Official High Elf Discussion Megathread

[Broflake]

When where the Gnomes ever a backbone to the Alliance before Battle for Azeroth? Outside of their starting experience and a few camps and quests here and there, they were barely present. Hell, before Dazar'alore, there last moment of real screentime was in the one liberation event at the end of Wrath of the Lichking. And I'm certainly blaming the Devs and nobody else, stop making defenses for Blizzard. Blood Elves are the most popular model in the entire game. When Blizz is constantly showing High Elves off and pushes this race in an alliance alligned version into the faces of Alliance players, it is natural that they have the desire to play them.

The Gnomes and Dwarves suffer from a lack of screen time IN the game.
Outside of the game, they have immense parts where theyplay such an important key role that the Alliance would literally not exist without them. They are literally the reason that the Alliance has its artillery, its flying ships, and numerous other upgrades towards their architecture and military. Much of which, if it did not exist, would have resulted in the alliance being annihilated by the Horde many times over.

The high elves have had as much screen time as thegnomes and dwarves at this rate, ifnot less, because they never have an independent narrative of their own. They are entirely reliant upon the sunreavers, and in BFA< when the sunreavers are present, they are completely absent.
You really can't blame the devs anymore than you can blame Tolkien for having the Fellowship of the ring be reliant heavily on Aragorn and Sam. Just because people respond in a certain way, does not mean you are responsible for it. People are their own creatures, and blaming the devs because they made something enticing that you want is silly.
What do you want them to do? Not use the characters they made?
Kill all off all the high elves?
Blizzard doesn't push them into people's faces, that is perception entirely.
They are there to play off the story of the inner conflictthe blood elves had, and that conflict, got resolved in MoP and as such, the high elves have had no important part since.

Void elves clearly are meant to continue such a narrative, while preserving the aesthetic identity of each faction. The high elf dream was always a dream.

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I am doubtful void elves will get anything close to natural tones. If they get an expansion of colors it wont be anything that can result in them being mistaken for a high elf.

Watch, I bet someone now - after the no blue eyes for blood elves comment - some interviewer in the future may bring up and ask “are High Elves for Alliance still on the table?” or some such.

That is a safe bet given high elves always come up anytime new content is being developed, and the answer is ALWAYS "we shall see" or "its always an option".
On the other hand,no one ever pays attention to other comments of "the hordei s waiting for you" or "blood elves are our high elves". It seems odd to play th edouble standard of listening to things out of convenience.

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I'm also thinking Alleria could be the new leader of the triumvirate of the Alliance Highborne with Vereesa/Auric leading the Silver Covenant and Highvale, Umbric leading the Void Elves, and Mordent leading the Highborne

This way I'd think it'd come closer to High Elves as Void Elf customization and Highborne as Night Elf customization

Highborne literally are night elves, it would make no sense for Alleria to be a triumvirate for such a thing.
I don't understand where people got this notion that thehighborne look any different from their night elf cousins. They don't, it is a social caste.

[baskev]

Highmountain are actually stronger than normal tauren, as they were buffed by Cenarius.


I disagree. I think they should go in opposite direction. Make them really dark and decadent. Remove communists and turn them into dark elves.

Sure, they are very proud. The fact that they call themselves an empire, regardless of not having Ironforge shows their ambition.


They employ a lot of firepower so they actually only need to carry some guns, which is easy with their arms.

I agree. These races looks like classes.

Kul Tirans are the best allied race so far. They are the only ones to get completely new skeleton. Their men look very dangerous. This is the kind that you don't want to piss off when you are in the same tavern. Also, their lore is very interesting with Thornspeakers, Tidesages and Inquisition.

I have problem with seeing cool factor in small, furry creatures.

Ill stop before it becomes a endless debate.
Yes highmountain be stronger. But was talking about looking the same etc. Again communists? wtf this is not RL? And yes that could also work. But that would not fix the silly/non warrior races the alliance has.

and what has them being a empire to do with it? you talked about you thinking i mean dark irons are warriors...nope i mean fighting people, strong etc. so you starting a discussion here where there is non.

Yes kul tirans can carry guns...but they will get hearth attacks. And they still look silly.

And yes kul tirans have new skeleton. Their men do not like scary, they look like they are missing a chromosone or 2. Their racials suck, their heritage armor is a overworked piece of crap. and all of their lore yeah...they started a bit with some lore....and then cut it off. It was little and lore felt cut content.

And cool factor...i said a POTENIAL to be cool. so they are not right now. But could be. They could grow into a more honored version of the goblins. A Race that can prove itself. Also armor etc looks cool on them.

[Ardenaso]

Highborne literally are night elves, it would make no sense for Alleria to be a triumvirate for such a thing.
I don't understand where people got this notion that thehighborne look any different from their night elf cousins. They don't, it is a social caste.

Well they're all Highborne in a sense.

[Manariel]

This. Essentially, Blizzard left the old toys in the box to play with the new ones.
Vereesa was Jaina's right-hand woman in MoP, and they seemed to respect a lot each other, and yet Blizzard totally left her and the Silver Covenant out (despite the supposedly main villain being Vereesa's sister) because Blizzard wanted to showcase Alleria and the void elves instead... And managed to also almost completely ignore Alleria and the void elves for most of the expansion anyway.

ANd I feel they'll be forgotten yet again in Shadowlands.

That's what I'm afraid too.

Then again, I'm not sure that most of what we'll do in SL will truly matters to the outside world. But as I have stated elsewhere and even in this thread, I think that it's possible to develop Void Elves and High Elves in very different ways without betraying any of them.

[The Silver Covenant]

Undermining the two faction system in a faction based and undermining the Blood Elf status as the traditional high elf option is a negative impact. Just because you don't care about it does not mean the cost does not exist.

And please, 'everything I write about this topic is ridiculous?'. Aren't you the guy who says a nearly dead bunch of exiles holed up in a neutral city are THE core race of the Alliance? Because there I was thinking it was Humans, what with the supreme leader of the Alliance being a Human, the biggest Alliance city being Human, multiple Human nations within the Alliance, them being the most numerous NPCs within the Alliance, most of the important characters in the Alliance being Human...

But sure, the exiles are the core of the Alliance.

And the Hozen are the core of the Horde. Ook-Ook-Ogar!

I've never said High Elves were "THE core race of the Alliance." They are one of the Alliance's four core races that make the faction aesthetically and thematically what it is. Everything the Alliance is today was built off of the idea that humans, elves, dwarfs, and gnomes are working together as allies, much like how the Horde is built off of a foundation that included orcs, trolls, ogres, and dragons.

Stop trying to warp what people who know Warcraft better than you have to say.

[DeicideUH]

That's what I'm afraid too.

Then again, I'm not sure that most of what we'll do in SL will truly matters to the outside world.

From playing the alpha: Shadowlands doesn't feel like Warcraft at all. Everything is very alien. Particularly, I don't feel immersed at all.

[Ardenaso]

That's what I'm afraid too.

Then again, I'm not sure that most of what we'll do in SL will truly matters to the outside world. But as I have stated elsewhere and even in this thread, I think that it's possible to develop Void Elves and High Elves in very different ways without betraying any of them.

This. Essentially, Blizzard left the old toys in the box to play with the new ones.
Vereesa was Jaina's right-hand woman in MoP, and they seemed to respect a lot each other, and yet Blizzard totally left her and the Silver Covenant out (despite the supposedly main villain being Vereesa's sister) because Blizzard wanted to showcase Alleria and the void elves instead... And managed to also almost completely ignore Alleria and the void elves for most of the expansion anyway.

ANd I feel they'll be forgotten yet again in Shadowlands..

There's datamined new eyes and quote for certain Silver Covenant NPCs, so...

[Manariel]

From playing the alpha: Shadowlands doesn't feel like Warcraft at all. Everything is very alien. Particularly, I don't feel immersed at all.

Without spoiling, is it mainly because of the story or the aesthetics of the zones ?

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There's datamined new eyes and quote for certain Silver Covenant NPCs, so...

Really ? I haven't seen the quotes, do you have a link, per chance ?

[FlubberPuddy]

From playing the alpha: Shadowlands doesn't feel like Warcraft at all. Everything is very alien. Particularly, I don't feel immersed at all.

Blizzard did call it the 'high fantasy' expansion so that may be intentional.

[bobwuzhere1224]

I've never said High Elves were "THE core race of the Alliance." They are one of the Alliance's four core races that make the faction aesthetically and thematically what it is. Everything the Alliance is today was built off of the idea that humans, elves, dwarfs, and gnomes are working together as allies, much like how the Horde is built off of a foundation that included orcs, trolls, ogres, and dragons.

Stop trying to warp what people who know Warcraft better than you have to say.

Night Elves not High Elves are the core Elf Race of the Alliance.

[Obelisk Kai]

I've never said High Elves were "THE core race of the Alliance." They are one of the Alliance's four core races that make the faction aesthetically and thematically what it is. Everything the Alliance is today was built off of the idea that humans, elves, dwarfs, and gnomes are working together as allies, much like how the Horde is built off of a foundation that included orcs, trolls, ogres, and dragons.

Wait so Dragons are a foundational race of the Horde now? According to lore, the Old Horde controlled red Dragons through coercion (and when they were freed from that coercion they took bloody vengeance on the Dragonmaw Clan). In Beyond the Dark Portal the red dragons were replaced by Black Dragons, but that was because of an alliance of convenience with Deathwing whom, as we know, didn't really have their best interests at heart.

So no, Dragons were not a foundational race of the Old Horde. They were it's victims

And while the Ogres may have been one of the first races to join the Old Horde, they also left it when the old Horde collapsed. A few Ogres may remain within the Horde, but that doesn't qualify them as a core Horde race simply because they were there at the beginning. Their circumstances changed.

Stop trying to warp what people who know Warcraft better than you have to say.

You consider yourself as knowing Warcraft lore better? You just declared dragons a 'foundational' race of the Horde. Anyone who understands the lore even a little bit wouldn't have made such a statement.

No, you don't know the lore anywhere near as well as you think. You have allowed your self professed fixation on the high elves to develop into a head canon and, seemingly, you are continually frustrated that how the actual lore has developed has not matched how your own head canon has expected.

By the way, the core races of the Alliance are the Humans, the Dwarves, the Gnomes, the Night Elves, the Worgen and the Draenei. The ones actually labelled as core races.

[The Silver Covenant]

Wait so Dragons are a foundational race of the Horde now? According to lore, the Old Horde controlled red Dragons through coercion (and when they were freed from that coercion they took bloody vengeance on the Dragonmaw Clan). In Beyond the Dark Portal the red dragons were replaced by Black Dragons, but that was because of an alliance of convenience with Deathwing whom, as we know, didn't really have their best interests at heart.

So no, Dragons were not a foundational race of the Old Horde. They were it's victims

And while the Ogres may have been one of the first races to join the Old Horde, they also left it when the old Horde collapsed. A few Ogres may remain within the Horde, but that doesn't qualify them as a core Horde race simply because they were there at the beginning. Their circumstances changed.



You consider yourself as knowing Warcraft lore better? You just declared dragons a 'foundational' race of the Horde. Anyone who understands the lore even a little bit wouldn't have made such a statement.

No, you don't know the lore anywhere near as well as you think. You have allowed your self professed fixation on the high elves to develop into a head canon and, seemingly, you are continually frustrated that how the actual lore has developed has not matched how your own head canon has expected.

By the way, the core races of the Alliance are the Humans, the Dwarves, the Gnomes, the Night Elves, the Worgen and the Draenei. The ones actually labelled as core races.

You can keep pretending like WoW is the beginning of Warcraft but it doesn't make anything you have to say accurate.

[Obelisk Kai]

You can keep pretending like WoW is the beginning of Warcraft but it doesn't make anything you have to say accurate.

No, WoW wasn't the beginning of warcraft lore. But beginnings imply the start of a journey. It seems all you care about are beginnings. For you, the story seems to have started and stopped with Warcraft 2. You refuse to go on the journey that has occurred since then and how the factions have reshaped in response to that. Anyone who considers the Ogres and High Elves as key components of the Horde and Alliance is as up to date with Azerothian geopolitics as someone who believes Harold Wilson is still British Prime Minister.

[Koryn123]

With that logic, Alliance shouldn't have death knights or warlocks, because they're core foundational classes of the Horde, if one ignores how the story has evolved over the years.

[Alixie]

Damn, Im late to the celebration. From Ion's wishy washy ambiguous eye winks: "Its possible. Maybe blue contact lenses." to a firm answer: "Nope. Not happening. Doesnt make sense. They evolved." If I was petty, I'd put that in my sig.

Anyway, I wonder what made him change his mind and take the lore about Silver, Exile, They Who Must Not be Named High Elves seriously, and confirm that the Blood Elves are their own unique and separate race. Their chapter as High Elves is over. Maybe the collective work of High Elf fans who compiled a list of all possible customizations and lore throughout WoW.

[Odintdk]

I've never said High Elves were "THE core race of the Alliance." They are one of the Alliance's four core races that make the faction aesthetically and thematically what it is. Everything the Alliance is today was built off of the idea that humans, elves, dwarfs, and gnomes are working together as allies, much like how the Horde is built off of a foundation that included orcs, trolls, ogres, and dragons.

Stop trying to warp what people who know Warcraft better than you have to say.

The story moved on and continued after Warcraft 2 (it did not stop, end nor got stuck in a timeloop). The High Elves' participation in the old Alliance of Lordaeron (which by the way, only did so in very small numbers, as Anastarian Sunstrider was largely uninterested in other races conflicts) lasted around 10-15 years during then shortly after the second war, but later left that Alliance during the 3rd war and then joined the Horde for about 14 years now.

It's nonsensical to ignore the events of the past 14 or so years, then pretend that only the 15 years or so before it matter, because they of course fit your head canon better. Times change, the story progressed. I'm probably wasting my time in stating the obvious though.

Anyway, I wonder what made him change his mind and take the lore about Silver, Exile, They Who Must Not be Named High Elves seriously, and confirm that the Blood Elves are their own unique and separate race. Their chapter as High Elves is over. Maybe the collective work of High Elf fans who compiled a list of all possible customizations and lore throughout WoW.

So "Because of the nature of the restored Sunwell, The Bloodelves have evolved away from their original blue eyes" apparently means they've become another race! Damn, Today I learned that eye color determines your race. What a day.

[DeicideUH]

Without spoiling, is it mainly because of the story or the aesthetics of the zones ?

The zones are beautiful, but the setting itself doesn't seem to fit. It's like going to a totally new world, but without anyone else from Azeroth going with us. I don't get the feeling that this is an afterlife, only some sort of different plane. It's as if after death everyone was erased and new beings took their places, so their previous lives mean little or nothing.

Also, maybe it's because there's no voice acting yet, but all the characters feel the same to me. It's as if these outworldly beings lost their individuality and these races were just stereotypes coming out of a mold. Cogs in a machine, rather than characters.

I didn't go very far in the questing, thought. I can't find myself willing to play more than a few hours per week.

[FlubberPuddy]

Damn, Im late to the celebration. From Ion's wishy washy ambiguous eye winks: "Its possible. Maybe blue contact lenses." to a firm answer: "Nope. Not happening. Doesnt make sense. They evolved." If I was petty, I'd put that in my sig.

Good thing you're not

Anyway, I wonder what made him change his mind and take the lore about Silver, Exile, They Who Must Not be Named High Elves seriously, and confirm that the Blood Elves are their own unique and separate race. Their chapter as High Elves is over. Maybe the collective work of High Elf fans who compiled a list of all possible customizations and lore throughout WoW.

I really think it was. What's funny is before the interview Zoltan and Cinderys asked if Ion could open up to their stream so that he could see the images they put up on there as they went through the interview topics.

During the part about blue eyed blood elves they had also put up an old picture of Vereesa Windrunner with her title of Ranger General of the Silver Covenant lmaoo, so Ion was seeing that as he was answering the question as well

I'm pretty sure the April Fool's this year has been a nod of acknowledgement of them having the High Elf topic in General Discussion forums on their radar as well.

Still don't know if anything more will come out of it, but it was nice to get the confirmation blood elves aren't getting blue eyes with the reasoning that it doesn't make sense for em!

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So "Because of the nature of the restored Sunwell, The Bloodelves have evolved away from their original blue eyes" apparently means they've become another race! Damn, Today I learned that eye color determines your race. What a day.

Eye color is of particular importance to Thalassians because it is a visual language of their racial lore. That's why it's been used to denote what a High Elf is and what a Blood Elf is for so long in the game.

[The Silver Covenant]

For you, the story seems to have started and stopped with Warcraft 2. You refuse to go on the journey that has occurred since then and how the factions have reshaped in response to that.

Please explain to me how the High Elf story stopped for me in Warcraft 2 when Blizzard keeps putting distinct Alliance-aligned High Elves in the game? Even in TBC when the Blood Elves were given to the Horde, there are tons of non-Horde High Elves running around in Outland fighting against Kael's forces. Later expansions all the way up to BfA include High Elves.

Whenever you guys come at people with this "ur ignoring current history" nonsense, it's actually you who are deliberately choosing to ignore that High Elves have always had a separate plot track from their stolen cousins.

[Odintdk]

Eye color is of particular importance to Thalassians because it is a visual language of their racial lore. That's why it's been used to denote what a High Elf is and what a Blood Elf is for so long in the game.

By who exactly? The forum High elf fanatics? And even if we hypothetically follow that new stupid logic, it'd mean that Bloodelves with golden eyes, are now also another separate race from their green eye ones. Yeah no thanks.