Official High Elf Discussion Megathread

[FlubberPuddy]

By who exactly? The forum High elf fanatics? And even if we hypothetically follow that new stupid logic, it'd mean that Bloodelves with golden eyes, are now also another separate race from their green eye ones. Yeah no thanks.

Ok let me elaborate some more because I probably wasn’t clear.

But first let me State it’s not “new stupid logic”, it’s been there. You can call it stupid if you want tho but it’s not “new” it’s as old as the race being introduced into the game. Even further back with the Green Orcs which plays into what I say next.

By visual language I mean it’s their symbolic aesthetic for Blood Elf racial history, story, and progress.

Just like how Green skin for Green Orcs is their symbolic aesthetic for what those particular Orcs have been through.

You give Blood Elves Blue Eyes and you’re erasing that visual language, that differentiation of what that race has gone through and how their story has progressed.

It would be like allowing Green Orcs access to brown skin options, you erase that “racial scar” and Blizzard are big on the visuals.

While they might be arbitrary about what they allow like Wildhammer options to bronze beards or Farakki/Dark Trolls to Darkspear, that’s their onus to do so.

But by Blizzard saying, “it doesn’t make sense for how they’ve evolved” they are making eye color actually mean something for Blood Elves. Aka their green and gold eyes show their progress forward, that’s a big theme about Blood Elves. Moving past their tragedies.

Similar to Green Orcs and their ability to have overcome their bloodlust from the demonic blood once coursing through their veins and leaving that “visual language scar” of green skin.

If you allow Blood Elves to have blue eyes then it’s taking a dump on their lore for gameplay additions. Blizzard decided not to do that with them.

Now inb4 I get replies about “these same reasons you state here means Void Elves won’t ever get high elf looks” and one could be right.

But like I said Blizzard has been making arbitrary decisions, they always do, and some races like with trolls and Wildhammer the customizations are shoehorned in, while others like for Blood Elves or Green Orcs won’t be.

So really it’s with how Blizzard decides to go with it and they decided for Blood Elves there is an importance of lore to not get a certain customization option.

For High Elves, well in general they’re still a “it’s possible”, so even if Void Elves are denied High Elf skins it doesn’t mean High Elves themselves are ruled out.

Aka High Elf skins being on Void Elves isn’t the only way to get playable High Elves for Alliance.

Now I’m not gonna respond to any arguments for what Blizzard did because I’m not arguing for them.

This post is merely explaining why they did what they did and that it’s not “new” logic.

[Koryn123]

Most High Elves were the sort to stay close to home. It was the oddballs who left home to hang out with other races who eventually became the High Elves we know today because they weren't involved in the events that led to those who preferred to stay close to home becoming fel-corrupted. I'd say that it's the blood elves who are continuing on the mainstream worldview of most high elves pre-Scourge invasion. Very telling that the only people to get uppity about the blood elves' actions are those who were safe in the protected cities of their human friends. Also very telling that Vereesa, safe behind her human friends, still said if not for the support of her family that she would've given in.

The only uncorrupted elves who deserve any credit at all for making a difficult choice that resulted in added suffering to themselves are the ones led by Captain Hawkspear in Quel'lithien Lodge because they had to deal with all the same problems as the mainstream Blood Elf population, but still chose against draining mana from living things (the fact of their fate proves that they had no problem feeding the addiction through other means, when they drew from some object that turned them all into Wretched).

Those at Quel'Danil may as well, but we don't know how dangerous their situation was, being so close to the Wildhammers.

The Silver Covenant had years safe behind the shield powered by their human mage friends to meditate and have therapy and massages and whatever they liked.

[Odintdk]

Ok let me elaborate some more because I probably wasn’t clear.

But first let me State it’s not “new stupid logic”, it’s been there. You can call it stupid if you want tho but it’s not “new” it’s as old as the race being introduced into the game. Even further back with the Green Orcs which plays into what I say next.

By visual language I mean it’s their symbolic aesthetic for Blood Elf racial history, story, and progress.

Just like how Green skin for Green Orcs is their symbolic aesthetic for what those particular Orcs have been through.

You give Blood Elves Blue Eyes and you’re erasing that visual language, that differentiation of what that race has gone through and how their story has progressed.

It would be like allowing Green Orcs access to brown skin options, you erase that “racial scar” and Blizzard are big on the visuals.

While they might be arbitrary about what they allow like Wildhammer options to bronze beards or Farakki/Dark Trolls to Darkspear, that’s their onus to do so.

But by Blizzard saying, “it doesn’t make sense for how they’ve evolved” they are making eye color actually mean something for Blood Elves. Aka their green and gold eyes show their progress forward, that’s a big theme about Blood Elves. Moving past their tragedies.

Similar to Green Orcs and their ability to have overcome their bloodlust from the demonic blood once coursing through their veins and leaving that “visual language scar” of green skin.

If you allow Blood Elves to have blue eyes then it’s taking a dump on their lore for gameplay additions. Blizzard decided not to do that with them.

Now inb4 I get replies about “these same reasons you state here means Void Elves won’t ever get high elf looks” and one could be right.

But like I said Blizzard has been making arbitrary decisions, they always do, and some races like with trolls and Wildhammer the customizations are shoehorned in, while others like for Blood Elves or Green Orcs won’t be.

So really it’s with how Blizzard decides to go with it and they decided for Blood Elves there is an importance of lore to not get a certain customization option.

For High Elves, well in general they’re still a “it’s possible”, so even if Void Elves are denied High Elf skins it doesn’t mean High Elves themselves are ruled out.

Aka High Elf skins being on Void Elves isn’t the only way to get playable High Elves for Alliance.

Now I’m not gonna respond to any arguments for what Blizzard did because I’m not arguing for them.

This post is merely explaining why they did what they did and that it’s not “new” logic.

I'm sorry but that's all speculation based on nothing confirmed by Blizzard devs. The same Ion you're trying to misquote, is the one who confirmed that they were the Highelves (but renamed, as we've all seen in Warcraft 3, which many High elf fanatics continue to refer to), and they're on the horde. The recent quote you keep misquoting was that they evolved AWAY from blue eyes, not that t hey became a separate race, because again: That would mean that the new golden eyes Bloodelves are not also separate RACE from greeneyed Bloodelves. Nonsense.

Until I see an actual quote from the devs stating that eye colors magically make entirely new races, I'm gonna call bullshit head canon.

[Strippling]

These eyes are identical to those of the void elves but I would not be surprised if they are for high-elf NPCs.
For now in the alpha the high-elf NPCs have no eyes, they are being updated.

We are going to wait wisely for the build that will update the high-elf NPCs because if they have several shades of blue for their eyes, they could perhaps eventually become an allied race in the future rather than a customization for the EVs.

Waiting wisely is a smart move, else we all look like the fools on the official forums who taunt and troll each other over every bit of datamining.

Though in saying that, I strongly believe that alliance high elves as a separate playable race is practically confirmed as a no. From dev comments, to being the same race as blood elves to the addition of void elves, their possibility as their own playable unit has effectively ended. It's more likely that they'll remain as NPCs than actually becoming playable.

High elf skins for void elves would be a more likely scenario, though even that I think is extremely unlikely. Void elves have evolved into void beings, it does not make sense for them to "move backward" to blood elven aesthetics (ie light skins and hair colors). Take away any form of "void" from a void elf aesthetically and you literally have a blood elf, Blizzard have stated they do not wish to blur faction lines so it's very unlikely they'll go with the Alleria aesthetic option for void elves. Plus, like Ion said regarding blue eyes for blood elves, light skin options for void elves does not make sense. It's more likely that they'll delve further into the void theme of void elves, given that they're explicitly about the void.

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What comes for the Allied Races, Void Elves in particular, is when we’ll get a better idea of whether they want to add High Elves in that way or not. And if not, then will it be a separate option, or not ever.

We both know that option will likely never happen. Nor is it likely for void elves to get light skin and hair customizations. It doesn't make sense for void elves as they have evolved from light skin aesthetics into a void aesthetic... subsequently any additional customizations they may get will likely be more voidy hair and color options, voidy tattoos and/or jewelry.

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I'm sorry but that's all speculation based on nothing confirmed by Blizzard devs. The same Ion you're trying to misquote, is the one who confirmed that they were the Highelves (but renamed, as we've all seen in Warcraft 3, which many High elf fanatics continue to refer to), and they're on the horde. The recent quote you keep misquoting was that they evolved AWAY from blue eyes, not that t hey became a separate race, because again: That would mean that the new golden eyes Bloodelves are not also separate RACE from greeneyed Bloodelves. Nonsense.

Until I see an actual quote from the devs stating that eye colors magically make entirely new races, I'm gonna call bullshit head canon.

This 100%. Well said.

[FlubberPuddy]

I'm sorry but that's all speculation based on nothing confirmed by Blizzard devs. The same Ion you're trying to misquote, is the one who confirmed that they were the Highelves (but renamed), and they're on the horde. The recent quote you keep misquoting was that they evolved AWAY from blue eyes, not that t hey became a separate race, because again: That would mean that the new golden eyes Bloodelves are not also separate RACE from greeneyed Bloodelves. Nonsense.

Until I see an actual quote from the devs stating that eye colors magically make entirely new races, I'm gonna call bullshit head canon.

Gotta keep short cuz I’m on mobile.

1) Show me where I misquote Ion. He literally did say it [blue eyes blood elves] doesn’t make sense for how they’ve evolved.

I’m not seeing the misquote

2) Ion never literally said the phrase “AWAY from blue eyes”

3) No one said anything about a separate race but you. Not me, not Ion. Just you.

4) You’re the one misquoting and then running with that tangent. No one ever said Blood Elves became a separate race.

5) Your last sentence is ironic because you’re the one stating, “bullshit headcanons” atm.

Stop misinterpreting what’s said and then arguing on those misinterpretations.

Or go ahead and do it but I’m not gonna bother explaining the misinterpretations anymore, just going to point them out and move on.

[Strippling]

Eye color is of particular importance to Thalassians because it is a visual language of their racial lore. That's why it's been used to denote what a High Elf is and what a Blood Elf is for so long in the game.

What?

So a golden eyed blood elf is a different race to a green eyed blood elf? Eyes =/= new elf race.

Until Blizzard changes every text in the game to say otherwise, or send an official statement on blood elves, they are high elves in every aspect. Blizzard have not said blood elves and high elves are two distinct races. From what we've been given in and out of game they are the same race, just two different groups (one being the playable version who are the continuation of the high elf story and the legacy of the high elves, the other group dwindling away mixing with "lesser" races and who are "stuck in the past" unlike their kin on the Horde who are the future of the high elf race).

[FlubberPuddy]

What?

So a golden eyed blood elf is a different race to a green eyed blood elf? Eyes =/= new elf race.

Not what I said at all. What’s with all the misinterpretations lately?

Damn, Ion’s comment really set things off lol

[Odintdk]

No one said anything about a separate race but you.

You were the one who quoted my response to the person from last page who claimed they were a separate race, and went on and on about eye color. My original "Separate race" post did not even include you or anything you posted to begin with. If you acknowledge that they're the same race, why did you quote my response about it in the first place?

[Strippling]

Not what I said at all. What’s with all the misinterpretations lately?

Damn, Ion’s comment really set things off lol

Then maybe clarify what you're trying to say, the way it reads to me is you're trying to portray that eye color denotes a different type of thalassian. Which is a kin to saying that green eyed blood elves are a different type of elf to golden eyed blood elves and should have been an AR not an additional option to blood elves.

Please clarify.

Oh and you can stop with the snarky comments, Afrisiabi's comments to the high elfers really rings true at times... "be respectful"

[FlubberPuddy]

You were the one who quoted my response to the person from last page who claimed they were a separate race, and went on and on about eye color. My original "Separate race" post did not even include you or anything you posted to begin with. If you acknowledge that they're the same race, why did you quote my response about it in the first place?

Bold response: You do realize that when someone quotes a post it doesn't mean they acknowledging what you say is correct, right?

And I quoted you because I was explaining that eye color for Thalassians has significance. Doing that doesn't require me to agree with your comment on 'Today I learned that eye color determines your race."

You are reaching for something and I'm not sure what it is anymore.

And it's a public forum, people can quote others all they want. There isn't anything in the rules against that.

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Then maybe clarify what you're trying to say, the way it reads to me is you're trying to portray that eye color denotes a different type of thalassian. Which is a kin to saying that green eyed blood elves are a different type of elf to golden eyed blood elves and should have been an AR not an additional option to blood elves.

Please clarify.

I have clarified, I don't need to re-clarify. If you're not getting it then it's more likely you don't want to. Especially for someone who's been involved with this discussion for a while now.

[Strippling]

@Obelisk Kai

Although disappointing that blood elves won't be getting blue eyes (at this stage), I find his comment interesting.

He states that blue eyes does not make sense for blood elves as they have evolved from that.. or in other words they have moved past blue eyes and that blue eyes does not make who they are... they are our high elves and they don't need blue eyes to define them as such.

Likewise, if it does not make sense for blood elves to have blue eyes then it does not make sense for void elves to have "normal" skin tones and hair colors as they have evolved from that and are now defined by the void itself. Which means that there is now an even stronger case (a case already strong in the first place) that void elves will not receive "normal" customization options, as it does not make sense for them to have that. They are defined by the void and their aesthetics will reflect that. What are your thoughts?

[Broflake]

Well they're all Highborne in a sense.

In terms of their origins sure but, in terms of the original appearance?
That would be night elves.

[Strippling]

they better address why the hell she and her Silver Covenant were absent in BFA when they're the ones I expected the most to appear given that they hate the Horde on the same degree as Genn and MoP Jaina

They don't need to address it. It's clear in-game that they were absent because their loyalties lie with the Kirin Tor, not the Alliance.

[bobwuzhere1224]

@Obelisk Kai

Although disappointing that blood elves won't be getting blue eyes (at this stage), I find his comment interesting.

He states that blue eyes does not make sense for blood elves as they have evolved from that.. or in other words they have moved past blue eyes and that blue eyes does not make who they are... they are our high elves and they don't need blue eyes to define them as such.

Likewise, if it does not make sense for blood elves to have blue eyes then it does not make sense for void elves to have "normal" skin tones and hair colors as they have evolved from that and are now defined by the void itself. Which means that there is now an even stronger case (a case already strong in the first place) that void elves will not receive "normal" customization options, as it does not make sense for them to have that. They are defined by the void and their aesthetics will reflect that. What are your thoughts?

This is exactly what that means. If it doesn't make sense for Blood Elves to have Blue Eyes, despite that remark from someone else saying they want people to be able to rp as w/e which lead to all this new customization, then it most certainly will not make sense to completely undo everything that makes a Void Elf, a Void Elf.

It's pretty simple and easy to see.

[FlubberPuddy]

This is exactly what that means. If it doesn't make sense for Blood Elves to have Blue Eyes, despite that remark from someone else saying they want people to be able to rp as w/e which lead to all this new customization, then it most certainly will not make sense to completely undo everything that makes a Void Elf, a Void Elf.

It's pretty simple and easy to see.

Cool if it does then that gives strength for High Elves as a separate race option just as many High Elf fans preferred.

[MoroboshiY]

The story moved on and continued after Warcraft 2 (it did not stop, end nor got stuck in a timeloop). The High Elves' participation in the old Alliance of Lordaeron (which by the way, only did so in very small numbers, as Anastarian Sunstrider was largely uninterested in other races conflicts) lasted around 10-15 years during then shortly after the second war, but later left that Alliance during the 3rd war and then joined the Horde for about 14 years now.

To my recollection, the High Elves left for a weird reason (that the Alliance didn't do enough for them during the second war), but came back to a capacity when the scourge steamrolled them on the way to the Sunwell.

It's nonsensical to ignore the events of the past 14 or so years, then pretend that only the 15 years or so before it matter, because they of course fit your head canon better. Times change, the story progressed.

This would hold if all high elves on Azeroth had renamed themselves to blood elves. In fact, I was under that assumption until I started seeing random neutral high elf NPCs in vanilla WoW, which remained as such when Blood Elves became playable in TBC. TBC also had the Allerian Stronghold in Outland, which didn't help sell the "high elves joined the horde" narrative (Blizzard could have made them neutral since both Alliance and Horde were fighting the Fel Horde and Illidan's forces). At that point they were arguably scattered, which was acceptable. Then Wrath came and established that not all high elves became blood elves and see themselves as separate from them (hence why things like Quel'Danil Lodge and the Silver Covenant exist). Given the Quel'Dalar questline and comments from certain high elf NPCs, the high elves and blood elves are not on good terms and are thus not a unified people.

Since then, they maintained an in-world presence and played roles in certain events (the Dalaran Purge, Suramar). So you're right, the story has progressed. And high elves are still very much their own thing and remain loyal to the Alliance.

Void Elves are the future.

If that's the case, they should have been written with a lot of set up. There should have been a lot of foreshadowing at the start of the class hall campaigns (the stuff with the Heart of Light or whatever that thing was called), concluding with all high elves becoming void elves during the campaign on Argus.

[bobwuzhere1224]

Cool if it does then that gives strength for High Elves as a separate race option just as many High Elf fans preferred.

Or not playable at all.

[Strippling]

Cool if it does then that gives strength for High Elves as a separate race option just as many High Elf fans preferred.

Oh Pennem, always quick to forget Ion's other statements. You know, the one about "the horde is waiting for you", or the one about "blurring faction lines". Both statements which are still applicable as Blizzard have not said otherwise.

[MyWholeLifeIsThunder]

[QUOTE=Traycor;52302283]Many models in WoW are reused when an appropriate use comes along. One of the concerns the OP is addressing is the need to find ways to make high elves distinct from blood elves. I think this currently unused area has some great architecture and a great look that would feel high elven. Maybe it could be retextured, but I think it could even work in its current state. This would be perfectly acceptable to me as a form of architecture that fits the high elves, and it would give it a slightly different feel than what blood elves have without just being a simple recolor.

Basically, I think this is a creative solve. A great idea of thinking outside the box./QUOTE]

Yeh, but I'm saying it contextually makes no sense for High Elves.

Could they go there? sure! but there's nothing in their current narrative that points them there.

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I'm confused here, what are you trying to say? I shouldn't feel that SKywall fits the sort of place I imagine high elves would live in?


I can explain why I feel this way; It's b/c its gorgeous [subjective - to me], it has the level of detail , colour scheme that fits that race. This is why I feel that way, I'm explaining hey I feel that way, unless you are now telling I shouldn't feel this way.

I feel this would be great for High elves, but I'm not saying this is high elven, just saying it looks like something that would fit right in.

I don't think its wrong to feel this way, I don't think anyone should judge that, what would be incorrect is saying that it is high elven architecture, not saying that it looks like it should be high elven or looks like like something that fits or "SCREAMS" high elf.

I don't think this is about trying to evaluate anothers' feeling

I mean indeed, that's my point ultimately. What subjectvely "feels" high elven is not what necessarily makes in universe sense.

Oh I got that, I was just waffling with additional stuff,. Yes, dalaran would be an option, as would doing something a bit closer to the night elf highborne. My order of preference would be

1. Silvermoon aesthetic - its gorgeous ti was designed for the high elves - I wouldn't want the alliance half the race suddenly "not allowed to have it or build that way because the horde ones have it htat way.. to me that's silly reason. And while I like diversity and variation, so if possible they should give something else, I think it's altogether un-necessary, it's the style of the people, I belong son both blood elf and high elf. Just like how I feel Suramar, Zin'Azshari that's night elf stuff, and it belong on both Nightborne and Night elf.

2. My 2nd choise would be Skywall. Simply because it's breath-taking, has the lofty feel to it, with the colour schemes etc. A ground version is what I had imagined, , don't think high elves should be in the air or in another plane for that matter, even if Dalaran is.

3. Dalaran - It's not as nice as the first 2, but canonically a lot of high elves live there, it's halfway between the high elf and human stuff, Although imo, if hey were to do half elves as a thing, Darlan instead of Stormwind would be perfect for their home. Regardless of the city being neutral or not. I see no reason why an entire city used by both factions has to suddenly go one faction because the main race in it goes to that faction. I t can do, but it doesn't have to stop being what it is about.


4. Some halfway to Highborne architecture - this would be my last choice, because I think the Thalassian and night elves should have the degree of separation that they already have just the way things are, and the current sets have just enough similarity for you to recognise them both as elven albeit different styles of elven, whiles I can easily see some of my NElf fans welcoming this for greater high/night elf relationships. Now if the High elves were to move in with the night elves in a a rebuilt kaldorei city - with the pristine version of this night elf architecture, than fine, that has an appeal to it. Making it the high elf architecture not so much, some fusion between the two like you suggest would be more preferable, but not as preferred to me as option 1. or 2.


These are ofc my opinions and my preferences, quite understandable if you have another, and prefer something else. In the past I would argue that my choice was best, but then I gained a little wisdom and realised, that was only true for me, and that others because they were different would have different preferences and likes.

These days I am not trying to force people to agree with my choices preferences or likes, Id o like sharing them and talking about them, going into detail about why like them so. But I take the same approach to other things. When I realise something, and it comes up in conversation, I like to say, and if I feel people don't get it, I am alwayshappy to explain how or why I got there.

What I am getting at is "what makes most sense for them from an in universe perspective?"

And as such I am either "Silver Covenant, thus hybridized with human culture" or "Highvale, thus probably more of a retro feel."

The thing is is that I am not approaching this as I would like it, but as what would make more sense in universe without creating a new aesthetic. Like I would say the highvale would create a new aesthetic, I am pointing out to what would be easier to implement.

Many times I'm just giving my opinion on how I feel something should be, not trying to establish lore or dictate to Warcraft that this is how it is. Perhaps my manner is to strong, and mis leadingly gives that impression. I will ponder on these things.

Oh no don't worry, i'm merely pointing out how I am disagreeing with a particular take, Im not taking this as a "this is what High Elves should be" thread.

[MyWholeLifeIsThunder]

If I remember it correctly, this is an alpha image. In game it is more destroyed. I wonder if these old, intact buildings are there in the files so they could be used for Quel'thalas revamp.


I agree. This could look like that. Just replace the moons with a sun motif. There is one on the roofs of Silvermoon.


It is a nice design idea that Dalaran is derivative of Silvermoon.


As for the presence in military command, I agree that they now share it. However, I wonder where are the magisters in it.

Indeed. What I am pointing out is that High Elves could use a similar aesthetic -specially in terms of reusing assets, in this case, geometry mostly-

Just swap the moons for suns and you'd have a more thalassian feel.

I think dalaran its itself a mix between human and elven aesthetics, so it works as an inspiration.