Official High Elf Discussion Megathread

[kukundu]

Nope.

Horde is more represented than Alliance yes, but the lead would be around 5%.
Considering the most played Horde race is more than double the next race and you want that race on the other faction?

If you add up the % of Orcs, Trolls and Undead at 120 it still falls short of Blood Elves rep at 17.9%.

There are more Humans/Night elves than Orcs, Trolls, Undead and Tauren.

[Obelisk Kai]

Given blue-eyed blood elves were a really high probability for you (and those who didn't agree with that were in the denial for you), I would advise you to not make any prediction anymore

Allied race costumization options are definitely coming, but not at the start of Shadowlands. Ion never shut the door for the High elves.

There's a good probability we won't get them in the end. That's true. But I don't know why you absolutely need to be negative every time toward people who are hoping for them.
What's your problem with that ?

It was a really high probability. The lore rationale based on the provision of golden eyes seemed strong. Unfortunately it turned out those of us who wanted blue eyes on Blood Elves were mistaken, and that is disappointing. The flaw with your response and apparent delight that we were proven wrong is that you refuse to extrapolate the rationale from why we didn't get blue eyes to your own request for high elf like customisations on Void Elves.

Blood Elves didn't get blue eyes because, according to the devs, they have moved past blue eyes. Similarly, Void Elves have 'moved past' being high elves, and their skin tone range exemplifies that aesthetic. Your own avatar highlights the contrast they are going for with Blood Elves and Void Elves, between the light and the dark, the contrast which they emphasised with Blood Elves getting golden eyes.

If they were reticent to grant Blood Elves something as small as a blue eyed option for reasons of lore then the chances of them obliterating the very aesthetic basis for the void elves through normal skin tones options cannot be viewed as anywhere near likely.

As for the supposed negativity, the request for high elves undermines faction integrity and has more than a whiff of sour grapes about it, with constant references to the Alliance being screwed or not getting what they wanted, with no appreciation given to the reasons WHY the Alliance didn't get exactly what was wanted. The saltiness among some regarding their faction is to be pitied. If they have such a problem enjoying that faction, perhaps they are on the wrong faction.

But they shouldn't be seeking to undermine one of the unique aspects of the Horde simply because they are unhappy with the status quo. Hundreds of different races in the game, hundreds of possibilities, and the one they keep complaining about is the Horde's most popular option.

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Nonsense.
The Horde represents now 58% of the playerbase. The faction imbalance is already there. High elves could easily fix it.

No they wouldn't. This population balance thing is such a red herring. It is completely immaterial to the debate.

The fact you even cite High Elves as a fix proves my previous point, hundreds of ways to fix possible issues and all that can be thought about is copying the Horde's most popular race.

The population imbalance is due to the stronger raiding community within the Horde. People were drawn in by stronger racials. Now that the community is old and well established they don't wish to move, even as new Alliance races have gotten stronger racials, because it is access to people that matters, not what race they are playing.

If the Alliance got high elves you'd probably see a small change in the balance but it wouldn't fix Alliance raiding or Alliance feelings of inferiority. Void Elves didn't do it and for the vast majority of people the model that is indisputably an elf was enough (given they are already the fourth most popular alliance race).

Somehow I doubt a single skin tone is going to fix all the woes the Alliance playerbase seems to feel it has.

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So there were no signs of void elves at the beginning of Legion, indeed.

But there were signs of them in the datamining of 7.3 when the bones of the Allied race system were put in place. That is where we are now in relations to Shadowlands, with character customisations being datamined and none of the outliers that could hint at Void Elves getting to look like high elves being found. None of the core races are getting them, so clearly you have to be hoping the Allied races get 'special' treatment.

Like green skinned Mag'har Orcs. Should we expect those too?

There is even strong lore behind it. Some Mag'har fell into some fel. Ta-daa! Completely undeniable, water tight logic as to why a Mag'har Orc should have green tones. And if you dispute it you clearly just don't have enough vision.

Or what about non-mech customisation options for Mecha-Gnomes so they can look like their leader, King Mekkatorque? Besides a fetching chest piece he doesn't have any mechanised bits at all. Should THAT be an option too? You can say that they found their removed arms and legs and reattached them.

[Varodoc]

It was a really high probability. The lore rationale based on the provision of golden eyes seemed strong. Unfortunately it turned out those of us who wanted blue eyes on Blood Elves were mistaken, and that is disappointing. The flaw with your response and apparent delight that we were proven wrong is that you refuse to extrapolate the rationale from why we didn't get blue eyes to your own request for high elf like customisations on Void Elves.

Blood Elves didn't get blue eyes because, according to the devs, they have moved past blue eyes. Similarly, Void Elves have 'moved past' being high elves, and their skin tone range exemplifies that aesthetic. Your own avatar highlights the contrast they are going for with Blood Elves and Void Elves, between the light and the dark, the contrast which they emphasised with Blood Elves getting golden eyes.

If they were reticent to grant Blood Elves something as small as a blue eyed option for reasons of lore then the chances of them obliterating the very aesthetic basis for the void elves through normal skin tones options cannot be viewed as anywhere near likely.

As for the supposed negativity, the request for high elves undermines faction integrity and has more than a whiff of sour grapes about it, with constant references to the Alliance being screwed or not getting what they wanted, with no appreciation given to the reasons WHY the Alliance didn't get exactly what was wanted. The saltiness among some regarding their faction is to be pitied. If they have such a problem enjoying that faction, perhaps they are on the wrong faction.

But they shouldn't be seeking to undermine one of the unique aspects of the Horde simply because they are unhappy with the status quo. Hundreds of different races in the game, hundreds of possibilities, and the one they keep complaining about is the Horde's most popular option.

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No they wouldn't. This population balance thing is such a red herring. It is completely immaterial to the debate.

The fact you even cite High Elves as a fix proves my previous point, hundreds of ways to fix possible issues and all that can be thought about is copying the Horde's most popular race.

The population imbalance is due to the stronger raiding community within the Horde. People were drawn in by stronger racials. Now that the community is old and well established they don't wish to move, even as new Alliance races have gotten stronger racials, because it is access to people that matters, not what race they are playing.

If the Alliance got high elves you'd probably see a small change in the balance but it wouldn't fix Alliance raiding or Alliance feelings of inferiority. Void Elves didn't do it and for the vast majority of people the model that is indisputably an elf was enough (given they are already the fourth most popular alliance race).

Somehow I doubt a single skin tone is going to fix all the woes the Alliance playerbase seems to feel it has.

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But there were signs of them in the datamining of 7.3 when the bones of the Allied race system were put in place. That is where we are now in relations to Shadowlands, with character customisations being datamined and none of the outliers that could hint at Void Elves getting to look like high elves being found. None of the core races are getting them, so clearly you have to be hoping the Allied races get 'special' treatment.

Like green skinned Mag'har Orcs. Should we expect those too?

There is even strong lore behind it. Some Mag'har fell into some fel. Ta-daa! Completely undeniable, water tight logic as to why a Mag'har Orc should have green tones. And if you dispute it you clearly just don't have enough vision.

But this thread is about high elves and partly void elves, so why should I even mention the mag'har?

[Obelisk Kai]

But this thread is about high elves and partly void elves, so why should I even mention the mag'har?

Because attempting to isolate your specific request and pretending there are no other points of reference is foolish. Void Elves do not exist in a bubble. Asking for 'pink skin tones' on Void Elves is akin to asking for green skin tones on Mag'har, it completely defeats the point of their existence as a separate option.

[Amaterasu65]

So Ion said that blue eyes don't make sense for Blood Elves huh. At least he acknowledged the visual difference between HE and BE. I'm glad Blood Elves don't get them. Some red and purple eyes would be neat though.

I guess in a few years, when 90% of the Alliance population has already migrated to Horde they'll release High Elves for the few remaining Alliance players. Pitiful.

[Varodoc]

Because attempting to isolate your specific request and pretending there are no other points of reference is foolish. Void Elves do not exist in a bubble. Asking for 'pink skin tones' on Void Elves is akin to asking for green skin tones on Mag'har, it completely defeats the point of their existence as a separate option.

Then go make a Mag'har megathread.

[Ielenia]

I am pretty sure people enjoy Dark Iron dwarves and void elves. I see a lot of them in Stormwind.

I said first batch. I.e., the ones that came with BfA's pre-order.

And people may like the pretty purple elves, but it doesn't change the fact they are a huge ass-pull considering they literally did not exist at all in the lore and in the game until BfA pre-order.

[Varodoc]

Right, for those of you who just refuse to play blood elf,

There is a bit of a faction imbalance and it's heavily tied to races being top heavy on each faction. Most Alliance are Humans & Night Elves and most Horde are Blood Elves.
What does this say other than that for fantasy, people have very basic/generic taste, complain that Orcs/Undead are hunched (ruins their awful cape mog) and Tauren/Trolls can't show shoes (you guys are weird).

So if your High elf (which renamed to Sin'dorei after the events of Silvermoon) had a blue eyed option on alliance, then the Blood Elf population could take a large hit.

17% of all Horde players at 120 are Blood Elves, with the next being Orcs at 6.8%!
Alliance has Humans at 13.1% and Night Elves at 13.6%.

Void Elf hasn't been in the game that long, is locked behind rep and looks awful yet it is 4.5% of the Alliance at 120, the most played of all Allied Races and more so than basic races like Worgen, Gnome, Dwarf and Goblin.

So your blue eyed Sin'Dorei will not happen due to faction imbalance mainly, so just go RP in Silvermoon and embrace it boys.

Too afraid to talk on your main?

[Uthan]

But they shouldn't be seeking to undermine one of the unique aspects of the Horde simply because they are unhappy with the status quo. Hundreds of different races in the game, hundreds of possibilities, and the one they keep complaining about is the Horde's most popular option.

But it has never been unique to the Horde. High Elves have featured in the Alliance both long before, during and after the Blood Elves joining the Horde, and now we even have Blood Elf defectors on the Alliance side in the form of Void Elves which is far more detrimental to Blood Elves as a Horde feature than High Elves ever could be.

[Obelisk Kai]

But it has never been unique to the Horde. High Elves have featured in the Alliance both long before, during and after the Blood Elves joining the Horde, and now we even have Blood Elf defectors on the Alliance side in the form of Void Elves which is far more detrimental to Blood Elves as a Horde feature than High Elves ever could be.

The later point is entirely subjective and belied by the commentary in this thread. Not to put too fine a point on it, but the very fact Void Elves vex those who seek high elves so much is in itself proof that they are different from Horde Blood Elves, who represent the ideal.

And the presence of a few detractors within the Alliance doesn't justify them playable within the Alliance, anymore than the Kul Tiran pirates who aid the Horde to land in Tiragarde Sound justify a Kul Tiran option for the Horde.

[elbleuet]

The later point is entirely subjective and belied by the commentary in this thread. Not to put too fine a point on it, but the very fact Void Elves vex those who seek high elves so much is in itself proof that they are different from Horde Blood Elves, who represent the ideal.

And the presence of a few detractors within the Alliance doesn't justify them playable within the Alliance, anymore than the Kul Tiran pirates who aid the Horde to land in Tiragarde Sound justify a Kul Tiran option for the Horde.

(random) Kul'Tiran pirates aiding the Horde :

- Not part of the Horde and will never be
- Were relevant during 2 or 3 Horde quests
- Are already forgotten
- less than 10 people

High elves :

- Part of the Alliance since WII (15 years)
- Created their own Alliance faction
- Are introduced in every wow expansion
- the most current famous thalassian family is part of the Alliance

Do I really need to continue ? As usual, your comparisons are inappropriate.

[Ardenaso]

(random) Kul'Tiran pirates aiding the Horde :

- Not part of the Horde and will never be
- Were relevant during 2 or 3 Horde quests
- Are already forgotten
- less than 10 people

And the presence of a few detractors within the Alliance doesn't justify them playable within the Alliance, anymore than the Kul Tiran pirates who aid the Horde to land in Tiragarde Sound justify a Kul Tiran option for the Horde.

they will be relevant if, you know, Alterac Humans get in the Horde as they were already on the Horde before the High Elves officially joined the Alliance

[Uthan]

The later point is entirely subjective and belied by the commentary in this thread. Not to put too fine a point on it, but the very fact Void Elves vex those who seek high elves so much is in itself proof that they are different from Horde Blood Elves, who represent the ideal.

And the presence of a few detractors within the Alliance doesn't justify them playable within the Alliance, anymore than the Kul Tiran pirates who aid the Horde to land in Tiragarde Sound justify a Kul Tiran option for the Horde.

I'm confused, what ideal? A big reason many people don't like Void Elves is exactly because they are/were Blood Elves, and still remain much closer to Blood Elves than High Elves are in all but superficial aspects. And even if some of the High Elves were to turn Void Elves that would also mean for them to become more like Blood Elves, which is why many people aren't happy with that option other.

Also, if the Kul Tiran pirates had a lengthy history with the Horde and stick around for another 15 years, continually popping up to aid the horde in various circumstances then yeah, that'd definitely justify the Horde being allowed to play as them.

[elbleuet]

they will be relevant if, you know, Alterac Humans get in the Horde as they were already on the Horde before the High Elves officially joined the Alliance

Alterac humans were not part of the Horde. They just betrayed the Alliance by giving crucial informations to the Horde.

High elves are part of the Alliance. They believe in the Alliance and they fight for it.

[Ardenaso]

Alterac humans were not part of the Horde. They just betrayed the Alliance by giving crucial informations to the Horde.

The Alteraci soldiers were fighting side by side with the Horde in the WC2 campaign. They also has the mage who helped Ner'zhul. Heck, even Thrall's spies might be from Alterac

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They also had pirates who kidnapped Uther, and they captured the Farstriders

[elbleuet]

The Alteraci soldiers were fighting side by side with the Horde in the WC2 campaign. They also has the mage who helped Ner'zhul. Heck, even Thrall's spies might be from Alterac

"You and I fought side by side" Jaina to Thrall.

Was Jaina ever part of the Horde ? She wasn't.

The Alliance & the Horde already fought side by side. I don't see your point here.

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They also had pirates who kidnapped Uther, and they captured the Farstriders

Yeah. They basically betrayed the Alliance. But that still doesn't mean they were part of the Horde at that time.

[FlubberPuddy]

No, that's what you are saying. I am talking about the current phase of character customisation enhancements and which is confirmed to include allied races at a later date. If they change the principles they are clearly using now for another phase, that will be then. But this is now, and it is not a hypothetical what if situation anymore, we have actual datamined options and some developer commentary that allows to determine what the framework they are employing is.

You are saying what I'm laying out. You're just trying to use wordplay to make it seem like you are not.

How can you be saying anything different when you are going, "look at the datamining now, we don't see examples A B C, therefore they're following an established principle that denied my precious blood elves from getting blue eyes!"

Ion literally was talking about, and he mentioned it at Blizzcon as well in that recent interview, how they're just sorry it has taken so long. That they "have the technology now".

Aka, this is some fresh system that we're at the beginning of seeing. And you're trying to justify that because datamining doesn't currently show those options, they're following a principle that won't let those options be?

You realize that they've repeatedly said what you'll see is 'initial character customization' updates towards the end of april, and that more are coming. REPEATEDLY.

So yeah, you're pretty much not happy over blood elves not getting blue eyes and are trying to 'extrapolate that rationale' as to why other races won't get any other examples you've mentioned all because 'they're not in the datamining right here and now'.

You are using the argument "we don't see it right now so it will not ever happen". Whether you want to own up to that shitty argument or not is up to you.

1) Character customization updates for Shadowlands isn't over

2) Ion laments it's taken them this long

3) Ion says character customization will never end, and they want to continue to increase the options for people to express themselves through their characters.

Those hard facts destroy your 'extrapolated rationale'. And it's funny you still try to extrapolate a rationale seeing as that's what led to people thinking Blood Elves should have blue eyes (extrapolating commentary about their fel eyes) and that's backfired brilliantly.

So I'd caution you to be wary of 'extrapolating rationales', but you do you mate. Not gonna bother with this line of discussion because you're using a giant leap of logic just after your former leap of logic backfired. Doesn't look good for ya.

I'll end it with noting that the Blue Eyes Blood Elves statement was an explicit statement ("it doesn't make sense for how they've evolved"), he also admitted those eye options are for the NPCs, and what's been said on High Elves multiple times now needs no concern over what was said about Blue Eyed Blood Elves.

So therefore what's happening to Blood Elves =/= it's happening to High Elves. This further reinforces that they're different and reinforces the High Elf request.

1) Ion: Anything's possible, but no plans in the near term

2) Afrasiabi: It's possible High Elf fantasy comes through Void Elf customizations

3) Ion on showfloor: Just because they're not in BFA doesn't mean they won't be in WoW ever, the door hasn't closed.

All statements that support potentially High Elves later in the future. I'm fine with however they decide to implement High Elves as an Alliance option as long as I get to play my always loyal to Alliance Blue Eyed Elves.

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It really isn't that hard. Asking for void elves with pink skin tones is a completely reasonable request, since Alleria is a void elf with pink skin tone. Giving a lore explanation that works was done, and it is a bonus anyway and not necessary (aka dark trolls who make no sense lorewise as customization options).

If you want to write essays, go ahead, but it doesn't change the fact that you are making this complicated when it's not.

You need to tone down the mental gymnastics, because you are ridiculous.

Pretty much lol. People are doing mental gymnastics because they're still stung by the comments of what Ion said.

I mean the amount of snobbiness that high elf antagonizers was insane and uber obnoxious, Ion just shut them down in one of the best ways possible.

And I'm glad because honestly the High Elf topic from both sides only became toxic because of people not wanting it to happen being obnoxious from the get-go. People shouldn't get rewarded for being overly antagonistic and obnoxious to a community who keep to themselves and request what they want for the game just like everyone else.

I don't know how long you were following the High Elf topic but back then in 2017 the High Elf discord would get raided with trolls, a troll person exchanged google drive photos from the High Elf discord with art ideas to Chris Robinson with photos of trolls killing elves, and some even tried to delete passages of what High Elves have been doing in recent WoW from the WoWpedia.

That's how insanely toxic some people have been, yet antagonizers like to make it seem like having to make new threads on the forums because there was a post-cap limit or because of report flag abuse is somehow just as obnoxious.

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But an elf option for the Forsaken has not been datamined, nor is it going to be, so Forsaken aren't going to be able to 'look like their (former) leader, ever' as their origin is specifically being a human who was in Lordaeron at the time of the Scourge invasion. Looking like a particular leader isn't actually a criteria that has to be checked off. It was one hyped up in this thread with the purpose of achieving high elf like customisation as per Alleria.

Here's more proof of the "it's not in now so it won't ever be" as you're literally saying it right there.

But in this case since we're talking about racial leaders and Sylvanas isn't the racial leader of the Forsaken anymore then there is a point here. Because you know what's happened since?

They've made Lillian the Forsaken leader in the meantime, and Lillian simply looks like pretty much every female Forsaken except with glowy blue eyes. Now while datamining is datamining and not 'this is what we'll get'. We do see that there is potential for Female Forsaken to get glowy blue eyes.

Thus looking like their leader: Lillian Voss.



https://www.wowhead.com/news=312537/...ds-speculation

Ofc all speculation. But as I've said previously, they appear to be adding in customization options that allow players to emulate their racial leader. We won't really know until they finally put them into the game, but datamining has been showing lots of new potential character customization files with a lot having options for looking like your racial leader (Lor'themar eye scar, Genn's white werewolf fur, Lillian Voss Eye color, etc).

[Varodoc]

Honestly people like Obelisk Kai should just be muted. Mod was clear that this is supposed to be a threat were we lay out ideas on how high elves could be introduced into the game, NOT a thread to bash helfers -- which is what Obelisk Kai has been doing nonstop since the beginning.

[Ardenaso]

"You and I fought side by side" Jaina to Thrall.

Was Jaina ever part of the Horde ? She wasn't.

The Alliance & the Horde already fought side by side. I don't see your point here.





Yeah. They basically betrayed the Alliance. But that still doesn't mean they were part of the Horde at that time.

fair enough

[FlubberPuddy]

Honestly people like Obelisk Kai should just be muted. Mod was clear that this is supposed to be a threat were we lay out ideas on how high elves could be introduced into the game, NOT a thread to bash helfers -- which is what Obelisk Kai has been doing nonstop since the beginning.

Ignoring would be the most sensible option yes. Sometimes there's just statements made that are easy to point out as weak/obtuse, so pointing those out helps show the frank bias as well.

But given that people who are neutral have come into this thread to celebrate the news that Ion said because it disappointed certain users, kind of hits the point home about how certain posters have portrayed themselves.