1. #15941
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    Quote Originally Posted by Varodoc View Post
    After 800 pages, some people still don't understand that High Elf (species) =/= High Elf (affiliation). It's amazing,
    I don't believe it's that some people don't understand. It's that some people want to continually focus on the red herring (race/species) instead of what's really being asked about.

    Again, if the majority were arguing about the red herring then we wouldn't see High Elf threads/High Elf compromise threads still going strong and getting insane amounts of views relative to other threads on the official forums.

    Frankly, tons of people care about elves, and even more care about the High Elf topic in particular. That's why you'll see people who are Neutral who make threads as well, not simply Pro or Against people.

    It's a popular request, and it's not something that's already a forgone conclusion unlike people that hate Pathfinder/never wanted upright Orcs/never wanted tmog in the game. That's why it continues to have high engagement.

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by Ardenaso View Post
    unrelated but this is a very small non-issue hill I'm willing to die on: the third member should've been a Highborne instead of a Human.
    Actually it's kind of funny because in the team sense you could consider Seraphi as the 'half' between Human and Night Elf lol. So Human, High Elf, and Night Elf to show the Alliance spectrum of Human <----------> Elf.


  2. #15942
    Brewmaster elbleuet's Avatar
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    Did you see the new light skinned, blond night elves with blue eyes ? They look AWESOME. Looks like we're getting Highborne too.

    Btw, make High elves playable Blizzard. Let's hope blue eyed void elves are only the beginning.
    "If you want to play alongside High and Void elves, the Alliance is waiting for you"

  3. #15943
    The Lightbringer Ardenaso's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Pennem View Post
    Frankly, tons of people care about elves, and even more care about the High Elf topic in particular. That's why you'll see people who are Neutral who make threads as well, not simply Pro or Against people.

    It's a popular request, and it's not something that's already a forgone conclusion unlike people that hate Pathfinder/never wanted upright Orcs/never wanted tmog in the game. That's why it continues to have high engagement.

    - - - Updated - - -



    Actually it's kind of funny because in the team sense you could consider Seraphi as the 'half' between Human and Night Elf lol. So Human, High Elf, and Night Elf to show the Alliance spectrum of Human <----------> Elf.
    My Horde Alteraci Human thread is lonely and sad right now

    I was thinking the progression spectrum of Night Elf -> Highborne -> High Elf would be better
    The Alliance gets the Horde's most popular race. The Horde should get the Alliance's most popular race in return. Alteraci Humans for the Horde!

    I make Warcraft 3 Reforged HD custom models and I'm also an HD model reviewer.

  4. #15944
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    Quote Originally Posted by elbleuet View Post
    Did you see the new light skinned, blond night elves with blue eyes ? They look AWESOME. Looks like we're getting Highborne too.

    Btw, make High elves playable Blizzard. Let's hope blue eyed void elves are only the beginning.
    I did and they indeed look awesome!

    But y'know because of some snark about 'nothing is final because is alpha' we may not be getting any of the customizations we see at all for any of the races. Cuz y'know "it'S nOT officiaL"

    Despite, y'know some of the datamining being what was shown at Blizzcon.

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by Ardenaso View Post
    My Horde Alteraci Human thread is lonely and sad right now
    Sorry, that's how it is sometimes. I remember seeing a thread on allowing Night Elf Paladins once it was said Void Elves couldn't be. No one commented on it LOL.

    Seems a few more people are talking about it now, so it might just need more backing from the community. Also threads here aren't necessarily guaranteed that Blizzard will see it. They may or may not. It's better to use the official forums for that.

  5. #15945
    Legendary! Obelisk Kai's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ielenia View Post
    Said "opinions" also loved to say "morally grey" this, "morally grey" that... and yet we never had a single "morally grey" moment now, did we?
    Saurfang, who led an invasion of Darkshore that conflicted him, was the definition of morally grey. The morally grey storyline was the storyline of the Horde, not of Sylvanas who was pulling the Horde in a darker direction. As such I am not sure what you are trying to prove with this example, given that what they said existed actually existed, so long as seen from the appropriate point of view.


    Quote Originally Posted by Ielenia View Post
    But not all high elves are blood elves. Do try to have an honest conversation and not try to constantly muddle it, please.
    That distinction you place so much store in is functionally irrelevant in terms of the matter at hand, making the exiles a playable race on the Alliance race. That not all Blood Elves are high elves is meaningless because a high elf option is available.

    Quote Originally Posted by Ielenia View Post
    It's still Blizzard being called out.
    And they happily corrected it. What you seem to get is being the butt of endless jokes. High Dwarves this year, the 'we're all elves' micro holiday two years ago, the incredibly snarky rejection you received in 2018. And of course the Void Elf jokes, some of which seem to be a very sly piss take.


    Quote Originally Posted by Ielenia View Post
    It's not irrelevant, as explained countless times already.
    As the basis for an allied race, a different opinion has been defined as not being enough. Hence, irrelevant.


    Quote Originally Posted by Ielenia View Post
    No, the blood elf option is the blood elf option. The high elf option is currently unavailable in the game.
    While your opinion, it is outweighed by actual developers and creators. If you were to argue Harry Potter was in fact not a Wizard, I would have to go with J.K. Rowling's opinion that he is because she wrote the work. In a similar vein, if Chris Metzen and Ion Hazzikostas say Blood Elves are High Elves, then I would to agree with them given they made/make the game.


    Quote Originally Posted by Ielenia View Post
    So give the high elves some minor physical differences. There. Presto. Done.
    Have you thought about potentially turning them purple and adding some optional tentacles? Those are minor physical differences. It might just be enough actually...


    Quote Originally Posted by Ielenia View Post
    "Mistakes" they didn't learn from because the allied races of void elves and nightborne exist.
    Void Elves and Nightborne are similar, not identical. Between similar and identical is a whole area encompassed by 'difference'. If Void Elves were so close to the high elves that they are repeat of the mistake of neutrality, they would be indistinguishable. Your upset at Void Elves not being what you wanted is in itself proof the mistake was not repeated. If the mistake had been repeated, you wouldn't be here.

    So please choose. Are Void Elves identical to Blood/High Elves?

    If yes, congratulations, you won, enjoy your high elf.
    If no, then the mistake was not repeated and faction diversity was preserved.

  6. #15946
    Quote Originally Posted by elbleuet View Post
    Did you see the new light skinned, blond night elves with blue eyes ? They look AWESOME. Looks like we're getting Highborne too.

    Btw, make High elves playable Blizzard. Let's hope blue eyed void elves are only the beginning.
    Yeah, I'd like to get fel-eyed and golden-eyed void elves next too.
    The Void. A force of infinite hunger. Its whispers have broken the will of dragons... and lured even the titans' own children into madness. Sages and scholars fear the Void. But we understand a truth they do not. That the Void is a power to be harnessed... to be bent by a will strong enough to command it. The Void has shaped us... changed us. But you will become its master. Wield the shadows as a weapon to save our world... and defend the Alliance!

  7. #15947
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    Quote Originally Posted by Varodoc View Post
    Yeah, I'd like to get fel-eyed and golden-eyed void elves next too.
    Since it seems like almost every race is getting a range of eye colors as well as a range of skin options from Light to Dark it's only practical for an opening of diversity to occur within the Allied Races, and here specifically - Void Elves.

    Unfortunately AR fans will have to wait till the original races are all done up first. Which I assume the additional options for original races will all be done by Shadowlands hitting live servers. Then the focus will move to Allied Races.

  8. #15948
    Quote Originally Posted by Pennem View Post
    Since it seems like almost every race is getting a range of eye colors as well as a range of skin options from Light to Dark it's only practical for an opening of diversity to occur within the Allied Races, and here specifically - Void Elves.

    Unfortunately AR fans will have to wait till the original races are all done up first. Which I assume the additional options for original races will all be done by Shadowlands hitting live servers. Then the focus will move to Allied Races.
    Mechagnomes new customization options have been datamined for 9.0, and if I am not mistaken those new blood elf blue eye colors are actually customization for void elves. Looks like we won't have to wait that long after all.
    The Void. A force of infinite hunger. Its whispers have broken the will of dragons... and lured even the titans' own children into madness. Sages and scholars fear the Void. But we understand a truth they do not. That the Void is a power to be harnessed... to be bent by a will strong enough to command it. The Void has shaped us... changed us. But you will become its master. Wield the shadows as a weapon to save our world... and defend the Alliance!

  9. #15949
    Quote Originally Posted by elbleuet View Post
    Did you see the new light skinned, blond night elves with blue eyes ? They look AWESOME. Looks like we're getting Highborne too.

    Btw, make High elves playable Blizzard. Let's hope blue eyed void elves are only the beginning.
    Got any pick for those ?

  10. #15950
    Legendary! Obelisk Kai's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Pennem View Post
    snip
    I was actually referring to the period before the Allied race system was revealed when discussions about Nightborne and Highmountain Tauren were subsumed into wider debates regarding potential sub-races or new races. This happened every single expansion, when new races encountered were evaluated by players who then decided to ask for them as playable. It was Arrakoa and Sabreon in WOD. It was Mogu, Hozen and Jinyu in MOP.

    It's already happening with Shadowlands and the Covenant races. So yeah, people were asking for them, but they were asking for them the same way they'd asked for previous races we assumed were one offs.

    And then when the system was revealed the Nightborne and the Void Elves had already been allocated.

    So there was no huge Horde campaign for Nightborne in the same way there has been a never ending campaign for High Elves for the last decade or so. Just some forum commentators who were proven right because to give the Alliance a thalassian variant, they had to give the Horde a variant of an Alliance race.

    Quote Originally Posted by Pennem View Post
    Otherwise like most things you say, you've convinced yourself of your own headcanon into reality when that's not the case at all.

    You've an entire history of taking snippets from here or there, entirely out of context, and spinning a tale conducive to your own hopes from it. It is what you have always done. So I would rather not be instructed on headcanon from the guy who

    1.) Actually argued that Ion Hazzikostas didn't announce High Elves because Void Elves were having their moment and to announce High Elves too soon would ruin their big day.

    2.) Decides the most important part of a two minute comprehensive rejection of his goal was the line 'anything is possible', despite that clearly being code for 'we've made up our minds'. The majority of the answer, comprehensively demolishing the pro high elf argument, was of significantly greater importance.

    3.) Attempted to argue that off record interaction with a fan, reported by that pro high elf fan, represented a reset of previous rejections.

    4.) Conveniently ignores that the majority of an answer regarding Void Elf customisations was spent on forum behaviour and instead expands 'it's possible' into a promise.

    People in glass houses shouldn't throw stones. Accusing other commentators of constructing their own headcanon is your most egregious example of demonstrable hypocrisy.


    Quote Originally Posted by Pennem View Post
    Yeah he comes off as someone that likes to keep their opinion to themselves when the majority are against that opinion. I'm sure it's relatable to some people.
    Firstly, nasty attitude if you believe the best thing someone can do in a society if the majority is against their opinion is to keep that opinion to themselves. Not quite how democracies are supposed to function.

    Secondly, and speaking of headcanon, since when did you get the idea that the majority are in favour of what you want? The truth is this is the nerdiest of niche topics on an aging game. I'd say only a hundred or so people scattered across the multiple warcraft websites are invested enough to keep the topic going because I certainly see the same names cropping up again and again. Assuming 'most people support what I want' is the height of hubris.

    The vast majority don't care. That they don't care doesn't give you the right to appropriate their support in your commentary.


    Quote Originally Posted by Pennem View Post
    Nope, it's always been, and has become more about ensuring a limitation is placed on Alliance's thalassian elves. Basically instead of arguing for more character customization options for everyone, they're focused on limiting options. How petty is that shit. Especially after having access to Nightborne.
    This is a strawman. Each group should have customisation options available that in their line with their theme and origin. But Moorgard was specifically asked if certain customisation proposed for the core races violated lore. It is safe to infer from the fact he was asked that that when the time comes to review allied race customisations he will be asked the same thing. Unlike the core races, the Allied races in many cases have far tighter origins that will be much more difficult to wriggle around.

    It is safe to assume Mag'har won't be green. It is safe to assume Highmountain would suddenly get cow horns. It is safe to assume a Nightborne won't end up looking like a Night Elf just out of the woods. And it's safe to assume that whatever the Void Elves get, they will still unambiguously be Void Elves.
    Last edited by Obelisk Kai; 2020-04-27 at 03:29 PM.

  11. #15951
    Brewmaster elbleuet's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Manariel View Post
    Got any pick for those ?


    1:33

    For the blue eyes :

    2:17

    They look like to High elves' eyes to me
    "If you want to play alongside High and Void elves, the Alliance is waiting for you"

  12. #15952
    Quote Originally Posted by Alixie View Post
    They got those changes with the addition of gold eyes to reflect the Sunwell's new holy energies. Blood Elves already got a lot of special attention, lots of lore and exclusive classes. Time to give some other races, or potential new allied races, nice things too.
    all races are getting new customizations

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by elbleuet View Post


    1:33

    For the blue eyes :

    2:17

    They look like to High elves' eyes to me
    blonde blue eye elves for the alliance!! queldorei!! (highborne)!!!


    I'm glad you guys have queldorei!

    we can have blue-eyed blood elves and everyone happy!

  13. #15953
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    Quote Originally Posted by Obelisk Kai View Post
    Secondly, and speaking of headcanon, since when did you get the idea that the majority are in favour of what you want? The truth is this is the nerdiest of niche topics on an aging game. I'd say only a hundred or so people scattered across the multiple warcraft websites are invested enough to keep the topic going because I certainly see the same names cropping up again and again. Assuming 'most people support what I want' is the height of hubris.
    Unlike any of the anti-helfers who can't come up with any of their own numbers, it's pretty easy to destroy this "I'd say only a hundred or so people" are wanting High Elves.

    https://www.reddit.com/r/wow/comment...s_so/?sort=top

    703 upvotes aka people in favor of Alterac Humans for Horde if Alliance can get High Elves.

    Please show me your proof of 'only a hundred want High Elves' now please. I'll wait.

  14. #15954
    Brewmaster elbleuet's Avatar
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    "All High elves are neutral"
    "High elves are Horde"
    "Nobody wants High elves"
    "Every Horde player wants blue eyed blood elf"

    Anti-Helfers don't know what to say anymore to bring new arguments on the table.

    Since TBC, High elves are one of the most requested race ever. Deal with it
    Last edited by elbleuet; 2020-04-27 at 04:32 PM.
    "If you want to play alongside High and Void elves, the Alliance is waiting for you"

  15. #15955

    blonde blue eyes elves for the alliance(?)



    I think they are queldorei (highborne)


  16. #15956
    Legendary! Obelisk Kai's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Pennem View Post
    Unlike any of the anti-helfers who can't come up with any of their own numbers, it's pretty easy to destroy this "I'd say only a hundred or so people" are wanting High Elves.

    https://www.reddit.com/r/wow/comment...s_so/?sort=top

    703 upvotes aka people in favor of Alterac Humans for Horde if Alliance can get High Elves.

    Please show me your proof of 'only a hundred want High Elves' now please. I'll wait.
    It's funny that in my previous post I mentioned your bad habit of taking only a snippet of information and repurposing it out of context because in your response you've taken only a snippet and repurposed it out of context. I have to assume you have no valid rebuttals for the other points raised.

    Now, as for your apparent 'gotcha' moment, I wasn't striving for accuracy. I was using a very rough ballpark figure to encompass the number of people who bother to post and keep the argument going on forums, antis and pros alike. So when I said a hundred or so people, I wasn't even referring to just pro high elf. Nor I am even going to the defend the number. It could be 200, it could be 50, the important part is that it's niche.

    Yet on reddit you cite a post that has 700 upvotes. 700. That's a similar number to those who have signed the pro High Elf petition across the past two years.

    But 700. Real mass movement you've got going there.

    You know, the WoW classic community managed to get a petition going that garnered a quarter of a million signatures and they utilised the same tools you attempted to use, a petition website, youtube videos, reddit conversations and forum posts. Those tools were capable of reaching AND convincing a quarter of a million people.

    But when you talk about a majority of people supporting you, you come back with a few hundred. Your own figure.

  17. #15957
    Quote Originally Posted by Obelisk Kai View Post
    Saurfang, who led an invasion of Darkshore that conflicted him, was the definition of morally grey. The morally grey storyline was the storyline of the Horde, not of Sylvanas who was pulling the Horde in a darker direction. As such I am not sure what you are trying to prove with this example, given that what they said existed actually existed, so long as seen from the appropriate point of view.
    And yet... the reason that the Horde rebelled was because Sylvanas was running the Horde ragged, not because of the immoral actions she forced them to take, like burning Teldrassil, or massacring Brennadam.

    That distinction you place so much store in is functionally irrelevant in terms of the matter at hand,
    Except it's not. It's still quite relevant. They may be the same race, but they are separate. They are a separate group. They're thalassian elves who rejected the decision to drain mana from living beings, and reject their cousins' allegiance to the Horde. And on top of that, the "too low population argument" has been thrown out the window with the introduction of void elves.

    And they happily corrected it.
    Doesn't change the fact they were wrong.

    What you seem to get is being the butt of endless jokes.
    So your argument is that Blizzard just loves to make fun of their player base? Is that it? Because I remember other sections of their player base being the "butt of endless jokes" as well.

    As the basis for an allied race, a different opinion has been defined as not being enough. Hence, irrelevant.
    Care to source me where Blizzard said that "high elves are not different enough", please?

    Have you thought about potentially turning them purple and adding some optional tentacles? Those are minor physical differences. It might just be enough actually...
    Yeah, I have. And I spoke about it more than one. A pity it happened to blood elves instead of the high elves.

    Void Elves and Nightborne are similar, not identical.
    They are identical where "faction lines/identity" are concerned. I've shown that you simply cannot differentiate one for the other in the field before the red color of their outline or name tells you which one they are.

    So please choose. Are Void Elves identical to Blood/High Elves?

    If yes, congratulations, you won, enjoy your high elf.
    If no, then the mistake was not repeated and faction diversity was preserved.
    Your question is entirely predicated on this idea of yours of "us wanting the blood elf model", which has been explained, time and again, that this is not the case.

  18. #15958
    Quote Originally Posted by Manariel View Post
    And yet, not once ingame or outside do Blood Elves call themselves High Elves. Not anymore. They have relinquished their claim on this name, which now is used only by the Alliance affiliated thalassian elves who don't dabble into dangerous and volatile magic. The Alliance thalassian elves who do dable in the most corruptive form of magic however, are all former Blood Elves and are now called Void Elves.

    But by lore, questing and player's experience, I can assure you that High Elves =/= Blood Elves, but that Blood Elves =~= Void Elves
    its like talking to a wall, they don't use that name anymore because blood elves is the name they use to honor the dead. A RENAME=/=A RACE CHANGE lol now yes the main difference between the elves from Quel Thelas and the ones in the alliance affiliated areas are that the Blood Elves had to resort to fel and stealing mana from creatures due to their mana addiction from the sunwell. the other elves most likely relied on power sources from Dalaran itself.

    High Elves = All Elves from Quel'Thelas
    Blood Elves = All High Elves who stayed in the City and witnessed the carnage from WC3 basically, changed name to honor the dead
    Void Elves = High Elves=Blood Elves who dabbled in void, got corrupted and banished from Quel'Thelas
    Silver Covenant Elves = Also High Elves but they basically don't really associate with their home anymore

    Shit if you want to get techinical

    All High Elves are Sunwell mutated Highborne Night Elves who needed a new source to feed their mana addiction after being banished from night elf society after the collapse of the well of eternity. We're getting Night Elf Highborne Colors in SL

    Basically it progressed from the following
    Dark Trolls-->Found Well of Eternity-->Evolved into Night Elfs--->Highborne Night Elves Banished--->Found Sunwell-->Evolved into what they called High Elves--->WC3 Happened--->High Elves renamed themselves to Blood Elves to honor the dead--->Some left due to not wanting to rely on fel or sucking the mana from creatures to feed their addiction and went to Dalaran or other Alliance affiliations even though we abandoned them during WC3 basically

    After the Sunwell Mutation the only differentiating factor is eye and skin color for High Elves. You don't like Void Elves because you want fair skin with blue eyes even though regardless they're still High Elves lol

  19. #15959
    Quote Originally Posted by bloodykiller86 View Post
    its like talking to a wall, they don't use that name anymore because blood elves is the name they use to honor the dead. A RENAME=/=A RACE CHANGE lol now yes the main difference between the elves from Quel Thelas and the ones in the alliance affiliated areas are that the Blood Elves had to resort to fel and stealing mana from creatures due to their mana addiction from the sunwell. the other elves most likely relied on power sources from Dalaran itself.

    High Elves = All Elves from Quel'Thelas
    Blood Elves = All High Elves who stayed in the City and witnessed the carnage from WC3 basically, changed name to honor the dead
    Void Elves = High Elves=Blood Elves who dabbled in void, got corrupted and banished from Quel'Thelas
    Silver Covenant Elves = Also High Elves but they basically don't really associate with their home anymore
    Huh?

    The Void. A force of infinite hunger. Its whispers have broken the will of dragons... and lured even the titans' own children into madness. Sages and scholars fear the Void. But we understand a truth they do not. That the Void is a power to be harnessed... to be bent by a will strong enough to command it. The Void has shaped us... changed us. But you will become its master. Wield the shadows as a weapon to save our world... and defend the Alliance!

  20. #15960
    Brewmaster elbleuet's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by bloodykiller86 View Post
    High Elves = All Elves from Quel'Thelas

    https://wow.gamepedia.com/High_elf

    Just for you. Good read

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by Varodoc View Post
    Huh?

    Hahahaha nice one
    "If you want to play alongside High and Void elves, the Alliance is waiting for you"

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