Official High Elf Discussion Megathread

[Varodoc]

The fact that mechagnomes are getting more customizations means that void elves will likely get more too!

Also datamine confirmed that those new eyes customization options are for void elves and not for blood elves if I am not mistaken.

[Manariel]

How and why is this thread still alive ? High Elves are Blood Elves .

Infract me , i don't really care , i speak the truth .

That's only a portion of the truth.

Blood Elves are racially High Elves, but ethnically Sin'dorei. High Elves are racially High Elves and ethnically Quel'dorei.

And in fact, Blood Elves rejected the Quel'Dorei's identity, in several ways.

Their race is the Thalassian Elves, you can say, which has branched into Quel'dorei (High Elves) and Sin'dorei (Blood Elves), the later of whom also morphed into Ren'dorei (Void Elves) for a very small portion (and no hint that they can produce more, or even reproduce normally).

[Ielenia]

This just seems like you don't believe anyone who disagrees with the idea of alliance getting playable high elves should be allowed to post here. Are you suggesting that the moderator believes that and stated so?

The problem is that the point of this thread (other than consolidating all high elf talk) is to discuss ideas and possibilities. What those against the idea of playable high elves do, though, is return every now and then to repeat the same arguments that have been addressed and challenged before, as if what they're saying is a "fresh new take" or something.

Every time someone brings something new to the thread, certain anti-high-elf posters show up and repeat the same arguments as before, and so, instead of discussing the merits of whatever new information was brought, instead the "conversation" devolves back into re-addressing and re-challenging those same old arguments.

[FlubberPuddy]

Lol, how soon I was right from my post just last page

[Varx]

Great. We’re at that point in the cycle where they’re willfully ignorant about Warcraft simply because they think it’ll win them the conversation. Or maybe Obelisk isn’t pretending. Either way: sad.

High Elves aren’t already there as a playable race. If they were then people would not keep asking for over 15 years, now.

Except that they are there. People are only asking for them since they dont like the horde and dont wanna play as the horde.

Since the silver covenant is a thing then it gives it them the slightest hope no matter what logic is thrown at them.

The only way this will happen is neutrality just like the pandas

[Starla]

I mean even as an anti helfer it's getting old and futile already

I question what you're saying then. I would hope everyone's opinion are allowed on this topic as well as others. Should people voicing dissent feel free start their own topic? Then the title of this topic should be changed to something like 'Support for alliance helves ONLY'.

It's a discussion board...where it's possible for everyone to voice their opinions, at least I'd hope so.
And this topic concerns more than the people who want it. The devs need to know everyone's views on it and like it or not this happens to be one of the public WoW platforms that allow us to get our views heard.

[Aucald]

Discussion of moderation is not a permitted topic - if you have a question about a point of moderation, discuss it with the moderator via PM or with a global moderator.

[FossilFree]

The fact that mechagnomes are getting more customizations means that void elves will likely get more too!

Also datamine confirmed that those new eyes customization options are for void elves and not for blood elves if I am not mistaken.

I think they will have to give mechagnomes even more options than the goggles. This is because they made such a big deal about mechagnomes not being able to get a unique class separate from gnomes (like technoshamans) because "they were created from gnomes and had the same classes." Well the same logic goes both ways, so if gnomes get new dark skin tones, mechagnomes by extension (and Blizzard's own internal logic) would also have the capacity for dark skin and must get those new skin tones too.

[MyWholeLifeIsThunder]

They'll always try to minimize it too in some way. Not realizing that if High Elves can be considered as barely doing anything for the Alliance (despite aiding them on several occasions throughout several expansions* and having members as part of the 7th Legion) then half the requested races not playable have done shit all for the Horde or Alliance. What great contributions have Ogres made? Or Hozen?

Also the Allied Races added didn't do shit for Alliance or Horde until after they joined up, meaning there's no hardline pre-requisite that a race must have done something of great value to have been decided to be added to the greater factions.

*No other non-playable race in the history of WoW has done this aside from High Elves. There is no consistent group of unplayable NPCs on the Horde that support their endeavors unlike the High Elves for the Alliance.

High Elf is the only Allied Race Request that gets put through the most strict litmus test about their loyalty, even when quite literally they have done more for the alliance than any other actual Allied Race did before joining as such to their faction.

I have said it once and I will say it again; HE playability is not an issue of lore, but gameplay design. There's not a single lore argument that other AR hasn't breached at this point, the only difference is that HE are not aesthetically different enough without crossing faction lines. That's what makes them unplayable, not lore.

Yet people will continue to try to justify post fact that is a lore issue, when is just not, as if it will further legitimize an anti he posture, as if that was needed when it really all comes to a design choice -I mean just look at Void Elves when it comes to being devoid of built up lore-

To Blizz, what matters is an unique look, and it gets tiring people trying to pretend there's an in universe explanation that holds any water.

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Except that they are there. People are only asking for them since they dont like the horde and dont wanna play as the horde.

Since the silver covenant is a thing then it gives it them the slightest hope no matter what logic is thrown at them.

The only way this will happen is neutrality just like the pandas

But thiese are the sort of obfuscating statements that muddle the conversation. When people say "playable High Elves" they obviously mean Alliance ones, the only ones currently using that name since the Horde Thalassians call themselves something different.

It should be clear by now, yet people such as you continue to drag down the conversation because a disagreement of nomenclature rather than the matter of political identity and ideology that is.

That's why "High Elves are Blood Elves" arguments come across as entirely disingenuous, because people try to keep making the issue about biology when it clearly is about Ideology and Politics -and how such has lead to minor physical differences-

[DeicideUH]

The reason the opposition needs to try to spin lore and requisites for joining is because they can't admit that all that forbids high elves being playable is arbitrary design from the devs. And, since it's arbitrary, a change in mindset could make it happen. That's why they fight these threads so fiercely: they are afraid that an unopposed request could influence the devs.

They wouldn't bother if it was an impossible request.

[FlubberPuddy]

High Elf is the only Allied Race Request that gets put through the most strict litmus test about their loyalty, even when quite literally they have done more for the alliance than any other actual Allied Race did before joining as such to their faction.

I have said it once and I will say it again; HE playability is not an issue of lore, but gameplay design. There's not a single lore argument that other AR hasn't breached at this point, the only difference is that HE are not aesthetically different enough without crossing faction lines. That's what makes them unplayable, not lore.

Yet people will continue to try to justify post fact that is a lore issue, when is just not, as if it will further legitimize an anti he posture, as if that was needed when it really all comes to a design choice -I mean just look at Void Elves when it comes to being devoid of built up lore-

To Blizz, what matters is an unique look, and it gets tiring people trying to pretend there's an in universe explanation that holds any water.

That much is pretty clear from Blizzard's end. The same reasons for the customizations coming. While they might be 'lore approved' Danuser really focused on outright stating they're not gonna stop adding extra customization for players just because they won't be able to explicitly spell it out in-game, as that would require so many resources they would not be able to add those extra options in the first place.

That puts the conversation in a good place because it, while sure I would have enjoyed having a separate High Elf option with unique racials/heritage/mount attached to them. I can make do with at least looking the part on Alliance side if given through Void Elf customizations.

We just have to wait a bit longer to see how Blizzard wants to handle it. But going off of almost every data-mined option being shown so far appears to have basis in player requests, then it looks tentatively good for High Elf fans.

Seeing as Afrasiabi said it is indeed possible to get customization through Void Elves for that 'High Elf fantasy' and that appears to be the most asked for request regarding Void Elves. People have been even suggesting it as the 'High Elf Compromise' on official forums.

[Varx]

High Elf is the only Allied Race Request that gets put through the most strict litmus test about their loyalty, even when quite literally they have done more for the alliance than any other actual Allied Race did before joining as such to their faction.

I have said it once and I will say it again; HE playability is not an issue of lore, but gameplay design. There's not a single lore argument that other AR hasn't breached at this point, the only difference is that HE are not aesthetically different enough without crossing faction lines. That's what makes them unplayable, not lore.

Yet people will continue to try to justify post fact that is a lore issue, when is just not, as if it will further legitimize an anti he posture, as if that was needed when it really all comes to a design choice -I mean just look at Void Elves when it comes to being devoid of built up lore-

To Blizz, what matters is an unique look, and it gets tiring people trying to pretend there's an in universe explanation that holds any water.

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But thiese are the sort of obfuscating statements that muddle the conversation. When people say "playable High Elves" they obviously mean Alliance ones, the only ones currently using that name since the Horde Thalassians call themselves something different.

It should be clear by now, yet people such as you continue to drag down the conversation because a disagreement of nomenclature rather than the matter of political identity and ideology that is.

That's why "High Elves are Blood Elves" arguments come across as entirely disingenuous, because people try to keep making the issue about biology when it clearly is about Ideology and Politics -and how such has lead to minor physical differences-

But you're only proving my point. Like you said, Helfers are panning for the alliance aligned elves since they don't like the horde, they want to be part of the silver covenant, and blah blah blah.

Unfortunately, that doesn't change the fact that the RACE is available and the fact that it isn't the VERY SPECIFIC SUB FACTION OF THAT RACE is the personal problem of helfers.

What if i wanted to specifically play a normal kul tiran human? Well too bad because playable KT humans are fat only and if i wanna play a normal human then I need to suck it up and be a SW human.

Otherwise, you are asking for the same treatment as pandas and unless blizz's changes their stance on neutral races then High Elevs will never happen.

[FlubberPuddy]

The reason the opposition needs to try to spin lore and requisites for joining is because they can't admit that all that forbids high elves being playable is arbitrary design from the devs. And, since it's arbitrary, a change in mindset could make it happen. That's why they fight these threads so fiercely: they are afraid that an unopposed request could influence the devs.

They wouldn't bother if it was an impossible request.

Agree with this too. If it was literally impossible many people wouldn't concern themselves, especially those not wanting it. Continuing to return to regurgitate ad nauseum as if to say "hey Blizzard I'm still here, don't forget!" for attention.

It's also going to lose its luster when/if blue eyes come to Blood Elves and the requests continue for High Elves. Showing even more how iconic and loved that identity is to Alliance for those players continuing to request it.

We're about 3 years in since Void Elves were revealed and the High Elf request exploded. It has not lost its engagement within the community. Blizzard even referencing it this year, as well as that previous year where they joked about 'World of Elfcraft'.

Kinda situates the request as on their radar. Whether they decide to do anything about it remains to be seen, but acknowledging it as still there is good in my opinion.

Especially since as Thunder said, if the wall at Blizzard is making them look different enough, that can be easily rectified. That's the smallest hurdle. Especially with fans already having created so many of their own variations and ideas about it, like in this thread alone.

[Aldo Hawk]

People are only asking for them since they dont like the horde and dont wanna play as the horde.

The bolded part just summarizes why your comment is misleading and doesn't properly portray the discussion in a constructive way.

It has been explained a thousand times that High elves are asked for the Alliance because they are part of the Alliance, what some individual may say here and there doesn't change that simple-to-understand basis.

[FlubberPuddy]

Unfortunately, that doesn't change the fact that the RACE is available and the fact that it isn't the VERY SPECIFIC SUB FACTION OF THAT RACE is the personal problem of helfers.

We're moving into an era of the game where subfactions do matter by the fact those increased customizations are coming so that people can play, in your own words, "VERY SPECIFIC SUB FACTION OF THAT RACE".

Or do you think when Danuser talks about being able to play Wildhammer he's talking about an entirely new and different group of Wildhammer that the Alliance has never knew about?

[Varx]

Agree with this too. If it was literally impossible many people wouldn't concern themselves, especially those not wanting it. Continuing to return to regurgitate ad nauseum as if to say "hey Blizzard I'm still here, don't forget!" for attention.

It's also going to lose its luster when/if blue eyes come to Blood Elves and the requests continue for High Elves. Showing even more how iconic and loved that identity is to Alliance for those players continuing to request it.

We're about 3 years in since Void Elves were revealed and the High Elf request exploded. It has not lost its engagement within the community. Blizzard even referencing it this year, as well as that previous year where they joked about 'World of Elfcraft'.

Kinda situates the request as on their radar. Whether they decide to do anything about it remains to be seen, but acknowledging it as still there is good in my opinion.

Especially since as Thunder said, if the wall at Blizzard is making them look different enough, that can be easily rectified. That's the smallest hurdle. Especially with fans already having created so many of their own variations and ideas about it, like in this thread alone.

This is just silly from a practical game-play stand point. There are "sub-factions" and groups for every playable race in the game. If high elves became a things without going the neutral route and giving the horde a new race to compensate then you're opening up the flood gates for every special snow flake to demand their very very very^100 specific race.

Oh helfers got their specific pure thalasian elf despite being biologically identical to an existing race then i want to be a.....


Grimtotem tauren,
Horde kul tiran pirate,
defias human,
alterac human,
SI 7: goblin,
stromgarde human,
MU maghar orc,
dragon maw orc,
steamwheedle goblin,


so on and so forth.

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We're moving into an era of the game where subfactions do matter by the fact those increased customizations are coming so that people can play, in your own words, "VERY SPECIFIC SUB FACTION OF THAT RACE".

Or do you think when Danuser talks about being able to play Wildhammer he's talking about an entirely new and different group of Wildhammer that the Alliance has never knew about?

Exactly!! Which means that the possibility of helfers getting a whole new race for high elves is not going to happen. As for velevs getting helf options. That's not going to happen either.

I saw someone post a pic of a belf in velf heritage armor. Like seriously? You can't play a velf and expect to look like a h/belf. Then you wouldnt be a damn velf. come on guys...

[FlubberPuddy]

This is just silly from a practical game-play stand point. There are "sub-factions" and groups for every playable race in the game. If high elves became a things without going the neutral route and giving the horde a new race to compensate then you're opening up the flood gates for every special snow flake to demand their very very very^100 specific race.

Oh helfers got their specific pure thalasian elf despite being biologically identical to an existing race then i want to be a.....


Grimtotem tauren,
Horde kul tiran pirate,
defias human,
alterac human,
SI 7: goblin,
stromgarde human,
MU maghar orc,
dragon maw orc,
steamwheedle goblin,


so on and so forth.

We already have people "demand their very very very^100 specific race." The request for High Elves never changed that. Some of the examples of you've listed have been 'demanded' by players

https://www.reddit.com/r/wow/comment...high_elves_so/

That got 1642 upvotes

With top comment having 708 upvotes and agreeing that's a fine trade. next one has 247 upvotes saying feel free to campaign for it and OP has their support.

Can the anti-helfers show me they are ~700 people strong or more than that?

[bloodykiller86]

See now you are completely missing the point. Pay attention and don't jump to conclusions, comprehend what other people are saying:

The point is that giving VE's a HE origin NEEDS a lore explanation because it's not just an aesthetic, but a whole "race change" to pass from one to the other. The point I was bringing up is that you saying "we don't need an explanation for that" and comparing it to Wildhammer and Forest troll only would fit if Void Elves were given a HE look. Which We All Know You Disagree With.




Again, it's not even on the same ball park to say "this sand troll joined the Horde" and "this high elf went through a hitherto unknown voidification process to become a void elf. And even so, I fully believe we ALSO need some lore explanation why we are able to play as Farraki, since they do not a horde background, it's still bad, but not as bad as to just pretend we are able to replicate an admiteddly accidental process at will.

All I know now is that we need lore explanations for HE VE's and Farraki trolls joining the Horde. And I'm fully on board with this being done through flavor or quest text -which can also apply to Forest Trolls and Wildhammer- I see degrees of necessity for all, what I don't get why are just against the idea of lore clarification on this.



I'll give you this is a matter of opinion to a degree -which process would be harder to replicate or the more likely results- and ultimately irrelevant because I'm not trying to justify VE's giving HE's skin tones. My point here is that the process that made VE's was an accident, so if there's any intention and further success to replicate it, that has to be addressed by the lore . What I don't get is you being against this needing explaining, I don't see the rationale behind clarifying and expanding a lore point that's notoriously contentious.

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Why are people pointing out more mistakes of the in game lore not addressing things it should as a good thing? Sure the Saurfang issue wasn't as bad because he was like literally the highest ranking Orc left, but it wasn't good either. Why are people against explaining the lore now? Why???



Sure, because the only characters that will appear on the book will be the ones mentioned in the pre release. It will be completely a self contained stage show.

Like sure Vereesa might not appear, the point is we don't know, but the logic you are using to give your opinion -better said, your wish- is by being illogical. At what point you do not realize you are foregoing rationale just to be contrarian?

Like for fucks sake, it's not an wild conclusion that Alleria's sister and son will show up at some point since she will be one of the main characters. It might be wrong of course, but it's probable given their relationship. Saying she "probably won't be" because we haven't already see her mentioned is just being contrarian out of spite lol. Like what is even the motivation behind it?

High Elve's are Blood Elves which means Void Elves are Blood Elves. skin color doesnt matter

[FlubberPuddy]

High Elve's are Blood Elves which means Void Elves are Blood Elves. skin color doesnt matter

First time I'm hearing that Vereesa and her sons and the Silver Covenant and Highvale and 7th legion shieldmages are all Blood Elves. Do you have proof providing evidence for this?

Or is it baseless statements all over again?

[Ielenia]

But you're only proving my point. Like you said, Helfers are panning for the alliance aligned elves since they don't like the horde, they want to be part of the silver covenant, and blah blah blah.

We don't want Alliance blood elves. Screw the blood elves. We want the Alliance high elves that have been part of the Alliance already for several years, and have time and again lent their forces and help to the Alliance, often against the Horde.

What if i wanted to specifically play a normal kul tiran human? Well too bad because playable KT humans are fat only

What if I wanted to specifically play an orc with normal, upright posture? Well too bad because playable orcs are hunchback only.

You see how this argument of yours doesn't work?