Official High Elf Discussion Megathread

[Frenchvince]

Huh?

Did you notice that the blood elves didn't get the farstrider face / body tattoo option?
It wouldn't surprise that this option (in addition to blue eyes) should be reserved for the high elves because a hero of the alliance wears it.

[matrix123mko]

Did you notice that the blood elves didn't get the farstrider face / body tattoo option?
It wouldn't surprise that this option (in addition to blue eyes) should be reserved for the high elves because a hero of the alliance wears it.

Do you think that tattoos were invented after exile of high elves?

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Huh?

They associate with their home. In a manner that they want their entire nation to be banished from there so they can live in Silvermoon with their human overlords for eternity.

[Frenchvince]

Do you think that tattoos were invented after exile of high elves?

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They associate with their home. In a manner that they want their entire nation to be banished from there so they can live in Silvermoon with their human overlords for eternity.

We don't care who invented it before or after. It's the alliance that has this option with just an important character who is a high-elf / void elf.
Blue eyes + farstrider tattoos, it's already 2 options not available for blood elves.

[Strippling]

Implying Alleria isn't a void elf.

Alleria is a void elf who underwent a completely different transformation than playable void elves.

Just like how Sylvanas was a forsaken yet the playable forsaken were raised humans of Lordaeron, not raised high elves.

The playable void elves are very specifically different to Alleria, in that their transformation resulted in a different "end form" to Alleria's.

[Varodoc]

Alleria is a void elf who underwent a completely different transformation than playable void elves.

Just like how Sylvanas was a forsaken yet the playable forsaken were raised humans of Lordaeron, not raised high elves.

The playable void elves are very specifically different to Alleria, in that their transformation resulted in a different "end form" to Alleria's.

"After a year of tireless research in the knowledge kept within Telogrus Rift, Umbric and a few of his people have learned how to revert back to their high elven form."

There, problem solved.

[Strippling]

You show that you either forget or ignore that not all high elves are blood elves.

We don't ignore that. We just recognize that despite there being an extremely minor group of high elves aligned with the Alliance it doesn't change the fact the high elf race is a core race of the Horde, and making this minor group playable on the Alliance impedes on the playable uniqueness of the high elven group that has been on the Horde since TBC.

Didn't stop the Mag'har.

Mag'har did not cross faction bound

Didn't stop the Highmountain.

HMT did not cross faction boundaries.

Didn't stop the Kul'tirans.

KT did not cross faction boundaries.

Didn't stop the Zandalari.

Zandalari did not cross faction boundaries.

Yeah. Like the night elves. But that didn't stop the nightborne now, did they?

Nightborne were an equivalent trade for void elves. A Horde elf for an Alliance elf, both given minor aesthetical changes to offer some level of differentiation to their parent race, both being transformed from their parent race. Alliance aligned high elves wouldn't fit the bill.

But not all high elves are blood elves.

Doesn't change the fact the high elf race is a core race of the Horde, thus the minor group of exiles aligned with the alliance are relegated as NPC's only so as to avoid blurring faction lines. Making them playable would make the high elf race de-facto neutral, which is not fair to Horde players or blood elf players at that.

Which was shaken already by the existence of the pandaren, and then finally toppled by the addition of void elves and nightborne. "Faction diversity" became a dead excuse with the allied races.

You say this

for reasons explained time and time and time and time and time and time and time and time and time and time and time and time and time and time and time and time and time and time and time and time and time and time and time and time and time and time and time and time and time and time and time and time and time and time and time and time again.

Yet, its been explained time and time and time and time and time again that:

A)Pandaren were introduced as neutral, key word being introduced. The high elf race on the other hand was made playable on the Horde in TBC. To now make a group of high elf exiles on the Alliance playable would make the high elf race de-facto neutral, which is completely different to the Pandarens who were introduced as neutral from the very start. Again, apples to oranges. The Pandaren situation is completely irrelevant to this debate, a more comparable situation would be making Alteraci humans playable on the Horde... which would make the human race de-facto neutral and would blur faction lines,

and B) void elves and nightborne were an equivalent trade. Both were the elf model of each faction given to the other faction, both given aesthetical differences to their parent race, both being transformed from their parent race, both thematically different to their parent race. Again, high elves wouldn't have fit the bill as thematically and aesthetically they are the exact same as blood elves. They aren't physically transformed from blood elves either. The only difference is one of political view, which Blizzard don't view as enough to differentiate the two.. they clearly focus on aesthetic and thematic changes when it comes to implementing new playable races (ARs included). And in the case where aesthetic and thematic changes are minor from the parent race, they are typically then backed with 1000s of years of lore differentiation (such as HMT to normal tauren).

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"After a year of tireless research in the knowledge kept within Telogrus Rift, Umbric and a few of his people have learned how to revert back to their high elven form."

There, problem solved.

"After years of aiding the alliance but with little to no reward, the alliance high elf exiles realize that their future lies in re-uniting with their kin in Silvermoon and have decided to join their kin under the banner of the Horde".

There, problem solved.

Sorry but your "problem solver" implies a deviation from the void thematic of the void elves, which is A) what they're all about and B) is what makes them distinct enough in the first place to be an AR. Pealing away their unique void thematic only makes them blood elf... or is that what you want?

[Varodoc]

We don't ignore that. We just recognize that despite there being an extremely minor group of high elves aligned with the Alliance it doesn't change the fact the high elf race is a core race of the Horde, and making this minor group playable on the Alliance impedes on the playable uniqueness of the high elven group that has been on the Horde since TBC.



Mag'har did not cross faction bound



HMT did not cross faction boundaries.




KT did not cross faction boundaries.




Zandalari did not cross faction boundaries.




Nightborne were an equivalent trade for void elves. A Horde elf for an Alliance elf, both given minor aesthetical changes to offer some level of differentiation to their parent race, both being transformed from their parent race. Alliance aligned high elves wouldn't fit the bill.




Doesn't change the fact the high elf race is a core race of the Horde, thus the minor group of exiles aligned with the alliance are relegated as NPC's only so as to avoid blurring faction lines. Making them playable would make the high elf race de-facto neutral, which is not fair to Horde players or blood elf players at that.




You say this



Yet, its been explained time and time and time and time and time again that:

A)Pandaren were introduced as neutral, key word being introduced. The high elf race on the other hand was made playable on the Horde in TBC. To now make a group of high elf exiles on the Alliance playable would make the high elf race de-facto neutral, which is completely different to the Pandarens who were introduced as neutral from the very start. Again, apples to oranges. The Pandaren situation is completely irrelevant to this debate, a more comparable situation would be making Alteraci humans playable on the Horde... which would make the human race de-facto neutral and would blur faction lines,

and B) void elves and nightborne were an equivalent trade. Both were the elf model of each faction given to the other faction, both given aesthetical differences to their parent race, both being transformed from their parent race, both thematically different to their parent race. Again, high elves wouldn't have fit the bill as thematically and aesthetically they are the exact same as blood elves. They aren't physically transformed from blood elves either. The only difference is one of political view, which Blizzard don't view as enough to differentiate the two.. they clearly focus on aesthetic and thematic changes when it comes to implementing new playable races (ARs included). And in the case where aesthetic and thematic changes are minor from the parent race, they are typically then backed with 1000s of years of lore differentiation (such as HMT to normal tauren).

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"After years of aiding the alliance but with little to no reward, the alliance high elf exiles realize that their future lies in re-uniting with their kin in Silvermoon and have decided to join their kin under the banner of the Horde".

There, problem solved.

Sorry but your "problem solver" implies a deviation from the void thematic of the void elves, which is A) what they're all about and B) is what makes them distinct enough in the first place to be an AR. Pealing away their unique void thematic only makes them blood elf... or is that what you want?

Alleria has pink skins and 100% feels like a void elf.

Also, my explanation actually is not far-fetched, as Umbric chose Telogrus Rift as his base of operations due to the knowledge of the void kept within there.

Next.

[Strippling]

They have relinquished their claim on this name, which now is used only by the Alliance affiliated thalassian elves who don't dabble into dangerous and volatile magic. The Alliance thalassian elves who do dable in the most corruptive form of magic however, are all former Blood Elves and are now called Void Elves.

- Quelithian lodge elves.

- Alleria dabbled with the void, a dangerous magic.

- Vareesa was willing to join her sister in the Undercity (a city of death which in and of itself is a dangerous and volatile place), if it were not for her kids.

[Gaexion Ramza Beoulve]

lol you people still on about this shit? I hope they just give blue eyes to blood elves and call it a day. Then this ridicules crap can come to an end.

Good News Everyone!

[RangerDaz]

That seems unlikely. The transformation from Blood/high elf to Void Elf involves an immense amount of energies changing the very essence of the being. Even were it possible (and as it has never been demonstrated in lore it must be regarded as purely hypothetical) the end result would NOT be a Void Elf (nor would it necessarily be a Blood/high elf, nobody knows what could happen). As it would not be a Void Elf, it would make no sense for such an avatar to have Void Elf racials, void elf emotes or be described as being a Void Elf.

I do not believe it is too far fetched to say that whatever customizations Void Elves do end up getting, that they will still be Void Elves.

You do know that you just need Ion or another wow decision maker to give the order to make this (any-) thing happen, just like they created void elves out of thin air

Having Alliance High Elves with the void elf starting screen and racials is a bit cringy, but if blizzard has choosen this path to give more subrace options as extra costumizations, well it is better than nothing. but at least they should give a visual animation update to the void elf racials for high elves.

[FlubberPuddy]

Good News Everyone!

It's cute that some people think the High Elf request will stop because of that.

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Having Alliance High Elves with the void elf starting screen and racials is a bit cringy, but if blizzard has choosen this path to give more subrace options as extra costumizations, well it is better than nothing. but at least they should give a visual animation update to the void elf racials for high elves.

Pretty much this. And Danuser's response on top of why they aren't adding any extra lore bits to explain the options backs that up as well.

[Ielenia]

We don't ignore that.

Yes, you do. Because you keep insisting on this "blood elves are high elves" nonsense that only serves to muddle the conversation.

Nightborne were an equivalent trade for void elves.

Which is completely irrelevant to the topic being discussed, if you cared to check.

Doesn't change the fact the high elf race is a core race of the Horde

Didn't stop the void elves, did it? The night elves are also a "core race" of the Alliance, but didn't stop the nightborne.

Yet, its been explained time and time and time and time and time again that:

A)Pandaren were introduced as neutral, key word being introduced.

And the key word here is irrelevant, whic is what you wrote there is. It doesn't matter if the pandaren were introduced as "neutral" or not because that is irrelevant to the discussion. The thalasian elven race will not become "neutral" if high elves were added as a playable race. It didn't happen when void elves were introduced, it won't happen when high elves are introduced. And you know why? Because the thalassian race is not neutral. It is divided.

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- Vareesa was willing to join her sister in the Undercity (a city of death which in and of itself is a dangerous and volatile place), if it were not for her kids.

Holy "taking things out of context", Batman! Veressa wasn't joining the Horde. She wanted OUT of the conflict because she was suffering the loss of her husband.

[FlubberPuddy]

It's funny that in my previous post I mentioned your bad habit of taking only a snippet of information and repurposing it out of context because in your response you've taken only a snippet and repurposed it out of context. I have to assume you have no valid rebuttals for the other points raised.

Nope it's not that. But whatever helps you sleep at night. It's because you have a habit of regurgitating the same information that people (including me) here have already read/debated/analyzed/scrutinized etc etc over and over and over and over and over already.

This is what happens in discussions with you:

Someone: makes statement about high elves should be playable.

Obelisk Kai: makes counter statement repeating what's been said.

Someone: refutes your counter statement bringing in evidence/data to support their counter to your counter.

Obelisk Kai: repeats what's already been said.

Someone: refutes your parroting by bringing in evidence/data that they didn't use originally.

Obelisk Kai: repeats what's already been said.

There's no point in continuing to engage someone like you on points that have already been discussed.

What you see as "assume you have no valid rebuttals" is actually avoiding getting dragged back in to your circular discussion. Have you noticed in my responses toward you now I don't retread topics, instead talking about new things like a new T&E/Bellular video or data-mining and not previous older news that have already been discussed in this thread? It's to avoid circular discussion.

That seems to be the only way you can continue posting, going back to circular discussion. It might be a great pastime activity for you, but I assure you not many do. I certainly do not.

But if you wish to think otherwise for another reason, go entirely ahead if it brings you some solace.

[Alanar]

Alleria has pink skins and 100% feels like a void elf.

Also, my explanation actually is not far-fetched, as Umbric chose Telogrus Rift as his base of operations due to the knowledge of the void kept within there.

Next.

Funny how it seems you didn't even read what he wrote, because hes right 100%. You just shift in and out these elf treads without even responding when there are people puttng you on the facts.

NEXT.

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Yes, you do. Because you keep insisting on this "blood elves are high elves" nonsense that only serves to muddle the conversation.

All blood elves are high elves, not all high elves are blood elves, thats the saying and it's actually a fact.

Not counting new blood elf kids.. they are obviously not high elves.

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It's cute that some people think the High Elf request will stop because of that.
.

This is in fact quite scary.

input overly obsessed girlfriend picture here.

[FlubberPuddy]

This is in fact quite scary.

input overly obsessed girlfriend picture here.

Your snarky comment doesn't change that blue eyes on blood elves isn't what the High Elf request is about. Which is why even multiple media personalities have stated so.

Nothing 'obsessive' about wanting to play a race that's continually features as part of the Alliance.

Do you go to threads about people asking for Ogres and indirectly call them 'overly obsessed girlfriend yikes!!!' ? Y'know, people who have been asking for a race just as long as the High Elf request peeps.

[Strippling]

Yes, you do. Because you keep insisting on this "blood elves are high elves" nonsense that only serves to muddle the conversation.

Blood elves are our high elves... that is a fact and it's fundamental to this topic. And the fact that it "muddles the conversation" (in your terms) is indicative that playable alliance high elves would "muddle" the faction lines, or in other words, blur faction lines.

Didn't stop the void elves, did it? The night elves are also a "core race" of the Alliance, but didn't stop the nightborne.

Why do you think both void elves and nightborne were given aestehtical and thematical changes to differentiate them from their parent race? The night elves are core to the Alliance, I agree, hence why the Horde weren't given night elves they were given nightborne... a variant to night elves both aesthetically and thematically. Similarly, void elves were given to the Alliance as opposed to high elves because they are aesthetically and thematically different to blood elves, unlike the alliance high elf exiles.

And the key word here is irrelevant, whic is what you wrote there is. It doesn't matter if the pandaren were introduced as "neutral" or not because that is irrelevant to the discussion.

It does matter that pandaren were introduced as neutral. Your comparing apples to oranges, the pandaren situation is not the high elven situation... it happened under completely different circumstances.

Holy "taking things out of context", Batman! Veressa wasn't joining the Horde. She wanted OUT of the conflict because she was suffering the loss of her husband.

I didn't take anything out of context. Manariel has this notion that alliance aligned high elves are these seemingly spotless elves who "don't meddle with dangerous and volatile magics unlike their evil blood elf kin". I was simply showcasing that we have a group of high elves who destroyed themselves due to playing with dangerous magical artifacts, we have Alleria who was a high elf that dabbled deep into the void (dangerous magic) and we have Vareesa who was willing to ditch her "alliance" allies to live with her undead sister in an undead city who operates under the banner of the Horde. Doesn't matter what she was going through, the fact is she was willing (key word being willing) to ditch her "morals" at a time of despair and hardship. Does that sound familiar to the blood elves? Alliance aligned high elves aren't so different to their high elf kin on the Horde, they are after all the same race so it's only natural. Alliance high elves are everything a horde high elf is, minus the political affiliation. It's why their addition as playable would blur faction lines.

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Your snarky comment

That's hypocrital dude, you've been snarky toward me and other "anti's" as of late. Don't be a hypocrite.

Another shit attempt at making an argument. Please try harder.

This was straight out of your proverbial mouth to me. Again, don't be a hypocrite.

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Do you go to threads about people asking for Ogres and indirectly call them 'overly obsessed girlfriend yikes!!!' ? Y'know, people who have been asking for a race just as long as the High Elf request peeps.

You don't see people spamming the threads asking for Ogres like high elfers do. In saying that though I wouldn't classify high elfers as obsessive, more so that they're just not willing to understand how the request is unreasonable as it'd blur faction lines and detract from the uniqueness of the high elves already playable on the Horde. Then these same high elfers jump onto threads and start promoting high elf skins for void elfs, again an unreasonable request that would A) detract from the theme of void elves and B) effectively make void elves into blood elves aesthetically, which goes back to the same issue at hand.. detracting from the uniqueness of the high elf race already playable on the Horde.

The only reasonable requests I've seen personally are a half-elf option or having the SC become void elves but maintain the void aesthetics (ie blue skin tones and dark hair colors). These options would allow alliance players to play the elves that have "always been with the alliance" whilst maintaining a sufficient level of distinction so as to not impede on the blood elf aesthetic or thematic. The issue though is that not many high elfers seem to care about these two options, which shows that the desire is more for the aesthetic and as such they're not willing to compromise. If that's their request (for the aesthetic all along) then it is what it is, but the request is most certainly unreasonable in terms of detracting from the unique experience offered to the high elf race on the Horde (who comprise the vast majority of the high elf race in WoW).

[FlubberPuddy]

You don't see people spamming the threads asking for Ogres like high elfers do.

One contained thread is not spam. We're far from back when there were lots of new different people making high elf threads. Now they're relegated to one just about.

What we're seeing more of is the one thread on official forums will get report abused, thus requiring another one to open up. Why report abuse in the first place? Because there's a set of agitators who can't help but get themselves into fights on the internet over people requesting high elves.

We're also now seeing more threads about 'against high elves' than the one single ones active for them. You keep talking about spam but for instance this forum itself contains only this thread.

You can find many more recent anti-helf spam threads than pro high elf threads.

[Strippling]

One contained thread is not spam. We're far from back when there were lots of new different people making high elf threads. Now they're relegated to one just about.

What we're seeing more of is the one thread on official forums will get report abused, thus requiring another one to open up. Why report abuse in the first place? Because there's a set of agitators who can't help but get themselves into fights on the internet over people requesting high elves.

We're also now seeing more threads about 'against high elves' than the one single ones active for them. You keep talking about spam but for instance this forum itself contains only this thread.

You can find many more recent anti-helf spam threads than pro high elf threads.

The official forums constantly has a high elfer making a new thread every other day, even when the "contained thread" is up and running.

And as to your question about why people report the high elf threads as spam, well I don't know as I don't participate in the official forums.. but I'd wager that much of the community on the official forums are tired of seeing constant threads about the same request and as such likely report any new high elf thread as spam. When multiple threads about the same request are made, then it is spam.. plain and simply spam. The new threads that pop up after one is banned don't bring anything new to the table, they literally just re-post saying "support for high elves". Again, this is spam.

This forum admittedly does a good job at maintaining the discussion to one thread, though I credit that to the MMO-champ moderators being more active at closing any "spam" threads than the official forum moderators are.

And in regards to the anti threads on the official forums, from what I've seen they seem to get closed down as frequently as the pro high elf threads do. Likely due to their also being spam. Again, I don't get involved in the official forums so it's beyond my care what happens there. But from what I've seen, any thread on the official forums about high elves as of late is plain and simply spam, and as such I personally don't see the issue with that community flagging those threads as spam.

[Ielenia]

Blood elves are our high elves... that is a fact and it's fundamental to this topic.

That is immaterial to the discussion at hand. And you should drop it because I could just easily say "the night elves are the highborne" but now we have nightborne. Who are highborne as well, and call themselves as such.

And the fact that it "muddles the conversation" (in your terms) is indicative that playable alliance high elves would "muddle" the faction lines, or in other words, blur faction lines.

Blizzard already did so with pandaren and the allied races.

Why do you think both void elves and nightborne were given aestehtical and thematical changes to differentiate them from their parent race?

Both got minimal differences that are rendered null and void with the way armor covers the player's model. The nightborne, even LESS differences. You literally cannot differentiate one from the other out in the game world before the game tells you which one they are by the color of their outline and name. But if that bothers you so much: the high elves already have thematic differences, so all we have to do is give them minimal aesthetic differences, to the level of nightborne, to satisfy you.

It does matter that pandaren were introduced as neutral. Your comparing apples to oranges, the pandaren situation is not the high elven situation... it happened under completely different circumstances.

And the thalassian elves would not become neutral if high elves became playable, so I don't know why this insistence on "neutral race" nonsense.

I didn't take anything out of context.

Veressa was not leaving the Alliance to join the Horde. She was leaving to join her sister because she was hurting and wanted at least a semblance of a stable family. She was not going to join the Horde.

[Kyriani]

The official forums constantly has a high elfer making a new thread every other day, even when the "contained thread" is up and running.

And as to your question about why people report the high elf threads as spam, well I don't know as I don't participate in the official forums.. but I'd wager that much of the community on the official forums are tired of seeing constant threads about the same request and as such likely report any new high elf thread as spam. When multiple threads about the same request are made, then it is spam.. plain and simply spam. The new threads that pop up after one is banned don't bring anything new to the table, they literally just re-post saying "support for high elves". Again, this is spam.

This forum admittedly does a good job at maintaining the discussion to one thread, though I credit that to the MMO-champ moderators being more active at closing any "spam" threads than the official forum moderators are.

And in regards to the anti threads on the official forums, from what I've seen they seem to get closed down as frequently as the pro high elf threads do. Likely due to their also being spam. Again, I don't get involved in the official forums so it's beyond my care what happens there. But from what I've seen, any thread on the official forums about high elves as of late is plain and simply spam, and as such I personally don't see the issue with that community flagging those threads as spam.

To be fair... most of the High Elf related topics I've seen popping up on the forums for some time now seem to be started by people who don't actually care about High Elves one way or the other, but get off on trolling in general. They just make a post to stir the pot because they know a bunch of pro and anti helfrs will show up, take the bait, and entertain them with their inevitable back and forth. Half the time they never even make a second post in the thread they started.