1. #16181
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    Quote Originally Posted by RangerDaz View Post
    Just saw this one on twitter... what a nice experiment, even replacing the tentacles



    And this one as well

    The first pic is what my true desires are

    But the 2nd pic is what I'd compromise with.

    Honestly though the first pic shows just how different a High Elf is from a Void Elf. And it's a look you wouldn't see on Blood Elves! So I wonder if in the end they would just make High Elves a separate option.

    With the character creation revamp they've allowed themselves a wide berth of playable options, and I don't think majority of Alliance fans will be disappointed to get races they're familiar with. A lot of the complaints from Allied Races on Alliance comes from them being completely new races with no familiarity among the Alliance.

    Blizzard has catered to 'new player' races already. It's time for 'old favorites' ! imo

  2. #16182
    Legendary! Obelisk Kai's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by RangerDaz View Post
    It is not unfair to horde for alliance to get high elves, you still have silvermoon, the sunwell and the rest of Quelthalas

    And by the way:
    Given its a duplicate of the Horde's most popular race, yep, it is. If you want to play a traditional style high elf, that is the Blood Elves.



    Quote Originally Posted by RangerDaz View Post
    You need to update your signature
    That would be misquoting him. The Horde is still the closest to that ideal.

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    Quote Originally Posted by RangerDaz View Post
    Just saw this one on twitter... what a nice experiment, even replacing the tentacles



    And this one as well

    Sorry but these are absurd. All traces of being a void elf has been obliterated and all differentiation between them and blood elves lost. That was, after all, the entire point of creating Void Elves in the first place.

    I get you are happy they confirmed blue eyes aren't going to Blood Elves, but that still doesn't excuse the wilful inability to see how the wider principle applies. If blue eyes for Blood Elves violates lore, then human range skin tones on Void Elves fails on the same principle. Doubly so given that the purple skins are why they made Void Elves in the first place.

    The only argument put forward as to why these skin tones WOULDN'T fail the principles established by the rejection of blue eyes is that some people REALLY didn't want blue eyes, but those same people REALLY want these skin tones on Void Elves, so clearly these skin tones on Void Elves aren't going to fail as blue eyes did.

    That isn't how things work.

  3. #16183
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    Quote Originally Posted by Obelisk Kai View Post
    That would be misquoting him. The Horde is still the closest to that ideal.
    It's an incorrect statement now. You cannot play a 'blue eyed elf' on the Horde. The Horde can't be waiting for you for that.

    But it doesn't mean you have to change it, keeping an incorrect statement as a signature isn't against the rules.

  4. #16184
    Legendary! Obelisk Kai's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Pennem View Post
    It's an incorrect statement now. You cannot play a 'blue eyed elf' on the Horde. The Horde can't be waiting for you for that.

    But it doesn't mean you have to change it, keeping an incorrect statement as a signature isn't against the rules.
    Given it's a verbatim comment from him, were I change it some other pedant would accuse me of misquoting him.

  5. #16185
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    Quote Originally Posted by Obelisk Kai View Post
    Given it's a verbatim comment from him, were I change it some other pedant would accuse me of misquoting him.
    It was pedantry to quote in the first place so... but you do you!

  6. #16186
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    Quote Originally Posted by Pennem View Post
    It was pedantry to quote in the first place so... but you do you!
    Nope, a simple restatement of the fact that the traditional high elf option is present on the Horde. Which the absence of blue eyes does not invalidate. Even in the incredibly unlikely event void elves got skin tones as depicted above, that would still be a Void Elf, not a high elf.

  7. #16187
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    Quote Originally Posted by Obelisk Kai View Post
    but that still doesn't excuse the willful inability to see how the wider principle applies..
    I said this to someone else, but this leap of logic here is what led others to declare blue eyes for blood elves (and the many colors of the rainbow) should be afforded to them based on developer commentary of fel eyes for blood elves.

    I think it's clear that when dev commentary is explicit it can only be applied to the specific context in which it was stated. In this case, no blue eyes for blood elves. As Ion explained, it doesn't make sense for how they evolved.

    People have already gave suggestions on how, if it was decided High Elf tones come to VE customization, those can be implemented. Alleria looking like a regular High Elf leaves the possibility, since VE have no entrenched history of established lore. It's easy to come up with them refining the process to be given those similar looks as Alleria.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Obelisk Kai View Post
    Even in the incredibly unlikely event void elves got skin tones as depicted above, that would still be a Void Elf, not a high elf.
    A point I'm sure not many care seeing as the overall community hasn't been making a stink about: 1) Wildhammer Dwarves 2) Different troll tribes shoehorned into Darkspear 3) Dark skin Blood Elves.

    That a few are vocal about their disagreement of it doesn't appear to bother the majority, least of all Blizzard.

  8. #16188
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    Quote Originally Posted by Pennem View Post
    I said this to someone else, but this leap of logic here is what led others to declare blue eyes for blood elves (and the many colors of the rainbow) should be afforded to them based on developer commentary of fel eyes for blood elves.

    I think it's clear that when dev commentary is explicit it can only be applied to the specific context in which it was stated. In this case, no blue eyes for blood elves. As Ion explained, it doesn't make sense for how they evolved.

    People have already gave suggestions on how, if it was decided High Elf tones come to VE customization, those can be implemented. Alleria looking like a regular High Elf leaves the possibility, since VE have no entrenched history of established lore. It's easy to come up with them refining the process to be given those similar looks as Alleria.
    You know what else is missing?

    San'layn skins for Blood Elves.

    Undead skins for Blood Elves.

    Undead skins for Night Elves.

    Frostborn skins for Dwarves.

    Eredar skins on Draenei

    Gilgoblin skins for Goblins.

    Everywhere you look, the same principle reinforced again and again. That if something doesn't match the lore of the race, then they don't change the lore to accommodate it and they don't write new lore, they just don't do it.

    That 'people have given suggestions' doesn't matter. That's new lore. They won't do it. Look at everything other people are suggesting and which they aren't getting because they don't make sense on the race.

    As endlessly discussed Alleria is unique due to the circumstances of her transformation. Nathanos Blightcaller also has a unique form compared to other Undead, I don't see them getting a Nathanos Blightcaller style option despite it being asked for, because like Alleria his transformation was the by-product of a highly specific, unique ritual. And just as he required a spare Val'kyr, Alleria needed a dark Naaru.

    Void Elves exist as an allied race because they are different from Blood Elves. Your suggestions are to obliterate the differences by writing new lore to justify it and none of the other options on any of the other races people have asked for have to come to pass. The real leap of logic is to imagine that your request alone will be granted merely because you really want it despite every other request in the same vein not happening.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Pennem View Post
    A point I'm sure not many care seeing as the overall community hasn't been making a stink about: 1) Wildhammer Dwarves 2) Different troll tribes shoehorned into Darkspear 3) Dark skin Blood Elves.

    That a few are vocal about their disagreement of it doesn't appear to bother the majority, least of all Blizzard.
    Wildhammer Dwarves are biologically identical to Bronzebeard Dwarves.

    Other Troll tribes are biologically identical to the Darkspear (and the one that isn't is an Allied race).

    Dark skins on Blood Elves are part of a human skin tone range which high elves share in (although you wouldn't know it from those mock ups, I doubt those 'void elves' have ever been outside to even see a shadow let alone wield the powers of darkness).

    Besides, as demonstrated last night, popularity or unpopularity of a request is meaningless if it crosses lore. If it doesn't make sense, it doesn't happen.
    Last edited by Obelisk Kai; 2020-04-29 at 03:24 PM.

  9. #16189
    Quote Originally Posted by Pennem View Post
    A point I'm sure not many care seeing as the overall community hasn't been making a stink about: 1) Wildhammer Dwarves 2) Different troll tribes shoehorned into Darkspear 3) Dark skin Blood Elves.

    That a few are vocal about their disagreement of it doesn't appear to bother the majority, least of all Blizzard.
    A point that's been stressed to no end, but @Obelisk Kai keeps barking up the wrong trees preaching to all who will listen even if at this point, no one cares anymore. We're at 831 pages of the same regurgitated arguments that don't change. Blood Elves not receiving blue eyes is a good "aha" moment in itself. It sets up precedent for Void Elf customization options in the future. That in itself is independent of throwing up the same argument you have been for hundreds of pages. Those of us who are happy we might end up getting the desired appearance for the High Elf fantasy should be satisfied in the direction this is all heading. I don't care if it's called a Void Elf, a Dark Elf, a Pit Elf, or a Purple Rain Elf. If it can be role-played and looks like the desired object of the RP fantasy, that's all that matters to me and most sensible players.

  10. #16190
    Quote Originally Posted by RangerDaz View Post
    Just saw this one on twitter... what a nice experiment, even replacing the tentacles



    And this one as well

    For years Forsaken players have asked for the option to look like Sylvanas Windrunner, an undead high elf.

    I don't see the problem with void elf players asking to look like Alleria Windrunner, a void elf who can revert to her high elf form.

    I'd love something like that for my void elf. The ability to show your tentacle while in high elf form would also be pretty cool. A little freaky perhaps, but cool nonetheless.

  11. #16191
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    Quote Originally Posted by Obelisk Kai View Post
    You know what else is missing?

    San'layn skins for Blood Elves.

    Undead skins for Blood Elves.

    Undead skins for Night Elves.

    Frostborn skins for Dwarves.

    Eredar skins on Draenei

    Gilgoblin skins for Goblins.

    Everywhere you look, the same principle reinforced again and again. That if something doesn't match the lore of the race, then they don't change the lore to accommodate it and they don't write new lore, they just don't do it.

    That 'people have given suggestions' doesn't matter. That's new lore. They won't do it. Look at everything other people are suggesting and which they aren't getting because they don't make sense on the race.

    As endlessly discussed Alleria is unique due to the circumstances of her transformation. Nathanos Blightcaller also has a unique form compared to other Undead, I don't see them getting a Nathanos Blightcaller style option despite it being asked for, because like Alleria his transformation was the by-product of a highly specific, unique ritual. And just as he required a spare Val'kyr, Alleria needed a dark Naaru.

    Void Elves exist as an allied race because they are different from Blood Elves. Your suggestions are to obliterate the differences by writing new lore to justify it and none of the other options on any of the other races people have asked for have to come to pass. The real leap of logic is to imagine that your request alone will be granted merely because you really want it despite every other request in the same vein not happening.

    Besides, as demonstrated last night, popularity or unpopularity of a request is meaningless if it crosses lore. If it doesn't make sense, it doesn't happen.
    You're essentially arguing "if it isn't in the game right now, it will never be". You're bringing up examples that haven't been asked about nor confirmed to not ever be happening as if that means you have evidence they won't ever happen.

    Quite a leap of logic. Especially given that Ion had this to say about Allied Race customizations and then also on Character customizations in general from the interview yesterday:

    1) (Allied Races): "We'd like to get back to improving Allied Race customization as well, but that's not coming right at launch of Shadowlands"

    2) (Character Customization in general): "Character customization is something we see as an ongoing project. It's never going to be over. We always want to give you more options, more choice, the ability to express yourself through your character in game.

    So continually going back to 'here are things we don't have right now, so they're never coming' is frankly a terrible argument.

    Ion confirms character customization is never going to be over. That means people are allowed to continue asking for the customizations they want as long as they haven't been explicitly ruled out.

    Just seems like explicitly ruling out blue eyes on blood elves has set off a response on trying to ensure high elf customization never comes as well. Blizzard has never stated such, the answer has never been an explicit 'no' for High Elves, whether as an Allied Race separate option unto themselves, or through additional options in Void Elves.

    Don't really see what you're trying to argue so hard over at this point. The character customization coming in Shadowlands isn't the final pass for all races, and they want to get back to improving Allied Race customizations as well - it just won't come with initial launch of Shadowlands.

    It sucks that people that genuinely wanted blue eyes on blood elves didn't get them, but just because that was explicitly ruled out has nothing to do with alliance players requesting for high elf as a playable option.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Kyphael View Post
    A point that's been stressed to no end, but @Obelisk Kai keeps barking up the wrong trees preaching to all who will listen even if at this point, no one cares anymore. We're at 831 pages of the same regurgitated arguments that don't change. Blood Elves not receiving blue eyes is a good "aha" moment in itself. It sets up precedent for Void Elf customization options in the future. That in itself is independent of throwing up the same argument you have been for hundreds of pages. Those of us who are happy we might end up getting the desired appearance for the High Elf fantasy should be satisfied in the direction this is all heading. I don't care if it's called a Void Elf, a Dark Elf, a Pit Elf, or a Purple Rain Elf. If it can be role-played and looks like the desired object of the RP fantasy, that's all that matters to me and most sensible players.
    You're right dude and I feel the same way. If I can roleplay the option, if I can essentially get that high elf look because visual language matters greatly and it's something Blizzard agrees with as well, then I'll be content.

  12. #16192
    Quote Originally Posted by Obelisk Kai View Post
    So your argument as to why they aren't nearly dead/nearly extinct is that if they wish Blizzard can retcon more into existence.
    More like not addressing the plot thread let hanging by the existence of the Silver Covenant was a huge mistake. Which I agree, it was a huge mistake.

    If high elves were not going to be in the cards, the smart thing to do would have been to completely wipe out the high elves at some point during Legion, or make every high elf on Azeroth turn into a void elf. And I don't mean during the Allied Race quest. I mean during the actual narrative of Legion, on Argus.

  13. #16193
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    Quote Originally Posted by MoroboshiY View Post
    More like not addressing the plot thread let hanging by the existence of the Silver Covenant was a huge mistake. Which I agree, it was a huge mistake.

    If high elves were not going to be in the cards, the smart thing to do would have been to completely wipe out the high elves at some point during Legion, or make every high elf on Azeroth turn into a void elf. And I don't mean during the Allied Race quest. I mean during the actual narrative of Legion, on Argus.
    Yup, and even during BFA they added a few more new High Elf NPCs. One even on an Island expedition team where undoubtedly many Horde players faced him (Seraphi).

    If they wanted to sweep High Elves under the rug you don't do that lol. It just reinforces how iconic High Elves are to Alliance. Sure they don't have much story right now in BFA, but neither did pandas and Pandaria until Blizzard decided to go there for MoP.

  14. #16194
    Went to the trouble of recovering my old MMO-Champion account just to express my amusement at the absolute cope of Obelisk Kai.

    Ion has clearly softened his stance somewhat on High Elves, but not to worry. In the not unlikely event that they are added to the Alliance as a future Allied Race, the Horde and the Alliance will be there waiting for you if you want to play one

  15. #16195
    These hairstyle styles are perfect for the high elves, I love it.




  16. #16196
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    Quote Originally Posted by Austilias View Post
    Went to the trouble of recovering my old MMO-Champion account just to express my amusement at the absolute cope of Obelisk Kai.

    Ion has clearly softened his stance somewhat on High Elves, but not to worry. In the not unlikely event that they are added to the Alliance as a future Allied Race, the Horde and the Alliance will be there waiting for you if you want to play one
    Lol, also yeah it'll be nice to see where one's real faction loyalty lies instead of being egged by what races a faction has. True faction identity can happen then

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by Frenchvince View Post
    These hairstyle styles are perfect for the high elves, I love it.
    Those look really gorgeous *_* especially the bottom one! The skin tone, the markings, the gradient hair :O 'PERFECTION'

  17. #16197
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    Quote Originally Posted by Obelisk Kai View Post
    You are completely incapable of squaring the circle on this. You wish to preserve your indignation at void elves whilst insisting them dressed up violates the faction lines.
    Because they do. A void elf in full armor is indistinguishable from a blood elf in the same full armor, out in the world. Your problem with this fact is that you think I care about "faction identity" the way you do. I don't.

    This "faction boundary" is 100% a "you" thing. "Faction identity" matters to you? Fine! Give the high elves' player model enough differentiation. Different curved ears and new hair colors/styles and/or tattoos would be more than enough, since that is the physical differentiation between night elves and nightborne.

    I say again, if you believe that a Void Elf in armor is so indistinguishable from a high elf that it damages the faction identity, then you have a high elf solution in your hands. If a Void Elf is not acceptable to you AS a high elf, then the faction boundary is not broken at all.
    And I'll say it again: all that is complete drivel.

    Why? Because I don't hold this "faction boundary" thing as highly as you do. Pandaren, void elves and nightborne, in my opinion, have already irreparably damaged this "faction barrier" you hold in such high regard.

    You can't have it both ways.
    The only reason you say that, is because you're ascribing motives and desires on me that are not my own.
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  18. #16198
    Quote Originally Posted by Pennem View Post

    Those look really gorgeous *_* especially the bottom one! The skin tone, the markings, the gradient hair :O 'PERFECTION'

    We move away from the metrosexual blood elf for the more natural side of the high elves !

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    High Elf Farstrider Racial Armor <3







  19. #16199
    ^The third one is like a genderbent Alleria. Cool.

  20. #16200
    While I'm not quite yet ready to believe that Ion's/The Dev Team's position on playable Alliance High Elves has "softened", it will be interesting to see if there are any actual developments for Alliance High Elves in Shadowlands (beyond just basic npc cosmetic updates). If there's no story elements touching specifically on the Alliance allied High Elves, I won't get my hopes up. But if there's story there... and even moreso if there's actual model work done (say a new or modified model for High Elf npcs or a new Half-Elf model for Arator), then I might begin to believe the Devs could actually be considering it.
    Last edited by Kyriani; 2020-04-29 at 05:18 PM.

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