Official High Elf Discussion Megathread

[FlubberPuddy]

Honestly people like Obelisk Kai should just be muted. Mod was clear that this is supposed to be a threat were we lay out ideas on how high elves could be introduced into the game, NOT a thread to bash helfers -- which is what Obelisk Kai has been doing nonstop since the beginning.

Ignoring would be the most sensible option yes. Sometimes there's just statements made that are easy to point out as weak/obtuse, so pointing those out helps show the frank bias as well.

But given that people who are neutral have come into this thread to celebrate the news that Ion said because it disappointed certain users, kind of hits the point home about how certain posters have portrayed themselves.

[ThatsOurEric]

Point 3 is such a stupid argument, I swear. Why dont you people understand that elves are super popular, so Blizzard would make ton of cash. People dont want to play ugly cows or dumb ogres, they want to play elves. That's why we have 4 elven variations as of now.

There are what, 3 warring factions in Warhammer, which Blizzard obviously took a shit ton of inspiration from for Warcraft.

City Elves, Evil Elves, and Forest Elves. Night Elves are your forest elves, "evil" elves are your Blood Elves, and "City" elves
are your Nightborne. Void Elves were the bone thrown to Alliance because...reasons I guess.

In a lot of fiction you have 2 warring elf factions. That's why they went with it in Warcraft, Night Elves vs. Blood Elves.
Once they added more, they diluted that dynamic. There's only one race that's supposed to be super widespread and
varied, and that's the Trolls.

Either way, "because elves are popular" is an even more moronic "counter" argument.

Honestly people like Obelisk Kai should just be muted. Mod was clear that this is supposed to be a threat were we lay out ideas on how high elves could be introduced into the game, NOT a thread to bash helfers -- which is what Obelisk Kai has been doing nonstop since the beginning.

In other words, you want a safe space where no one can disagree or say anything that you don't like.

That's honestly, really pathetic.

[LeoOtrue]

Why does it always take you so many words to reveal that you don’t know anything about Warcraft’s character or brand? High Elves are, always have been, and always will be at the core of Warcraft’s Alliance.

[Varodoc]

There are what, 3 warring factions in Warhammer, which Blizzard obviously took a shit ton of inspiration from for Warcraft.

City Elves, Evil Elves, and Forest Elves. Night Elves are your forest elves, "evil" elves are your Blood Elves, and "City" elves
are your Nightborne. Void Elves were the bone thrown to Alliance because...reasons I guess.

In a lot of fiction you have 2 warring elf factions. That's why they went with it in Warcraft, Night Elves vs. Blood Elves.
Once they added more, they diluted that dynamic. There's only one race that's supposed to be super widespread and
varied, and that's the Trolls.

Either way, "because elves are popular" is an even more moronic "counter" argument.



In other words, you want a safe space where no one can disagree or say anything that you don't like.

That's honestly, really pathetic.

It's not that I want an echo chamber, it's that mod was clear that this is a thread for suggestions and ideas, not putting down helfers. You can even find that warning on the OP. I dont make the rules.

Also, elves are popular, so more elven customizations are appreciated.

[Katchii]

I am delighted that the 2 options (blue eyes and farstrider tattoo) which defines the high-elf side of Alleria are kept in the alliance.

A new generation of void elf will be recruited, with a safer method and master this time.

Farstriders were a Thalassian thing WAY before the divide between the "High Elves" and "Blood Elves."

Saying it's "kept in the Alliance" is a little ridiculous when the vast majority of the race that still exists, that still have Farstriders, is part of the Horde.

[ThatsOurEric]

It's not that I want an echo chamber, it's that mod was clear that this is a thread for suggestions and ideas, not putting down helfers.
You can even find that warning on the OP. I dont make the rules.

So then where is the line drawn from "putting down" someone's idea? Blatantly saying, "that idea is fucking stupid and
so are you", sure, that is absolutely unwarranted. Does saying, "No X doesn't work because of X" count as well? Then
at which point can you disagree?

Also, elves are popular, so more elven customizations are appreciated.

That does not have to extend to more races. They can add a ton of new customizations to existing ones, which
they are doing (FINALLY) after so many years. Some of which is skin color and some physical features, which
in all honesty, should've applied to a few of the Allied Races, which are little more than external customizations
to existing races (looking at you High Mountain Tauren).

[Uthan]

Farstriders were a Thalassian thing WAY before the divide between the "High Elves" and "Blood Elves."

Saying it's "kept in the Alliance" is a little ridiculous when the vast majority of the race that still exists, that still have Farstriders, is part of the Horde.

Has it ever been confirmed lorewise that the tattoos are even an established farstrider thing, rather than just something Alleria and a few others used during the second war?

Edit: Regardless the obvious solution if tattoos are ever added is to give Belfs the red ones and Helfs the blue ones.

[Ielenia]

Asking for blue eyes on Blood Elves was a reasonable request.

It's only a "reasonable request" if you don't care for the lore, or "faction identity/lines".

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But there were signs of Nightborne and Highmountain Tauren. The Allied race system was being seeded before our eyes. Besides, that was the seeding phase. The end of Legion was the implementation phase.

Hindsight is 20-20. You didn't know that the Highmountain tauren and the nightborne were anything other than two new reputations we had to work through to get rep rewards.

They were, at the time, no different whatsoever than the frostborn dwarves of Storm Peaks, or the wildhammer dwarves and dragonmaw orcs of Twilight Highlands.

[Shiza]

Blizzard should just remove Alliance High Elves and focus more on Night Elves instead, as well as flashing Alliance Highborne Elves at this point.

[matrix123mko]

I said first batch. I.e., the ones that came with BfA's pre-order.

And people may like the pretty purple elves, but it doesn't change the fact they are a huge ass-pull considering they literally did not exist at all in the lore and in the game until BfA pre-order.

They were an asspull indeed.

[Odintdk]

Blizzard should just remove Alliance High Elves and focus more on Night Elves instead, as well as flashing Alliance Highborne Elves at this point.

What would make even more sense is if they simply reunite all of the Bloodelves/High elves, under the one banner (Silvermoon/Quel'thalas), in which the vast majority of their people have chosen to be in for well over a decade now. Nobody sensible (least of all Elves who are a lot more intellectual than average), would choose any faction loyalty over their own people. The alternative solution outcome would be to also reunite, but go entirely neutral, and away from both faction. The latter wouldn't work well due to gameplay reasons of course.

And yes I firmly believe that despite their past "disagreements", the Nightborne should've either stayed neutral, or rejoined up with the Nightelves aswell.

[Shiza]

What would make even more sense is if they simply reunite all of the Bloodelves/High elves, under the one banner (Silvermoon/Quel'thalas), in which the vast majority of their people have chosen to be in for well over a decade now. Nobody sensible (least of all Elves who are a lot more intellectual than average), would choose any faction loyalty over their own people. The alternative solution outcome would be to also reunite, but go entirely neutral, and away from both faction. The latter wouldn't work well due to gameplay reasons of course.

And yes I firmly believe that despite their past "disagreements", the Nightborne should've either stayed neutral, or rejoined up with the Nightelves aswell.

I think the problem is how Blizzard chose not to make High Elves playable for Alliance, but gave them over and over plenty of screentime over actual playable races. The discussion is one created by Blizz and nobody else and it is understandable when people want High Elves for the Alliance when Blizzard over years portrayed them as a core alliance race. If I look back, I think they could actually be the Alliance members with the second most screentime over many expansions, when instead they should have build up Night elves more.

It doesn't makes sense and in all honesty, Blizz should have either dropped High Elves completely from Bc on or made them like Pandaren, having them start neutral and after the initial questline having the player chose if he wants to stay in QT and get green eyes or choses exile and keeps blue eyes. And yeah, Nightborne probably should rather have joined the Night elves instead of giving basically the entire arcane past lore of the Night elves to the Horde.

[Frenchvince]

So, if I understood correctly what Ion said about datamining, these shades of blue colors would not be for blood elves and maybe not for void elves but rather for high elf NPCs.




That's a lot of nuances for the eyes of a simple NPC!
In general it is a good point to have a lot of customization options to become an Allied race later.

[Katchii]

Has it ever been confirmed lorewise that the tattoos are even an established farstrider thing, rather than just something Alleria and a few others used during the second war?

Edit: Regardless the obvious solution if tattoos are ever added is to give Belfs the red ones and Helfs the blue ones.

The only real canon connection I can find is in Warcraft 2 the Elven Archers were upgraded to Elven Rangers and the Ranger included tattoos. Based on the overall lore of the Warcraft universe, these units are assumed to be Farstriders. So there's no explicit connection that says Farstriders get tattoos.

That said, why would those colors be the only ones available to each race? Any Farstrider in existence today would have had to have been born and raised under Quel'thalas when they were one unified people, and would have chosen whatever color they wanted at the time. So having a seemingly arbitrary color differentiation now, because of a faction divide that didn't exist back when they received their tattoos doesn't make much lore sense.

- - - Updated - - -

So, if I understood correctly what Ion said about datamining, these shades of blue colors would not be for blood elves and maybe not for void elves but rather for high elf NPCs.




That's a lot of nuances for the eyes of a simple NPC!
In general it is a good point to have a lot of customization options to become an Allied race later.

They just said NPC's, they didn't really specify which NPC's.

[Uthan]

The only real canon connection I can find is in Warcraft 2 the Elven Archers were upgraded to Elven Rangers and the Ranger included tattoos. Based on the overall lore of the Warcraft universe, these units are assumed to be Farstriders. So there's no explicit connection that says Farstriders get tattoos.

That said, why would those colors be the only ones available to each race? Any Farstrider in existence today would have had to have been born and raised under Quel'thalas when they were one unified people, and would have chosen whatever color they wanted at the time. So having a seemingly arbitrary color differentiation now, because of a faction divide that didn't exist back when they received their tattoos doesn't make much lore sense.

I mean, it's not even confirmed afaik if it's actual tattoos or more like warpaint. The fact that Alleria's blue stripe is quite different from her WC2 version could indicate it's not a permanent thing, or Blizz just retconned it.

Not to mention that most of the actual elven units featured in WC2 are the ones that still call themselves High Elves and stay in the Alliance, following Alleria through the dark portal and getting stranded in the Allerian Stronghold until TBC), or formed friendships with members of the Alliance while fighting alongside them and thus were probably among those that chose to aid Lordaeron during WC3 and followed Jaina to Theramore etc, so IF it wasn't a regular part of Thalassian but just a Second War thing there likely aren't many of those in the Horde nowadays.

Regardless of whatever the lore background actually is, it'd make sense for simple gameplay purposes to divide the colors as such. Having Blood Elves sport the color of the Alliance on their faces would just be weird, even from a lore standpoint (I'm sure if a Blood Elf had a blue tattoo covering half their face they'd have it magically changed to red when they changed all their heraldry etc). Blizzard often limit customization options based on what furthers gameplay even if the actual lore technically should allow for much more variety, as this thread kinda illustrates.

Edit: That is, I doubt in the actual lore all the races follow the various color codings used to promote Alliance vs Horde etc as strictly as the game does, but the game/devs portrays it as such for a reason.

[Doffen]

They were an asspull indeed.

A perfect round and thicc asspull

[Katchii]

I mean, it's not even confirmed afaik if it's actual tattoos or more like warpaint. The fact that Alleria's blue stripe is quite different from her WC2 version could indicate it's not a permanent thing, or Blizz just retconned it.

Warpaint seems more likely.

Not to mention that most of the actual elven units featured in WC2 are the ones that still call themselves High Elves and stay in the Alliance following Alleria through the dark portal and getting stranded in the Allerian Stronghold until TBC), or formed friendships with members of the Alliance while fighting alongside them and thus were probably among those that chose to aid Lordaeron during WC3 and followed Jaina to Theramore etc, so IF it wasn't a regular part of Thalassian but just a Second War thing there likely aren't many of those in the Horde nowadays.

This isn't confirmed. And in fact, is contradicted by what's in the lore. During the Third War, nearly 90% of the population of Quel'thalas was killed, of the remaining 10%, 90% of that renamed themselves Blood Elves and the remaining 1% are all that's left that still call themselves High Elves.

Even if what you say is accurate, the vast majority of the remaining population of Quel'thalas, Farstriders included, are now Blood Elves. The number of troops that could have accompanied Alleria through the Dark Portal is pretty inconsequential compared to the number of Elves that remained on Azeroth. Or are you saying that there were thousands of troops along side Alleria. Based on the lore, the only troops that accompanied her were those within her own contingent, fiercely loyal to her....not the vast majority of the Farstriders as a whole.

Regardless of whatever the lore background actually is, it'd make sense for simple gameplay purposes to divide the colors as such. Having Blood Elves sport the color of the Alliance on their faces would just be weird, even from a lore standpoint (I'm sure if a Blood Elf had a blue tattoo covering half their face they'd have it magically changed to red when they changed all their heraldry etc). Blizzard often limit customization options based on what furthers gameplay even if the actual lore technically should allow for much more variety, as this thread kinda illustrates.

I don't see why it would be weird considering there are plenty of armor sets, weapons, mounts, etc... that are blue and/or red that can be worn by either faction. The idea that a color somehow belongs to the other faction is a little ridiculous. If it is warpaint, they can choose whatever color they want. And if the color thing even was real, it would make sense for those on the opposite faction to wear their enemies colors for espionage, infiltration, spying, confusion, etc...

Edit: That is, I doubt in the actual lore all the races follow the various color codings used to promote Alliance vs Horde etc as strictly as the game does, but the game/devs portrays it as such for a reason.

Yes, it's easy to market Blue vs Red and have units in the marketing be tagged with the appropriate color to make it easy to understand, but to make it so that the factions and players don't even have a choice of the color that is tied to the opposite faction would be crazy.

[FlubberPuddy]

Yes, it's easy to market Blue vs Red and have units in the marketing be tagged with the appropriate color to make it easy to understand, but to make it so that the factions and players don't even have a choice of the color that is tied to the opposite faction would be crazy.

It would be crazy, but then there's a preponderance of blueish/purple races on Alliance and reddish/brown races on Horde.

So it may not be too crazy to think Blizzard are in a way following that easy to market Blue vs Red thematic.

[Uthan]

This isn't confirmed. And in fact, is contradicted by what's in the lore. During the Third War, nearly 90% of the population of Quel'thalas was killed, of the remaining 10%, 90% of that renamed themselves Blood Elves and the remaining 1% are all that's left that still call themselves High Elves.

Even if what you say is accurate, the vast majority of the remaining population of Quel'thalas, Farstriders included, are now Blood Elves. The number of troops that could have accompanied Alleria through the Dark Portal is pretty inconsequential compared to the number of Elves that remained on Azeroth. Or are you saying that there were thousands of troops along side Alleria. Based on the lore, the only troops that accompanied her were those within her own contingent, fiercely loyal to her....not the vast majority of the Farstriders as a whole.



I don't see why it would be weird considering there are plenty of armor sets, weapons, mounts, etc... that are blue and/or red that can be worn by either faction. The idea that a color somehow belongs to the other faction is a little ridiculous. If it is warpaint, they can choose whatever color they want. And if the color thing even was real, it would make sense for those on the opposite faction to wear their enemies colors for espionage, infiltration, spying, confusion, etc...



Yes, it's easy to market Blue vs Red and have units in the marketing be tagged with the appropriate color to make it easy to understand, but to make it so that the factions and players don't even have a choice of the color that is tied to the opposite faction would be crazy.

I mean yeah, guessing actual numbers and proportions is just that, wild guesswork. My point was more that of that 1% that are now still calling themselves High Elves, a disproportionately large amount are Alliance war veterans. Most of the elven units seen in both WC2 and WC3 were volunteers rallying to aid the Alliance despite Anasterians wishes (who opted for isolationism), and were probably more likely to be among those who were not in Quel'thalas when Arthas ravaged it (since they either stayed behind after the second war or once again left to aid the Alliance during the third and ended up following Jaina or such) or among those exiled later (already proven to not be ones to blindly follow whatever the rulers of Silvermoon dictated). Kinda depends on how large the elven force during the Second War was whether there are likely to be many of them left in Quel'thalas and calling themselves Blood Elves these days, but yeah, that's just half-educated guesswork on my part.

Considering so far the only elf with war paint is Alleria with a blue stripe, I doubt they'd want to muddle the waters any further than they already have by making Horde elves look more similar to Alliance elves. Even if they never intended to make High Elves playable giving both sides opposite colored face paint would probably help make it clear if something is an Alliance NPC or a Horde Blood Elf. Or limiting blue to the Alliance ones and giving Horde red, yellow and green, all of which kinda fit various Blood Elf themes more than blue does.

[FlubberPuddy]

Considering so far the only elf with war paint is Alleria with a blue stripe, I doubt they'd want to muddle the waters any further than they already have by making Horde elves look more similar to Alliance elves. Even if they never intended to make High Elves playable giving both sides opposite colored face paint would probably help make it clear if something is an Alliance NPC or a Horde Blood Elf. Or limiting blue to the Alliance ones and giving Horde red, yellow and green, all of which kinda fit various Blood Elf themes more than blue does.

This is what I'd think too, but we'll have to see how the rest of the race customizations for Shadowlands pans out. We're still about half a year away and they've already said the target is still 2020.

I would be surprised if after the no blue eyes they then put blue warpaint options for Blood Elves. Just because as you said it would muddy the waters. Red/gold/green, they can go ham on those because those are rightfully Blood Elven thematic colors.

Ion's response backs up what I was saying before, for gameplay designation we have High Elf = Blue eyes and Blood Elf = Green eyes (now Gold too). That is why the 'lore buffs' who said "Alleria should have emerald eyes" may be right, but Blizzard is deciding let's make a gameplay distinction for Thalassian elves where eye color denotes what kind of Thalassian elf they are.

Hence Alleria's model being given blue eyes to denote the quintessential High Elf look.

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I will say it is funny though seeing that new Forsaken/Human eye color post on wowhead and now most of the comments are 'mannn, after what Ion said about datamining it's hard to get excited over what's shown. We'll have to wait and see what actually gets added into the game."

Ion's comment shattered so many expectations.