Official High Elf Discussion Megathread

[Varodoc]

^The third one is like a genderbent Alleria. Cool.

[Kyriani]

While I'm not quite yet ready to believe that Ion's/The Dev Team's position on playable Alliance High Elves has "softened", it will be interesting to see if there are any actual developments for Alliance High Elves in Shadowlands (beyond just basic npc cosmetic updates). If there's no story elements touching specifically on the Alliance allied High Elves, I won't get my hopes up. But if there's story there... and even moreso if there's actual model work done (say a new or modified model for High Elf npcs or a new Half-Elf model for Arator), then I might begin to believe the Devs could actually be considering it.

[Frenchvince]

There I do not see a blood elf

[yana]

The first pic is what my true desires are

But the 2nd pic is what I'd compromise with.

Honestly though the first pic shows just how different a High Elf is from a Void Elf. And it's a look you wouldn't see on Blood Elves! So I wonder if in the end they would just make High Elves a separate option.

With the character creation revamp they've allowed themselves a wide berth of playable options, and I don't think majority of Alliance fans will be disappointed to get races they're familiar with. A lot of the complaints from Allied Races on Alliance comes from them being completely new races with no familiarity among the Alliance.

Blizzard has catered to 'new player' races already. It's time for 'old favorites' ! imo

those are braids and tatoos... in the same model.... a void elf can have braids and tatoos too lol.
you guys reach at straws in the most desperate fashion.

At least the edits are well done, they look pretty ... ish

[Mace]

Night Elves were created to be the warcraft spin on wood elves. It's there in black and white in the interview. The ability to be Mages is a concession to player choice, but one implemented consistent with established Night Elf lore i.e. underlying hostility to arcane magic.

You do love your own head, but it's one thing to have your own perspective it's another thing to drive one through when you are quite clearly shown otherwise, and told otherwise. But then it makes a lot of sense, given your attitude towards high elves.

You have convinced yourself that blizzard want magic wielding elves only on the horde, and that it's not a thing at all amongst Night elves, nor should it be, and in order to make it so, you are willing to literally ignore their lore, ignore what's shwon about them in game, then are dismissive of anyone who points out otherwise to you. Your excuse? "Their numbers are small" (though you go on as if their numbers don't exist , "that was in their past" as if history and current both don't show this and as if somehow being the past makes it not night elven - which is utterly ridiculous.. only someone with an extreme agenda that has convinced himself would buy that



Clearly stated here in this interview
https://web.archive.org/web/20010205...667651,00.html




Clearly shown stated in the books WotA and Wolfheart, and shown in game in 1.1, 4.0, 6.0, 7.0 and 8.0 - clear as day infront of your eyes, ancient and modern cities there, arcane wielding night elven groups and legends all there, and certainly playable options , all there. Not even the Darnassian group is druidic, it's priest led with the druids largely concentrated in the cenarion circle.

But keep kidding yourself dude. In your campaign against high elves. You will only end up being very disappointed. The same blizzard who took the alliance high elf and shared it with the horde, and did the same with the Night elf in 8.0, made the blood elf model playable back on the original faction of the race is the same blizzard that will not stop there. Arcane magic, elven civilization is not the exclusive purview of the horde elves, no matter how much you want it to be, and are excited and happy about it, and want to pretend the rest of the lore of the Night elves is irrelevant or doesn't matter, so you can keep believing what you want to.. Do not mistake the Nightborne going horde as some sort of vindication, if you truly want to see truth, then open your eyes and see what you are refusing to see.

Change your view and interpretation to align with the truth of how things actually are, or you will be bitterly disappointed when things don't go your way.

[yana]

You do love your own head, but it's one thing to have your own perspective it's another thing to drive one through when you are quite clearly shown otherwise, and told otherwise. But then it makes a lot of sense, given your attitude towards high elves.

You have conveinced yourself that blizzard want magic wielding elves only on the horde, and that it's not a thing amongst Night elves, and as such you literally ignore thier lore, ignore what's shwon about them in game, then are dismissive of anyone who points out otherwise to you.



Clearly stated here in this interview
https://web.archive.org/web/20010205...667651,00.html




Clearly shown stated in the books WotA and Wolfheart, and shown in game in 1.1, 4.0, 6.0, 7.0 and 8.0 - clear as day infront of your eyes, ancient and modern cities there, arcane wielding night elven groups and legends all there, and certainly playable options , all there. Not even the Darnassian group is druidic, it's priest led with the druids largely concentrated in the cenarion circle.

But keep kidding yourself dude. In your campaign against high elves. You will only end up being very disappointed. The same blizzard who took the alliance high elf and shared it with the horde, and did the same with the Night elf in 8.0, made the blood elf model playable back on the original faction of the race is the same blizzard that will not stop there. Arcane magic, elven civilization is not the exclusive purview of the horde elves, no matter how much you want it to be, and are excited and happy about it, and want to pretend the rest of the lore of the Night elves is irrelevant or doesn't matter, so you can keep believing what you want to.. Do not mistake the Nightborne going horde as some sort of vindication, if you truly want to see truth, then open your eyes and see what you are refusing to see.

Change your view and interpretation to align with the truth of how things actually are, or you will be bitterly disappointed when things don't go your way.

you understand their dark elven traits steem from their preference of the night and darkness, underground burrows, a matriarchal (ish) society around a goddess, and in its priestess and wardens, not the highborne arcane magic that wasnt present in any way in their introduction in warcraft 3, with that conection being distant cousins. You understand that, right?

how are you posting an interview about wc3 as evidence, when the still living highborne you claim are sooooo important to the kaldorei, werent even created until warcraft classic and wouldnt join the rest of night elven society until cataclysm.
that's what? almost a decade betwen the two?

Make it make sense or stop reaching, night elves made it their pathos to REJECT and OPOSE to that type of arcane elven societies you claim is soooo important, it isnt.
you can kill every non horde highborne and you wouldnt even lose the mage class since we have new mages and conections to dalaran.
They are an insignificant footnote, an historic reference of what the night elves used to be.

[The Silver Covenant]

Would they be different enough to satisfy Alliance High Elf advocates, and different enough for Horde players to not feel that their Blood Elves are diminished?

Why would Horde players feel diminished? Blood Elves are rightfully an Alliance race. That’s why this whole High Elf issue started in the first place and remains alive for 15+ years.

Alliance players have had their Warcraft fantasy “diminished” since TBC gave their race to the wrong faction. Blizzard should fix the issue now rather than dragging it out any longer.

[The Silver Covenant]

That's not the point, I'm asking if both sides could agree on this as a compromise

Yes or no.

If someone walks into my house and steals my stuff, I shouldn’t have to compromise to get it back. That’s infuriating logic.

[Varodoc]

I swear this "faction identity" argument is so stupid. Literally no one cares about faction identity anymore. As I proved earlier, a void elf and a blood elf can look identical. It's time to move on. Faction identity is no longer an issue, neither for pink skin tones for void elves, nor for playable high elves.

[The Silver Covenant]

If you're not going to respond to my question, then why even bother replying to me in the first place? I asked a question, and I don't care whether you think the logic is faulty or not. Blizzard, presumably has to please both sides, would this be a way to do it?

Yes or no.

Blizzard has no obligation or desire to please both sides when it comes to allied races or customizations, as every allied race so far has proven.

[Traycor]

ALRIGHT, IN AN ATTEMPT TO BRING THIS AWAY FROM ACADEMIC ESSAY LENGTH PARAGRAPHS OF TEXT

At a base level, what would you @Obelisk Kai and the rest of you fine folk think of Alliance High Elves but with a slimmer version of the human male model for instance, with tattoos, long ears and all that jazz, or a slimmer version of the Night Elf model? That way they are not just Horde Blood Elves but with blue eyes and tattoos.

Would they be different enough to satisfy Alliance High Elf advocates, and different enough for Horde players to not feel that their Blood Elves are diminished?

Personally I don't think the human model & animations feel very elf-like. I'd much rather they updated the idle animation/posture so the high elves would have a different silhouette and feel compared to blood elves. That would be a simple change that would make a huge difference.

[Varodoc]

If you're not going to respond to my question, then why even bother replying to me in the first place? I asked a question, and I don't care whether you think the logic is faulty or not. Blizzard, presumably has to please both sides, would this be a way to do it?

Yes or no.

Why do they need to please both sides? They did not please the Alliance when they made nightborne Horde, and iirc they even said they weren't trying to please the Alliance and knew they would react negatively.

[delus]

Dang too many comments to read through! Funny though how y'all have bashed on ion constantly and now hold his word as 'truth'. I suggest you apply the same logic to his comments about high elves blurring faction lines.

It's a bummer blood elves aren't getting blue eyes, as it'd be fitting for blood elf mages but it is what it is and I'll accept the reasoning behind it, given its come from the Devs. Likewise though, I still agree with the reasoning that high elves would just blur faction lines and strongly believe that void elves should maintain their void aesthetic as they have transformed from a light skinned elf and did not undergo the same transformation as Alleria.

Blood elves have moved away from the past. They should be their own thing and further distanced from the high elves of the past. It's a shame they moved away from fel corruption and dark magics. But hey, maybe they can get light runes.

[Traycor]

Skywall would be an ideal city for the High Elves to use. If this doesn't scream high elf, I don't know what does.













A masterpiece sitting there, in a forgotten past, having no real use except for legacy raids, should be utilised as the new home of the High elves in my opinion.

Now that is a very interesting idea Ravenmoon! I never thought of that before, and it has a distinctly high elf look and feel.

[The Silver Covenant]

Final time I'm going to ask this, and it's really just not a very hard question to answer:

Yes or no? Would you be pleased with the introduction of Alliance High Elves but with a slimmer version of the human male model, with tattoos, long ears, earrings and all that jazz, or a slimmer version of the Night Elf model with the same?

Without all of your weird previous qualifications: No.

Standalone allied race or cosmetic options for void elves are acceptable. Even some lighter hair colors would do wonders to make their skin look more normal without adding any new skin shades. If you think about it, the lack of a blonde hair option really limits the Void Elf color range too much and forces them to look like some zoomer’s idea of a goth.

[Varodoc]

If they did not need to please both sides they would've added High Elves years ago because this is not a new request.

Final time I'm going to ask this, and it's really just not a very hard question to answer:

Yes or no? Would you be pleased with the introduction of Alliance High Elves but with a slimmer version of the human male model, with tattoos, long ears, earrings and all that jazz, or a slimmer version of the Night Elf model with the same?

- - - Updated - - -



I understand, I would prefer a blood elf model with a different posture as well but as a compromise, if it was my suggestion or nothing at all ever, what would your response be then?

- - - Updated - - -



You're also arguing the premise instead of answering the question, I don't care about your objections, if you're not going to answer my question don't reply at all, or object as much as you want as long as you answer the question. Are you terrified that Blizzard is prowling the thread looking for any excuse to not give you what you want, is that it?

One side wants Alliance High Elves, the other doesn't want to let the Alliance have High Elves, I'm asking if this is a point in the middle where the two sides can meet and shake hands, and you're saying ''Why should they have to?''

Okay but Blizzard still doesn't need to please both sides, and absolutely didn't do that with nightborne.

Listen mate, this is a forum, not your personal blog. If you make a false premise, people will debunk it. Deal with it.

[Mace]

@Obelisk Kai Hate to break it to you, but blizzard didn't make Night elves to be wood elves - they would have called them that, they had no trouble calling high elves that because that is what they are and intend them to be.. Night elves are night elves, fusion of the best of the dark and wood elves, not exclusive wood elves like you want to think. When blizzard want a group to be something else, they change the name. Note how it is the same Kaldorei at the height of the arcane civilization as well as through the Long vgigil, and in the current era after both these.

You're so desperate for magical wielding, civilization elves to be horde only, you're not seeing that this is not the dynamic in Warcraft. It's not set up like that. And an otherwise fairly intelligent person, is reduced to foolishness, all the clever arguments just showing how much we can be deluded rather than making some justifiable point.

If you really saw this, you would not be so adamant against high elves, and youwouldn't be making statements like Night elves are intended to be ONLY wood elves.

[baskev]

WoW thread is still going strong. 2 years and 1 month ago...that must be a record for this forum :S.

But on subject.

I read back a few pages ago. even saw the great mock up for a high elf race. But here are my 2 cents about it.

Why it should happen:
- core alliance race.
- a wishlist item ( and we got 1 out of our 4 wishes) so would be nice getting atleast 1. ( others being kul tiran/vry kul that look like big strong humans ( not fat ones), dark iron dwarfs, broken dreanei, high elves).
- could add a strong magic race to the alliance. we have a lot of tech, light races. But we lack druids and arcane like races.
- they also look cool as warriors ( as fighters i mean). Something we also need. next to all the funny races we have.


Why it will not happen:
- according to blizz high elves are blood elves ( even though ingame that has debunked, see patch 7.3.5 ) and they look nothing alike.
- they do not want to blurr the line with races that look to much alike ( even though nightborn >night elves, blood elves > void elves)
- they are a wishlist item for the alliance. horde wanted upright orcs/trolls, more color trolls, zandalari trolls got all their wishes.
- they are cool. lets look at the alliance races. Dark iron are cool. Mechagnomes are gnomes always ment to be funny. And void elves are funny called emo and there /silly is making fun of that. so blizz knows what they did there. Same goes for kul tirans. And lightforged are even worse.
- on top of that , it would mean giving the alliance a 3th acctual allied race. because right now it has 2. Void creaturs excist beyong elves meaning its more a affliction then a race, and lightforged had a human ( or is he still lightforged) and almost a night elf ( illidan) as member. So more a class then a race.
- they say there are not enough high elves. But if you look at the numbers/story's etc. the high elves are more numerous as void elves ( and after teldrassil i would say night elves).


Could they make it happen:
- nope , i think void elves is the closest they dare to come.
- it also means they need to take a favorite race from the horde and copy it. And they would never do that to the horde.
- only way is to give the horde a alliance race. But storywise...worgen, night elves, dreanei and a lot of humans hate them. Dwarfs also do not like them and gnomes...i do not know.

[Varodoc]

Alright, Blizzard probably doesn't need to do anything but in this case they -want- to please both sides, otherwise High Elves would've been added years ago since it's not a new request.

Listen mate, You're still dancing around a yes or no question, I'm completely baffled. The premise of whether or not Blizzard needs to do anything is so irrelevant to the topic, and was only an attempt to have you people actually commit to an answer.

Nice backtrack. You were called out on your BS and now are trying to ignore your baseless premise. The truth is that Blizz already proved many times that they dont care about pleasing both sides when it comes to allied races.

Also why would they need to please both sides when it comes to high elves? High elf identity belongs to the Alliance, in the form of void elves and Silver Covenant. Blood elves evolved beyond their high elf identity, as Ion recently confirmed.

In case my answer wasn't obvious enough, No, a compromise isn't required.

[Mace]

you understand their dark elven traits steem from their preference of the night and darkness, underground burrows, a matriarchal (ish) society around a goddess, and in its priestess and wardens, not the highborne arcane magic that wasnt present in any way in their introduction in warcraft 3, with that conection being distant cousins. You understand that, right?

Don't kid yourself yana. anything to deny what you're clearly shown about night elves. As if a vast arcane civilization, the lore's leading arcane magic users (Azshara, Illidan), the lore's most advanced magical civilization and race highlighted tobe born from that magical essence. With dev interviews clear about what they want them to be, yet, deciding to show the forest bit first - because that is the stage in the lore they introduce them at, suddenly has some people thinking that is all there is to them.

Yet despite a lot of lore saying otherwise, interviews staying otherwise, and then continuous and consistent in game building on and showing more of that arcane side, dark elf half including Suramar and Zin'Azshari - and yet some people so desperately want tit not to be Night elf so it isn't alliance but instead their fave faction horde, are literally saying ANYTHING, I mean ANYTHING to deny them this.

how are you posting an interview about wc3 as evidence

I think posting evidence of developer intentions for the race in response to a false claim about developer intentions for the race is appropriate, don't you think? You'd be right at home in today's mass media - not concerned at all about how things actually are, but instead wanting to twist them into your view. The sad part, is that despite being called out on it, and shown it directly - anything to say otherwise.

Make it make sense or stop reaching, night elves made it their pathos to REJECT and OPOSE to that type of arcane elven societies you claim is soooo important, it isnt.

Now according to you, the Night elves don't have an arcane side, or aren't half dark elves because they apparently reject and oppose arcane elven societies now. Not only is that never stated, never shown, never hinted at, it is a classic case of you takeing their WC3 state and jumping to your own clonclusion regardless of what the lore says. .

• I never once saw Shen'dralar rejecting night elven arcane civilizations.
• I never once saw Moonguard rejecting night elven arcane civilizations.
• I never once saw Kaldorei Darnassians rejecting night elven civilizations - arcane or otherwise nor have it told that way.

What I did witness an account of, was the Legion destroying Night elven arcane civilization 10,000 years ago, and the survivors banning the practice of the arcane , the very thing needed to rebuild said civilizations quite clearly stated doing so was to prevent the Legion from returning to the world. Worth laying aside their magic for that period. This doesn't show the night elves as some anti-arcane, or nature -only race, it shows them as incredible noble and willing to sacrifice a huge part of their livs to protect the world (or atone fro what their hubris caused) - I mean are you so caught up in your faction biased world view you can't even see something very simply and straightforward shown

Yet you will draw your conclusions and ignore the civilization that restarts after the Long vigil returns, ignore the very Shen'dralar, Moonguard, and Nightborne too as evidences to the contrary.

• Did blizzard show the night elves evolve into some nature altered race?
• Did blizzard show the Night elves without any arcane? (no, Moonwells and the Well of Eternity were at the centre of the Long vigil period, with the arcane properties being used - just not for spell casting)?
• Did blizzard show no arcane wielding night elves at all, did they wipe them out completely and have no trace of arcane in the night elves and their classes and abilities??
• Did blizzard change the name of the night elves to Wood elves? or the Kaldorei - children of the stars to Children of the forests?

• Is it not more likely that t he long vigil was a period only void of arcane practice, not actually the arcane?
• Is it not more likely that the long vigil period was there to hold a vigil (which means a watch) for the return of the Legion and not a means to remove the arcane from the night elves. I mean it is called the Long vigil - not the transformation into nature elves?
• WAs it

Night elves are both arcane and nature duality. The best of the dark elf and wood elf combined. They are not pure arcane elves, nor are they pure forest elves, -that's not what blizzard is doing here with this race. What makes you think blizzard wanted a generic wood elf race? They wanted a dark elf race made interesting by having a nature element to it (not the other way round).

Having their civilization destroyed, and the main group having to go 10k years without arcane practice does not mean the night elf race nor this group that clearly has this portion restored suddenly not having an arcane side or blizzard some how not meaning them to.

• It is blizzard that gave them this lore
• It is blizzard that made the Well of Eternity and the arcane and moonwells central to them.
• It is blizzard that put them in forests, then took them out.
• It is blizzard that gave them cities, took them way, gave them back aagain, took away.
• It is blizzard that created Highborne, arcane users, druids, nature users, Elune as part of their package.
• It is blizzard that wrote the kaldorei to survive, then the Shen'dralar highborne to also survive, then the Nightborne and Moonguard to also survive - or should the druids existence be the only valid one because that's what you, who is not a night elf fan, want for them?
• Is it not also blizzard that dgave Darnassus, then a pristine night elf civilization city in Suramar, powerful arcane wielding night elven individuals like Azshara, Illidan, Elisande and groups like the Highborne, Moonguard and Nightborne?

Please inform me what you think the developers are actually saying, based on what you read in that interview and what you've witnessed in game and in the 5 out of 6 night elf based books full of arcane casting and wielding by Night elves??

@yana - so we've sussed you out on this issue. You're not only opposed to alliance having playable high elves, you're opposed to alliance high elves and you're opposed to Night elven civilization and their arcane side, as you're clearly arguing in denial of it. Just like Obelisk Kai - another horde fan wanting only his/her elves to look good, have magic, and have cool cities. Yet though the other faction elves have this clearly as part of their lore and race, - nope, let's bee in denial, Night elves are forest savage elves - because I look down on that, which is why I play horde and the superior elves, who are the right race, the best, - cos the other elves have to be the worse possibly they can be. .. is that not you? Am I wrong here?