1. #15561
    Quote Originally Posted by Ardenaso View Post
    800 pages test
    you are weak. that is why you will never receive high elves mwa ha ha
    If you are particularly bold, you could use a Shiny Ditto. Do keep in mind though, this will infuriate your opponents due to Ditto's beauty. Please do not use Shiny Ditto. You have been warned.

  2. #15562
    Bloodsail Admiral Aldo Hawk's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sataraism View Post
    I'm a silent reader of this thread ever since it was created, I barely ever comment on anything but I felt I had to throw my support out there to pro high elf community. I main void elf and I doubt I would ever create a high elf if they choose to add them as a sepparate race or option for existing void elf.
    However, I couldnt believe that some people would go out of their way to make sure someone else doesnt get something they have. I'm flabbergasted.
    Isnt it nice to have more options for every race? Specialy the ones that already are in the game? And please, not everyone feels fine hopping on the horde train.
    What it looks like to me is- I have a toy and I'm the only one entittled to have it, therefore no1 else can have my toy. Its childish, mean and it only shows the real chattacter behind the avatar.
    Clearly the fact that most lurkers and newcomers come here supporting for it while pointing out at the side of those against as something selfishly toxic should be... Not telling... But a revelation for some. Can these people ever learn to not be so hardcore into gatekeeping something they have been demonstrated to not have the reason to again and again?

  3. #15563
    The Lightbringer Ardenaso's Avatar
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    I really can't fathom why people want all Alliance High Elves to be Void Elves like that literally defeats their purpose as to why they even rejected the fel crystals/vampirism in the first place. Sure there may be some but this is where you actually put the argument that they're the exceptions not the rule.

    And going against the High Elf Paladins - High Elves were already part of the Church of the Holy Light pre-WC3 and there's no premise nor basis to why they would have a reason to not be Paladins

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    Quote Originally Posted by LilSaihah View Post
    you are weak. that is why you will never receive high elves mwa ha ha
    see my signature, I'm actually lowkey anti-helfer but I'm staying here to refute anyone's wrong arguments or point out their personalities/moralities/characters as to why they are radical pro/anti-helf jihadists

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    800 pages oh boy
    The Alliance gets the Horde's most popular race. The Horde should get the Alliance's most popular race in return. Alteraci Humans for the Horde!

    I make Warcraft 3 Reforged HD custom models and I'm also an HD model reviewer.

  4. #15564
    Does Obelisk Kai even talk about anything else on this forum or is he just in this thread? Lmao. Such a stupid hill to die upon.

  5. #15565
    Quote Originally Posted by Ardenaso View Post
    see my signature, I'm actually lowkey anti-helfer but I'm staying here to refute anyone's wrong arguments or point out their personalities/moralities/characters as to why they are radical pro/anti-helf jihadists
    then why do you have a high elf avatar? secret high elf confirmed.

    ngl lightbound orcs sound awful tbh
    If you are particularly bold, you could use a Shiny Ditto. Do keep in mind though, this will infuriate your opponents due to Ditto's beauty. Please do not use Shiny Ditto. You have been warned.

  6. #15566
    The Lightbringer Ardenaso's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by LilSaihah View Post
    then why do you have a high elf avatar? secret high elf confirmed.

    ngl lightbound orcs sound awful tbh
    see my signature again. I wanted Apprentice Wizard but there's no existing icon of it online. Jennalla's cute enough to be my dream redhead waifu so she's temporary.

    why not? Lightbound Orcs are actually cool

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    I could change it to the Blood Elf Swordsman but he's not twink/bottom enough for me

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    nvm thank Elune someone made a Blood Elf Thalorien Dawnseeker skin
    The Alliance gets the Horde's most popular race. The Horde should get the Alliance's most popular race in return. Alteraci Humans for the Horde!

    I make Warcraft 3 Reforged HD custom models and I'm also an HD model reviewer.

  7. #15567
    Quote Originally Posted by Alanar View Post
    Nope you are wrong. If you come with things like from vanilla on.. then atleast get it right. What you are talking about are some warcraft 2 units which were playable yes. Vanilla wow never had playable high elves, and old alpha model of nigjt elves was also for high elves because they didnt had a model for them.

    But no burning crusade was the very first moment afther warcraft 3 when high elves were playable.. renaming themselves into blood elves.. the rest is history.

    No its not a matter of fair or unfair... this is just how it is.. you are talking about blood elves joining the horde through sylvanas back in bc. You have any idea how many years ago that was? That unfair /fair argument lost its value long ago man.
    My bad, it was a NPC moved here in TBC, around the time I started playing : https://wow.gamepedia.com/Fiora_Longears

    But as you can see, a High Elf NPC, hostile to the Horde, friendly with the Alliance.

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    Quote Originally Posted by LilSaihah View Post
    It sounds like you want to play Draenei or Lightforged if having a stick up your ass is your jam
    Well, I had a Draenei main for the longest time. But I don't find the High Elves to have a stick up her ass. They are simply principled, unlike the elves of the Horde.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Ardenaso View Post
    I really can't fathom why people want all Alliance High Elves to be Void Elves like that literally defeats their purpose as to why they even rejected the fel crystals/vampirism in the first place. Sure there may be some but this is where you actually put the argument that they're the exceptions not the rule.
    Agreed.

    Which is probably why even Blizzard didn't use High Elves to create the Void Elves. They knew that having any HE group seeking the power of the Void was against their lore and absolute foundations as a different faction compared to the Blood Elves.

    But it also adds to the fact that Void Elves can't be a compromise when it comes to the High Elf request.

  8. #15568
    Quote Originally Posted by Pennem View Post

    Regardless, there's still High Elves in the Alliance today. Blizzard keeps adding them alongside the Alliance. And players keep requesting them.

    I don't think the request is going to go away as long as they keep doing that. If you want something to go away then typically you don't continue acknowledging it. But even when the Void Elves were fresh on the heels of release there was acknowledgement from devs that High Elves were a separate from Void Elves, and even Blood Elves.

    While Ion's comment has been the most upheld by toxic posters. Several other Blizzard developers have acknowledged High Elves are not in the game and that either they're possible for Alliance to get, or they know it's a community favorite request, or that (in their own opinion) they don't see why their shouldn't be High Elves added.

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    Yeah something must've triggered them all to come out of the wood works at once lol

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    I don't think they actually believe that, it's just another way to spread toxicity without being overt about it. Almost like giving backhanded compliments.

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    Or people can y'know just move on? Nothing's forcing anyone to stay here and you haven't been involved in this convo for over 200+ pages I think so it's not as if you've constantly been here or anything.

    what a strange way to put it.

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    Until I can play my Silver Covenant then Alliance High Elves are not playable. End of that!
    It seems to be that Blizzard just doesn't believe this topic is as important as many want it to be to them. They keep putting high elf npcs in the game because they see it working for their story. They're not going to say to themselves, 'oh gee....maybe we shouldn't put high elves in the game because it might give false hope to a few people who still believe they're getting high elves on the alliance.'

    Also, could you and others here just please stop with the antagonistic false accusations of toxicity, among other insulting terms?
    Blood Elves are High Elves!

  9. #15569
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    Quote Originally Posted by Pennem View Post
    Until I can play my Silver Covenant then Alliance High Elves are not playable. End of that!
    sums up nicely what this fanatic thread is all about. Now you know why anti helvers hate people like you .. because there is in no way to reason with, just pushing it until some one gets mad. Very healthy thread.

    The selfish whiny high elf thread.. gratz.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Varodoc View Post
    Does Obelisk Kai even talk about anything else on this forum or is he just in this thread? Lmao. Such a stupid hill to die upon.
    Same can be said about your obsession.. so just rlx oke ??

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    Quote Originally Posted by Starla View Post
    It seems to be that Blizzard just doesn't believe this topic is as important as many want it to be to them. They keep putting high elf npcs in the game because they see it working for their story. They're not going to say to themselves, 'oh gee....maybe we shouldn't put high elves in the game because it might give false hope to a few people who still believe they're getting high elves on the alliance.'

    Also, could you and others here just please stop with the antagonistic false accusations of toxicity, among other insulting terms?
    Maybe they read this thread and just likes to slap you guys in the face with that, I say it's justified.
    Last edited by Alanar; 2020-04-18 at 03:56 PM.

  10. #15570
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    Quote Originally Posted by Starla View Post
    Also, could you and others here just please stop with the antagonistic false accusations of toxicity, among other insulting terms?
    I'm not sure why you're accusing others of things when it's plain to see moderation happening in this thread. If there's problem posts then report it.

  11. #15571
    Honestly I still don't get why void elves are former blood elves instead of former high elves. If you ask me, they should've been a group of high elves who followed Alleria and were turned with her into void elves. It would've made things so much easier.

  12. #15572
    Quote Originally Posted by Varodoc View Post
    Honestly I still don't get why void elves are former blood elves instead of former high elves. If you ask me, they should've been a group of high elves who followed Alleria and were turned with her into void elves. It would've made things so much easier.
    If Alleria had an army with her, Army of the Light wouldn't have to save her and Turalyon.
    https://www.mmo-champion.com/threads...lopment-thread
    Quote Originally Posted by Nevcairiel View Post
    If you are suggesting to take my Night Elfs Shadowmeld away, then please find some pike to run yourself through, tyvm.

  13. #15573
    Quote Originally Posted by Ardenaso View Post
    I really can't fathom why people want all Alliance High Elves to be Void Elves like that literally defeats their purpose as to why they even rejected the fel crystals/vampirism in the first place. Sure there may be some but this is where you actually put the argument that they're the exceptions not the rule.

    And going against the High Elf Paladins - High Elves were already part of the Church of the Holy Light pre-WC3 and there's no premise nor basis to why they would have a reason to not be Paladins

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    see my signature, I'm actually lowkey anti-helfer but I'm staying here to refute anyone's wrong arguments or point out their personalities/moralities/characters as to why they are radical pro/anti-helf jihadists

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    800 pages oh boy
    While we disagree on a lot of things, the first part is definitely where we agree the most. I want something different and unique done with High elves which stays true to their lore. High elves REJECTED dark magic even at it's darkest for moral reasons, refusing to compromise what they thought was right. Having them go and use the most evil magic in the universe kinda defeats the point of High elves. That's why I always hated Void elves as a "compromise". It's no compromise, it's Blood elves 2.0 in the Alliance.

    A compromise would have been High elves turning to nature, or being altered by Arcane magic or something.
    And yes, High elves, the actual Silver covenant, not some Blood elf exiles.

  14. #15574
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    Quote Originally Posted by Varodoc View Post
    Honestly I still don't get why void elves are former blood elves instead of former high elves. If you ask me, they should've been a group of high elves who followed Alleria and were turned with her into void elves. It would've made things so much easier.
    It definitely would've and that's what a lot of people were suggesting so that at least Alliance High Elves are given further direction and even more legitimized in the Alliance. Similar to how Dark Irons joined Alliance in Cataclysm and Anduin says during AR recruitment this is just formalities.

    I still think it wouldn't make a whole lot of sense because High Elves being as they are today are because they didn't want to rely on chaotic magics over their Blood Elf brethren, and Void is sort of like another side of the coin regarding chaotic magic.

    But nope, they settled on it being Blood Elves, even Ion saying 'something like a Blood Elf' and completely missed the point of why High Elves are a major request for Alliance players.

    Seeing how they're handling the addition of Wildhammer Dwarves and Forest Trolls/Sand Trolls/Dark Trolls etc it's clear they see these minor differences as customizations worth implementing but not being beholden to having to also explain why they're there. Players will do that.

    In that same vein, High Elf fans want to be able to play their version of what a "Wildhammer Dwarf" or "Forest Troll" is and be able to come up with their own reasons. The only way this will work is if the option is available in some way on the Alliance.

    Whatever customizations come to Blood Elves does nothing for the High Elf request, because the High Elf request itself is about the Alliance faction - not the Horde faction.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Gurluas View Post
    it's Blood elves 2.0 in the Alliance.

    A compromise would have been High elves turning to nature, or being altered by Arcane magic or something.
    And yes, High elves, the actual Silver covenant, not some Blood elf exiles.
    Exactly. It shows how much they missed the mark.

  15. #15575
    Quote Originally Posted by Varodoc View Post
    Honestly I still don't get why void elves are former blood elves instead of former high elves. If you ask me, they should've been a group of high elves who followed Alleria and were turned with her into void elves. It would've made things so much easier.
    It wouldn't make sense for High Elves to seek the Void, which is at least as corruptive as the Fel, really.

  16. #15576
    My original idea for void elves is that they were a group of Allerian Expedition that got stranded with Alleria. Then an incident happened and they all got turned into void elves. That'd make things a lot more emotional too, because they weren't seeking shadowy powers and got turned into corrupted elves (the worst dream of a high elf).

  17. #15577
    Legendary! Obelisk Kai's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Uthan View Post
    Generally I would agree, but when what one developer states (even be it the game director himself) is completely contrary to what is shown in the actual game by the other developers, it feels more like a personal opinion than an official company-wide stance.
    As long as the game keeps portraying Blood Elves and High Elves as different things I'll take the stance of the developers actually in charge of blood/high elf story/content over a snarky response to a question in a Q&A. Actions speak louder than words imo. Or maybe they've been changing their minds back and forth and that's why things seem so contradictory, they should probably clarify things if so.
    Which is itself a subjective viewpoint. Your argument hinges on this idea that Blood Elves and High Elves are distinct groups. Which they are. Politically distinct. In the same fashion, the Scarlet Crusade and the Defias Brotherhood are politically distinct groups of humans portrayed with unique ideologies and command structures.

    Does their existence and non playable status mean Humans aren't playable? Is there a need for these groups to be made playable so that players can finally have the true Human gameplay experience? Does the fact they aren't playable mean that any developer who states Humans are playable and a core race of the Alliance should be disregarded as having 'only stated their opinion?'.

    Blood Elves are High Elves and so High Elves are playable. Some high elves, a very tiny group, didn't go along with the majority of their race but that doesn't mean the end result is that high elves aren't playable, in just means high elves who aren't blood elves aren't playable. Humans who aren't Scarlet Crusade aren't playable either.
    The political difference was highlighted by Ion. It's also become increasingly pushed to the forefront of pro high elf rhetoric as the whole 'Blood Elves have green eyes, High Elves have blue eyes' argument began to crumble. Yet it isn't enough. Story isn't enough to overcome the importance of maintaining distinct factions.

    Nor is the occasional use of this group for story purposes weighed with any significant meaning beyond that use. If their presence makes sense within a particular story then they should be utilised, though given their clear replacement by the Void Elves as the obvious foil for the Blood Elves I expect such instances to decline.
    And no, they haven't changed their minds. The body of commentary established on this topic stretches back a decade and a half now (a fifth of an average human lifespan). This is actually one of the topics they have been the most consistent on.

  18. #15578
    Quote Originally Posted by Pennem View Post
    I'm not sure why you're accusing others of things when it's plain to see moderation happening in this thread. If there's problem posts then report it.
    Well thank you very much for such a polite reply.
    Blood Elves are High Elves!

  19. #15579
    Bloodsail Admiral Sharby's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Starla View Post
    He's written postings like everyone else here, helfers post with as much length as he does, why make it insulting by saying 'countless essays'?
    If you want to know why all you have to do is read his posts.
    Yeah I agree, I don't get it, the title of the thread is High Elf Discussion not High Elf Fan-Thread.



    If you're tired of repeating yourself stop responding and block the people you think are toxic, its really that simple. But chasing away dissenting opinions and telling people to read over 700+ pages of discussion before they're allowed to speak is so stupid lmao.


    I am a Pro-Helfer too (I like options,) but I don't that Obelisk person has done anything egregiously toxic and I've been lurking the thread for awhile. They're annoying maybe, and way too invested in speaking out against the topic imo, but that's their right.
    Honorary member of the Baine Fanclub, the only member really.

  20. #15580
    Moderator Aucald's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Obelisk Kai View Post
    Yet that is entirely subjective. Have elf fans in general been catered for in this game? There are currently two basic models of elf with two variants of each model with each faction having access to one variant of each model. Any fair outside appraisal should therefore conclude that elf fans, with access to four options across both factions, are well served.

    You can contrast this with the experience of Werewolf fans. Not only must Werewolf fans within the Horde do without, but Alliance players (who do have access to Werewolves) have access to only one model of Werewolf whereas Alliance elf fans have access to two distinct types of Elves.
    True, if we were talking about "Elf fans," which in this context we're not. If you were just a fan of Elves in the general sense you'd have quite a lot going for you between Elves of Blood, Void, Night, and Nightborne varieties. But we're talking about a more specific ask, and I think you know that (at this point you'd sort of have to). And like I said originally, it's an open question as to whether it's a deserved ask; but the request has been made all the same. It's been made for a long time, ever since the halcyon days of Classic WoW, when players first set eyes on High Elven exiles with their weird low-res models at the time.

    Quote Originally Posted by Obelisk Kai View Post
    Void Elves were an answer to the request for high elves in the Alliance. They have been defined as a different flavour of high elf, and something like a Blood Elf. The change that Void Elves underwent was a necessary pre-requisite for them to be added in the first place. While faction diversity, identity and integrity are abstract values when compared to the idea of 'let people play what they want to play', they are still values that matter tremendously.
    "An" answer, yes, but in my estimation missing the mark pretty significantly from "the" answer. I would call them a different flavor of Blood Elf, myself, given that Umbric and his people were Blood Elves before they became Void Elves. I won't argue that the change was a prerequisite for them to shift factions from Horde to Alliance, either; but they still don't answer the original request because they're a different people on two levels of abstractions (one as former Blood Elves, another as altered by the Void into Void Elves). Now, whether or not one values faction identity or integrity over letting people play what they want to play truly is a subjective opinion.

    Quote Originally Posted by Obelisk Kai View Post
    Rather than celebrate they got a result as close as they did to high elves with Void Elves in spite of Blizzard publicly defending the values of distinct factions, they have chosen to interpret it as a 'defeat' or a 'slap in the face'. Despite multiple elven options, those who insist the demand has not been met refuse to accept the validity of the reasoning as to why they didn't get their ideal. And it seems only the ideal will do, even something as close as a Void Elf, for whom a personal lore explanation can be constructed that has them begin as a Silver Covenant member (in line with Moorgard's recent comments on the validity of headcannoning whilst roleplaying), is not enough.
    The surfeit of options is not the problem, and never really was - the failure to facilitate the original request is the crux of the problem. The demand has categorically not been met, therefore it's understandable that those who value the prospect might be disappointed by the outcome. It would be akin to wanting a Playstation 5 for Xmas, but your parents instead get confused and buy you an XBox Series X instead. Both of them play modern gen games, sure; and they've got similar hardware, but it's not what you asked for or wanted. YMMV as to the severity of the proverbial recipient's reaction, but I think anyone can see where the problem is.

    As for the more in-game rationale I still have not been sold on any reason why the existing High Elves exiles weren't chosen as opposed to the Void Elves. I've heard the many arguments, but all of them strike me as arising from a place of seeming Horde entitlement to both Blood and High Elves in the general sense. Stripped of long-winded explanation, the argument seems like "Blood Elves are High Elves, both Blood and High Elves are ours, and we will not part with them and the developers stand by it." Which, on the face of it, does seem to be how things are going - but it still feels like an entitled argument to me, and I can understand why those who want playable High Elven exiles on the Alliance side are by degrees upset by that outcome.

    Quote Originally Posted by Obelisk Kai View Post
    Should explicit, one hundred percent confirmation be provided of the obvious, that Void Elves can turn other Elves into Void Elves (and thereby completely meet the demand of those who seek an explicit SC lore origin), do you really expect that to sate this community in lieu of the actual aesthetic?
    A transformed Void Elf from Silver Covenant High Elf is still not meeting the original request - it's closer, sure, and for some people it may be enough to satiate them, but it isn't the same thing and has the same lens of abstraction as the above, only one removed. I also doubt it will happen for several reasons, though I admit the possibility.
    Last edited by Aucald; 2020-04-18 at 05:20 PM.
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