Official High Elf Discussion Megathread

[Obelisk Kai]

You do know that you just need Ion or another wow decision maker to give the order to make this (any-) thing happen, just like they created void elves out of thin air

Having Alliance High Elves with the void elf starting screen and racials is a bit cringy, but if blizzard has choosen this path to give more subrace options as extra costumizations, well it is better than nothing. but at least they should give a visual animation update to the void elf racials for high elves.

Of course. If the developers change their mind they can easily make Alliance High Elves possible. But I think anyone who starts arguing that Blizzard can retcon the current situation is implicitly accepting the reality of the current situation regarding the exiles and their status.

Your second point is the slippery slope though and yet more proof that there is no unified pro High elf demand.

Some reject the idea of void elf customisation outright, only a pure High Elf option will do.

Others will accept void elf customisation.

But there are other for whom void elf customisation wouldn't be enough and would want updated racials. And maybe emotes. And the Paladin class wouldn't go amiss either.

There are levels of what is apparently acceptable and each individual differs on what they would accept.

Frankly I think what is likeliest to happen is that they'll give Void Elf players a monkey paw result. Normalish yet obviously void flawed skin tones that still drive home the message you are playing a Void Elf. I think they would be very, very wary of attempting to facilitate the 'de-voiding' of Void Elves as that is the core theme of the race. Think of their actions during the character model updates, they set out to rebuild the models but they also kept them spiritually in tune with what went before. Their philosophy was that someone playing a particular race clearly enjoyed that model, and that they were the people they had to please, not groups who hated the model and wanted Blizzard to transform it into something else they would prefer. The same philosophy should be presumed to be at work here and that whatever customisations void elves get, the won't violate or compromise the fantasy of being a void elf.

Because ultimately, just as there is a werewolf option in the game and nobody questions that despite it being Alliance only, there is a traditional style high elf option in the game and if people want to play that, well, the Horde IS waiting for them. Just as it would be unfair on Blood Elves to duplicate them to the Alliance, it is unfair on Void Elves to devalue their own fantasy and attempt to turn them into ersatz high elves.

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So you're basically admitting your comparison is bullshit.

Since TBC, High elves is the most requested thing when it comes to bring on the table additional races.

And I think up until Cataclysm, Ogres and Nagas were not far from that.

Blizzard can change its mind, that's a reality. Yet we don't know if it will. We'll just have to wait and see.

Not at all, I am critiquing the comparison. The notion that Blizzard reversing course on classic servers presages a similar about turn on Alliance high elves has always been one of the sillier things blurted out by the pro high elf movement. That was a juggernaut of a movement that few other questions in WoW's history have ever replicated. The closest I can think of was the flying debacle of WOD where there was an outcry, and they did change (but not reverse course).

As for Blizzard changing their minds, well, we don't know if they will change their minds but it's not as if we have no evidence of which way they are leaning. Fifteen years of commentary can all be summed up in one message. Blood Elves are playable as the high elf option of WoW. If you want to play a high elf, the Horde is waiting for you. If you can't stomach the Horde, the high elf variant of void elves is a part of the Alliance.

[elbleuet]

Not at all, I am critiquing the comparison. The notion that Blizzard reversing course on classic servers presages a similar about turn on Alliance high elves has always been one of the sillier things blurted out by the pro high elf movement. That was a juggernaut of a movement that few other questions in WoW's history have ever replicated. The closest I can think of was the flying debacle of WOD where there was an outcry, and they did change (but not reverse course).

As for Blizzard changing their minds, well, we don't know if they will change their minds but it's not as if we have no evidence of which way they are leaning. Fifteen years of commentary can all be summed up in one message. Blood Elves are playable as the high elf option of WoW. If you want to play a high elf, the Horde is waiting for you. If you can't stomach the Horde, the high elf variant of void elves is a part of the Alliance.

Yet Ion said maybe there was a possibility to add some high elf costumization options so I don't really know what are you trying to say. Ofc we won't get High elves as a race.

But that's the same deal with the Highborne. But apparently, we could play some blond blue-eyed, light skinned night elves soon so ...

[Obelisk Kai]

Yet Ion said maybe there was a possibility to add some high elf costumization options so I don't really know what are you trying to say. Ofc we won't get High elves as a race.

But that's the same deal with the Highborne. But apparently, we could play some blond blue-eyed, light skinned night elves soon so ...

Ion never said that. You are confusing what he said with what Afrasiabi said. And what Afrasiabi said was 'it's possible' before spinning off into a comparatively lengthy tangent about forum behaviour.

What Ion said was 'Anything was possible'. He said the same thing to Preach too when Preach asked about the return of master looting, and Preach took it the correct way i.e.'it's not likely at all Preach so don't hope for it' and not the wishful-thinking pro high elfer way of 'we are completely open to and very likely to change our minds if you keep complaining long enough. Please complain more'.

In regards to void elf customisations themselves, we don't know but I still reckon it is more likely than not that whatever the Void Elves get won't be anywhere near enough for the majority of those hoping for high elves on the alliance who look like Blood Elves.

[elbleuet]

Ion never said that. You are confusing what he said with what Afrasiabi said. And what Afrasiabi said was 'it's possible' before spinning off into a comparatively lengthy tangent about forum behaviour.

What Ion said was 'Anything was possible'. He said the same thing to Preach too when Preach asked about the return of master looting, and Preach took it the correct way i.e.'it's not likely at all Preach so don't hope for it' and not the wishful-thinking pro high elfer way of 'we are completely open to and very likely to change our minds if you keep complaining long enough. Please complain more'.

In regards to void elf customisations themselves, we don't know but I still reckon it is more likely than not that whatever the Void Elves get won't be anywhere near enough for the majority of those hoping for high elves on the alliance who look like Blood Elves.

Oh sorry for my mistake you're right.

For me it will be largely enough with 2 or 3 light skinned options. Blond hairs are not necessary. I think a blue/purple haired, light skinned void elf with blue eyes would look great.

Maybe this would be some sort of compromise. Not a blond hairs option for the void elves. Only dark colors for the hairs available (purple, pink, black, blue, even greyish, white).

[Obelisk Kai]

Oh sorry for my mistake you're right.

For me it will be largely enough with 2 or 3 light skinned options. Blond hairs are not necessary. I think a blue/purple haired, light skinned void elf with blue eyes would look great.

Maybe this would be some sort of compromise. Not a blond hairs option for the void elves. Only dark colors for the hairs available (purple, pink, black, blue, even greyish, white).

But as has been demonstrated, what is enough for you won't be enough for others. Some would be satisfied with what you want. Some would be satisfied with less than what you want. Some want more, including the ability to be indistinguishable from a high elf so as to roleplay as one. Some want more yet, including updated racials, updated emotes and even access to the Paladin class.

Others reject the idea of Void Elf customisation completely and would demand nothing less than a high elf. When we say the high elfers can't agree on what they want, we mean this, the inability settle for what could be presented as a compromise option. I believe the Void Elf as it stands IS the compromise option of course given that it's a thalassian elf model that is unambiguously a thalassian elf. The question therefore becomes to what degree will Blizzard want to 'water down' the void elf theme by allowing them access to a human skin tone range?

I believe the answer to that will not be enough for most of those asking. Personally I would prefer them to go the other way, to lean into the void elf fantasy as much as possible and go in a lovecraftian direction with tattoos consisting of living eyeball patterns, optional tentacles sprouting from odd angles, eyes with weird glows, freaky cultist tattoos, facial hairs that have tentacles built in. Because we have no other race that does the void theme, whereas we have several that do the light theme.

[FlubberPuddy]

But as has been demonstrated, what is enough for you won't be enough for others. Some would be satisfied with what you want. Some would be satisfied with less than what you want. Some want more, including the ability to be indistinguishable from a high elf so as to roleplay as one. Some want more yet, including updated racials, updated emotes and even access to the Paladin class.

Everytime you make these sorts of statements it's as if to say, "they aren't going to please every high elf fan so they may as well not make effort towards appeasing the high elf fans they can."

And Blizzard has shown time and again they're willing to go ahead and give people more of what they want despite it not being able to satisfy every single player in existence. They look at the critique and when the time comes to be able to rectify it, they'll be able to do what they can with the requests in mind.

The response Danuser gave on Wildhammer is an example of this. He literally said they're not gonna not do Wildhammer just because they don't have the resources/time to explain in-game and give your Wildhammer Dwarf a proper starting experience stating you are one.

That's exactly the kind of thing others are talking about here. If they can do a bit more to legitimize the High Elves on Alliance that'll be great. Just like the players who wish for Dark Ranger skins and Red Eyes to come to Blood Elves, there will be a portion of players who are disappointed their ideas for extra customization options didn't get in. But that's not stopping Blizzard from adding a slew of options to Blood Elves and other races.

They're not just going, "you know guys, there's people that want to play a Dark Ranger Blood Elf with Red Eyes but honestly that skin option and eye color doesn't make sense so since we can't please all the Blood Elf fans let's just not do these increased customizations at all!"

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Personally I would prefer them to go the other way, to lean into the void elf fantasy as much as possible and go in a lovecraftian direction with tattoos consisting of living eyeball patterns, optional tentacles sprouting from odd angles, eyes with weird glows, freaky cultist tattoos, facial hairs that have tentacles built in. Because we have no other race that does the void theme, whereas we have several that do the light theme.

Seeing as most of the increased customizations are based in long-time player requests for fans of the race, I'm doubtful they'll go that route. As essentially every void elf fan keeps reverberating about wanting to 'look like Alleria'.

Also just because Void is their specific theme doesn't mean that's the only thing they need to focus on. Light is the theme of Blood Elves but how many are agitating for Farstrider tats? Blood Elves are being shown to be getting body jewelry <-- nothing to do with the Light. Gnomes are also getting lots of gem-based jewelry, that's not strictly engineering related.

The purpose is to give variety that's pretty much what Ion said.

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But that's the same deal with the Highborne. But apparently, we could play some blond blue-eyed, light skinned night elves soon so ...

Yeah this too. Night Elves aren't only getting skin colors/eye colors/hair colors that stick to 'purple/green/pink shades'

They're getting options of blue eyes, blonde hair, and proper dark elf skin colors as well as very light-pink almost human tone skin colors.

It's breaking the doors open on the range of looks any particular race can have.

[Ardenaso]

That's the entire problem with being against this. There will never be a point in time where such a simple request isn't possible unless the game officially dies.

I was brought here because I made a High Elf post and I was just told to post them here. I kinda like it here though so whenever I have High Elf questions I just ask here

[Obelisk Kai]

Everytime you make these sorts of statements it's as if to say, "they aren't going to please every high elf fan so they may as well not make effort towards appeasing the high elf fans they can."

And Blizzard has shown time and again they're willing to go ahead and give people more of what they want despite it not being able to satisfy every single player in existence. They look at the critique and when the time comes to be able to rectify it, they'll be able to do what they can with the requests in mind.

They gave you the model, it was a recognisable elf. They made an effort. Your community spurns that effort. They can safely say they tried. They also knew enough to know the compromise wouldn't be popular with the most hardcore. I think they can live with that . After all, a Warcraft decision that didn't please everyone and left some people upset? It must be Wednesday...

The response Danuser gave on Wildhammer is an example of this. He literally said they're not gonna not do Wildhammer just because they don't have the resources/time to explain in-game and give your Wildhammer Dwarf a proper starting experience stating you are one.

Yes but allowing an Alliance Dwarf to roleplay as a member of another tribe who are physically indistinguishable from most other Alliance Dwarves and who are also a part of the Alliance is a lot different than giving lore inconsistent options to one race so they can mimic the appearance of a race from the other faction and attempt to pretend to be something they aren't. Again with the forced equivalencies and assumptions.

That's exactly the kind of thing others are talking about here. If they can do a bit more to legitimize the High Elves on Alliance that'll be great. Just like the players who wish for Dark Ranger skins and Red Eyes to come to Blood Elves, there will be a portion of players who are disappointed their ideas for extra customization options didn't get in. But that's not stopping Blizzard from adding a slew of options to Blood Elves and other races.

They're not just going, "you know guys, there's people that want to play a Dark Ranger Blood Elf with Red Eyes but honestly that skin option and eye color doesn't make sense so since we can't please all the Blood Elf fans let's just not do these increased customizations at all!"

No sign of dark ranger type skins on Blood Elves yet though. I think it shouldn't happen because it is inconsistent with a Blood Elf origin of course.
But it's an interesting point. If Blood Elves don't get a Dark Ranger skin by the end of this, despite being 'requested', it will be a sign that certain options are off limits because they do actually go against lore. Maybe the canary in the coalmine so to speak.
After all, if they don't give Dark Ranger skins as part of Blood Elf customisation then the only real reason they wouldn't do it is the lore. And your own request not only cuts across existing lore but goes against the logic of of creating Void Elves in the first place. We may not have to wait for the allied race customisation pass then to determine the likelihood of your request. If the core races options are limited to those that make sense for that core race, then your own prospects for success become considerably bleaker.

Seeing as most of the increased customizations are based in long-time player requests for fans of the race, I'm doubtful they'll go that route. As essentially every void elf fan keeps reverberating about wanting to 'look like Alleria'.

Also just because Void is their specific theme doesn't mean that's the only thing they need to focus on. Light is the theme of Blood Elves but how many are agitating for Farstrider tats? Blood Elves are being shown to be getting body jewelry <-- nothing to do with the Light. Gnomes are also getting lots of gem-based jewelry, that's not strictly engineering related.

The purpose is to give variety that's pretty much what Ion said.

Yet Moorgard was also asked to comment on the proposed changes to see if any violated lore, and none did. That he was asked strongly implies they want the new customisation options to be fully consistent with the race and that this IS a consideration.

If the high elf allied race issue has taught us anything it is that 'long term player requests' only count if they don't cross certain red lines. High Elves as an allied race crossed a red line, so Void Elves were created in their stead.

Your mistake is always to assume that there are no other considerations. Void Elves were differentiated from Blood/High Elves for a reason. The customisations you seek on a Void Elf crash against the same rationale that created Void Elves in the first place. They also destroy the thematic and aesthetic differentiation between Void Elves and Blood Elves.

And the theme of the Blood Elves is to be traditional high elves. Farstrider tattoos would be a part of that package as that is part of the heritage of the race, just as being light aligned is a part of the package. In contrast the Void Elves are defined by the void. Skin tone? Void influenced. Tentacles? Void caused. Origin story? Nuked by the void. Even the name is Void Elves. This is why I keep going back to the distinction between Core and Allied races. Core races have a lot more leeway in their origins than allied races. Allied races have tightly defined origins that are impossible to wriggle around.

Yeah this too. Night Elves aren't only getting skin colors/eye colors/hair colors that stick to 'purple/green/pink shades'

They're getting options of blue eyes, blonde hair, and proper dark elf skin colors as well as very light-pink almost human tone skin colors.

It's breaking the doors open on the range of looks any particular race can have.

https://www.wowhead.com/news=311980/...luding-tattoos

Eye colour is only a relevant topic on Blood/high elves, due to the lore that their eye colour reflects ambient magic. Other race eye colour isn't a point of comparison.

Wowhead lists three new datamined skin tones. One is a very light purple/pink. One is grey-purple. One is a grey-blue. All seem to fall within the Night Elf tone range which, I hasten to add, is a non human tone range. Non human tone ranges aren't limited by what humans express through skin colours and are more flexible. As it stands though, nothing out of the ordinary.

Hair colours datamined include black, an autumnal orange (very evocative of trees in autumn and extremely night elven as a consequence) and bright purple (which doesn't look out of place compared to some of their other, garish hair colours).

None of these seem to exist outside the Night Elf aesthetic. All of them go with the grain of what Night Elves are. Were other options datamined that wowhead forgot to include? Or are wowhead only listing the options they feel confident about?

[yana]

Aren't you all tired of waiting for a generic and bland as flour race that wont ever happen not matter how much you wait for like 15 years?you understand blizzard wants its cake and eat it too and putting these high elves here and there is the easiest way to create buzz about their game but they are pratically playing you guys.
You know this, right?
The "race" is so shallow and bland you can just play every other classical mmorpg in the world and click on the high elf option , its time to move on, its never gonna happen.

[FlubberPuddy]

Snip

This entire post is an example of how one can take the same information and interpret it differently. At which point there isn't much discussion to be had without a common grounding in place.

We'll just have to wait till it's time for Void Elf increased customizations to see what they want end up getting in the end.

Orange btw is not part of the Night Elf aesthetic, a frank break-away. Neither are the very grey-dark skin tones that've been datamined.

I'll leave it at that because a back and forth is a waste of time.

[matrix123mko]

Tattoos are a farstrider thing. That is a fact. I fully expect tattoo options for blood elves (again not 100% guaranteed but I think a very high possibility)

Blizzard commented a thread on official forum about giving farstrider tattoos to blood elves. They said that these ideas are nice. Maybe we will see them in next customisation update in Shadowlands alpha.

Pro high elfers have used the excuse "they said no to classic then changed their mind, they'll do the same for high elves". So pro high elfers have attempted to compare the two. Though as you correctly point out, they're not even comparable. One was a concept with a massive backing of 200,000+ signatures on its official classic petition, while the other is a concept which has a measly 700 signatures on its official petition. One comprised a massive supporting by the community at large, while, as you point out, the other comprises a few people from one of the factions asking for a race already playable.

The cost is different. One required a lot of bugfixing and creating new servers, while the second only requires Blizzard to put blood elves in Alliance and change their eye texture, maybe also switching their racial.

[FlubberPuddy]

Aren't you all tired of waiting for a generic and bland as flour race that wont ever happen not matter how much you wait for like 15 years?you understand blizzard wants its cake and eat it too and putting these high elves here and there is the easiest way to create buzz about their game but they are pratically playing you guys.
You know this, right?
The "race" is so shallow and bland you can just play every other classical mmorpg in the world and click on the high elf option , its time to move on, its never gonna happen.

And yet the apparently 'most generic and bland' races of Humans/Night Elves/Blood Elves are the most played.

Majority of people don't give a shit about 'being uber unique look at me I'm playing a blue troll/funky gnome/dark iron dwarf'.

Otherwise very unique/different races would be the most played and the 'generic' ones least played.

[matrix123mko]

But they won't because that's a high elf thing.

Alleria who has some, is firmly Alliance.

Today I learned that Alleria is the only person on Azeroth who know secret of tattooing elven skin. Every elf, including Tyrande went to to Alleria's tattoo studio to make them.

Also, this is not the topic but blood elf could also use some arcane tattoos that nightborne use.

[Obelisk Kai]

This entire post is an example of how one can take the same information and interpret it differently. At which point there isn't much discussion to be had without a common grounding in place.

Except interpreted without the conclusion in mind, the conclusion being 'they will give me what I want and this is how'.

Starting with a conclusion warps interpretation of available evidence. It's why you've been constantly disappointed.

Orange btw is not part of the Night Elf aesthetic, a frank break-away. Neither are the very grey-dark skin tones that've been datamined.

https://images.app.goo.gl/WH2fBpGpfkZ7veq97

I think if you can't see how orange fits into the Night Elf (the wood elves of wow) aesthetic then you aren't looking hard enough.

As for the grey-dark skin tones...it's grey-blue. Night Elves do have some blue shades, this is just another spin on one of those

[yana]

And yet the apparently 'most generic and bland' races of Humans/Night Elves/Blood Elves are the most played.

Majority of people don't give a shit about 'being uber unique look at me I'm playing a blue troll/funky gnome/dark iron dwarf'.

Otherwise very unique/different races would be the most played and the 'generic' ones least played.

then play those that already exist, what's the need of yet another bland humanoid race with 0 traits worth mentioning besides nebulous political decisions and "muh purity" play a human.
pretend they have pointy ears and you are good to go

[Frenchvince]

Tattoos are a farstrider thing. That is a fact. I fully expect tattoo options for blood elves (again not 100% guaranteed but I think a very high possibility)

I don't want to give you false hope but all datamined races (except tauren) have had their body customization options (body / face tattoos included).
All that is missing is the customization options for the "head", hairstyles, faces, jewelry ect ... humans were the first to have the addition in the new build.

So I don't think the blood elves will have the high-elf farstrider customization option, they received body jewelry instead.

[FlubberPuddy]

https://images.app.goo.gl/WH2fBpGpfkZ7veq97

I think if you can't see how orange fits into the Night Elf (the wood elves of wow) aesthetic then you aren't looking hard enough.

As for the grey-dark skin tones...it's grey-blue. Night Elves do have some blue shades, this is just another spin on one of those

Your spin.

And it's not about 'orange is part of woods' it's about debunking your argument that the increased customizations will stay within the specific aesthetics already existing in the race.

Night Elves don't already have access to an Orange hair option, nor anything close to Orange in any of their hair options.

Same for the grey skin option. Most people when they see this:



Are not going to go ' OH YEAH THAT'S BLUE'. The base that jumps out is GREY. People in the stream were even commenting, 'omg Dark Ranger skin' when they saw the NE Female pic ^.

You'd have more of a point using the NE male



Where there's a very hefty amount of Purple applied.

Also the two images right there, they use the same exact texture file. Notice how different it looks between Female and Male.

Male would be Blizzard following your line of logic, having the races keep within their already established aesthetic options. More purple isn't new to Night Elves.

Female would be Blizzard following my, and what Ion said they're trying to do, logic. That is opening up a diversity of options. Grey is not a color already available to Night Elves.

Neither is Orange hair color. Nor datamined Blue Eyes for NE from keyboardturner.

[yana]

I don't want to give you false hope but all datamined races (except tauren) have had their body customization options (body / face tattoos included).
All that is missing is the customization options for the "head", hairstyles, faces, jewelry ect ... humans were the first to have the addition in the new build.

So I don't think the blood elves will have the high-elf farstrider customization option, they received body jewelry instead.

I mean the alpha is not complete by any means and how does jewelry coorelate to tatoos?
and its ironic you say not to give false hopes since this thread is the Height of false hopes

[FlubberPuddy]

then play those that already exist, what's the need of yet another bland humanoid race with 0 traits worth mentioning besides nebulous political decisions and "muh purity" play a human.
pretend they have pointy ears and you are good to go

Vulpera are yet another 'cute race' that's literally what John Hight talked about when he mentioned that one faction shouldn't have all the pretty/cute races while the other side is full of monsters.

Blizzard are already going against 'every single option in the game must be unique and different and not step on the toes of what already exists.'

Other evidence of this is every race getting blue eyes for instance.

[yana]

Vulpera are yet another 'cute race' that's literally what John Hight talked about when he mentioned that one faction shouldn't have all the pretty/cute races while the other side is full of monsters.

Blizzard are already going against 'every single option in the game must be unique and different and not step on the toes of what already exists.'

Other evidence of this is every race getting blue eyes for instance.

It seems to me you need to elevate your expectations or accept you will never get your desired high elves, its okay to admite so