Official High Elf Discussion Megathread

[Odintdk]

To my recollection, the High Elves left for a weird reason (that the Alliance didn't do enough for them during the second war), but came back to a capacity when the scourge steamrolled them on the way to the Sunwell.

During the aftermath of the 3rd war and the defeat of the burning legion, The now-Bloodelves were deemed "traitors" by the the remaining Loredaeron survivors' leader and were awaiting their ordered execution, when illidan's Naga interfered to save them. That is why they never returned.

This would hold if all high elves on Azeroth had renamed themselves to blood elves. In fact, I was under that assumption until I started seeing random neutral high elf NPCs in vanilla WoW, which remained as such when Blood Elves became playable in TBC. TBC also had the Allerian Stronghold in Outland, which didn't help sell the "high elves joined the horde" narrative (Blizzard could have made them neutral since both Alliance and Horde were fighting the Fel Horde and Illidan's forces). At that point they were arguably scattered, which was acceptable. Then Wrath came and established that not all high elves became blood elves and see themselves as separate from them (hence why things like Quel'Danil Lodge and the Silver Covenant exist). Given the Quel'Dalar questline and comments from certain high elf NPCs, the high elves and blood elves are not on good terms and are thus not a unified people.

Since then, they maintained an in-world presence and played roles in certain events (the Dalaran Purge, Suramar). So you're right, the story has progressed. And high elves are still very much their own thing and remain loyal to the Alliance.
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https://wow.gamepedia.com/High_elf

"the high elves rejoined with Prince Kael'thas Sunstrider, and renamed themselves "blood elves", in honor of their perished brethren.[8] The blood elves then sought to unite and restore their people to the glory they enjoyed at the height of high elf civilization,[9] and have retaken much of their land from the Scourge.[8]

However, a few high elves did not rename themselves blood elves. High elves and blood elves are physiologically the same race, and the difference between high and blood elves is only political.[10] When Quel'Thalas left the Alliance, some high elves chose to remain with their allies over their kingdom, and to this day still support the Alliance.[7] Some high elves were exiled from Quel'Thalas after the Third War.[11] Other high elf remnants have chosen to rejoin the Alliance in recent years, arriving to a cold reception.[2] Modern high elves are a rare sight, and are commonly mistaken for blood elves.[12][13] In consequence, there are very few high elves left on Azeroth today. High elves did not gather in any significant numbers and are a very small group of individuals. Indeed, modern high elves cannot even truly be said to have a culture—only a past filled with glory and regret.[2]

As a people, the high elves are all but extinct: the remnants of the remnants of a fallen race.[14] Though without any official leader, Vereesa Windrunner leads one of the few organized high elf collaborations, the Silver Covenant, as its self-styled Ranger General. Auric Sunchaser, a captain of the remnants of Alleria's ranger cadre found in Terokkar Forest, serves as the high elven representative at the restored Sunwell in modern Quel'Thalas."

Only some High elves rejoined the Alliance to begin with, and as for the Silver covenant, their true loyalty has been and will always will be to the Kirin Tor (neutral as been confirmed and reinforced by every kirin tor leader. Of course in the instance where the Silver covenant participated in the purge of dalaran, the primarily reason was that they accused the sunreavers of breaking neutrality in the conflict (Mists of Pandaria), more than anything else.

[FlubberPuddy]

Or not playable at all.

Yes, they could decide to finally say no we're not going to make them playable ever. So far they have not. Very different from the blue eyes blood elf answer which was very explicit and final. No "it's possible" in sight.

Oh Pennem, always quick to forget Ion's other statements. You know, the one about "the horde is waiting for you", or the one about "blurring faction lines". Both statements which are still applicable as Blizzard have not said otherwise.

Didn't forget. Not just Ion had told someone on the showfloor that 'the door hasn't closed' and 'just because they're not in BFA doesn't mean they won't be in WoW ever' for High Elves. Kind of just like another fan asking on the showfloor for dark skin Blood Elves happening or not and they got the answer they were happening.

Seems people are quick to forget Ion's comment there, which comes after the Q&A and/or dismiss it entirely.

[Manariel]

During the aftermath of the 3rd war and the defeat of the burning legion, The now-Bloodelves were deemed "traitors" by the the remaining Loredaeron survivors' leader and were awaiting their ordered execution, when illidan's Naga interfered to save them. That is why they never returned.



https://wow.gamepedia.com/High_elf

"the high elves rejoined with Prince Kael'thas Sunstrider, and renamed themselves "blood elves", in honor of their perished brethren.[8] The blood elves then sought to unite and restore their people to the glory they enjoyed at the height of high elf civilization,[9] and have retaken much of their land from the Scourge.[8]

However, a few high elves did not rename themselves blood elves. High elves and blood elves are physiologically the same race, and the difference between high and blood elves is only political.[10] When Quel'Thalas left the Alliance, some high elves chose to remain with their allies over their kingdom, and to this day still support the Alliance.[7] Some high elves were exiled from Quel'Thalas after the Third War.[11] Other high elf remnants have chosen to rejoin the Alliance in recent years, arriving to a cold reception.[2] Modern high elves are a rare sight, and are commonly mistaken for blood elves.[12][13] In consequence, there are very few high elves left on Azeroth today. High elves did not gather in any significant numbers and are a very small group of individuals. Indeed, modern high elves cannot even truly be said to have a culture—only a past filled with glory and regret.[2]

As a people, the high elves are all but extinct: the remnants of the remnants of a fallen race.[14] Though without any official leader, Vereesa Windrunner leads one of the few organized high elf collaborations, the Silver Covenant, as its self-styled Ranger General. Auric Sunchaser, a captain of the remnants of Alleria's ranger cadre found in Terokkar Forest, serves as the high elven representative at the restored Sunwell in modern Quel'Thalas."

Only some High elves rejoined the Alliance to begin with, and as for the Silver covenant, their true loyalty has been and will always will be to the Kirin Tor (neutral as been confirmed and reinforced by every kirin tor leader. Of course in the instance where the Silver covenant participated in the purge of dalaran, the primarily reason was that they accused the sunreavers of breaking neutrality in the conflict (Mists of Pandaria), more than anything else.

Then where were they during Legion ? Why did they leave Dalaran, as far as we can tell, when the Horde was allowed to get a foothold here, again ? It's pretty clear that the main allegiance of the SC is with the Alliance and that they wanted the Kiron Tor to firmly join. WHen Khadgar came back, usurped Jaina's position and brough back Dalaran out of the Alliance, it seems the forces of the Silver Covenant left the city entirely.

We don't know where they moved to, but I'm willing to bet that as long as Dalaran is neutral, they won't serve it.

[MoroboshiY]

During the aftermath of the 3rd war and the defeat of the burning legion, The now-Bloodelves were deemed "traitors" by the the remaining Loredaeron survivors' leader and were awaiting their ordered execution, when illidan's Naga interfered to save them. That is why they never returned.

Ah, so you're talking about the thing with Garithos. Fair enough.

As I said, TFT's Alliance Campaign gave me the impression that Blood Elves were unified under their prince. Even if a split happened during TBC (because Kael was turned into a bad guy), at that point it'd be just BEs that are Kael'thas loyalists vs BEs that aren't. I was expecting zero high elf presence in WoW because of that.

wowpedia high elf link

Like I said, issues would not exist if all high elves on Azeroth had been brought under the blood elf label after TBC or if Blizzard had written them out entirely over time. They had all of Wrath, Cata, and MOP to do that (hell, a reconciliation/unification subplot during Cataclysm would not have gone amiss). Instead, their presence in-world was expanded, which is fuel for threads like this one.

as for the Silver covenant, their true loyalty has been and will always will be to the Kirin Tor (neutral as been confirmed and reinforced by every kirin tor leader.

I wouldn't claim the Kirin Tor are 100% neutral. The only reason the Horde even had a foothold in Dalaran was because of Aethas Sunreaver, who was in the Council of Six. So one member of Dalaran's ruling council essentially vouched for the Horde. Would make more sense to say that the Horde's presence was tolerated because of how high the stakes were (the Lich King and Yogg Saron). Not everyone, even in the Council of Six, looked at things the way Rhonin (or Khadgar later on) did.

Of course in the instance where the Silver covenant participated in the purge of Dalaran, the primarily reason was that they accused the sunreavers of breaking neutrality in the conflict (Mists of Pandaria), more than anything else.

It is still something they took part in and was a relatively important lore event. This ties back to their increased in-world presence.

Though your post reeks of self-entitlement and a whole lot more, I played through their story, and all I said was: They're the future. Take what you will from that!

TIL that expecting decent writing instead of asspulls (especially when attempting to circumvent something people were asking for over several years) is being entitled. "Don't think, just consume", amirite?

[Koryn123]

Then where were they during Legion ? Why did they leave Dalaran, as far as we can tell, when the Horde was allowed to get a foothold here, again ? It's pretty clear that the main allegiance of the SC is with the Alliance and that they wanted the Kiron Tor to firmly join. WHen Khadgar came back, usurped Jaina's position and brough back Dalaran out of the Alliance, it seems the forces of the Silver Covenant left the city entirely.

We don't know where they moved to, but I'm willing to bet that as long as Dalaran is neutral, they won't serve it.

Pretty sure they probably joined the Hunter order hall. Any others who didn't most likely joined the mage order hall, or generic Alliance military forces.

[Obelisk Kai]

Pretty sure they probably joined the Hunter order hall. Any others who didn't most likely joined the mage order hall, or generic Alliance military forces.

The three sister's comic which is set after Legion also depicts Veressa still living in Greyfang Enclave in Dalaran. And during the assault on Suramar the few exiles at the staging grounds are mixed up with some kirin tor assets.

[Strippling]

Then where were they during Legion ? Why did they leave Dalaran, as far as we can tell, when the Horde was allowed to get a foothold here, again ? It's pretty clear that the main allegiance of the SC is with the Alliance and that they wanted the Kiron Tor to firmly join. WHen Khadgar came back, usurped Jaina's position and brough back Dalaran out of the Alliance, it seems the forces of the Silver Covenant left the city entirely.

We don't know where they moved to, but I'm willing to bet that as long as Dalaran is neutral, they won't serve it.

Then where were their forces during BFA? Arguably one of the biggest wars between the Alliance and Horde. No high elf squads were present and aiding the Alliance. Nope, none, nada.

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Didn't forget. Not just Ion had told someone on the showfloor that 'the door hasn't closed' and 'just because they're not in BFA doesn't mean they won't be in WoW ever' for High Elves. Kind of just like another fan asking on the showfloor for dark skin Blood Elves happening or not and they got the answer they were happening.

Seems people are quick to forget Ion's comment there, which comes after the Q&A and/or dismiss it entirely.

Ion said he can confirm blood elves weren't getting blue eyes as it doesn't make sense. If I want to apply your mental gymnastics to Ion's comments then I could interpret that to this affect "well Ion actually never said that blood elves will never get blue eyes ever, and that's final. All he said was they are not getting them, not that they will never get them hurr durr".

Blizzard have been firm and consistent on their stance of alliance high elves, consistency is key here. They haven't been implemented for very specific and completely understandable reasons, and they will likely remain unplayable for said reasons. It makes no sense to blur faction lines, especially when Blizzard have reinforced several times as of late the importance they give to keeping factions separate and races unique.

[bobwuzhere1224]

Yes, they could decide to finally say no we're not going to make them playable ever. So far they have not. Very different from the blue eyes blood elf answer which was very explicit and final. No "it's possible" in sight.

It's called dangling the carrot.

[Obelisk Kai]

Then where were their forces during BFA? Arguably one of the biggest wars between the Alliance and Horde. No high elf squads were present and aiding the Alliance. Nope, none, nada.

Well almost all interactions with the Silver Covenant have taken place in relation to Dalaran.

The Silver Covenant, or what's left of them (there have been several brutal conflicts recently after all and they were described as near dead BEFORE the campaign against the Lich King, the Pandaria conflict and the Third invasion of the Burning Legion so there's bound to have been a winnowing), still live in Dalaran as the Three Sisters comic confirms.

Dalaran didn't take a side in the Fourth War.

That the Silver Covenant didn't participate in the war because of Dalaran's neutrality is the likeliest explanation by far. But IF the Silver Covenant valued their place in Dalaran (now a neutral city) over their alleged devotion to the Alliance, then that leads to only one conclusion. That their supposed 'devotion' to the Alliance isn't as important a factor as certain people have made out.

After all, when push came to shove, you could count the number of exiles who actively helped the Alliance during the fourth war on one hand. And only one of them did any fighting.

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@Obelisk Kai

Although disappointing that blood elves won't be getting blue eyes (at this stage), I find his comment interesting.

He states that blue eyes does not make sense for blood elves as they have evolved from that.. or in other words they have moved past blue eyes and that blue eyes does not make who they are... they are our high elves and they don't need blue eyes to define them as such.

Likewise, if it does not make sense for blood elves to have blue eyes then it does not make sense for void elves to have "normal" skin tones and hair colors as they have evolved from that and are now defined by the void itself. Which means that there is now an even stronger case (a case already strong in the first place) that void elves will not receive "normal" customization options, as it does not make sense for them to have that. They are defined by the void and their aesthetics will reflect that. What are your thoughts?

This was my take on the comments also.

It is important to remember that the request for blue eyes was based on the same interpretation of lore that led to Blood Elves getting golden eyes, namely that the Sunwell (which is canonically universal for all thalassian elves with the likely exception of the void elves) was a font of light and arcane energies. If holy energies are now providing golden eyes, then arcane should have been able to allow for the restoration of blue eyes.

The rationale relied upon arcane and holy being more or less equal components of the new Sunwell. But if the Sunwell is instead providing only golden eyes, then the only reasonable conclusion is that the light is in fact dominant. Blood Elves has already moved away from using blue eyes, the fel ambience of the crystals scattered across Silvermoon having turned their eyes green. The exiles weren't present for this stage, so their eyes have remained blue. Both groups are now subject to the infinite radiance of the Sunwell. In the long term, all high elves will probably leave blue AND green eyes behind in exchange for gold. But this process will probably extend past the lifetime of WoW and thus won't be represented. Golden eyes are only manifesting right now amongst those who are particularly devoted to the light after all, so far only Blood Elf Paladin and Priest NPCs (but available to all players) and it will be interesting to see if there is a wider mix depicted once Shadowlands goes live.

Now what did Blood Elves not getting blue eyes prove? Firstly, lore matters. You can rationalise an explanation as to why something you want makes complete sense but if the team at Blizzard disagree then it's not going to happen. Steve Danuser was called up to review the customisations and was point blank asked if any of them violated current lore, and he said none of them did. The very fact he was asked means they are treating the lore seriously. The fact none of the options presented to him actually did violate the lore means that nobody should expect something impossible.

Secondly, popularity doesn't matter. Citing perceived support for something is clearly immaterial to it's prospects of success. Is support unimportant? No, of course not. Support allows Blizzard to see what is wanted. But blue eyes were wanted and rejected on the basis of lore. If something is wanted, but it's incompatible with the race as Blizzard sees it, then it won't happen. Certain other requests also seem not to be happening. There are no dark ranger skins, no gilgoblin skins, no san'layn skins, no eredar skins, no leper gnome skins. These are all requests to use existing races as a vector to play as a variant. You would think that if Blizzard intended to allow existing races to be used as a vector through which to play a variant, SOMETHING would have been found. Yet none has, and we go back to Moorgard's comment once again, that nothing that breaks the lore was suggested, and nothing that breaks the lore would have been allowed.

Enhanced customisation for existing races has plenty of options to add that 'colour within the lines' so to speak, rather than attempt to turn an existing race into something they are not.

And ultimately, this impacts on Void Elf customisation. Whilst the later Allied races came in with many more customisation options (and will likely as a result see less attention when their customisation pass comes), Void Elves were in the very first batch. They will likely get plenty of new options, but what will they be?
The number one request is for void elves to get some kind of high elf customisation, so that people can pretend to be a high elf whilst playing a Void Elf.

Pretending to be a high elf whilst playing a Void Elf breaks lore. You can't pretend to be a San'layn or a Dark Ranger on a Blood Elf as there aren't any options for those skins. You can't pretend to be a gilgoblin on a goblin. You can't pretend to be an Eredar on a Draenei. The current approach is that 'maybe these options will be added at some point in the alpha' but once again a lot has been datamined and nothing inconsistent with a race has been found so far. Lore matters. Hazzikostas said we would see the character customisations hooked up in the coming weeks and it would give us an idea, but I don't imagine we will find anything that breaks the lore of each race. I mean can you imagine playing a Gilgoblin and then doing the Goblin heritage armor quest? The entire basis for that quest is your backstory on Kezan and rivalry with Gallywix. It breaks lore so, according to the guidelines Moorgard confirmed exist and the parameters established by Ion for the rejection of blue eyes, something that extreme cannot be allowed.

Void Elves are Void Elves. The entire reason they exist was to give the Alliance their own thalassian elf without undermining the thematic and aesthetic identity of the Blood Elves as the traditional high elf option in the game AND to protect the integrity of the Horde faction and the faction divide itself, a pillar of the game.

Those who argue Void Elves should get high elf like skin tones are arguing that the reason Void Elves were allowed in the first place should be obliterated. That goes against common sense, why on earth would they do that?

Those who argue Void Elves should get high elf like skin tones, when posed with that question, argue that it is a popular request that Void Elf fans want. Popularity of course doesn't matter if it violates lore, blue eyes were a request for the most popular race in the game and would have pleased numerous people. Didn't happen, And plenty of other popular requests aren't happening either because they violate the lore.

Those who argue Void Elves should get high elf like skin tones then point out Alleria, the first Void Elf (who also happens to have been a high elf prior to her transformation, never a Blood Elf) and say that they should be able to look like their leader. Which is of course supremely disingenuous. There is no requirement that you should be able to look like your leader. Draenei aren't getting a thin option to look like Velen. Forsaken players never got an option to look like Sylvanas, nor will they likely get an option to look like Calia. And Mecha Gnome players may have a lot of explaining to do if they say they want to look like their leader, King Mekkatorque, as that will involve finding long discard limbs and eyes for reattachment.
The principle of 'looking like your leader' is one invented in this debate to justify getting high elf skin tones on Void Elves. High Elf skin tones on Void Elves are incompatible with the lore and with the gameplay rationale of why Void Elves exist.

Ion's comments, as explained above, mean whatever chances they had to happen have dramatically decreased from their already low chance of success.

Some may say 'Afrasiabi said they were possible!' but that was in 2018. Ion Hazzikostas, once upon a time, mentioned High Elves as a possible candidate for the new sub-race system they were going to do one day. And then they sat down, thought about it and came out with Void Elves. It has now been a year and a half since Afrasiabi made his comment, and we are seeing the core races getting their customisations. None of what is being provided offer a precedent for Void Elves getting high elf like skins. They have had their time to think about this, just as they did with the possibility of high elves as an allied race. All signs indicate the same conclusion has been reached.

What Void Elves will get, and they will get something, is colouring within the lines. More blues, more purples, more dark edges. Blue eyes are a safe bet for Void Elves. In fact I'd wager that the gameplay reason Blood Elves aren't getting blue eyes isn't to protect the identity of an npc group, but because Blizzard probably wishes to heighten differentiation between Void Elves and Blood Elves as much as possible and restricting certain eye colours to each group is an easy way of accomplishing it. Blue eyes, silver eyes, maybe dark violet eyes on Void Elves are possible. Extra tentacle options. Freaky tattoos. Optional living eyeballs embedded in the skin. So many options to lean into the Void Elf fantasy and aesthetic, consistent with the lore. This is the likeliest outcome and nobody should be upset at a void themed race getting void themed customisation.

[FlubberPuddy]

It's called dangling the carrot.

That would presume players who want High Elves are only subbed in hopes High Elves come to be.

While that could be true, you’d have to provide evidence for it.

I can provide evidence of the opposite.

I wanted demonhunters in the game for a very long time, ever since I started the game in Wrath of the Lich King.

Unsubbed at Firelands Cataclysm release, never subbed again until after demonhunters were made playable during last month or so of WoD.

Got what I wanted without even having to play the game nor pay Blizzard any more money.

I also remember Aeula on these forums stating that he’d unsub if high elves ever became playable then like a couple months after that comment he’d commented how he’s already unsubbed for other reasons not related to high elves. Now he’s back to being subbed to WoW.

While people may want and discuss the topic of adding high elves or not to the game, and come off as probably their decision to keep playing the game hinges on that aspect, the truth is for the vast majority involved it doesn’t.

That goes for whether one is anti or pro high elf.

So I’d say your comment is a dud at best.

People stay or quit the game for far more sensible reasons. The playability of High elves aren’t related to that.

[matrix123mko]

Well they're all Highborne in a sense.

Despite popular opinion, blood elves, void elves, high elves, san'layn, naga and satyr are all highborne.

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Indeed. What I am pointing out is that High Elves could use a similar aesthetic -specially in terms of reusing assets, in this case, geometry mostly-

Just swap the moons for suns and you'd have a more thalassian feel.

I think dalaran its itself a mix between human and elven aesthetics, so it works as an inspiration.

Yes, add some suns and phoenixes and it works. Blood elves could use that too.

[FlubberPuddy]

Ion said he can confirm blood elves weren't getting blue eyes as it doesn't make sense. If I want to apply your mental gymnastics to Ion's comments then I could interpret that to this affect "well Ion actually never said that blood elves will never get blue eyes ever, and that's final. All he said was they are not getting them, not that they will never get them hurr durr".

Sure man think how you want. I’m not going to stop you from doing that or attempt to tell you how you should or shouldn’t hope for things or not.

Blizzard have been firm and consistent on their stance of alliance high elves, consistency is key here. They haven't been implemented for very specific and completely understandable reasons, and they will likely remain unplayable for said reasons. It makes no sense to blur faction lines, especially when Blizzard have reinforced several times as of late the importance they give to keeping factions separate and races unique.

Nah they’ve actually been very inconsistent lol

During WoD on an interview where sub races were asked about Ion threw out High Elves as a suggestion among Mag’har Orcs.

After Void Elf release Ion makes the statement Blood Elves are High Elves, which is about BE being the biological race high elf (which no one has ever argued against that), a red herring to misconstrue what the High Elf request is asking for which is essentially Silver Covenant elves if that helps make it easier for everyone to understand.

Then his commentary there is never brought up again. Ever.

When Afrasiabi is asked about High Elf customizations coming to Void Elves he doesn’t repeat what Ion said 6 months earlier that same year. He instead states “it’s possible” with huuuge emphasis on “don’t give up hope” where he’s clearly referencing the High Elf request peeps.

A fan account during that same BlizzCon has Ion also not repeating his earlier April statement and instead producing a more encouraging response, “the door hasn’t closed” “just because they’re not in BFA doesn’t mean they won’t be in wow ever”.

As we know dark skin blood elves were asked about from a fan account at BlizzCon and we see those to be true now, we can extrapolate (because people love doing that lately ) that fan accounts, in general - not every single one, can be held true.

Jeremy Feasel is also on record for stating that Blizzard knows High Elves are “a community favorite” as well. This comes after the BlizzCon where Ion was asked about High Elves with JessieCox. Meaning Jeremy Feasel also was inconsistent with not parroting Ion’s statement then.

Many inconsistencies lol

Oh but I guess you are right in that they’ve been consistent that High Elves are possible

[matrix123mko]

I also quite like this for Quel'thalas, my friend who's carazy into blood elves, loves this pic so much , and wanted Silvermoon remade like it. I pointed out, how very Night elfy it looked based on the NElf designes for the Kaldorei - including Suramar and Zin'Azshari - he didn't care, his response was that it's all elven, and the different colour scheme was enough.

I am sure it is all your fault. This art shows literal Silvermoon. You can see similarity to both WoW Silvermoon and Warcraft 3 Quel'thalas. If you see Zin'azshari here it is only because Silvermoon was built exactly as a copy of Zin'azshari because citizens of Zin'azshari wanted their home back.

Personally, while I prefer enough architectural variation, to which the current Thalassian Silvermoon in-game architecture and the Night elven Suramar architecture give are sufficient inmo for the distinction needed.

The only architectural difference is that one kind of elves uses moons and other uses phoenixes. Nothing big.

but if Silvermoon is recast as blood elf only and High elves are too be given a new identity and distinct architecture as different from them, then hearkening back to the Kaldorei roots would bea cceptable, I also think friendship between the highborne and the High elves in this scenario should blossom, as they really hold similar ideals. I would say the highborne are more extreme than the high elves, so may even get on well with the priesthood as a consequence.

What Kaldorei roots? All they need to be full Kaldorei is purple skin and maybe conversion to elunism, if you want them to be more like common caste.

There are many beautiful nuances that can separate the two elven groups faction wise. I've never felt they should be separated on stupid liens such as horde being the arcane, fancy lot, and alliance being the forest wood improvished lot. That's unfair imo, as it is stripping a very much loved aspect of both alliance elves groups from the fans there that already liked that.

A lot of high elf fans want to be stripped from arcane so they can become wood elves. They consider it a way to make high elves unique from blood elves and more similar to Legolas.

The distinction should be philosophical and ideal rooted.

It is. Alliance elves hate Fel with passion. They also have obsession about humans.

For example, while Nightborne hate the Legion why are they fine with Warlocks, blood elves too? While Night elves and High elves distinctly do not, with void elves and Illidari having a converse philosophy coming from the approach of using the darker powers purely to dismantle the dark forces that employ them, as opposed to being philosophically fine with it.

Although I like this direction, is it brings blood elves their identity back, there is one detail that you miss. Illidari aren't Alliance faction and their only aren't opposed to Fel. Void elves also don't loathe void magic. They learned it from curiosity.

As a horde elf, I would have tehe philosophy be that you have no problem with dealing with corruptive powers or forces as long as it furthers your goals whatever those may be.

I would really love it but first Rommath has to go. He stands as an obstacle for magical development of Quel'thalas.

As an alliance elf, your principal motivation in dealing with those powers is to defend your world and people, using a powerful force that can be harnessed. = that's for the Warlock/DH types

Sure, this could work for night elves and high elves, as long as we keep them a minor faction. Veressa has her clear stance on fel magic. Void elves use the void mainly for self defense but also out of curiosity.

Magical wise - the alliance elves are big on the value and sacredness of magic, magic in balance, and control. Excellence yet discipline - to avoid the path of the past.

Sure, they could go this way.

For the horde elves, such restrictions are meaningfless, use magic to the full to achieve your goals never suffer the hold backs that allowed Quel'thalas to be overcome by inferior races (blood elves), and for Nightborne, you continue in the vein of the pre-sundering Kaldorei invasion period - where no magical research is taboo or off limits.

I think efficiency should still be one of their themes. While they don't care about sacredness of magic or being humble, they would master the magic in a way that lets them have the greatest effect for little price. They would still use magic for very mundane goals, like cleaning up but they would save a lot of mana for later. This is what would set them apart from unexperienced mortals who spend mana like savages, leaving a lot of it in the environment after succesful spellcast. Horde elves, as ageless masters, would know how to gather that residual magic and use it against pathetic mortals.

- I wouldn't be suprirsed if Azshara was very disappointed in Highborne who were worried about addictin or reckless use of the well and considered them like the lesser castes - who held a sacred value to the arcane, the wilds and would allow their morality to get in the way of progress.

If only she joined the Horde. That would be beautiful. As now the Horde has no warchief, she doesn't need to bow to anyone.

[Ardenaso]

Despite popular opinion, blood elves, void elves, high elves, san'layn, naga and satyr are all highborne.

yes, the Blood Mage's battle cry is even "by the blood of the Highborne"

[Broflake]

Despite popular opinion, blood elves, void elves, high elves, san'layn, naga and satyr are all highborne.

Highborne are night elves.
None of those you listed are night elves.
Otherwise, they're all trolls and that is not correct.

[bobwuzhere1224]

That would presume players who want High Elves are only subbed in hopes High Elves come to be.

While that could be true, you’d have to provide evidence for it.

I can provide evidence of the opposite.

I wanted demonhunters in the game for a very long time, ever since I started the game in Wrath of the Lich King.

Unsubbed at Firelands Cataclysm release, never subbed again until after demonhunters were made playable during last month or so of WoD.

Got what I wanted without even having to play the game nor pay Blizzard any more money.

I also remember Aeula on these forums stating that he’d unsub if high elves ever became playable then like a couple months after that comment he’d commented how he’s already unsubbed for other reasons not related to high elves. Now he’s back to being subbed to WoW.

While people may want and discuss the topic of adding high elves or not to the game, and come off as probably their decision to keep playing the game hinges on that aspect, the truth is for the vast majority involved it doesn’t.

That goes for whether one is anti or pro high elf.

So I’d say your comment is a dud at best.

People stay or quit the game for far more sensible reasons. The playability of High elves aren’t related to that.

I know several people on the main forums and in discord that are not coming back to Shadowlands because of High Elves not being added. And if they had been added, they would come back instantly.

Blizzard not outright saying No to playable High Elves is the most obvious carrot dangle, I've ever seen and to disregard the obvious like you have is silly at best.

[FlubberPuddy]

I know several people on the main forums and in discord that are not coming back to Shadowlands because of High Elves not being added. And if they had been added, they would come back instantly.

Blizzard not outright saying No to playable High Elves is the most obvious carrot dangle, I've ever seen and to disregard the obvious like you have is silly at best.

You could call any race not added yet a carrot dangle, you can call Ion saying “it’s possible” for Master Loot to come back a carrot dangle too.

The main point is the vast majority of the playerbase and even those who get super involved in niche topics (like this one) will not based their sole decision to sub or not on it.

That you anecdotally know people doesn’t equate to the vast majority. It more than likely means your bubble is full of extremist views.

The reason I point out myself is because I consider myself average in regards to whether I decide to play WoW because the way I play has already been cited by Blizzard themselves as the way majority play: Not constantly subbed, with periods of not subbing and periods of subbing. So I already know I am the typical audience Blizzard is referring to, hence being able to use myself (as a pro high elf person) and then using Aeula (as an anti high elf person).

People who stayed subbed by “carrot dangling” is therefore very niche and not what Blizzard relies on for revenue.

Just sounds like a comment made when you have no good argument to put forth. So you make a snark comment: it’s a carrot dangle.

If it were then you’d see exactly the same people who asked for High Elves since before the game launched, asking for it today. You don’t though, because the request itself isn’t required to be upheld by the same people.

It’s popular enough that it’s remained a mainstay request throughout WoW’s years and has grown since the advent of system improvements to adding races.

[bobwuzhere1224]

You could call any race not added yet a carrot dangle, you can call Ion saying “it’s possible” for Master Loot to come back a carrot dangle too.

The main point is the vast majority of the playerbase and even those who get super involved in niche topics (like this one) will not based their sole decision to sub or not on it.

That you anecdotally know people doesn’t equate to the vast majority. It more than likely means your bubble is full of extremist views.

The reason I point out myself is because I consider myself average in regards to whether I decide to play WoW because the way I play has already been cited by Blizzard themselves as the way majority play: Not constantly subbed, with periods of not subbing and periods of subbing. So I already know I am the typical audience Blizzard is referring to, hence being able to use myself (as a pro high elf person) and then using Aeula (as an anti high elf person).

People who stayed subbed by “carrot dangling” is therefore very niche and not what Blizzard relies on for revenue.

Just sounds like a comment made when you have no good argument to put forth. So you make a snark comment: it’s a carrot dangle.

If it were then you’d see exactly the same people who asked for High Elves since before the game launched, asking for it today. You don’t though, because the request itself isn’t required to be upheld by the same people.

It’s popular enough that it’s remained a mainstay request throughout WoW’s years and has grown since the advent of system improvements to adding races.

You could say that about any other race but you don't because the High Elf request isn't like any other race request and Blizzard knows this. That's why they poke fun at it in April Fools, that's why they're constantly saying "anything is possible" or "don't give up hope". Because they know they have a fanbase that's wants this request and it would be a bad move to flat out say No.

Other Race requests don't compare because they are not as vocal as the High Elf request has been on the main forums. Right now there are 6 minimum High Elf threads active. Compare that to other requests which are confined to one thread. Maybe if you left your bubble here on MMO-Champion and actually saw what was happening, you'd get why this is a Carrot Dangle in the purest example.

It's not that hard to understand.

[FlubberPuddy]

You could say that about any other race but you don't because the High Elf request isn't like any other race request and Blizzard knows this. That's why they poke fun at it in April Fools, that's why they're constantly saying "anything is possible" or "don't give up hope". Because they know they have a fanbase that's wants this request and it would be a bad move to flat out say No.

Other Race requests don't compare because they are not as vocal as the High Elf request has been on the main forums. Right now there are 6 minimum High Elf threads active. Compare that to other requests which are confined to one thread. Maybe if you left your bubble here on MMO-Champion and actually saw what was happening, you'd get why this is a Carrot Dangle in the purest example.

It's not that hard to understand.

First Bold) Thanks for admitting it's not like any other race request it is pretty much leagues above any other and will be until the matter of the topic gets finality.

On "they know they have a fanbase that wants this request it would be a bad move to flat out say no" ummm Blue Eyes for Blood Elves was flat out denied and Blood Elves are the single most-played race in the game, making up around 40% of Horde at max level.

They clearly have no issue saying no to any big communities within their game if they can deny the fanbase of the most played race in the game.

On 2nd Bold) You obviously don't know because you're new to this thread but I've brought in sources from multiple websites into this thread. I don't just browse MMO-C when discussing the High Elf topic, I do see what other places, especially the official forums say about it.

When you say there's minimum of 6 High Elf threads active are you including those troll threads "High Elves should have golden eyes" because you know that anti-high elf threads are different from the pro-high elf ones, right? And as for the pro-high elf threads, those people have told others to leave any re-opened threads alone and concentrate in one.

But you can't expect others to control the whole population of a topic, especially if that topic is as huge as the High Elf thread. But you sure like to paint it as if "6 minimum High Elf threads are active" while other race requests are contained to one as if it means pro-helf people are spamming the topic.

You should look into who those threads are made by, and what they're about instead of looking at the words "High Elf" and thinking it's from the people requesting High Elves.

It's not that hard to understand.

I'll leave you to your held beliefs now.

[elbleuet]

Just a reminder for some Horde posters :

Dalaran is an Alliance kingdom neutral toward the Horde and favoring the Alliance. We're barely tolerating you in the city for the greater good and that's it.

Your Horde representative is gone for good. All the members of the council of six are Alliance members. Even Kalecgos is an Alliance character.
And Khadgar is Alliance. See : https://wow.gamepedia.com/Khadgar

So all the High elves are Alliance in the city. Some declared themselves neutral toward the Horde. But in the end, they will always side with the Alliance whatever happens.

See what's happened during the purge of Dalaran. Horde members will always be foreigners in Dalaran.

You can't just wage war to all the human kingdoms of Azeroth (Gilneas, Stromgarde, Kul'Tiras, Stormwind, Stromgarde & Theramre) and be like "but but Dalaran is neutral they looooooove the Horde"

Dalaran is a human/high elven kingdom. I don't think they're too happy with how the Horde deals with human kingdoms in general.