on the whole topic.

Compared to many other topics that were on the top bits of GD, the High Elf topic continues to show lots of engagement around it whenever new thread on it are created.

The High Elf topic was running red hot this time two years ago as well. Someone in fact wrote this just over two years ago

Yup, as I stated in the other thread, I can't see this recognition of the High Elves for Alliance request leading to nothing at all now. They've finally openly acknowledged the recent incredible demand (I say this because point me to another race that garners this much fervor, both for and against ) and are even encouraging discussion on the matter.

They're also moderating posts that go back and forth and talk about going against the proponents of the High Elf thread by requesting Blue Eye Blood Elves. They want the thread to stay on the topic of whether you are for or against High Elves on Alliance and from my peeks into it, there are many more fresh-faces in support than the fresh-faces against. Exciting times!

And in fact it did lead to nothing at all as a few days Ion delivered the infamous answer. Still the same beats from yourself, emphasis on the supposed 'neutrality' of the posters who are now favoring high elves or that 'many more fresh-faces in support/someone who I've never seen before'. And you accuse me of playing the same old tune...

So whatever happens on this topic, I doubt the prevalence of it in General Discussion is any kind of indicator beyond 'still controversial'. It was a shitshow two years ago, it's a shitshow now, it'll be a shitshow for a while yet.

[FossilFree]

If they are just going to keep throwing everything and the kitchen sink at us with customization options, then throwing some High Elf ones in the mix won't really matter anymore. What is one drop in an ocean? It's not like they will be "stealing an AR slot" or anything like that. Or even get unique racial abilities for that matter.

Although the AR ones likely won't be in the first wave, I fully expect to eventually get tons of options for all elves that could be somehow RPed as High Elves in one form or another. Farstrider Blood Elves, Highborne Night Elves, "Alleria" options for Void Elves, and similar new tones for Nightborne as well. Everyone gets something and nothing is "lost" in terms of ARs since they are only customization options.

[FlubberPuddy]

If they are just going to keep throwing everything and the kitchen sink at us with customization options, then throwing some High Elf ones in the mix won't really matter anymore. What is one drop in an ocean? It's not like they will be "stealing an AR slot" or anything like that. Or even get unique racial abilities for that matter.

Although the AR ones likely won't be in the first wave, I fully expect to eventually get tons of options for all elves that could be somehow RPed as High Elves in one form or another. Farstrider Blood Elves, Highborne Night Elves, "Alleria" options for Void Elves, and similar new tones for Nightborne as well. Everyone gets something and nothing is "lost" in terms of ARs since they are only customization options.

Might be the mantra they're going for. Allied Races will have a lot to look forward to then seeing as they were released with so few options already.

[FossilFree]

Might be the mantra they're going for. Allied Races will have a lot to look forward to then seeing as they were released with so few options already.

Yep, and they can't really ignore the ARs either or else they will seem limited and lame compared to the core ones after they get new stuff.

[FlubberPuddy]

Gonna say it again because it bears repeating, using the WoW forums like system as some form of metric of significance is no bueno.

From the top it only shows the total likes within the entirety of the topic, not how they're distributed, unless you go in and start counting each post for their respective stances and where the likes fall. And the most troubling point being that instead of posting/liking being under a handle/account it is entirely character based which means posts/likes can be artificially inflated by either side by one or more individuals. And both sides have shown plenty of childishness for that to be a plausible scenario.

The significance is it generates a lot of engagement. It's got heated people on both sides that much is clear.

But it doesn't change that the request itself continues to have engagement unlike any other topic. And again it's literally not even by the same people. I used to frequent the official forums a lot more around the Void Elf reveal thru 2018ish.

I look now and it's a lot of fresh faces, from both sides tho I tend to see more familiar ones on the anti-bit.

Pathfinder or Flying at the start is pretty controversial too, but nothing's been on the level of the High Elf request.

And the topic at this much of a controversy didn't spark so big until ~2017? 2018?

Before then you didn't have multitudes of threads being created and locked and reported etc from BOTH SIDES of the argument (there's just as many 'High Elves should not be a thing' threads as they're are people making requests for em).

At this point though I just am gonna reiterate I don't see the purpose of the anti-side anymore.

Before it was that 'you're going to take customizations from us that can be ours' but Shadowlands is looking like Blood Elves will get those customizations anyway.

So at that point what does it really matter if playable High Elves do happen? Especially if Blizzard in the end does give unique customization to have an option of High Elves for Alliance?

It does not affect the story of Blood Elves, what their progression/society has gone through and the customization options that will be available to them.

A lot of detractors like to say "you just want our Blood Elves on Alliance" but what's going to be the argument then when Blood Elves get their plethora of options and people still ask for Alliance High Elves?

Just seems pointless at that point from a detractors pov. Right now I can at least understand not wanting High Elves because of thinking customizations will be put on them (if they were a thing) over Blood Elves. After that it doesn't really make sense.

Blizzard can incorporate Alliance High Elves in a way that is different than Blood Elves. Just as we see with Nightborne and Night Elves.

And before anyone jumps in trying to say 'the lore has them no different' we're at a point where customization options take precedence over lore. Also that Blizzard created an entirely new look for Kul'Tirans when they stayed the same until BFA.

Blizzard will not let what exists today stop them from implementing whatever they want in the future.

[Strippling]

It wasn't post-TBC, it was already established in WC3:

"Despite the high elves' official departure from the Alliance, some elves still remain true to their former human and dwarven allies. The altruistic priests of Quel'Thalas refused to abandon their roles as healers and agreed to remain in Lordaeron despite the edicts from their reclusive masters in Silvermoon. The high elven priests use their Light-given powers to heal the wounded and bolster the spirits of Lordaeron's fighting elite."

- Reign of Chaos manual, page 10

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The SC massacred the Sunreavers not for the Kirin Tor but for the interests of the Alliance. Also, they seek to bring the Kingdom of Quel'thalas back to the Alliance.

There's Yvera Dawnwing, Frostfencer Seraphi, and 7th Legion Battlemages in Stromgarde, and some High Elf Ballistae in the Siege of Orgrimmar 2.0

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Also I don't care if things blur faction lines or not, I want my Alteraci Humans to the Horde

The SC was created as an opposition to the Sunreavers who rejoined Dalaran (ie not an Alliance city). No, Varessa wishes to bring back Quel'thalas to the Alliance. If I'm wrong then please quote the SC NPCs who state this.

Yvera Dawning and Frostfencer Seraphi do not appear to be a part of the SC. The 7th legion battlemages (all 2? of them) are representing the 7th legion. The high elf ballistae are not even manned by high elves. There are no high elven forces in the Siege of Org 2.0. Where are the forces of the SC? No where to be found. According to the pro side, the SC is a "large" group... so where is this "large" group in the war? I can't see them. I see plenty of void elves participating in the war though.

I care about blurring faction lines, so does Blizzard. Alteraci humans would blur faction lines so I highly doubt they'll ever be a thing on the Horde (nor would I want them to be as humans are a key part of the Alliance, not the Horde).

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The request is extremely reasonable and there is no difference between void elves and blood elves in full armor besides the color of the nameplate.

That's a subjective opinion. To you and pro high elfers it comes across as a reasonable request, but to me and many many other players (including Blizzard) it's not a reasonable request as the request in itself is asking to blur faction lines... which is a core part of WoW.

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Vereese, their leader, did show up though to fight Sylvanas.

Renzik "The Shiv" (aka the SI7 goblin) acted as a spy in Orgrimmar during BfA and was also part of the SI7 forces in the Battle for Lordaeron. This goblin had more involvment in the war than Vareesa or any other high elf NPC.

Looks like a goblin is more core to the Alliance than the high elves. But why are alliance players asking for playable goblins? Answer: because they don't look as good as blood elves.

[Obelisk Kai]

If they are just going to keep throwing everything and the kitchen sink at us with customization options, then throwing some High Elf ones in the mix won't really matter anymore. What is one drop in an ocean? It's not like they will be "stealing an AR slot" or anything like that. Or even get unique racial abilities for that matter.

Although the AR ones likely won't be in the first wave, I fully expect to eventually get tons of options for all elves that could be somehow RPed as High Elves in one form or another. Farstrider Blood Elves, Highborne Night Elves, "Alleria" options for Void Elves, and similar new tones for Nightborne as well. Everyone gets something and nothing is "lost" in terms of ARs since they are only customization options.

There is a fatal flaw in this reasoning. Let us first clarify what this is really aiming at, high elf like skin tones on Void Elves.

Highborne Night Elves are just ordinary Night Elves after all. Farstrider Blood Elves are just Blood Elves coupled with a job description, like Blood Knight Blood Elves or Magister Blood Elves or Plumber Blood Elves. Customisation options that might be rooted in this particular aspect of a race should therefore not be seen as implausible or uncontroversial.

High Elf like skin tones on Void Elves, however, aren't a foregone conclusion by any means. The most obvious reason is that Void Elves look different for a reason, to distinguish them from currently existing Blood Elves. Had Void Elves not been differentiated it is probable the Alliance wouldn't have received a thalassian elf option at all. Common sense dictates that undermining the rationale as to why Void Elves exist in the first place might not be a course of action they wish to pursue.

Now we can look at what they actually are adding and what they are not to the core races. The Dwarves are getting wildhammer style tattoos as well as the rest of the human skin tone range. The Trolls are getting several new skin tones, some of which are the tones used by Sand Trolls and Forest Trolls.

But Dwarves and Trolls in the core races are generic, every(wo)man Dwarves and Trolls. They are not on the character creation screen as Bronzebeard Dwarves and Darkspear Trolls after all. Nothing about them right now contradicts being a Troll or Dwarf from any other tribe or clan. The jokes are racially generic. The flirts are racially generic. The racials are, well racially generic. You can feasibly roleplay a Dwarf or Troll from almost any other clan or tribe and it works with the generic Dwarves and Trolls within the Core races.

Yet Void Elves are not a core race, they are an allied race and many allied races are limited by the highly specific nature of their origins. Nor can those origins be obfuscated through exile's reach, as exile's reach pointedly excludes Void Elves and all other Allied races. So while Exile's Reach may facilitate a Wildhammer Dwarf, Revantusk Troll, or a Draenei from Outland fantasy, it can never be extended to reinterpreting the origins of the Allied races.
The Void Elf origin is extremely specific in that they were transformed by the power of the void and their current aesthetic is reflective of that. Their jokes, their flirts and their racials are all reflective of their void origin. Altering the aesthetic won't alter their jokes, their flirts or their racials (yet I can easily see a further campaign to have those changed so the aesthetic be altered). It will still be a Void Elf. The first time entropic embrace procs on a Void Elf with high elf like skin will shatter the suspension of disbelief.

The reason people will be able to get away with Wildhammer and Revantusk roleplay is that those choices won't go against the grain of the races, and they won't go against the grain of the races because the core races are fairly generic in terms of origin. The Allied races are not like that. Dark Iron Dwarves aren't going to get an ordinary Dwarf option. Mag'har Orcs aren't going to get green skin. Nightborne will not be given Night Elf options. So the expectation that Void Elves will get to look like the core Horde race they were deliberately differentiated from is based on the faintest of hopes, one developer stating it was possible.

A long time ago Ion Hazzikostas said high elves were possible too as a sub-race.

And then they sat down and thought about it.

[Xath]

The SC was created as an opposition to the Sunreavers who rejoined Dalaran (ie not an Alliance city). No, Varessa wishes to bring back Quel'thalas to the Alliance. If I'm wrong then please quote the SC NPCs who state this.

Yvera Dawning and Frostfencer Seraphi do not appear to be a part of the SC. The 7th legion battlemages (all 2? of them) are representing the 7th legion. The high elf ballistae are not even manned by high elves. There are no high elven forces in the Siege of Org 2.0. Where are the forces of the SC? No where to be found. According to the pro side, the SC is a "large" group... so where is this "large" group in the war? I can't see them. I see plenty of void elves participating in the war though.

I care about blurring faction lines, so does Blizzard. Alteraci humans would blur faction lines so I highly doubt they'll ever be a thing on the Horde (nor would I want them to be as humans are a key part of the Alliance, not the Horde).

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That's a subjective opinion. To you and pro high elfers it comes across as a reasonable request, but to me and many many other players (including Blizzard) it's not a reasonable request as the request in itself is asking to blur faction lines... which is a core part of WoW.

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Renzik "The Shiv" (aka the SI7 goblin) acted as a spy in Orgrimmar during BfA and was also part of the SI7 forces in the Battle for Lordaeron. This goblin had more involvment in the war than Vareesa or any other high elf NPC.

Looks like a goblin is more core to the Alliance than the high elves. But why are alliance players asking for playable goblins? Answer: because they don't look as good as blood elves.

Good lord you are disingenuous. You know damn well that alliance players are asking for silver covenant based on the years before bfa. Nobody gives a fig for the trainwreck of lore that is bfa. Now explain why horde is allowed to have purple night elves instead of them being made flesh colored I'll wait.

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There is a fatal flaw in this reasoning. Let us first clarify what this is really aiming at, high elf like skin tones on Void Elves.

Highborne Night Elves are just ordinary Night Elves after all. Farstrider Blood Elves are just Blood Elves coupled with a job description, like Blood Knight Blood Elves or Magister Blood Elves or Plumber Blood Elves. Customisation options that might be rooted in this particular aspect of a race should therefore not be seen as implausible or uncontroversial.

High Elf like skin tones on Void Elves, however, aren't a foregone conclusion by any means. The most obvious reason is that Void Elves look different for a reason, to distinguish them from currently existing Blood Elves. Had Void Elves not been differentiated it is probable the Alliance wouldn't have received a thalassian elf option at all. Common sense dictates that undermining the rationale as to why Void Elves exist in the first place might not be a course of action they wish to pursue.

Now we can look at what they actually are adding and what they are not to the core races. The Dwarves are getting wildhammer style tattoos as well as the rest of the human skin tone range. The Trolls are getting several new skin tones, some of which are the tones used by Sand Trolls and Forest Trolls.

But Dwarves and Trolls in the core races are generic, every(wo)man Dwarves and Trolls. They are not on the character creation screen as Bronzebeard Dwarves and Darkspear Trolls after all. Nothing about them right now contradicts being a Troll or Dwarf from any other tribe or clan. The jokes are racially generic. The flirts are racially generic. The racials are, well racially generic. You can feasibly roleplay a Dwarf or Troll from almost any other clan or tribe and it works with the generic Dwarves and Trolls within the Core races.

Yet Void Elves are not a core race, they are an allied race and many allied races are limited by the highly specific nature of their origins. Nor can those origins be obfuscated through exile's reach, as exile's reach pointedly excludes Void Elves and all other Allied races. So while Exile's Reach may facilitate a Wildhammer Dwarf, Revantusk Troll, or a Draenei from Outland fantasy, it can never be extended to reinterpreting the origins of the Allied races.
The Void Elf origin is extremely specific in that they were transformed by the power of the void and their current aesthetic is reflective of that. Their jokes, their flirts and their racials are all reflective of their void origin. Altering the aesthetic won't alter their jokes, their flirts or their racials (yet I can easily see a further campaign to have those changed so the aesthetic be altered). It will still be a Void Elf. The first time entropic embrace procs on a Void Elf with high elf like skin will shatter the suspension of disbelief.

The reason people will be able to get away with Wildhammer and Revantusk roleplay is that those choices won't go against the grain of the races, and they won't go against the grain of the races because the core races are fairly generic in terms of origin. The Allied races are not like that. Dark Iron Dwarves aren't going to get an ordinary Dwarf option. Mag'har Orcs aren't going to get green skin. Nightborne will not be given Night Elf options. So the expectation that Void Elves will get to look like the core Horde race they were deliberately differentiated from is based on the faintest of hopes, one developer stating it was possible.

A long time ago Ion Hazzikostas said high elves were possible too as a sub-race.

And then they sat down and thought about it.

Yet horde received a night elf model without skin color change ... wait antis don't like to talk about that.

[Obelisk Kai]

Good lord you are disingenuous. You know damn well that alliance players are asking for silver covenant based on the years before bfa. Nobody gives a fig for the trainwreck of lore that is bfa. Now explain why horde is allowed to have purple night elves instead of them being made flesh colored I'll wait.

The Horde didn't have an ongoing multi year campaign begging for a duplicate of a Horde race for one thing. My educated guess was that they knew they were going to give the Alliance some kind of high elf subrace in the subrace system for the post Legion expansion and they seeded Nightborne to justify why the Horde would have that. And then they decided they couldn't give the Alliance a duplicate of a Horde race so they made them a variant as well.

Yet horde received a night elf model without skin color change ... wait antis don't like to talk about that.

Which we got at the same time as the Alliance received a high elf model with a skin colour change. What's your point? You got a variant of a Horde race, we got a variant of an Alliance race. You will note Nightborne are NOT the same as Night Elves, just as Void Elves aren't the same as Blood Elves.

[Maxilian]

Saw this new mount, and first though: "Hey, an HD version of the HE Unicorn mount!"