Official High Elf Discussion Megathread

[Uthan]

This isn't confirmed. And in fact, is contradicted by what's in the lore. During the Third War, nearly 90% of the population of Quel'thalas was killed, of the remaining 10%, 90% of that renamed themselves Blood Elves and the remaining 1% are all that's left that still call themselves High Elves.

Even if what you say is accurate, the vast majority of the remaining population of Quel'thalas, Farstriders included, are now Blood Elves. The number of troops that could have accompanied Alleria through the Dark Portal is pretty inconsequential compared to the number of Elves that remained on Azeroth. Or are you saying that there were thousands of troops along side Alleria. Based on the lore, the only troops that accompanied her were those within her own contingent, fiercely loyal to her....not the vast majority of the Farstriders as a whole.



I don't see why it would be weird considering there are plenty of armor sets, weapons, mounts, etc... that are blue and/or red that can be worn by either faction. The idea that a color somehow belongs to the other faction is a little ridiculous. If it is warpaint, they can choose whatever color they want. And if the color thing even was real, it would make sense for those on the opposite faction to wear their enemies colors for espionage, infiltration, spying, confusion, etc...



Yes, it's easy to market Blue vs Red and have units in the marketing be tagged with the appropriate color to make it easy to understand, but to make it so that the factions and players don't even have a choice of the color that is tied to the opposite faction would be crazy.

I mean yeah, guessing actual numbers and proportions is just that, wild guesswork. My point was more that of that 1% that are now still calling themselves High Elves, a disproportionately large amount are Alliance war veterans. Most of the elven units seen in both WC2 and WC3 were volunteers rallying to aid the Alliance despite Anasterians wishes (who opted for isolationism), and were probably more likely to be among those who were not in Quel'thalas when Arthas ravaged it (since they either stayed behind after the second war or once again left to aid the Alliance during the third and ended up following Jaina or such) or among those exiled later (already proven to not be ones to blindly follow whatever the rulers of Silvermoon dictated). Kinda depends on how large the elven force during the Second War was whether there are likely to be many of them left in Quel'thalas and calling themselves Blood Elves these days, but yeah, that's just half-educated guesswork on my part.

Considering so far the only elf with war paint is Alleria with a blue stripe, I doubt they'd want to muddle the waters any further than they already have by making Horde elves look more similar to Alliance elves. Even if they never intended to make High Elves playable giving both sides opposite colored face paint would probably help make it clear if something is an Alliance NPC or a Horde Blood Elf. Or limiting blue to the Alliance ones and giving Horde red, yellow and green, all of which kinda fit various Blood Elf themes more than blue does.

[FlubberPuddy]

Considering so far the only elf with war paint is Alleria with a blue stripe, I doubt they'd want to muddle the waters any further than they already have by making Horde elves look more similar to Alliance elves. Even if they never intended to make High Elves playable giving both sides opposite colored face paint would probably help make it clear if something is an Alliance NPC or a Horde Blood Elf. Or limiting blue to the Alliance ones and giving Horde red, yellow and green, all of which kinda fit various Blood Elf themes more than blue does.

This is what I'd think too, but we'll have to see how the rest of the race customizations for Shadowlands pans out. We're still about half a year away and they've already said the target is still 2020.

I would be surprised if after the no blue eyes they then put blue warpaint options for Blood Elves. Just because as you said it would muddy the waters. Red/gold/green, they can go ham on those because those are rightfully Blood Elven thematic colors.

Ion's response backs up what I was saying before, for gameplay designation we have High Elf = Blue eyes and Blood Elf = Green eyes (now Gold too). That is why the 'lore buffs' who said "Alleria should have emerald eyes" may be right, but Blizzard is deciding let's make a gameplay distinction for Thalassian elves where eye color denotes what kind of Thalassian elf they are.

Hence Alleria's model being given blue eyes to denote the quintessential High Elf look.

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I will say it is funny though seeing that new Forsaken/Human eye color post on wowhead and now most of the comments are 'mannn, after what Ion said about datamining it's hard to get excited over what's shown. We'll have to wait and see what actually gets added into the game."

Ion's comment shattered so many expectations.

[matrix123mko]

A perfect round and thicc asspull

Thicc indeed. Alleria is a Windrunner, after all.

[Kyphael]

Thicc indeed. Alleria is a Windrunner, after all.

Part as to why I still love Vereesa despite all the personality faults.

[Uthan]

Ion's response backs up what I was saying before, for gameplay designation we have High Elf = Blue eyes and Blood Elf = Green eyes (now Gold too). That is why the 'lore buffs' who said "Alleria should have emerald eyes" may be right, but Blizzard is deciding let's make a gameplay distinction for Thalassian elves where eye color denotes what kind of Thalassian elf they are.

Hence Alleria's model being given blue eyes to denote the quintessential High Elf look.

Indeed, not to mention blue tents/flags/clothes vs red blue tents/flags/clothes etc whenever Blood Elves and High Elves square off. The colours themselves are more important to the faction divide stuff than the thalassian elf model itself which is already shared between factions since TBC, and considering they're hesitant to let Alliance players even play something that's already on their faction I doubt they'd drop their colour divide just like that. Yeah, transmog exists and can make you look like the opposite faction to some extent, but not really the same thing as the standard customisation options.

[baskev]

Still look cool and powerful.

Can not argue on taste and opinion. For me they are weak like high mountain taurens, but with less lore and more stupid things.

I think they have potential to be a cool race but without Umbric. They weren't blinded by Light like that fool Rommath. With their departure, I feel that blood elves lost all their flavour, being human copies. Void elves would be like true blood elves if not for two, terrible flaws: being Alliance and hating Horde; Umbric's silly communism.

Potential...yes, but they need to change so much that they pretty much become high elves.

Spellcaster race. They were explicitly stated to be sorcerer caste of old Khaz Modan. Their lore characters are shadowcasters, elementalists and priests.

yes, did you read what i wrote....warrior does not mean class warrior. It means they can handle themselves in a fight. And do not look/act like weaklings.

They are huge, strong warriors. Being fat doesn't stop their powerful arms and legs from crushing you with power of a wrecking ball.

But the heart attacks from running into battle might :P
And they look stupid and like they are missing a brain cell or 2. ( male ones) females look more normal.

They are cool. The motive of transhumanism is very interesting.

No and yes.


The problem is with the whole list. They are 1 cool race. and 3 classes. mechagnomes could also happen to other races ( becoming robots) same goes for lightforged and void. So those are not races. And they have little to no story, do not look combat ready. etc etc.

Lets put it this way. Even with the flaws they have ( some big ones) Nightborne, Highmountain and Wakanda for ever all have way more story , ( better armor), look like they can handle themselves in battle and look like they are not made to be a funny race. And all have functional racials....kul tirans have almost non that work on any decent level.
Vulpera are the only funny race. and even they have the potential to be cool.

[matrix123mko]

Part as to why I still love Vereesa despite all the personality faults.

Every elf looks lovely. Even Tyrande.

[Doffen]

Part as to why I still love Vereesa despite all the personality faults.

I can see that you know whats important in life!

[Strippling]

I don't want to give you false hope but all datamined races (except tauren) have had their body customization options (body / face tattoos included).
All that is missing is the customization options for the "head", hairstyles, faces, jewelry ect ... humans were the first to have the addition in the new build.

So I don't think the blood elves will have the high-elf farstrider customization option, they received body jewelry instead.

You're right, there is no guarantee that they'll receive tattoos. I expect that they will, as it's a part of their culture, but there is also the possibility they won't get them. Time will tell. Though people saying "tattoos are an Alliance thing" are just trolling, as blood elven magisters and farstriders are well known to sport tattoos. The blood elf on the TBC box has tattoos.

[FlubberPuddy]

What would make even more sense is if they simply reunite all of the Bloodelves/High elves

If this were to happen it would be Blood Elves going back to Alliance rather than the remaining High Elves going to join the Horde. As joining the Horde was one of the major contentions that High Elves had (and still have) with Blood Elves as well. Blizzard even dropping hints of how contentious that was in the Blood Elf city of Silvermoon itself back in TBC. Then there's also the more recent BFA rendition of Magister Umbric telling Alliance players that 'the Alliance are where our people belong' and that him and his cohorts never agreed with the decision of joining the Horde.

You also have the Three Sisters Comic where one of Vereesa's wishes is that Blood Elves will rejoin the Alliance. And in-game we have Alleria who says 'one day Silvermoon will again stand with the Alliance.'

Compare all that, and the Purge and Lor'themar discussing with Varian about moving in, to the one-off moment in Wrath where it's said pilgrimages are allowed (very different from every Thalassian makes a pilgrimage to the Sunwell).

There's far more that's been put in the game to suggest Blood Elves going back to the Alliance than High Elves going to the Horde. If reunification between the two groups were to happen, there's more that's been put in place to suggest them towards being amongst Alliance.

[Strippling]

I think the problem is how Blizzard chose not to make High Elves playable for Alliance, but gave them over and over plenty of screentime over actual playable races.

This statement is just blatantly false, and high elfers seem to rely on it as some truth. I can 100% say with confidence that every playable core Alliance race has been given more screen time than alliance high elves. Every core alliance race has been more involved than high elves through out WoW, and how do I know this? A simple search of each races NPCs and quests will show anyone that each playable core Alliance race has significantly more NPCs (named and unnamed) than high elves, offer significantly more quests than high elves (both main story quests and side quests). This claim is so easily debunked, just do a search of NPCs and quests of each alliance race and compare it to high elves... you'll quickly discover how even gnomes, worgen and draenei are given more screentime than alliance high elves. A quick search will also show that Alliance ARs are not far off alliance high elves, yet have only been active within the alliance for one expansion.

The discussion is one created by Blizz and nobody else and it is understandable when people want High Elves for the Alliance when Blizzard over years portrayed them as a core alliance race.If I look back, I think they could actually be the Alliance members with the second most screentime over many expansions, when instead they should have build up Night elves more.

Again, false. Search up each Alliance races involvement within the Alliance and you'll quickly learn how vastly more active these races have been than Alliance high elves.

And yeah, Nightborne probably should rather have joined the Night elves instead of giving basically the entire arcane past lore of the Night elves to the Horde.

I agree with you here. I personally believe nightborne should have gone to the Alliance and Horde received San'layn or forsaken high elves (ie dark rangers)

[Shiza]

This statement is just blatantly false, and high elfers seem to rely on it as some truth. I can 100% say with confidence that every playable core Alliance race has been given more screen time than alliance high elves. Every core alliance race has been more involved than high elves through out WoW, and how do I know this? A simple search of each races NPCs and quests will show anyone that each playable core Alliance race has significantly more NPCs (named and unnamed) than high elves, offer significantly more quests than high elves (both main story quests and side quests). This claim is so easily debunked, just do a search of NPCs and quests of each alliance race and compare it to high elves... you'll quickly discover how even gnomes, worgen and draenei are given more screentime than alliance high elves. A quick search will also show that Alliance ARs are not far off alliance high elves, yet have only been active within the alliance for one expansion.

Screentime isn't determined on NPCs but on the level of narrative, especially central narrative, plotlines in which a race gets the splotlight. And here the High Elves just have a higher presence than for example Gnomes or dwarves. They are THE central Alliance presence in Dalaran, the Argent Tournament and during the Quel'delar Questline in Wotlk and in MoP, they are a central presence during the Warplot. Not to forget that even just with the Purge of Dalaran, they got to shine more than Alliance-alligned Night elves ever could. They are pushed into the faces of Alliance players over and over again, so it is natural that they demand them. It is the narrative teams fault. If they had just dropped High Elves immediately from the entire game with Burning Crusade, we wouldn't have this situation to this extend. They are lowering their presence now, but it is just too late.

Again, false. Search up each Alliance races involvement within the Alliance and you'll quickly learn how vastly more active these races have been than Alliance high elves.

Dude, I'm playing longer than you to the extent where I can actually remember all the Story Questlines instead of having to google NPCs and I can tell you, High Elves were by far more present than for example Gnomes or Dwarves so far.

I agree with you here. I personally believe nightborne should have gone to the Alliance and Horde received San'layn or forsaken high elves (ie dark rangers)

Or they could have given them Void Elves, which also would have forced Blizz to creat a more unique and interesting design for them to differenciate them from Blood Elves.

[Strippling]

So, if I understood correctly what Ion said about datamining, these shades of blue colors would not be for blood elves and maybe not for void elves but rather for high elf NPCs.




That's a lot of nuances for the eyes of a simple NPC!
In general it is a good point to have a lot of customization options to become an Allied race later.

Wishful thinking. He just said they're for NPCs. He also said in the same response that it's possible to take any assets and textures and apply them to different models. So for all we know, these blue eyes might be applied to other race NPCs. For instance we see Worgen and undead with new glowing eye colors, so there's a good chance that the different blue eye shades are for a variety of races and not just elves.

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Screentime isn't determined on NPCs but on the level of narrative, especially central narrative, plotlines in which a race gets the splotlight. And here the High Elves just have a higher presence than for example Gnomes or dwarves. They are THE central Alliance presence in Dalaran, the Argent Tournament and during the Quel'delar Questline in Wotlk and in MoP, they are a central presence during the Warplot. Not to forget that even just with the Purge of Dalaran, they got to shine more than Alliance-alligned Night elves ever could. They are pushed into the faces of Alliance players over and over again, so it is natural that they demand them. It is the narrative teams fault. If they had just dropped High Elves immediately from the entire game with Burning Crusade, we wouldn't have this situation to this extend. They are lowering their presence now, but it is just too late.

Gnomes:
- Have their own hub in Ironforge (an actual alliance city, not neutral Dalaran)
- Are involved constantly in various zones in each expansion by devising weapons and strategies for the Alliance. Not just pop up every 2nd expansion for one "moment of glory" and usually on behalf of the neutral Kirin Tor.
- There are many gnomish encampments across Azeroth (I can name some if you like), each that play a purpose for the Alliance
- Gnomes were tasked with establishing a base for the Alliance expedition in wrath
- Gnomes led an attack on Gnomeregon
- Gnomes are constantly present throughout BfA and the major battles within the expansion. The high elves were not.

High elves are not the central Alliance presence in Dalaran, humans are. In fact, where are the elves in the Silver enclave? They're gone now, no longer there.

The Silver covenant were a Kirin Tor militia group formed for the interests of Dalaran (to keep an eye on the Sunreavers in Dalaran, not an Alliance city).

Dude, I'm playing longer than you to the extent where I can actually remember all the Story Questlines instead of having to google NPCs and I can tell you, High Elves were by far more present than for example Gnomes or Dwarves so far.

I've been playing since 2005. If you have a liking for a certain group you're probably going to take more notice of their presence than other races and groups.. doesn't mean they are actually more present.

Or they could have given them Void Elves, which also would have forced Blizz to creat a more unique and interesting design for them to differenciate them from Blood Elves.

Not really. it wouldn't make sense for the void elves to join the Horde. If it weren't for Alleria then the void elves would have likely been consumed by the void (ie not been playable but rather an enemy NPC faction to both Horde and Alliance).

"Many have sought to harness the corruptive magic of the Void. Most who tried have fallen into madness. Determined to use this power for the good of Azeroth, Alleria Windrunner is the first mortal to succeed at defying the shadow's whispers. Coming to the aid of a group of her kin who nearly gave in to the darkness, Alleria has vowed to train these void elves to control the shadows within them and pledge their newfound powers to the Alliance."

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Here's more proof of the "it's not in now so it won't ever be" as you're literally saying it right there.

But in this case since we're talking about racial leaders and Sylvanas isn't the racial leader of the Forsaken anymore then there is a point here. Because you know what's happened since?

They've made Lillian the Forsaken leader in the meantime, and Lillian simply looks like pretty much every female Forsaken except with glowy blue eyes. Now while datamining is datamining and not 'this is what we'll get'. We do see that there is potential for Female Forsaken to get glowy blue eyes.

Thus looking like their leader: Lillian Voss.

Ofc all speculation. But as I've said previously, they appear to be adding in customization options that allow players to emulate their racial leader. We won't really know until they finally put them into the game, but datamining has been showing lots of new potential character customization files with a lot having options for looking like your racial leader (Lor'themar eye scar, Genn's white werewolf fur, Lillian Voss Eye color, etc).

So what you're saying is if Alleria somehow dies in Shadowlands and then Umbric is appointed the leader of the void elves then void elves will now look like their leader and there'd be no reason to give them light skin options. If that's the foundation you want to set your argument on then I'm afraid it's a weak one.

Despite being disappointed to hear that blue eyes won't be an option for blood elves (at the moment, anything is possible like you love to say), it's actually not a good situation for your "light skinned void elves" request.

Ion stated that it doesn't make sense for blood elves to have blue eyes as they have moved on from that. If we go by that, then likewise it wouldn't make sense for void elves to have light skinned void elves (ie Alleria look-a-likes) as they too have "moved on" (or evolved) from that. It wouldn't make sense for them to go back to light skin options.

If blood elves who were tainted by the fel don't make sense to go back to having blue eyes, then void elves who were consumed by the void (to a greater degree than blood elves who were tainted by fel) don't make sense to going back and having human-esque skin tones and hair colors. They've evolved into void beings, thus their aesthetic should reflect that.

"That eye color does not make sense for blood elves as they have evolved"

"That skin color does not make sense for void elves as they have evolved"

[MoroboshiY]

We don't entirely know the specifics of what went through their minds but we can piece together some basics. That High Elves were considered and then rejected on the grounds they were identical to Blood Elves is almost certainly true. They probably went with the void as the method of differentiation to contrast with the Blood Elves new lightfound theme (which is probably why Blood Elves got the golden eyes as a customisation in BFA rather than, well, now).

I can't think of a scenario where Blizzard would say "you know this thing Alliance players have been asking for since before TBC? Let's give them a bastardized version of it with no set up at all while keeping the thing they asked for visible but out of their reach. I'm sure they'll absolutely love it and not complain!" that does not involve arrogance (the entertainment industry's tendency to think "we'll tell people what to like, fuck what they actually ask for"), head trauma and oxygen deprivation, or incipient tone-deafness.

It'd be one thing if there was credible and consistent lore explaining why you can't have X race. Looking a Final Fantasy XIV, some people have wanted playable Garleans (the defacto bad guy race) since sometime after the game relaunched. What makes it not possible is that in-world Garleans don't have an innate spark for aether (the game's version of magical energies), which prevents them from being most of the jobs in game since even the melee jobs use or manipulate aether in some way to use their abilities. Combine this with the in-world hatred everyone has for Garleans (since they hail from an empire that has crushed nations and subjugated their populace) and you have two solid reasons why they're not playable. That might change with future developments in the lore (especially now with the imminent collapse of the Garlean Empire), but you'd be hard pressed to find someone who would call any of the reasons why Garleans aren't playable flimsy.

Compare that to High Elves over the years:
* "They're a scattered people with no organization" - The Silver Covenant is introduced in Wrath.
* "Uhh...they're few in number and wouldn't warrant being a full new race" - Allied races (that are meant for groups that wouldn't warrant being a full new race) are introduced.
* "Umm...you're supposed to fight/hate only those that look different from you, and they'd look too similar. Also because it's impossible for us to give them their own aesthetic to make them stand out, and no one has given us any suggestions for said aesthetic. What's that? Night elves and Nightborne? Megathreads on how to make high elves distinct? Never heard of them." <== we are here
* "Ummmmm...no because the director said so"

To call it flimsy is putting it nicely.

[FlubberPuddy]

So what you're saying is if Alleria somehow dies in Shadowlands and then Umbric is appointed the leader of the void elves then void elves will now look like their leader and there'd be no reason to give them light skin options. If that's the foundation you want to set your argument on then I'm afraid it's a weak foundation.

Seeing as Alleria just came back to the story compared to Sylvanas who's been on her way out since BFA, I'd say it's a very strong foundation. Since y'know the current status quo reinforces that whereas you'd have to hope your hypothetical situation of Alleria dying comes true.

Your post reminds me of when people speculated all High Elves dying at Teldrassil, not because any evidence pointed to it at all but simply because there was a conclusion people already wanted (High Elves to no longer be among Alliance and the High Elf request to stop) and then rationalizing what could happen to reach that conclusion.

Very different from rolling with the punches and seeing the developments occurring and the potentials of where those could lead.

[Strippling]

Seeing as Alleria just came back to the story compared to Sylvanas who's been on her way out since BFA, I'd say it's a very strong foundation. Since y'know the current status quo reinforces that whereas you'd have to hope your hypothetical situation of Alleria dying comes true.

Your post reminds me of when people speculated all High Elves dying at Teldrassil, not because any evidence pointed to it at all but simply because there was a conclusion people already wanted (High Elves to no longer be among Alliance and the High Elf request to stop) and then rationalizing what could happen to reach that conclusion.

Very different from rolling with the punches and seeing the developments occurring and the potentials of where those could lead.

There is still dark rangers within the ranks of the forsaken, so that aesthetic would still make sense to be an option yet it seems at this stage it isn't happening. Blizzard are more focusing on expanding the dead human aesthetic. Likewise, it's more likely that Blizzard will expand on the void aesthetic of void elves and not an aesthetic that'd only make them closer to being a blood elf than a void elf. Remember, your best friend Ion gave us the "blurring faction lines" reasoning behind high elves not being playable. If you want to hold him to his latest comments then you should hold him to that statement too, as he hasn't retracted that statement or contradicted it. All we've gotten from him and other devs is "anything is possible", a phrase he used again in this latest interview. It's a "get out of jail card" phrase, anything is possible, but doesn't mean certain things will ever will implemented.

Anything is possible:

- Blood elves getting blue eyes at the end of Shadowlands or in the next expansion. Is it possible? Yes. Will it happen? Unlikely.
- Alliance High elves becoming playable. Is it possible? Yes. Will it happen? Unlikely, if not almost certainly no.
- Void elves getting like skinned aesthetics. Is it possible? Yes. Will it happen? Unlikely.
- High elves all being killed off. Is it possible? Yes. Will it happen? Unlikely.
- Alterac humans playable on the Horde. Is it possible? Yes. Will it happen? Unlikely, if not almost certainly no.
- Factions no longer existing. Is it possible? Yes. Will it happen? Unlikely, if not almost certainly no.
- WoW becoming free to play next year. Is it possible? Yes. Will it happen? Unlikely, if not almost certainly no.

I hope you get the drift. Just because someone says "anything is possible" doesn't mean anything will come of it.

[Sett]

It wouldn't surprise me if some of the Allied Race customizations were included for later usage. Some new eye tints for Velfs.

[Kyphael]

Every elf looks lovely. Even Tyrande.

I'm not so big on night elf females, look a little too Amazonian for me. Ironically, in-game blood elves look too thin, but like you said, The Windrunners are just the right amount of thickness.

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I can see that you know whats important in life!

hells yeah!

hey wait

[FlubberPuddy]

Anything is possible:

- Blood elves getting blue eyes at the end of Shadowlands or in the next expansion. Is it possible? Yes.

This is the one that literally is not possible lol. Ion explained why: "I can confirm Blue Eyes Blood Elves are not happening, it doesn't make sense for how they've evolved."

This is one of the rare moments where someone can say something is definitely not ever going to happen.

[DeicideUH]

It wouldn't surprise me if some of the Allied Race customizations were included for later usage. Some new eye tints for Velfs.

I think allied races will get eye color selection. The tech was already implemented in 8.3, and currently in Alpha vulpera, kul tirans and mag'har have eye color separated from faces/skins (unlike in live, their eye color does not change when you change their options). Can't say for sure for void elves, nightborne, zandalari and lightforged, since they only have one eye color anyway, but those files that weren mistaken for blood elf eyes seem to match void elf aesthetic.

Only highmountain tauren and mechagnome have eye color tied to faces in alpha, and that could change in future builds.