Official High Elf Discussion Megathread

[FlubberPuddy]

I mean faction conflict? Nothing more intense between fans than High elf vs Blood elf. And they're wasting it ... lol

Exactly, a lot of what you've said simply works out by itself. And it's fairly obvious to see that happening in the community right now, where it's mostly fans of Blood Elves who show a level of animosity unlike any other towards the request. And on the flip side a lot of the most ardent defenders of the request happen to be Alliance fans.

Seems like a cop out then to say 'no no we have more faction integrity by not allowing two fictional groups who tend to butt heads/kill each other by only allowing players to play one side of it!"

Again, I think because it was looks that were prioritized and probably stemming from because fans of Blood Elves simply want customizations that have been suggested here, for themselves. Not unlike Night Elf fans requesting for Highborne looks and having some come in to say Nightborne are the Highborne (how ironic is that?). That's why I want to see what occurs after Blood Elves get their extra customizations.

As the High Elf request will continue to happen after increased customizations, it will destroy the "you just want the look" argument because if that's all the requesters wanted then the majority would move over to play Blood Elves and the request would die out.

Won't happen though, just like how there's been Blood Elves in the game for years and those requesting High Elves haven't just all moved over to playing Blood Elves when they finally were included in the game.

This request would not be a thing if Blood Elves were ever the answer to the High Elf request.

It's kind of like the other requests for the game: the unpruning, the less rng, the return of tier sets because of their looks not necessarily set bonuses, getting pvp vendors back where you can purchase pvp gear.

All major requests have very specific asks and don't go away with the majority until it's been granted to a strikingly satisfying degree.

And no Void Elves are clearly not the "strikingly satisfying degree" seeing as they're twice-removed from High Elven Exiles, are ex-Blood Elves, and go against the very background of why High Elves separated from their Blood Elven brethren in the first place: going all-in on use of chaotic magics.

[Gurluas]

they left after WCII except for a very small few.

Just adding a note to this: The majority of that lore was added Post-TBC. Even in Wc3 High elves/Blood elves were predominantly Alliance, and after the Blood elves left due to Garithos the High elves remained as seen in Vanilla. The later lore was added to justify giving an Alliance race to the Horde.

[FlubberPuddy]

Ion said it himself recently in the recent interview by sloot when asked about Covenants. CHOICE MATTERS.

Just have to point this out because it's so god damn on the nose I can't help myself.

It's funny that you use this as an argument to prevent High Elves when you were admonishing and screeching to the high heavens that locking the covenant ability to Covenants is bad design and shouldn't be happening and that they need to change it.

Where was "CHOICE MATTERS" then? Only when it suits your personal interests right?

This is frank evidence of someone who's position is only ever to be part of the status quo, that is: whatever the majority population are saying at the time.

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Just adding a note to this: The majority of that lore was added Post-TBC. Even in Wc3 High elves/Blood elves were predominantly Alliance, and after the Blood elves left due to Garithos the High elves remained as seen in Vanilla. The later lore was added to justify giving an Alliance race to the Horde.

Yup. And as Matthew Rossi from Blizzard Watch pointed out. WoW lore writers do this often. Creating the lore during a later time to explain situations that have already come or happened before then.

[Venziir]

They're not core to the Alliance. The SC (ironically who you've named yourself after) are more loyal to the Kirin Tor than the Alliance, hence why the SC were not participants during the faction war in BfA. They honored the neutral position of the Kirin Tor. If they were core to the Alliance then they would have been active members of the Alliance during this faction war, alas they were not and thanks to BfA it is evident where their allegiances lie first and foremost.

Vereese, their leader, did show up though to fight Sylvanas.

[Ardenaso]

Just adding a note to this: The majority of that lore was added Post-TBC.

It wasn't post-TBC, it was already established in WC3:

"Despite the high elves' official departure from the Alliance, some elves still remain true to their former human and dwarven allies. The altruistic priests of Quel'Thalas refused to abandon their roles as healers and agreed to remain in Lordaeron despite the edicts from their reclusive masters in Silvermoon. The high elven priests use their Light-given powers to heal the wounded and bolster the spirits of Lordaeron's fighting elite."

- Reign of Chaos manual, page 10

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They're not core to the Alliance. The SC (ironically who you've named yourself after) are more loyal to the Kirin Tor than the Alliance, hence why the SC were not participants during the faction war in BfA. They honored the neutral position of the Kirin Tor. If they were core to the Alliance then they would have been active members of the Alliance during this faction war, alas they were not and thanks to BfA it is evident where their allegiances lie first and foremost.

The SC massacred the Sunreavers not for the Kirin Tor but for the interests of the Alliance. Also, they seek to bring the Kingdom of Quel'thalas back to the Alliance.

There's Yvera Dawnwing, Frostfencer Seraphi, and 7th Legion Battlemages in Stromgarde, and some High Elf Ballistae in the Siege of Orgrimmar 2.0

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Also I don't care if things blur faction lines or not, I want my Alteraci Humans to the Horde

[Traveler Voltin]

Yet we literally have the same race on both factions and no one has complained since Pandaren were introduced...and look at Nightborne, they made them unique and a lot of players were angry that they don't look just like the Nightborne which look more like Night Elves...

Now either Horde players don't care or Horde players are hypocrites, which is it?

high elves and blood elves are the same race so they look the same.

nightborne are not the same race as night elves. Nightborne were mutated.
also blizzard hates neutral races and will never do it again.

[The Silver Covenant]

blah blah ... Blood Elves are High Elves is not a truth as easily discounted as you would like... muh filler rhetoric

Why does it always take you so many words to reveal that you don’t know anything about Warcraft’s character or brand? High Elves are, always have been, and always will be at the core of Warcraft’s Alliance.

[Ielenia]

Faction pride is good, don't get me wrong - but it should not stand in the way of a good story. That's my main gripe with this odd entitlement that the Horde has on the playability of the High Elven exiles. It's a story I personally want to see explored, and reintroducing the Blood Elves' oldest "enemies" would be the best way to further that story. It's a faction story, too; giving it a wide best of both worlds appeal.

There would be more conflict stories to play out, since Blizzard like to play the Alliance vs Horde stories, with High Elves now prominent in the Alliance. One big story hook that I like to mention is how, with High Elves in the Alliance, there could be a competition to lay claim to high elven artifacts and location, as both groups (HE and BE) would claim that those pieces of ancient history would belong to them, not to the other group. This is one type of story hook that can't be really explored with void elves, since those elves are more focused on studying and mastering the void than caring about their own history and legacy.

[Frenchvince]

also blizzard hates neutral races and will never do it again.

There will no longer be a "neutral race" issue with the new character creation update.
We will have the choice between the pandaren of the horde or the pandaren of the alliance.

The High Elf NPCs are not neutral but already in the alliance, so even if they are of the same race as the Blood Elves, now it is quite possible that they will be added in the future.

[FlubberPuddy]

There will no longer be a "neutral race" issue with the new character creation update.
We will have the choice between the pandaren of the horde or the pandaren of the alliance.

The High Elf NPCs are not neutral but already in the alliance, so even if they are of the same race as the Blood Elves, now it is quite possible that they will be added in the future.

The removal of "Core Race" and "Allied Race" distinction is interesting, as well as removal of "Neutral" section for the Pandas. They now literally showcase Alliance Panda and Horde Panda with exact same icon.

I still think it's too early to say this is the finalized version. But if they are indeed loosening up those distinctions in the character creation screen then it's clear they're looking to overall the amount of character customization given.

There's simply SO MUCH space there between the character you're customizing and the race icons that I wouldn't be surprised if this is future-proofing for adding 1-2 more columns of races.

Again though it's not finalized so I would wait to see how much it appears to change between the builds.

[Frenchvince]

The removal of "Core Race" and "Allied Race" distinction is interesting, as well as removal of "Neutral" section for the Pandas. They now literally showcase Alliance Panda and Horde Panda with exact same icon.

I still think it's too early to say this is the finalized version. But if they are indeed loosening up those distinctions in the character creation screen then it's clear they're looking to overall the amount of character customization given.

There's simply SO MUCH space there between the character you're customizing and the race icons that I wouldn't be surprised if this is future-proofing for adding 1-2 more columns of races.

Again though it's not finalized so I would wait to see how much it appears to change between the builds.

I like this version because barriers have fallen to leave more possibilities for future additions.
I think the biggest part is done, it only remains to add the missing customizations and the sliders of certain options like eyes, body / face tattoo.

[Varodoc]

I would not look too much into the pandas no longer being a neutral race, since they no longer start in the Wandering Isle (where they had the quest to choose the side).

[Syegfryed]

Vereese, their leader, did show up though to fight Sylvanas.

in the moment both factions united to put Sylvanas down.

[Xath]

This is disingenuous. It's your subjective opinion that void elves violate the same pillar of the game. Objectively they don't, as Blizzard has given us sufficient explanation as to why alliance high elves are not a playable option, they are too similar to blood elves (aesthetically) and would blur faction lines. It's pretty clear that blizzard prioritize physical differences as a key distinguishing feature between playable races. Some ARs are very similar to their parent races but these parent races are within the same faction. Void elves on the other hand were given a completely different thematic to blood elves (a void thematic) to provide a sufficient level of physical distinction so as to not blur faction lines.

From a "lore" perspective there isn't much distinction between the two, but gameplay wise (and subsequently aesthetically) they are different and are so at a first glance. Players with a deep knowledge of lore can obviously differentiate between blood elves and high elves, but in general the playerbase at large probable views blood elves as the high elves of WoW. And blizzard intended it to be this way, as we have both Ion and Chris Metzen who have offered comments supporting this view.

This doesn't change the fact the void elves didn't hit the mark that pro high elfers were hoping for, but reality is Blizzard deemed it an inappropriate request in the sense that blood elves are high elves and as such the race is already available, and they don't wish to blur faction lines.

It would be easy enough for blizzard to have copy pasted blood elves, given them blue eyes and made them an alliance AR and said "here's your long asked for alliance high elves". But they didn't. And here's an honest question for you... why do you think Blizzard didn't just do that? Responding with "they were clueless, they make mistakes or they are Horde biased" is a disingenuous response. WoW developers work full time on this game, some of them for many many years. You are being dishonest if you think blizzard are not aware of what the exact request was.

Further to what Obelisk said regarding faction pride, I agree with him. WoW has been created in a way where it tries to encourage some sort of pride for a specific faction. This pride stems from a myriad of reasons, including but not limited to faction leaders, faction policies, faction structures, the races which constitute each faction, faction aesthetics and faction thematics. Why is it so wrong to have faction pride and appreciate a key feature of WoW "faction uniqueness". Instead we get called toxic or trolls (in which you omittely support as you don't call out pro high elfers who say we're toxic) simply because we appreciate an integral aspect of WoW. I've never said alliance high elves don't exist, I've just stated that they would directly or indirectly detract from the high elven group (both aesthetically and racially) that are and have been playable on the Horde.

I agree with you, void elves were not the answer high elfers were looking for... but it's clear what Blizzards stance on the request is. You can request something but that doesn't mean the request is reasonable (with overall gameplay in mind).

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Dark troll customizations does not blur faction lines. Unless somehow trolls are also an alliance race?

Likewise, wildhammer tattoos does not blur faction lines. Last I checked dwarves were an alliance race, and as such wildhammer tattoos does not infringe on a Horde race.

The high elf race however is a core Horde race. Void elves have been given a niche and unique thematic to differentiate them from their parent race, so naturally any future customizations they may get will likely respect that differentiation

The request is extremely reasonable and there is no difference between void elves and blood elves in full armor besides the color of the nameplate.

[Highelf]

in the moment both factions united to put Sylvanas down.

Moving those goal posts again.

[Xath]

Moving those goal posts again.

Just mention that she is present for the award ceremony after hitting prestige rank 2 for alliance and watch their heads spin trying to justify that one.

[FlubberPuddy]

Just mention that she is present for the award ceremony after hitting prestige rank 2 for alliance and watch their heads spin trying to justify that one.

They'll always try to minimize it too in some way. Not realizing that if High Elves can be considered as barely doing anything for the Alliance (despite aiding them on several occasions throughout several expansions* and having members as part of the 7th Legion) then half the requested races not playable have done shit all for the Horde or Alliance. What great contributions have Ogres made? Or Hozen?

Also the Allied Races added didn't do shit for Alliance or Horde until after they joined up, meaning there's no hardline pre-requisite that a race must have done something of great value to have been decided to be added to the greater factions.

*No other non-playable race in the history of WoW has done this aside from High Elves. There is no consistent group of unplayable NPCs on the Horde that support their endeavors unlike the High Elves for the Alliance.

[Aldo Hawk]

Just mention that she is present for the award ceremony after hitting prestige rank 2 for alliance and watch their heads spin trying to justify that one.

And also when they mention that Elisande said they are diluting their bloodlines and aren't worthy of being called High elves and also implying that most of them aren't even High elves anymore, (obviously ignoring the fact that she is taunting the three elf raid groups) just say that Varian Wrynn was bent and broken at the broken shore, begging for his life, whimpering like a worthless dog.

Out of context phrase full of spite:

(Timestamps doesn't work here )

At 2:49


Reality:
At 2:33

Gul'dan seemed frustrated while obliterating Varian, he was not able to break his spirit afterall.

Whimpering so much like a worthless dog while saying he sacrificed himself for the Alliance yes

But well, dishonesty is what it is, meh, who can understand such a stance on anything

[Syegfryed]

They'll always try to minimize it too in some way. Not realizing that if High Elves can be considered as barely doing anything for the Alliance (despite aiding them on several occasions throughout several expansions* and having members as part of the 7th Legion)

If "we" always try to minimize, you guys sure will always extrapolate in some way. they "aiding then on several occasions throughout several expansions"

I don't think you can put like 3-5 apparitions(most of then not rly direct against the horde) as several, the problem all lies in how people word it, even the smaller thing people point as being extremely meaningful. In the Us forums by example, what most i saw was people saying 4 glaives and Veressa showing up to face her sister, in the conjunct force of alliance and horde, to be some gigantic proof of how the high elves always are there to fight against the horde for the alliance.

People in both sides will always exaggerate, don't make much sense point fingers in this particular case.

But what i said is isn't rly "minimize", she, alone, only show up to face sylvanas, not to fight the horde, she didn't even brought her troops, you can say that she was just fighting for the alliance against the horde with her 4 glaives, but to me, she was more there because she is Sylvanas sister

Also the Allied Races added didn't do shit for Alliance or Horde until after they joined up,

True, but people point that out because supporters say high elves are diehard pro-alliance and are always aiding then against the horde, but when the D-day is upon us, the pinnacle of the open war, they... aren't. We can speculate(before someone say im affirming something) all we want, but it looks like that since void elves are there, they don't see much reason to use high elves like they did before

[elbleuet]

I don't think you can put like 3-5 apparitions(most of then not rly direct against the horde) as several, the problem all lies in how people word it, even the smaller thing people point as being extremely meaningful. In the Us forums by example, what most i saw was people saying 4 glaives and Veressa showing up to face her sister, in the conjunct force of alliance and horde, to be some gigantic proof of how the high elves always are there to fight against the horde for the alliance.


True, but people point that out because supporters say high elves are diehard pro-alliance and are always aiding then against the horde, but when the D-day is upon us, the pinnacle of the open war, they... aren't. We can speculate(before someone say im affirming something) all we want, but it looks like that since void elves are there, they don't see much reason to use high elves like they did before

Velen, Turalyon, Tyrande, Malfurion, Maiev, Moira, Falstad, Muradin and Mekkatorque were not present. Vereesa was. And brought her glaves with her.

Also :

But what i said is isn't rly "minimize", she, alone, only show up to face sylvanas, not to fight the horde, she didn't even brought her troops

That's funny because Jaina and Genn Greymane did not brought their troops either. This is not an argument.

Vereesa was there because she's an important Alliance character, and because of course, she's Sylvanas' sister.

When she was present at the first Siege of Orgrimmar 8 years ago when Sylvanas was only the Banshee Queen and Alleria missing, was it because she was Alleria's sister ? Or Sylvanas' sister ? Both ?