1. #15921
    Damn, this thing has nearly reached 800 pages. So what is the latest batch of madness in this thread? Besides personal attacks, how do people feel about the new customizations and all that is coming with Shadowlands?
    Retail sucks. Classic sucks. No positivity, only negative feedback. Why is everybody so damn miserable? Must be somebody else's fault, it couldn't possibly be my INSANELY TOXIC ATTITUDE.

  2. #15922
    Quote Originally Posted by Phaelia View Post
    And I, on the flipside, want High Elves buried and forgotten once and for all because of people like you, and especially people like Manariel.
    It's shocking that comments like Daevleian's haven't been deleted. Sometimes this place is hard to understand.
    Wondering if Calia, your avatar is actually going to go to the Forsaken next exp, what do you think?

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by vilememory View Post
    Damn, this thing has nearly reached 800 pages. So what is the latest batch of madness in this thread? Besides personal attacks, how do people feel about the new customizations and all that is coming with Shadowlands?
    I'm LOVING the possibility of blue eyes for Blood Elves, something I've wanted since Blood Elves were introduced!
    Blood Elves are High Elves!

  3. #15923
    I am Murloc! Geisl's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Starla View Post
    Void Elves were the answer.
    Many in the community do not see it this way, and that's counting the people who don't even care either way. AkA people, unlike here, who aren't invested in the topic much at all.

    Even some major community influencers like Wowhead, RedShirtGuy, and Taliesin&Evitel. Hell even some community influencers who are pro-Horde (SoulSoBreezy) understand Void Elves were not the answer.

    As I said earlier, if someone truly believes the discussion is over and Void Elves settle the topic then what's the purpose of continually returning to the topic?

    Especially on this particular thread as it's just one among many out there.

  4. #15924
    Quote Originally Posted by Pennem View Post
    Many in the community do not see it this way, and that's counting the people who don't even care either way. AkA people, unlike here, who aren't invested in the topic much at all.

    Even some major community influencers like Wowhead, RedShirtGuy, and Taliesin&Evitel. Hell even some community influencers who are pro-Horde (SoulSoBreezy) understand Void Elves were not the answer.

    As I said earlier, if someone truly believes the discussion is over and Void Elves settle the topic then what's the purpose of continually returning to the topic?

    Especially on this particular thread as it's just one among many out there.
    Coming back to make sure Blizzard knows there are those of us who haven't given up and want to make our voices heard. As long as helfers continue to ask there will be those of us who believe it shouldn't happen and want Blizz to know that.
    Blood Elves are High Elves!

  5. #15925
    I am Murloc! Geisl's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Starla View Post
    Coming back to make sure Blizzard knows there are those of us who haven't given up and want to make our voices heard. As long as helfers continue to ask there will be those of us who believe it shouldn't happen and want Blizz to know that.
    Then that's admittance you do not consider the topic done at all. Good to know.

    I'd just like to point out despite posting 10+ times, you will only be counted once. Just like every one of us. Whether you post once or hundred times doesn't matter.

  6. #15926
    Mechagnome Phaelia's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Starla View Post
    It's shocking that comments like Daevleian's haven't been deleted. Sometimes this place is hard to understand.
    Wondering if Calia, your avatar is actually going to go to the Forsaken next exp, what do you think?

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    I'm LOVING the possibility of blue eyes for Blood Elves, something I've wanted since Blood Elves were introduced!
    I’m not certain about Calia, I’m hoping she just ends up being neutral, though my avatar has been around since before Legion so I’m not sure if it’s a Calia avatar.
    ”I've walked the realms of the dead. I have seen the infinite dark. Nothing you say. Or do. Could possibly frighten me."-Sylvanas Windrunner

  7. #15927
    Quote Originally Posted by Phaelia View Post
    I’m not certain about Calia, I’m hoping she just ends up being neutral, though my avatar has been around since before Legion so I’m not sure if it’s a Calia avatar.
    I was hoping she'd be with the Alliance somehow, only because Forsaken fans I've noticed do not seem to like the idea that she'd take over their faction. Your avatar reminds me of Calia.
    Blood Elves are High Elves!

  8. #15928
    Quote Originally Posted by Strippling View Post
    Again, alliance high elf paladins are a rarity not a rule. But that's all I say on the matter, as it's pointless arguing class fantasies for non-playable fickly aligned alliance high elves.
    Well now that you recognize that High elves are ultimately not playable, might want to drop the unproductive and destructive statement of telling others to play a Horde Blood elf in order to play an Alliance High elf then?

    Well, given that you still hold onto the Chris Metzen phrase that you like to swing around out of context it seems like it will not be the case.

    I explained why it didn't meant what you imply it means very clearly to you in the past, while trying to not reformulate the explanation since it was not needed. Seems like you refused to acknowledge, well, more destructive stance I guess.

    https://www.mmo-champion.com/threads...1#post52208550

    In the video I linked in that post Chris very clearly stated short after that he was about to tell a 'long, long story short', note how he 'called' Blood elves Blood elves when they were just exiled from the Kaldorei society, a time where the concept of the name was far from being even considered for the characters in the story, Blood elves were called Blood elves 7.000 years ago canon confirmed? Remember, Word of God

    You have took advantage of a nuance in an attempt from someone to tell a long story short because it sounds in a way you like, that's an act of dishonesty.

  9. #15929
    Quote Originally Posted by Phaelia View Post
    And I, on the flipside, want High Elves buried and forgotten once and for all because of people like you, and especially people like Manariel.
    Really ? Why ?

    Because I state the obvious when people like Obelisk are apparently too dense to even understand the basic concepts behind the demands for playable High Elves, as he consistently demonstrate ?

    That he still cling to the double "Blood Elves are High Elves" and "Void Elves are Alliance High Elves" even to this day, when he has repeatedly be explained why those two statements are factually false is rather boring and incensing, comes a time.

    I get it, him and people like him cares only about the outward appearance of the Blood Elves, not their lore, not what make them fundamentaly distinct from the High Elves who have been with the Alliance since day one of WoW. I get it.

    It doesn't mean that his and others like him are in the right when they spout lies, or at best misguided verbatim from Hazzikostas, who has demonstrated time and again that he can't relate with the part of the playerbase who play Alliance, and doesn't want to anyway.

    Quote Originally Posted by Starla View Post
    It just seems like the helfers and those against are just speaking past each other, at least this post is a classic example of that.
    The important point that Void Elves were given to the Alliance as Blizzard's response to their high elf request has been made. It's kind of the end of the discussion if a person actually understands that is what happened. Void Elves were the answer.
    No. They were a hastily made compromise, with almost no basis in lore. And no bearing on it, as of now, more than two years after their introduction.

    Because Blizzard heard the demands made by Alliance players about playable High Elves but thought exactly like Obelisk Kai and others of his ilk do. So they gave us a new "race" who roughly resemble High Elves, but aren't, in any way, shape or form. Blizzard even went out of its way to make sure that those Void Elves were former Blood Elves because their sotry (seeking the Void) was absolutely opposed to what the High Elves are in WoW.

    And, to the surprise of no one but Blizzard and those who believed that all what Helfers wanted was the silhouette of the thalassian elves, it failed utterly to stop the demands. So, Blizzard didn't answered it.

    What it did was give us a blueberry and syrup icecream when we were asking for the vanilla and lemon sorbet. Telling us it's exactly the same thing and you can't have the other anyway, even when its flavor is everywhere in Alliance playing experience.
    Last edited by Manariel; 2020-04-18 at 06:06 AM.

  10. #15930
    Mechagnome Phaelia's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Manariel View Post
    Snippppp
    Actually, no, because you are so nasty about it. Also, but not to be diminished, your stance that Blood Elves are vile, nasty, irredeemable monsters and that High Elves are pure and innocent paragons of virtue. That you revel with unbridled glee about the purge of Dalaran. That’s why.
    ”I've walked the realms of the dead. I have seen the infinite dark. Nothing you say. Or do. Could possibly frighten me."-Sylvanas Windrunner

  11. #15931
    Quote Originally Posted by Aldo Hawk View Post
    Well now that you recognize that High elves are ultimately not playable, might want to drop the unproductive and destructive statement of telling others to play a Horde Blood elf in order to play an Alliance High elf then?
    I never denied that there is a group of high elves aligned with the Alliance. I have merely stated the fact that they are the same race as the main group of high elves playable on the Horde, and that it's counter productive and harmful to faction distinction to make a race on the Horde now be playable on the Alliance.

    Quote Originally Posted by Aldo Hawk View Post
    Well, given that you still hold onto the Chris Metzen phrase that you like to swing around out of context it seems like it will not be the case.

    I explained why it didn't meant what you imply it means very clearly to you in the past, while trying to not reformulate the explanation since it was not needed. Seems like you refused to acknowledge, well, more destructive stance I guess.

    https://www.mmo-champion.com/threads...1#post52208550

    In the video I linked in that post Chris very clearly stated short after that he was about to tell a 'long, long story short', note how he 'called' Blood elves Blood elves when they were just exiled from the Kaldorei society, a time where the concept of the name was far from being even considered for the characters in the story, Blood elves were called Blood elves 7.000 years ago canon confirmed? Remember, Word of God

    You have took advantage of a nuance in an attempt from someone to tell a long story short because it sounds in a way you like, that's an act of dishonesty.
    Chris Metzen clearly stated that "blood elves are our high elves". You have proceeded to translate this clear and simple message into some mental gymnastic roundabout meaning and throw in the phrase "context" to somehow make your assumption on his comment seem valid.

    The message is clear, blood elves ARE high elves. The subsequent result is equally as clear, the high elf race IS playable and is available to the Horde.

    Furthermore, this clear and simple message is validated in game on numerous occasions. I can give you in depth examples of such if you'd like, just let me know.
    Blood elves are our high elves - Chris Metzen

  12. #15932
    Quote Originally Posted by Phaelia View Post
    Actually, no, because you are so nasty about it. Also, but not to be diminished, your stance that Blood Elves are vile, nasty, irredeemable monsters and that High Elves are pure and innocent paragons of virtue. That you revel with unbridled glee about the purge of Dalaran. That’s why.
    Is it my fault that blood Elves are nasty, vile and irredeemable monsters, who cries out because some of them were expunged from a city they had no place in after they helped in the enacting of the extermination of the sole human settlement in Kalimdor, with the many High Elves who lived here and then doubled down by helping the Horde get its hands on another weapon of mass destruction ? Or that we have yet to see them even notice the parallels between the Fall of Quel'thalas and the War of Thorns, of course.

    They are nasty, corrupted and vile beings. That's their lore. Deal with it, instead of trying to pretend that they aren't full of liars and hypocrites.

  13. #15933
    Mechagnome Phaelia's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Manariel View Post
    Snip
    Thank you for confirming my point.
    ”I've walked the realms of the dead. I have seen the infinite dark. Nothing you say. Or do. Could possibly frighten me."-Sylvanas Windrunner

  14. #15934
    Quote Originally Posted by Manariel View Post
    Because Blizzard heard the demands made by Alliance players about playable High Elves but thought exactly like Obelisk Kai and others of his ilk do. So they gave us a new "race" who roughly resemble High Elves, but aren't, in any way, shape or form. Blizzard even went out of its way to make sure that those Void Elves were former Blood Elves because their sotry (seeking the Void) was absolutely opposed to what the High Elves are in WoW.
    Blizzard heard your demand and responded accordingly "be respectful when you make your posts" - Blizzcon 2018 Interview: Alex Afrasiabi & Patrick Dawson - Story and Systems | The Lost Codex" https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8nGnT6WZbeI (timestamp 24:18)

    I think that response is very applicable to you Manariel.

    Blizzard also heard the response of the many many players (both Horde and Alliance) who are against the idea of playable high elves as it infringes on race uniqueness and blurs factions lines. So, to meet both parties in between they created the void elf, a compromise one could say.


    Quote Originally Posted by Manariel View Post
    What it did was give us a blueberry and syrup icecream when we were asking for the vanilla and lemon sorbet. Telling us it's exactly the same thing and you can't have the other anyway, even when its flavor is everywhere in Alliance playing experience.
    Here's a similarity for you to meddle on. Why do sports team within a competition (let's use the NFL as an example) use different mascots to each other?? We have the Miami dolphins, but what if the San Fran 49ers decided "hey, we have dolphins on our coastline too so why can't we be the San Fran Dolphins??". Answer, each team reps a different mascot to provide a level of distinction between the teams. It'd be silly and most definitely confusing to many if every team called themselves the 49ers. Likewise, it'd be silly and confusing to many players to make a race already available on the Horde now be available on the Alliance.
    Blood elves are our high elves - Chris Metzen

  15. #15935
    It'd only be confusing for peoples who stop at the aesthetic of a race, Pennem.

    High Elves are NOT in any way, shape or form Blood Elves. Their story has diverged, their themes have diverged, their gfoals have diverged.

    Ion telling us to go play Horde to play High Elves shows that he doesn't know hiw own lore and his a condescending jerk to boot.

    That's the root of the problem. Ans, frankly, it isn't hard to distinguish Blood Elves and High Elevs. if Blizzard is truly worried about something as trivial as that after Pandarens and Void Elves, just change the skeleton. Change the idle animations, the stance, etc.

    It's really that simple. But it'd require Blizzard caring about the Alliance, instead of catering to the Horde only. I honestly can't wait to see when the AR will have added customization, because I'm pretty sure any demands from the Horde will be met, while none of the Alliance will.

  16. #15936
    Almost 800 pages, just because one or two people don't want countless players to enjoy a fair-skinned elf on the Alliance. This is so sad.
    One shot, one kill. This is how I preserve my realm.

  17. #15937
    In the new character creation interface, there is no longer a distinction between basic, allied or neutral races.
    Blizzard also wants players to embody what they want to be by providing more choice in this character creation.

    Blizzard now has the choice of adding the High Elves to the alliance, either as a playable race or as customization for VE.

    One of the two decisions chosen will satisfy me.

  18. #15938
    Quote Originally Posted by Frenchvince View Post
    In the new character creation interface, there is no longer a distinction between basic, allied or neutral races.
    Blizzard also wants players to embody what they want to be by providing more choice in this character creation.

    Blizzard now has the choice of adding the High Elves to the alliance, either as a playable race or as customization for VE.

    One of the two decisions chosen will satisfy me.
    There is a lot of free space in that new character creation screen
    One shot, one kill. This is how I preserve my realm.

  19. #15939
    Legendary! Obelisk Kai's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Manariel View Post
    It'd only be confusing for peoples who stop at the aesthetic of a race, Pennem.

    High Elves are NOT in any way, shape or form Blood Elves. Their story has diverged, their themes have diverged, their gfoals have diverged.

    Ion telling us to go play Horde to play High Elves shows that he doesn't know hiw own lore and his a condescending jerk to boot.

    That's the root of the problem. Ans, frankly, it isn't hard to distinguish Blood Elves and High Elevs. if Blizzard is truly worried about something as trivial as that after Pandarens and Void Elves, just change the skeleton. Change the idle animations, the stance, etc.
    High Elves and Blood Elves share a shape and a form, so there is that.

    As for 'way' the Blood Elves control the high elf lands of Quel'thalas, they control the high elf capital of Silvermoon, they control the high elf government, they control high elf organisations such as the Magisters and the Farstriders AND they are highly suspicious of and distrustful of Humans, just as good King Anasterian was.

    So everything you said there is provably wrong.

    Saying their story, theme and goals have diverged implies and equality of different paths, which is not the case. The exiles theme has in fact disintegrated as they assimilate into their host societies. Their story was always as foils to the Blood Elf storyline, used an Alliance counterpart, a role now usurped by the far more appropriate Void Elves.

    Ion understands the lore just fine, let me assure you, it is the pro High Elf community that has issues with the lore as is and wishes to retcon or overhaul it to facilitate their goal. After all, for all the gushing and praise Traycor received at the start of this thread with his concept art and attempts to create a unique visual for the High Elves, not one pro High Elfer called him out for the fact that what he was proposing had no basis in lore nor in the known history of the High Elf race. It's implementation in game would have been a colossal rewriting of established lore, yet that implicit issue was never actually engaged with by those who applauded his efforts.

    It is hypocritical to suggest the devs don't know the lore when the suggestions supported by the pro High Elf commentators fly completely in the face of established canon and are supported because they are in service of their overall goal. Ion telling you to go Horde was the truth, and the snarkiness of his tone should put paid to this idea that Blizzard won't take a certain course of action (such as blue eyes for Blood Elves) because it offends your sensibilities. If you seek a traditional high elf, that is where you will find one. Just as if I wish to play the closest thing WoW has to a wood elf, I must go Alliance. Faction matters.

    Because faction matters, not everyone can be happy as Pennem wisely stated a few weeks ago. Sometimes your ideal race and the faction you prefer don't end up on the same side. Those who seek the duplication of a core race of one faction on the opposite side are fated to be unhappy. And given Void Elves were as close to a Blood Elf as they are whilst still respecting those boundaries, given that the headcanon roleplay Danuser said is perfectly fine would allow you to roleplay a Void Elf who was a former Silver Covenant member, the continuing rejection of Void Elves as the high elves of the Alliance (which is what they are) drains sympathy entirely.

    Quote Originally Posted by Manariel View Post
    It's really that simple. But it'd require Blizzard caring about the Alliance, instead of catering to the Horde only. I honestly can't wait to see when the AR will have added customization, because I'm pretty sure any demands from the Horde will be met, while none of the Alliance will.
    Plenty of the demands for the Alliance will be met. Longer tails on Draenei, multiple ethnicities on Humans, Dwarven tattoos, maybe even Worgen tails. But you are already setting up a betrayal narrative where Blood Elves will get blue eyes (at this point looking to be a done deal considering a tweet Danuser recently liked of someone specifically mentioning how excited they were for blue eyed Blood Elves as part of the customization improvements) and Void Elves don't get the pristine lily white skin tones that will apparently make them acceptable (because it's about the lore, not the aesthetic, right?).

    So the Alliance will get plenty of what they in general asked for. They probably won't get what you specifically asked for, but that isn't faction favoritism when what you are asking for is wholly unreasonable.

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by Varodoc View Post
    Almost 800 pages, just because one or two people don't want countless players to enjoy a fair-skinned elf on the Alliance. This is so sad.
    Which is of course the pro High Elf method of dealing with detractors. Portray it as killjoys out to ruin the fun of a small group who just want to play their favourite race on their favourite faction.

    At least you acknowledge the demand is for the aesthetic of a fair skinned elf rather than retreating to the fig leaf of 'it's the lore, honest!' which hardly anyone believes of the majority of those seeking high elves.

    Faction diversity matters. Faction integrity matters. Faction identity matters. Faction matters. Duplicating a core race of one faction to the other undermines that faction. Especially when said race happens, not coincidentally, to be the most popular race in that faction and the most popular race in the game.

    Whilst it is seemingly easier to argue for more options rather than defend abstract concepts such as the importance of factions, the argument must still be made. If you don't like the limitations factions impose upon, argue for the removal of those factions or at least cross faction grouping so you can play a blue eyed Blood Elf with Alliance friends. It's an approach that doesn't single out the Horde's most popular race for cross-faction duplication and allows everyone to play with everyone.

  20. #15940
    Quote Originally Posted by Frenchvince View Post
    In the new character creation interface, there is no longer a distinction between basic, allied or neutral races.
    Blizzard also wants players to embody what they want to be by providing more choice in this character creation.

    Blizzard now has the choice of adding the High Elves to the alliance, either as a playable race or as customization for VE.

    One of the two decisions chosen will satisfy me.
    While I think High Elves are completely unlikely at this point, I'm still hoping you guys will have your desires of a fair-skinned elf somewhat fulfilled.

    Blizzard double standards are clearly shown when you see an elf with purple skin in both factions and meanwhile when peoples ask for a fair-skinned Alliance counterpart they act like its something game-breaking.

    It literally makes no sense at all.

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