Official High Elf Discussion Megathread

[matrix123mko]

*eyeroll* Why people can't just make observations without unnecesary value judgements?

Because the life would be boring.

A big chunk of the early questing experience and set up is how the Farstriders have lost influence given the formation of the Blood Knights.

But Halduron still stands next to Regent Lord.

Who said it was bad? I'm just making an observation as to where BE's seem to be moving culturally and aesthetically. Don't take someone else's comments as a value judgement when one is just pointing out to differences. I'm not even implying one is better than the other.

I am a bit more emotional. I like magisters but I highly dislike new blood knights.

[MyWholeLifeIsThunder]

Druids Fit Elves Better and Were Designed for them
Druid should replace shaman or have its own category of potential key class, especially in distinguishing High elves from Blood elves

1. Druidism is elven in root
2. All elves share love of nature, it is highly likely that you would have high elves who have a magical affinity to accelerate their nature love, and would develop up similar to the kaldorei druids. Now in the alliance, these high elves can be reconciled with their kin, druidism is about nature, it's not about the elven disputes.
3. Nature magic pracitioners should be a staple in all elves if youa sk me. What people don't get is that you don't need a druidic culture or druidism to be a large part of your race for druids to be playable.

I feel that High elves and other elven derivative races actually have a stronger claim to druidism than every other race, because of the Night elf root and the love for nature that continued and is inherently part of the elf make up. I have always thought it weird that only the arcane magical acumen and light abilities continue in the high elves but not the nature ones.

3 Staple magical classes of ALL elves should be Mage, Priest and Druid - arcane love, devotion love and nature love in their magical forms.
Hunter and rogue are the main staple physical damage classes of the elves.


The Reason Elves Aren't Shaman

There is no need, everything a shaman needs an elemental to do, an Elf can do it himself using the arcane, from generating fire, water (and frost), air, earth - the arcane can be used to do all these things. The Night elves when they discovered the arcane realised it to be the base of all magic, through it they could manipulate the very building blocks of the universe - which is why they can create all these things.

A mage /mage touched culture, would have no need for shamanism. And if elves ever get to play the shaman class, it would not be the same version as the Tauren/orcs/trolls/ Goblins or Kul'tirans, it would be an arcane based one coming from an aspect of magic, and likely something the Mooonguard (night elves ) and Duskguard (Nightborne) would bring mastery from the past to utilise such.

The love of nature is also more pronounced and fulfilled in druidism which is an elven developed study. It makes shamanism like the other races do, totally redundant in the elves, and is why no Elf race is shaman, nor should ever be that type of shaman the other races have (but if they get the playstyle, it should have a different class lore that is elven based.)



Skywall would be an ideal city for the High Elves to use. If this doesn't scream high elf, I don't know what does.













A masterpiece sitting there, in a forgotten past, having no real use except for legacy raids, should be utilised as the new home of the High elves in my opinion.

It doesn't scream High Elf because it's not high elf at all... it has no connection to them save for what you favor as an aesthetic. Yeah, it looks "elven" but devoid of WoW's specific context for High Elves, and don't we wan't High Elves because of their specific context? Like IDK, if you really care only about the look I'm gonna sound like a anti helfer and just say "play horde"

To me, there is an aesthetic that screams "highborne" at least, and those are the highborne ruins of Aszuna. Which by nature of being highborne structures, ressemble a middle point between kaldorei and thalassian aesthetics.





As you can see, the lodge structure resembles the kaldorei lodges -including the HE ones used on the Hinterlands and Plaguelands- One could argue that the structures in Quel'danil shouldn't look like kaldorei architecture, rather, more or a middle point, and I think that reskinned Aszunan buildings (more wood textures and less moon imagery) could easily serve to evoke a "throwback" high elven aesthetic.

Otherwsie, IMO it's hard to conceive a modern high elven aesthetic that is not hybridized with human aesthetics (for example, Dalaran)

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But Halduron still stands next to Regent Lord.

Influence, as in social standing. Lor'themar himself was a farstrider, obviously he's not gonna shun the organization itself, the point is that the BE's as a society started to respect blood knights a lot more -like when you /eye the guards- Farstriders where THE military, but with the advent of the BK, now they have to share those duties, and we have seen Liadrin leading the belven troops a lot more than Halduron. There has obviously been a diminishing in power and status on the Farstriders.

I am a bit more emotional. I like magisters but I highly dislike new blood knights.

Okay.

[baskev]

very well said Baskev. I agree with your points.

The very high demand may eventually sway blizzard otherwise eventually. I really think they should first aim for making night elves very attractive, and also give more attractive humans, maybe like a half elf human race, I personally feel these would go a long way without having to give high elves as playable. If the demand is still high after these, then I feel thy should. They already gave the horde purple Night elves, they didn't even make them pale skinned. It is hypocritical to then deny pale skinned Thalassian elves. However a prettier night elf highborne based model might be suitable enough compensation or a worthier exchange. Face it, Nightborne aren't pretty.

night elves pretty: simple give us ( play night elf since launch) highborn option. Let us make aszhara like night elves.

Humans + kul tirans: they still look saggy, plane ( only human males can pass right now). But yeah they need hard upgrades 2.

Half human/elf race: Nope i think that comes to close to what they do not want.

Maybe give void elves the ability like worgen. Be non void out of combat and void when in combat?

But for me the alliance needs a new race that is both lore heavy + cool/pretty looking + looks like a warrior/can handle themselves race.

Because lets be real this is what we got:

Lightforged: silly religous fanatics. That are pretty much just dreanei with tattoo's that glow. And not a race but a class. Little lore, and come over as very blind ( to the light) fanatics.

Void elves: emo elves that are always very close to fall to the dark side ( void side). That look like smurfs or blood/high elves that fallen into a vat of blue paint. They are just a addicts in my eyes. And again not a race but a class.

Dark iron: cool warrior race. With decent amount of lore.

Kul tirans: not a warrior race. Blizz can say what they want but the moment a kul tiran charges in battle he or she will die of a hearth attack. Horse riding is animal creulty. They look ugly. They look like bloathed versions of old saggy female humans. Lore wise....decent. And do not get me started on the crappy racials.

Mechagnomes: just a silly fun race. That can easly be defeated with gaint magnets....Not cool, not a warrior race, not pretty etc etc. Lore wise...non.


And if you look at what the horde got. they are running circles around us. Both racials, classes, lore, coolness/warrior and being pretty.

Man i wish we had gotten races like:
- dreanei ( broken or fallen demon ones)
- vry krul
- druids of the fang ( cross between worgen and night elves)
- real cool kul tirans
- wildhammer dwarfs
- highborne
- high elves
- hell you could even let wrathion make a new dragon race of black dragon flight dragons that all look like his middle eastern look.

[ravenmoon]

Now that is a very interesting idea Ravenmoon! I never thought of that before, and it has a distinctly high elf look and feel.

IT does doesn't it. When i first saw it in cata, i thought this looks very high elven, it has the feel of something that would be high elven. or fit, especially if blizzard wanted to give them a slightly different architectural aesthetic.

Ofc, some people are going to tell me it's not high elven, mysteriously making my feeling transform into calling it high elven. And ofc something I never said or was saying that.. But hey. People ! And issues.

[FlubberPuddy]

ALRIGHT, IN AN ATTEMPT TO BRING THIS AWAY FROM ACADEMIC ESSAY LENGTH PARAGRAPHS OF TEXT

At a base level, what would you @Obelisk Kai and the rest of you fine folk think of Alliance High Elves but with a slimmer version of the human male model for instance, with tattoos, long ears and all that jazz, or a slimmer version of the Night Elf model? That way they are not just Horde Blood Elves but with blue eyes and tattoos.

Would they be different enough to satisfy Alliance High Elf advocates, and different enough for Horde players to not feel that their Blood Elves are diminished?

Personally I'd be ok with it. But that's almost essentially calling for a new model? Which is what I'm sure most High Elf fans would want anyway.

But if it was either your suggestion or none at all, I'd rather have something High Elf available than not at all as it is currently. That's why I'm also okay with Void Elves getting High Elf skin customizations. If it's the choice between nothing at all (like currently) or having Blizzard legitimize High Elves playable on Alliance in some way, I will always rather get something than nothing.

And anyone who replies to this post saying Void Elves are that something can peace right on off, that's obviously not what anyone means at this point and never has. Saying that at this point when High Elves still have a chance at happening is trolling imo.

[MyWholeLifeIsThunder]

Ofc, some people are going to tell me it's not high elven, mysteriously making my feeling transform into calling it high elven. And ofc something I never said or was saying that.. But hey. People ! And issues.

If that was directed at me, I'm just asking you to give some context to what "feels high elven" to you. I'm saying that the Throne of Four Winds has no in universe connection to the high elves, so it just comes across as you liking that aesthetic with no regard for the in universe context.

I'm not trying to be mean about it, I also agree that it looks nice and evokes a high fantasy feeling; I would like if high elves had that aesthetic. My point is that in universe there's no connection so even when I agree it's nice, it comes across as aesthetics for aesthetics sake, without context.

[ravenmoon]

It doesn't scream High Elf because it's not high elf at all... it has no connection to them save for what you favor as an aesthetic. Yeah, it looks "elven" but devoid of WoW's specific context for High Elves, and don't we wan't High Elves because of their specific context? Like IDK, if you really care only about the look I'm gonna sound like a anti helfer and just say "play horde"

woah.. easy there tiger, I didn't say was High elven, besides "scereams" or "feels" is entirely subjective, it could scream orc to you if that's who it made you feel off, although architecturally, colour scheme, etc I'd be very confused.

TO me Throne of Tiedes I the abyssal maw screamed naga, , but naga architecture ended up being a sea cone variant of the night elf architecture we have marble and wood versions.

To me, there is an aesthetic that screams "highborne" at least, and those are the highborne ruins of Aszuna. Which by nature of being highborne structures, ressemble a middle point between kaldorei and thalassian aesthetics.

YEs, that is Highborne architecture, or night elven civilization architecture, whatever you want to call it. Suramar and Zin'Azsahri, Eldre'thaals are all examples of this.

But if you notice they're pretty much the same thing.

Notice how some of the buildings have wooden versions in a slightly simpler format in Val'Sharah among the druid society there. When it's druidic it is wooden and slightly simpler, when it's the other night elves it is marble.

Suramar is what they look like in a pristine sate, with all the arcane energy flowing, bejewelled etc, the ruins are you see are well ruins. Zin'Azshari you can tell is the capital of the architectural scheme, Suramar is a little bit special, Thalyssra did tell it's "the Jewel of the Night elf Empire"

I like the night elf stuff they've done, when I saw Suramar, it was a city that looked like it fit the description in the lore in the books and manuals. They did well, Zin'Azshari also looked the part.

now blood elf/high elf architecture we see in Silvermoon, is also quite nice, it has its own style. I would fully expect high elves to use that style just coloured blue as we see in some of the Northrend and Outland towns that have a mixture. However if they were to switch it up and give them something different, Skywall would be the sort of standard I'd like to see.

As you can see, the lodge structure resembles the kaldorei lodges -including the HE ones used on the Hinterlands and Plaguelands- One could argue that the structures in Quel'danil shouldn't look like kaldorei architecture, rather, more or a middle point, and I think that reskinned Aszunan buildings (more wood textures and less moon imagery) could easily serve to evoke a "throwback" high elven aesthetic.

Otherwsie, IMO it's hard to conceive a modern high elven aesthetic that is not hybridized with human aesthetics (for example, Dalaran)

As said above, I fully expect High elf architecture to be a recolouring of the blood elf one as we've seen, however I wouldn't expect to see it use night elven ones. Blizzard tend to like to keep the two elven races a bit more distinct, though they do have some very intentionally left similar looking structures.

WE see them do the same in Suramar, mirroring what they have done in the lodges by having some structures there also resesmeble the ones the Thalassian elves use.. I think it is very well done by blizzard.. it shows us they are connected despite having a distinct feel and look to each. However do note, that it is the Night elven structures that make it across in the other elf group. We don't see the blood elven ones shared to the night elf.. which makes sense given the timeline.

Thalassians come after the night elves, they would have some night elven influences, but not the other way round, because of the story and the separation, when the exiled Sunstrider highborne become High elves, the kaldorei are in isolation in their forests and cities - the Thalassians then develop, gaining new styles, but would have some reminiscent of the Kaldorei ones replacing traditional moon and star symbology with and other assets like bestiary hippogriffs and Sabers with blood elven versions - I.e. Sun, Phoenix, hawkstriders etc. But players who are very faction minded, are self trained to focus on how they're different rather than alike - this is in part to blame for the special snowflake complex players have regarding elves, such that they expect and want their elves to be the only one of a kind in everything, and if their group has it, then the other shouldn't have it, cos it's mine, MINE !!. ROFL.

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If that was directed at me, I'm just asking you to give some context to what "feels high elven" to you. I'm saying that the Throne of Four Winds has no in universe connection to the high elves, so it just comes across as you liking that aesthetic with no regard for the in universe context.

I'm not trying to be mean about it, I also agree that it looks nice and evokes a high fantasy feeling; I would like if high elves had that aesthetic. My point is that in universe there's no connection so even when I agree it's nice, it comes across as aesthetics for aesthetics sake, without context.

No, it wasn't, I was thinking of the main antagonist on this thread, and some of his friends.

I did respond to you after specifically.

But yes, i know the Throne of four winds has no known connection to the High elves in lore, however that doesn't mean a person can't find the aesthetic personifying what they imagine or feels would fit a high elf very well or the sort of home they could move into if they somehow made it into this plane.. They don't need ot have a connection, even though they might. Mages have been known to go to the elemental plane. It is not too disiimlar from titan architecture, which resembles night elven architcture in some ways, and the connection is as night elves gained their enhanced intelligence, they started disccovering and understanding the titan stuff around. Their language has titan influence in it we are told too

[MyWholeLifeIsThunder]

woah.. easy there tiger, I didn't say was High elven, besides "scereams" or "feels" is entirely subjective, it could scream orc to you if that's who it made you feel off, although architecturally, colour scheme, etc I'd be very confused.

TO me Throne of Tiedes I the abyssal maw screamed naga, , but naga architecture ended up being a sea cone variant of the night elf architecture we have marble and wood versions.

My point here is that you are simply defining aesthetics fitting or not based on your own personal appeal, without in game context. Which actually works if you are bringing in aesthetics from other sources, but given that these are from the game itself, they already have different in universe contexts; hence, why would high elven aesthetics look so much like the throne of four winds? It makes no in universe sense, that's the point.

[LEFT][COLOR=#222222][FONT=Verdana]
YEs, that is Highborne architecture, or night elven civilization architecture, whatever you want to call it. Suramar and Zin'Azsahri, Eldre'thaals are all examples of this.

But if you notice they're pretty much the same thing.

Notice how some of the buildings have wooden versions in a slightly simpler format in Val'Sharah among the druid society there. When it's druidic it is wooden and slightly simpler, when it's the other night elves it is marble.

Suramar is what they look like in a pristine sate, with all the arcane energy flowing, bejewelled etc, the ruins are you see are well ruins. Zin'Azshari you can tell is the capital of the architectural scheme, Suramar is a little bit special, Thalyssra did tell it's "the Jewel of the Night elf Empire"

I like the night elf stuff they've done, when I saw Suramar, it was a city that looked like it fit the description in the lore in the books and manuals. They did well, Zin'Azshari also looked the part.

now blood elf/high elf architecture we see in Silvermoon, is also quite nice, it has its own style. I would fully expect high elves to use that style just coloured blue as we see in some of the Northrend and Outland towns that have a mixture. However if they were to switch it up and give them something different, Skywall would be the sort of standard I'd like to see.



As said above, I fully expect High elf architecture to be a recolouring of the blood elf one as we've seen, however I wouldn't expect to see it use night elven ones. Blizzard tend to like to keep the two elven races a bit more distinct, though they do have some very intentionally left similar looking structures.

WE see them do the same in Suramar, mirroring what they have done in the lodges by having some structures there also resesmeble the ones the Thalassian elves use.. I think it is very well done by blizzard.. it shows us they are connected despite having a distinct feel and look to each. However do note, that it is the Night elven structures that make it across in the other elf group. We don't see the blood elven ones shared to the night elf.. which makes sense given the timeline.

Thalassians come after the night elves, they would have some night elven influences, but not the other way round, because of the story and the separation, when the exiled Sunstrider highborne become High elves, the kaldorei are in isolation in their forests and cities - the Thalassians then develop, gaining new styles, but would have some reminiscent of the Kaldorei ones replacing traditional moon and star symbology with and other assets like bestiary hippogriffs and Sabers with blood elven versions - I.e. Sun, Phoenix, hawkstriders etc. But players who are very faction minded, are self trained to focus on how they're different rather than alike - this is in part to blame for the special snowflake complex players have regarding elves, such that they expect and want their elves to be the only one of a kind in everything, and if their group has it, then the other shouldn't have it, cos it's mine, MINE !!. ROFL.

My point is simple; if they want to give High Elves a distinct aesthetic, choices like a "throwback" to highborne aesthetics in a manner that the result comes across as a midpoint between highborne and modern thalassian -with more wood- could work, as well as a hibridized with human aesthetics, like Dalaran.

For the former, I'm saying it's just easy to take the Aszunan Highborne style and re-texture it.

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No, it wasn't, I was thinking of the main antagonist on this thread, and some of his friends.

I did respond to you after specifically.

But yes, i know the Throne of four winds has no known connection to the High elves in lore, however that doesn't mean a person can't find the aesthetic personifying what they imagine or feels would fit a high elf very well or the sort of home they could move into if they somehow made it into this plane.. They don't need ot have a connection, even though they might. Mages have been known to go to the elemental plane. It is not too disiimlar from titan architecture, which resembles night elven architcture in some ways, and the connection is as night elves gained their enhanced intelligence, they started disccovering and understanding the titan stuff around. Their language has titan influence in it we are told too

Sorry, it just come across as "I like this aesthetic, so I think high elves should live here" disregarding in universe context. Don't see a logical argument for it besides "I like how it looks."

[Traycor]

It doesn't scream High Elf because it's not high elf at all... it has no connection to them save for what you favor as an aesthetic. Yeah, it looks "elven" but devoid of WoW's specific context for High Elves, and don't we wan't High Elves because of their specific context? Like IDK, if you really care only about the look I'm gonna sound like a anti helfer and just say "play horde"

Many models in WoW are reused when an appropriate use comes along. One of the concerns the OP is addressing is the need to find ways to make high elves distinct from blood elves. I think this currently unused area has some great architecture and a great look that would feel high elven. Maybe it could be retextured, but I think it could even work in its current state. This would be perfectly acceptable to me as a form of architecture that fits the high elves, and it would give it a slightly different feel than what blood elves have without just being a simple recolor.

Basically, I think this is a creative solve. A great idea of thinking outside the box.

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I understand, I would prefer a blood elf model with a different posture as well but as a compromise, if it was my suggestion or nothing at all ever, what would your response be then?

These are the type of hypotheticals I don't like to answer. We've been down this road before, and it shifts the debate to human models for high elves. I don't think that's a choice Blizzard would even make. Personally, I think they would either A.) Use blood elf models , B.) Use blood elf models with a new idle animation, or C.) make a new model. Any of those options would have new hair, texture, warpaint, etc...

The "use the human model" argument seems silly and unrealistic to me, especially since void elves already use the blood elf model.

[ravenmoon]

My point here is that you are simply defining aesthetics fitting or not based on your own personal appeal, without in game context. Which actually works if you are bringing in aesthetics from other sources, but given that these are from the game itself, they already have different in universe contexts; hence, why would high elven aesthetics look so much like the throne of four winds? It makes no in universe sense, that's the point.

I'm confused here, what are you trying to say? I shouldn't feel that SKywall fits the sort of place I imagine high elves would live in?


I can explain why I feel this way; It's b/c its gorgeous [subjective - to me], it has the level of detail , colour scheme that fits that race. This is why I feel that way, I'm explaining hey I feel that way, unless you are now telling I shouldn't feel this way.

I feel this would be great for High elves, but I'm not saying this is high elven, just saying it looks like something that would fit right in.

I don't think its wrong to feel this way, I don't think anyone should judge that, what would be incorrect is saying that it is high elven architecture, not saying that it looks like it should be high elven or looks like like something that fits or "SCREAMS" high elf.

I don't think this is about trying to evaluate anothers' feeling

My point is simple; if they want to give High Elves a distinct aesthetic, choices like a "throwback" to highborne aesthetics in a manner that the result comes across as a midpoint between highborne and modern thalassian -with more wood- could work, as well as a hibridized with human aesthetics, like Dalaran.
For the former, I'm saying it's just easy to take the Aszunan Highborne style and re-texture it.

Oh I got that, I was just waffling with additional stuff,. Yes, dalaran would be an option, as would doing something a bit closer to the night elf highborne. My order of preference would be

1. Silvermoon aesthetic - its gorgeous ti was designed for the high elves - I wouldn't want the alliance half the race suddenly "not allowed to have it or build that way because the horde ones have it htat way.. to me that's silly reason. And while I like diversity and variation, so if possible they should give something else, I think it's altogether un-necessary, it's the style of the people, I belong son both blood elf and high elf. Just like how I feel Suramar, Zin'Azshari that's night elf stuff, and it belong on both Nightborne and Night elf.

2. My 2nd choise would be Skywall. Simply because it's breath-taking, has the lofty feel to it, with the colour schemes etc. A ground version is what I had imagined, , don't think high elves should be in the air or in another plane for that matter, even if Dalaran is.

3. Dalaran - It's not as nice as the first 2, but canonically a lot of high elves live there, it's halfway between the high elf and human stuff, Although imo, if hey were to do half elves as a thing, Darlan instead of Stormwind would be perfect for their home. Regardless of the city being neutral or not. I see no reason why an entire city used by both factions has to suddenly go one faction because the main race in it goes to that faction. I t can do, but it doesn't have to stop being what it is about.


4. Some halfway to Highborne architecture - this would be my last choice, because I think the Thalassian and night elves should have the degree of separation that they already have just the way things are, and the current sets have just enough similarity for you to recognise them both as elven albeit different styles of elven, whiles I can easily see some of my NElf fans welcoming this for greater high/night elf relationships. Now if the High elves were to move in with the night elves in a a rebuilt kaldorei city - with the pristine version of this night elf architecture, than fine, that has an appeal to it. Making it the high elf architecture not so much, some fusion between the two like you suggest would be more preferable, but not as preferred to me as option 1. or 2.


These are ofc my opinions and my preferences, quite understandable if you have another, and prefer something else. In the past I would argue that my choice was best, but then I gained a little wisdom and realised, that was only true for me, and that others because they were different would have different preferences and likes.

These days I am not trying to force people to agree with my choices preferences or likes, Id o like sharing them and talking about them, going into detail about why like them so. But I take the same approach to other things. When I realise something, and it comes up in conversation, I like to say, and if I feel people don't get it, I am alwayshappy to explain how or why I got there.

Sorry, it just come across as "I like this aesthetic, so I think high elves should live here" disregarding in universe context. Don't see a logical argument for it besides "I like how it looks."

Many times I'm just giving my opinion on how I feel something should be, not trying to establish lore or dictate to Warcraft that this is how it is. Perhaps my manner is to strong, and mis leadingly gives that impression. I will ponder on these things.

[Ielenia]

Why do they need to please both sides? They did not please the Alliance when they made nightborne Horde, and iirc they even said they weren't trying to please the Alliance and knew they would react negatively.

Bilzzard didn't please the Alliance at all with the first batch of allied races, as the Horde gets two races we spent a good part of an expansion helping and fighting alongside, one of them having heavy ties to the night elves, AND rich lore... while the Alliance got two ass-pulls for allied races.

[matrix123mko]

It doesn't scream High Elf because it's not high elf at all... it has no connection to them save for what you favor as an aesthetic. Yeah, it looks "elven" but devoid of WoW's specific context for High Elves, and don't we wan't High Elves because of their specific context? Like IDK, if you really care only about the look I'm gonna sound like a anti helfer and just say "play horde"

I agree that elemental planes are ridiculous places to inhabit. One could want ogres in Deepholm for some reason.

To me, there is an aesthetic that screams "highborne" at least, and those are the highborne ruins of Aszuna. Which by nature of being highborne structures, ressemble a middle point between kaldorei and thalassian aesthetics.

If I remember it correctly, this is an alpha image. In game it is more destroyed. I wonder if these old, intact buildings are there in the files so they could be used for Quel'thalas revamp.

As you can see, the lodge structure resembles the kaldorei lodges -including the HE ones used on the Hinterlands and Plaguelands- One could argue that the structures in Quel'danil shouldn't look like kaldorei architecture, rather, more or a middle point, and I think that reskinned Aszunan buildings (more wood textures and less moon imagery) could easily serve to evoke a "throwback" high elven aesthetic.

I agree. This could look like that. Just replace the moons with a sun motif. There is one on the roofs of Silvermoon.

Otherwsie, IMO it's hard to conceive a modern high elven aesthetic that is not hybridized with human aesthetics (for example, Dalaran)

It is a nice design idea that Dalaran is derivative of Silvermoon.

Influence, as in social standing. Lor'themar himself was a farstrider, obviously he's not gonna shun the organization itself, the point is that the BE's as a society started to respect blood knights a lot more -like when you /eye the guards- Farstriders where THE military, but with the advent of the BK, now they have to share those duties, and we have seen Liadrin leading the belven troops a lot more than Halduron. There has obviously been a diminishing in power and status on the Farstriders.

As for the presence in military command, I agree that they now share it. However, I wonder where are the magisters in it.

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Lightforged: silly religous fanatics. That are pretty much just dreanei with tattoo's that glow. And not a race but a class. Little lore, and come over as very blind ( to the light) fanatics.

Still look cool and powerful.

Void elves: emo elves that are always very close to fall to the dark side ( void side). That look like smurfs or blood/high elves that fallen into a vat of blue paint. They are just a addicts in my eyes. And again not a race but a class.

I think they have potential to be a cool race but without Umbric. They weren't blinded by Light like that fool Rommath. With their departure, I feel that blood elves lost all their flavour, being human copies. Void elves would be like true blood elves if not for two, terrible flaws: being Alliance and hating Horde; Umbric's silly communism.

Dark iron: cool warrior race. With decent amount of lore.

Spellcaster race. They were explicitly stated to be sorcerer caste of old Khaz Modan. Their lore characters are shadowcasters, elementalists and priests.

Kul tirans: not a warrior race. Blizz can say what they want but the moment a kul tiran charges in battle he or she will die of a hearth attack. Horse riding is animal creulty. They look ugly. They look like bloathed versions of old saggy female humans. Lore wise....decent. And do not get me started on the crappy racials.

They are huge, strong warriors. Being fat doesn't stop their powerful arms and legs from crushing you with power of a wrecking ball.

Mechagnomes: just a silly fun race. That can easly be defeated with gaint magnets....Not cool, not a warrior race, not pretty etc etc. Lore wise...non.

They are cool. The motive of transhumanism is very interesting.

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Bilzzard didn't please the Alliance at all with the first batch of allied races, as the Horde gets two races we spent a good part of an expansion helping and fighting alongside, one of them having heavy ties to the night elves, AND rich lore... while the Alliance got two ass-pulls for allied races.

I am pretty sure people enjoy Dark Iron dwarves and void elves. I see a lot of them in Stormwind.

[Obelisk Kai]

You're essentially arguing "if it isn't in the game right now, it will never be". You're bringing up examples that haven't been asked about nor confirmed to not ever be happening as if that means you have evidence they won't ever happen.

No, that's what you are saying. I am talking about the current phase of character customisation enhancements and which is confirmed to include allied races at a later date. If they change the principles they are clearly using now for another phase, that will be then. But this is now, and it is not a hypothetical what if situation anymore, we have actual datamined options and some developer commentary that allows to determine what the framework they are employing is.

Quite a leap of logic. Especially given that Ion had this to say about Allied Race customizations and then also on Character customizations in general from the interview yesterday:

1) (Allied Races): "We'd like to get back to improving Allied Race customization as well, but that's not coming right at launch of Shadowlands"

2) (Character Customization in general): "Character customization is something we see as an ongoing project. It's never going to be over. We always want to give you more options, more choice, the ability to express yourself through your character in game.

Given point 2 is a given, let's deal with point 1. Somehow you are attempting to argue that I am saying Allied races, and we all know this specifically centres upon Void Elves, are never going to get additional customizations. This has been a recurring theme in your answers to me and it is a classic strawman argument.

Wikipedia's entry on a Strawman argument is that 'A straw man (or strawman) is a form of argument and an informal fallacy based on giving the impression of refuting an opponent's argument, while actually refuting an argument that was not presented by that opponent. One who engages in this fallacy is said to be "attacking a straw man'

I have never said Allied races are not going to get new and expanded customisations. I have never said that Void Elves aren't getting expanded customizations. What I am saying, based on the principles espoused in why blue eyes were denied and the absence of other 'much-requested' yet lore inconsistent features on the core races, that the particular customisation YOU seek, high elf like skins on Void Elves, isn't coming.

So continually going back to 'here are things we don't have right now, so they're never coming' is frankly a terrible argument.

Ion confirms character customization is never going to be over. That means people are allowed to continue asking for the customizations they want as long as they haven't been explicitly ruled out.

Just seems like explicitly ruling out blue eyes on blood elves has set off a response on trying to ensure high elf customization never comes as well. Blizzard has never stated such, the answer has never been an explicit 'no' for High Elves, whether as an Allied Race separate option unto themselves, or through additional options in Void Elves.

Don't really see what you're trying to argue so hard over at this point. The character customization coming in Shadowlands isn't the final pass for all races, and they want to get back to improving Allied Race customizations as well - it just won't come with initial launch of Shadowlands.

It sucks that people that genuinely wanted blue eyes on blood elves didn't get them, but just because that was explicitly ruled out has nothing to do with alliance players requesting for high elf as a playable option.

While not a final pass over the races it's hard to imagine them going through them this thoroughly again. Future enhancements will likely be incremental rather than one giant leap.

However, you still refuse to address the core issue. You retreat to the fact the timeframe for the request could be essentially infinite, or at least until the game shuts down.
And you ignore the actual emerging evidence that is proving you wrong as we speak.

Your argument has been for months that character customization has been solely about meeting player requests. You have used this to argue that lore and other considerations, such as faction diversity, no longer matter.

Yet the options found so far have not backed you up. No Eredar skins. No Gilgoblin skins. No Nathanos like Undead. No Undead Elf skins. No San'layn. No Frostborn Dwarves. All options based on the same principle you've argued, that lore doesn't matter and that a racial option can be a vector for anything people fancy, all that matters is the demand.

Yet the options that have been found have one thing in common. They are all consistent with the lore and origins of the races as they stand. And blue eyes for blood elves, a quite popular request, was refused on the grounds you have been content to ignore so far, lore.

If all the other options I've listed aren't there right now for the core races, the races whose origins are in many cases quite generic and malleable, then that says there is in fact a principle at work here. Your claim that seemingly anything goes falters as the datamining continues. There are in fact limits. And popularity has no bearing on their decision making either. That limit is that the options they offer have to be consistent with the actual race.

And where you fall down completely is where you are completely incapable of offering an explanation as to why this principle, established clearly with the rejection of Blood Elf blue eyes and demonstrable through the absence of numerous other 'popular' yet lore inconsistent requests, will not apply to Void Elves getting lore inconsistent high elf skins.

What makes you more deserving than the San'layn fan?
What makes your case better than the Eredar fan?
Why should the lore be bent for you and not for those who wished to have a Frostborn Dwarf skin?
Why should the lore be rewritten for you and not for those who wanted blue eyes on Blood Elves?

Why are all those roleplayers destined to be thwarted in Shadowlands but you believe Void Elves alone will get the single most controversial customisation there is?

Your arguments really boil down to that you don't care about the other options, but you want those high elf skin tones on Void Elves, and so that's why you believe the logic applying to every other request does not apply to your own. Because you want it.

Forgive me but I don't think that is actually a factor in their decision making. We have seen what they are adding and what they are not and they have explained why some options have been ruled out. On the principles established, what you want simply won't happen during their upcoming customisation pass.

Who knows, maybe they'll change those principles at some point in the future. Doubtful they'd try and do more for the Allied races in the current phase though, whose lore origins are even more tightly scripted than the core races and thus provide a lot less room for experimentation.

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But if it was either your suggestion or none at all, I'd rather have something High Elf available than not at all as it is currently. That's why I'm also okay with Void Elves getting High Elf skin customizations. If it's the choice between nothing at all (like currently) or having Blizzard legitimize High Elves playable on Alliance in some way, I will always rather get something than nothing.

And anyone who replies to this post saying Void Elves are that something can peace right on off, that's obviously not what anyone means at this point and never has. Saying that at this point when High Elves still have a chance at happening is trolling imo.

While it may not be what you wanted, it was what you got. Your frustration you didn't get everything you wanted doesn't necessarily translate into them deciding to give you everything you want as a result. You said it yourself, not everyone can be happy.

If you don't accept the proffered compromise option that is on you, you'll have to live with the disappointment. Same as the people who haven't gotten San'layn or Eredar or any of the other options out there they'd like to play as but which Blizzard decided against.

Your circumstances aren't special. Your anguish is not unique. That is not to diminish those feelings, but to point out plenty of others are in the same boat and the same expectation is made of them, to live with it and enjoy the game the best they can, and they must live with it without the compromise option alliance elf fans received.

[Varodoc]

No, that's what you are saying. I am talking about the current phase of character customisation enhancements and which is confirmed to include allied races at a later date. If they change the principles they are clearly using now for another phase, that will be then. But this is now, and it is not a hypothetical what if situation anymore, we have actual datamined options and some developer commentary that allows to determine what the framework they are employing is.



Given point 2 is a given, let's deal with point 1. Somehow you are attempting to argue that I am saying Allied races, and we all know this specifically centres upon Void Elves, are never going to get additional customizations. This has been a recurring theme in your answers to me and it is a classic strawman argument.

Wikipedia's entry on a Strawman argument is that 'A straw man (or strawman) is a form of argument and an informal fallacy based on giving the impression of refuting an opponent's argument, while actually refuting an argument that was not presented by that opponent. One who engages in this fallacy is said to be "attacking a straw man'

I have never said Allied races are not going to get new and expanded customisations. I have never said that Void Elves aren't getting expanded customizations. What I am saying, based on the principles espoused in why blue eyes were denied and the absence of other 'much-requested' yet lore inconsistent features on the core races, that the particular customisation YOU seek, high elf like skins on Void Elves, isn't coming.



While not a final pass over the races it's hard to imagine them going through them this thoroughly again. Future enhancements will likely be incremental rather than one giant leap.

However, you still refuse to address the core issue. You retreat to the fact the timeframe for the request could be essentially infinite, or at least until the game shuts down.
And you ignore the actual emerging evidence that is proving you wrong as we speak.

Your argument has been for months that character customization has been solely about meeting player requests. You have used this to argue that lore and other considerations, such as faction diversity, no longer matter.

Yet the options found so far have not backed you up. No Eredar skins. No Gilgoblin skins. No Nathanos like Undead. No Undead Elf skins. No San'layn. No Frostborn Dwarves. All options based on the same principle you've argued, that lore doesn't matter and that a racial option can be a vector for anything people fancy, all that matters is the demand.

Yet the options that have been found have one thing in common. They are all consistent with the lore and origins of the races as they stand. And blue eyes for blood elves, a quite popular request, was refused on the grounds you have been content to ignore so far, lore.

If all the other options I've listed aren't there right now for the core races, the races whose origins are in many cases quite generic and malleable, then that says there is in fact a principle at work here. Your claim that seemingly anything goes falters as the datamining continues. There are in fact limits. And popularity has no bearing on their decision making either. That limit is that the options they offer have to be consistent with the actual race.

And where you fall down completely is where you are completely incapable of offering an explanation as to why this principle, established clearly with the rejection of Blood Elf blue eyes and demonstrable through the absence of numerous other 'popular' yet lore inconsistent requests, will not apply to Void Elves getting lore inconsistent high elf skins.

What makes you more deserving than the San'layn fan?
What makes your case better than the Eredar fan?
Why should the lore be bent for you and not for those who wished to have a Frostborn Dwarf skin?
Why should the lore be rewritten for you and not for those who wanted blue eyes on Blood Elves?

Why are all those roleplayers destined to be thwarted in Shadowlands but you believe Void Elves alone will get the single most controversial customisation there is?

Your arguments really boil down to that you don't care about the other options, but you want those high elf skin tones on Void Elves, and so that's why you believe the logic applying to every other request does not apply to your own. Because you want it.

Forgive me but I don't think that is actually a factor in their decision making. We have seen what they are adding and what they are not and they have explained why some options have been ruled out. On the principles established, what you want simply won't happen during their upcoming customisation pass.

Who knows, maybe they'll change those principles at some point in the future. Doubtful they'd try and do more for the Allied races in the current phase though, whose lore origins are even more tightly scripted than the core races and thus provide a lot less room for experimentation.

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While it may not be what you wanted, it was what you got. Your frustration you didn't get everything you wanted doesn't necessarily translate into them deciding to give you everything you want as a result. You said it yourself, not everyone can be happy.

If you don't accept the proffered compromise option that is on you, you'll have to live with the disappointment. Same as the people who haven't gotten San'layn or Eredar or any of the other options out there they'd like to play as but which Blizzard decided against.

Your circumstances aren't special. Your anguish is not unique. That is not to diminish those feelings, but to point out plenty of others are in the same boat and the same expectation is made of them, to live with it and enjoy the game the best they can, and they must live with it without the compromise option alliance elf fans received.

His anguish is not special, his suffering is not unique, but this is the high elf megathread, so he's talking about high elves. If you want to lament the absence of playable eredar of ice dwarves, go make your own megathread about those.

[Obelisk Kai]

His anguish is not special, his suffering is not unique, but this is the high elf megathread, so he's talking about high elves. If you want to lament the absence of playable eredar of ice dwarves, go make your own megathread about those.

And a second strawman appears. I never expected those options, nor do I desire them, but the principle that has seen them absent from the datamined options applies to high elf like skins on Void Elves too. If those options aren't available for reasons of lore, if they didn't bother to take on board any 'suggestions/fanfiction' the people who want those options have put forth to facilitate those options, then it's very likely Void Elves are still going to be Void Elves at the end of all this.

[Varodoc]

And a second strawman appears. I never expected those options, nor do I desire them, but the principle that has seen them absent from the datamined options applies to high elf like skins on Void Elves too. If those options aren't available for reasons of lore, if they didn't bother to take on board any 'suggestions/fanfiction' the people who want those options have put forth to facilitate those options, then it's very likely Void Elves are still going to be Void Elves at the end of all this.

But high elf options for void elves aren't absent for reasons of lore? Do you not understand that Blizzard can add them in the future?

[Obelisk Kai]

More like not addressing the plot thread let hanging by the existence of the Silver Covenant was a huge mistake. Which I agree, it was a huge mistake.

If high elves were not going to be in the cards, the smart thing to do would have been to completely wipe out the high elves at some point during Legion, or make every high elf on Azeroth turn into a void elf. And I don't mean during the Allied Race quest. I mean during the actual narrative of Legion, on Argus.

I am hopeful for new Void Elf lore in the coming Shadows Rising novel which does feature Alleria as a major character. Explicit confirmation that void elves can turn other elves into Void Elves would be welcome, an upgrade over it's implicit status. That way those who argue their desire is to play an elf who has always been loyal to the Alliance can do that without fear of being contradiction.

However, frank disclosure, I fully expect to see Silver Covenant NPCs in the pre-patch. Ion's comments in the interview about the pre-patch event strongly suggest it is being limited to Northrend. I imagine it will be something akin to a siege of Icecrown, where we have to retake each 'gate' on the way to the citadel from the rampaging undead. The Argent Tournament in the north is the logical place to use a staging ground during this siege and there are Silver Covenant NPCs there. But who knows what their fate will be when everything goes wrong once we reach the Citadel.

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But high elf options for void elves aren't absent for reasons of lore? Do you not understand that Blizzard can add them in the future?

Well Blizzard can do anything it wants in future, but on the evidence we have so far from the datamining they aren't keen to 'colour outside the lines' of the existing races, rather they are intent on filling them in.

And 'high elf options' (shorthand for peach skin tones) are absent for reasons of lore. They got nuked with void energies. That was the point. A Blood Elf Shadow Priest in void form isn't a Void Elf, they are still a Blood Elf, merely one who uses shadow magic. A Void Elf has been transformed by the void and has become it's own thing.

[Varodoc]

I am hopeful for new Void Elf lore in the coming Shadows Rising novel which does feature Alleria as a major character. Explicit confirmation that void elves can turn other elves into Void Elves would be welcome, an upgrade over it's implicit status. That way those who argue their desire is to play an elf who has always been loyal to the Alliance can do that without fear of being contradiction.

However, frank disclosure, I fully expect to see Silver Covenant NPCs in the pre-patch. Ion's comments in the interview about the pre-patch event strongly suggest it is being limited to Northrend. I imagine it will be something akin to a siege of Icecrown, where we have to retake each 'gate' on the way to the citadel from the rampaging undead. The Argent Tournament in the north is the logical place to use a staging ground during this siege and there are Silver Covenant NPCs there. But who knows what their fate will be when everything goes wrong once we reach the Citadel.

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Well Blizzard can do anything it wants in future, but on the evidence we have so far from the datamining they aren't keen to 'colour outside the lines' of the existing races, rather they are intent on filling them in.

And 'high elf options' (shorthand for peach skin tones) are absent for reasons of lore. They got nuked with void energies. That was the point. A Blood Elf Shadow Priest in void form isn't a Void Elf, they are still a Blood Elf, merely one who uses shadow magic. A Void Elf has been transformed by the void and has become it's own thing.

Alleria got nuked by void energy and she uses her high elf form 99% of the times.

And I know what you are going to say. AlLeRiA hAd A DiFfErEnT tRaNsForMaTiOn PrOcEsS.

Plenty of people have already given you solid lore explanations for extending that option to normal void elves.

[Obelisk Kai]

ALRIGHT, IN AN ATTEMPT TO BRING THIS AWAY FROM ACADEMIC ESSAY LENGTH PARAGRAPHS OF TEXT

At a base level, what would you @Obelisk Kai and the rest of you fine folk think of Alliance High Elves but with a slimmer version of the human male model for instance, with tattoos, long ears and all that jazz, or a slimmer version of the Night Elf model? That way they are not just Horde Blood Elves but with blue eyes and tattoos.

Would they be different enough to satisfy Alliance High Elf advocates, and different enough for Horde players to not feel that their Blood Elves are diminished?

I am afraid not. This is not a question of model. Were it a question of model this would have been over with Void Elves (it almost certainly is over with Void Elves anyway but the argument goes on even if the verdict has been reached).

Void Elves were the compromise. The model was shared and it was a thalassian elf, rather than some new race using a Blood Elf base. The compromise was that the theme and aesthetic was removed from the Void Elf, creating a unique variant. The theme and aesthetic being of the traditional high elf, which is what a Blood Elf is.

Given a compromise has already been implemented, I see little need to compromise again.

[Varodoc]

Giving void elves pink skin tones is not a compromise. It's allowing void elves to look like their leader. No different from the Forsaken players who want undead elves like Sylvanas, or the Troll players who want beard like Vol'jin, or the Worgen players who want and actually got white fur like Greymane.