Official High Elf Discussion Megathread

[Obelisk Kai]

Ok if you say so, if that can reassure you ...
Meanwhile Blizzard tells another story in WOW.

They really don't. The use of the ambiguous word 'evolve' has stirred the pro high elf community again. You've been stung since the big rejection in 2018 and have been desperate to see if you can find any way of either proving Ion wrong or arguing he, and by extension the team, have changed their minds so you can say 'high elves are back on the table's.

They aren't. The term evolve can be used, inappropriately, to describe a physical change in an individual. The pro high elf community has therefore latched onto this incorrect use of the term to argue high elves and blood elves are truly different things.

Yet the eye colour difference was one of several smaller differences cited in the big rejection between the two groups in 2018. These differences were not cited to acknowledge they are different, they were cited to make the cumulative point that these differences don't matter. Blood elves and exiles are biologically the same race who share a theme and an aesthetic. One of the demonstrated facts about their biology is that their eye colour is mutable under the effects of a dominant magical ambience.

In the past this was blue, reflecting their arcane sunwell . When it was destroyed, the dominant ambience became anything in the vicinity. This, for the blood elves, was the felt crystal brought back by rommsth from Outlander. The tiny coterie of exiles who remained away from quel'thalas didn't have an opposing ambience that could have shifted their eye colour. The opposite in fact as many gravitated to dalaran where arcane magic is used commonly.

Now however the sunwell is restored. A font of dominant light energy that both blood elves and exiles partake of. Eventually, as demonstrated by precedent, all who feed on the well will gain golden eyes.

The exiles and the blood elves share the same destiny as the same people with the same energy source. The void elves do not due to their void based nature. Cold blue eyes will doubtless be one of their customizations when their pass comes. It will help differentiate them from the blood elves.

[Uthan]

...
Now the writers can confidently write two separate stories regarding the two elf races. Well, I mean they been doing that for years, but now we have updated confirmation that the Blood Elves have evolved separately from their High Elf cousins.

Man, I love the idea of the introduction of the High Elves would be the unification of the High Elf clans, and agreeing to sever themselves from Silvermoon and the Sunwell for good. Sort of like a reverse of the Blood Elf heritage quest line. "We are High Elves no longer/ We are High Elves forever"

Indeed, nice to have it confirmed to hopefully lessen some of the headcanon going on from people insisting they are the same. And yeah, having a mass gathering of High Elves unifying to perform some ritual to sever themselves from the Sunwell would be the perfect way to drive that home fully and open up new avenues of customization.

[Obelisk Kai]

Indeed, nice to have it confirmed to hopefully lessen some of the headcanon going on from people insisting they are the same. And yeah, having a mass gathering of High Elves unifying to perform some ritual to sever themselves from the Sunwell would be the perfect way to drive that home fully and open up new avenues of customization.

Do you not find it funny that you express a hope to have less 'headcanon' coming into this thread...only to then provide some extra head canon of your own?

A ritual to sever themselves from the sunwell? Now why on earth would they do that? From an in universe lore perspective I doubt the few remaining exiles are saying to themselves 'you know what would be a genius idea? For us to cut off the link (only recently restored) to the source of magic that allows us to continue to live without gnawing hunger pangs that could eventually kill us and will at least maim us'.

Severing themselves from the Sunwell for the sake of it is a ridiculous proposition in terms of lore. It's simply an off the top of your head suggestion that has no credible reason why they would do it beyond allowing you to argue from an out of game perspective that 'see? they are different from blood elves'. It's the same as those suggestions for the high elves creating a new culture for the sake of it.

Blood Elves and high elf exiles remain the same race. All that was said was a restatement of the status quo, that blood elves can't have blue eyes because of their circumstances. This was true when the exiles were ruled out two years ago when the different eye colour was specifically mentioned as one of the minor differences that didn't actually matter in the end result that Blood Elves are high elves.

As things stand, only one ritual exists that likely results in the severing of the connection to the sunwell for a good reason, the ritual to become a Void Elf and to replace the power source of the Sunwell with a direct connection to the void. So that headcanon'ed mass gathering of high elves, if they DID want to sever themselves from the Sunwell, that is how they would do it. Is that what you meant by the way, all of them turning into a blue eyed Void Elves? That is actually a viable path for them to take.

Because here is the cold hard facts of the matter.

They are not going to give the Alliance a second thalassian elf race to the Horde's one.

They are not going to waste the now much rarer opportunities to add distinct allied races on a duplicate of a core Horde race. They are not going to waste the rare opportunity to add distinct allied races on giving the Horde another thalassian elf at the same time just to justify giving that duplicate to the Alliance because plenty of people want actual new races that offer tangibly different experiences rather than the latest minute variation of elf.

Anything they do will be done through the Alliance's thalassian elf, the Void Elves.

And they have just ruled out blue eyes for Blood Elves on the grounds they don't make sense for Blood Elves, which makes it extremely unlikely Void Elves will get high elf customisations on the same principle, as Void Elves have clearly moved past having normal skin tones.

What you are all excited for recently has been the affirmation of the status quo. A status quo where the Horde has Blood Elves and where the Alliance has Void Elves. A status quo where the Blood Elves don't have blue eyes and the Void Elves won't be getting normal skin tones. And a status quo wherein the exiles are so forgotten the appearance of Veressa in a non speaking role was greeted as tangible evidence that they mattered.

[elbleuet]

And a status quo wherein the exiles are so forgotten the appearance of Veressa in a non speaking role was greeted as tangible evidence that they mattered.

Lor'Themar spoke some words. He came alone to fight Sylvanas, without any troops, so he was kind of useless. Quel'Thalas was clearly unenvolved.

Vereesa didn't say a word, but brought her high elf ballistas in front of the gates of Orgrimmar. This is all that matters.

[Obelisk Kai]

Lor'Themar spoke some words. He came alone to fight Sylvanas, without any troops, so he was kind of useless. Quel'Thalas was clearly unenvolved.

Vereesa didn't say a word, but brought her high elf ballistas in front of the gates of Orgrimmar. This is all that matters.

Blood elves are a playable race though. They aren't held to the same standards as, say, the hozen when it comes to justifying their importance to their faction. That they are important is self evident.

And do you have proof she brought those ballistas. They could have been mothballed weaponry taken from theramore weapon caches for the siege. There was a population of exiles there and the army DID gather in dustwallow.

[Frenchvince]

Blood elves are a playable race though. They aren't held to the same standards as, say, the hozen when it comes to justifying their importance to their faction. That they are important is self evident.

And do you have proof she brought those ballistas. They could have been mothballed weaponry taken from theramore weapon caches for the siege. There was a population of exiles there and the army DID gather in dustwallow.

Lending ballistas for this 4th war is an act of allegiance to the alliance.
Providing allies with war material without intervening directly in the conflict, this also exists in real life.

[Obelisk Kai]

Lending ballistas for this 4th war is an act of allegiance to the alliance.
Providing allies with war material without intervening directly in the conflict, this also exists in real life.

Nobody denied they were helf ballistas. But that Veressa brought them by herself? With no operators? Unlikely.

The army assembled in dustwallow marsh as proven by the cinematic. Dustwallow is the site of Theramore. Theramore is where jaina's army settled. A few exiles did live there. So it is far more reasonable that the ballistas have been in mothballed in alliance caches built whilst theramore was still standing.

As Anduin said they only had enough men for one assault so even this old equipment would have been if use.

[Frenchvince]

Nobody denied they were helf ballistas. But that Veressa brought them by herself? With no operators? Unlikely.

The army assembled in dustwallow marsh as proven by the cinematic. Dustwallow is the site of Theramore. Theramore is where jaina's army settled. A few exiles did live there. So it is far more reasonable that the ballistas have been in mothballed in alliance caches built whilst theramore was still standing.

As Anduin said they only had enough men for one assault so even this old equipment would have been if use.

Can you explain to me about these siege weapons?
they were also hiding in a ruined city?




The High Elf ballists have been added to the files for BFA.



In the H / A: Fall of Theramore scenario, there were no ballists, nor high elf NPCs.

https://youtu.be/rd7jyCNOACY
https://youtu.be/41jzhJiYids

I feel like you are looking for an emergency exit,
when there is no need.

[Ardenaso]

Can you explain to me about these siege weapons?
they were also hiding in a ruined city?




The High Elf ballists have been added to the files for BFA.



In the H / A: Fall of Theramore scenario, there were no ballists, nor high elf NPCs.

https://youtu.be/rd7jyCNOACY
https://youtu.be/41jzhJiYids

I feel like you are looking for an emergency exit,
when there is no need.

To be fair Varian sought to use the surrounding areas in Theramore as another staging grounds against the Horde. He may have assigned the Silver Covenant for them and it's probably continued by Anduin

[Frenchvince]

To be fair Varian sought to use the surrounding areas in Theramore as another staging grounds against the Horde. He may have assigned the Silver Covenant for them and it's probably continued by Anduin

We will never know, this is just speculation, Theramore is a human city above all and apart from Vereesa (soo1 and 2), there has never been a member of the Silver Covenant in Kalimdor.

[Nak88]

Good post but no thank you, we already have blood elves who are basically identical.

[elbleuet]

High elf ballistas defenitely belongs to the Silver Covenant. So far the Silver Covenant is the only high elf organization to use them.

[FlubberPuddy]

Good post but no thank you, we already have blood elves who are basically identical.

Hey thanks for the respectable post.

We're asking for Alliance elves though, we don't care that Horde blood elves exist. So we'll keep on asking.

- - - Updated - - -

Ok if you say so, if that can reassure you ...
Meanwhile Blizzard tells another story in WOW.

That's pretty much all that needs to be said. It seems pretty pointless some of the recent discussion branches. It's like a race to see who's arguments can crash and burn worst.

I think Ion's comment was good development because Blood Elf players felt like they had ownership over blue eyes and by extension High Elves. It's glad to hear confirm that's not the case, they've lost that sense of ownership.

It's also good he said Blood Elves have evolved differently. This I take to mean society-wise, hence that means High Elves will be going down a different path. Very good news.

[Obelisk Kai]

Can you explain to me about these siege weapons?
they were also hiding in a ruined city?




The High Elf ballists have been added to the files for BFA.



In the H / A: Fall of Theramore scenario, there were no ballists, nor high elf NPCs.

https://youtu.be/rd7jyCNOACY
https://youtu.be/41jzhJiYids

I feel like you are looking for an emergency exit,
when there is no need.

Well if we are talking lore there are multiple explanations.

1.) Previously discussed weapons caches around (not in) Theramore. Or stored at the Alliance base in Northwatch Hold and Honor's Stand.

2.) Weapons the Silver Covenant 'forgot' to reclaim from the Alliance when Dalaran restored neutrality.

3.) Alliance engineers know how to build the ballistas and they built them to spec.

Can you, definitively, ruled out any of these three options or any other? Can you, definitely, say it MUST be the Silver Covenant participating in the battle even though the only high elf of any description who was on the field of combat that day was Lor'themar Theron?

If there had been even one high elf operator on the field then that would have been all the evidence you needed. Just one, to show it was a Silver Covenant operation aiding the Alliance scenario. Veressa of course was only there because her sisters were there, and wasn't seen in the actual fight.

But there wasn't a single one. Just a bunch of inanimate objects moved to the battlefield. Multiple explanations as to where they came from and how they got there but none that can be confirmed with certainty.

- - - Updated - - -

It's also good he said Blood Elves have evolved differently. This I take to mean society-wise, hence that means High Elves will be going down a different path. Very good news.

Just because he is clear the Blood Elves are moving in a certain direction, the corollary is not the high elves are going on their own path. The exiles have no path. They have no real future.

They remain low in number, divided, scattered and degrading and they are still biologically subject to the same Sunwell, which will inevitably scour blue eyes from them in favour of golden in the fullness of time, should any of the few remaining survive long enough.

The only blue eyed elves who are charting their own path remain the Void Elves.

[elbleuet]

Can you, definitively, ruled out any of these three options or any other? Can you, definitely, say it MUST be the Silver Covenant participating in the battle even though the only high elf of any description who was on the field of combat that day was Lor'themar Theron?

Don't know if we're playing the same game, but Lor'Themar is a blood elf and did nothing on the field of combat.

Anyways. The ranger general of the Silver Covenant was there, that's why we can see all these siege weapons in front of the gates of Orgrimmar.

[Obelisk Kai]

Don't know if we're playing the same game, but Lor'Themar is a blood elf and did nothing on the field of combat.

Anyways. The ranger general of the Silver Covenant was there, that's why we can see all these siege weapons in front of the gates of Orgrimmar.

Lor'themar was a Horde leader of a proven playable race. Nothing to prove in other words.

And if the Silver Covenant was participating, where were the Silver Covenant members? Even Veressa wasn't actively fighting, she was scouting as Alleria's sidekick. And she was there solely because Sylvanas is her sister. Had there been no familial relationship I doubt Blizzard wouldn't have bothered to bring her into the scenario. They didn't even give her any lines, they gave those to the far more important Void Elf racial leader Alleria.

- - - Updated - - -

Give Blood Elves the High Elf eyes and be done with it. Ally don't need it, if they glowly blue eyed elfs they can play a void elf.

Nope that's done. Blood Elves have moved past blue eyes. And Void Elves have moved past normal skin tones. A status quo outcome in other words.

[Frenchvince]

Well if we are talking lore there are multiple explanations.

1.) Previously discussed weapons caches around (not in) Theramore. Or stored at the Alliance base in Northwatch Hold and Honor's Stand.

2.) Weapons the Silver Covenant 'forgot' to reclaim from the Alliance when Dalaran restored neutrality.

3.) Alliance engineers know how to build the ballistas and they built them to spec.

Can you, definitively, ruled out any of these three options or any other? Can you, definitely, say it MUST be the Silver Covenant participating in the battle even though the only high elf of any description who was on the field of combat that day was Lor'themar Theron?

If there had been even one high elf operator on the field then that would have been all the evidence you needed. Just one, to show it was a Silver Covenant operation aiding the Alliance scenario. Veressa of course was only there because her sisters were there, and wasn't seen in the actual fight.

But there wasn't a single one. Just a bunch of inanimate objects moved to the battlefield. Multiple explanations as to where they came from and how they got there but none that can be confirmed with certainty.

Your 3 options are not valid because:

1) Theramore is a human port city, if there were weapons caches, there would only be human weapons of war.

2) there has never been a Silver Covenant in this city, only a few High Elf inhabitants (3 or 4) who were not part of the military forces which defended it.

3) They have their own ships and siege weapons with human architecture. There are only human ballistas in this city.

As I told you during a war, the allies lend their weapons without necessarily participating in them.

[elbleuet]

And she was there solely because Sylvanas is her sister. Had there been no familial relationship I doubt Blizzard wouldn't have bothered to bring her into the scenario.

That's funny because Vereesa was already there for the first Siege of Orgrimmar without Alleria. Along with Jaina, she's the only Alliance leader to have participated in both sieges.

Btw, where were Lor'themar's troops on the field of combat ?

[bobwuzhere1224]

Your 3 options are not valid because:

1) Theramore is a human port city, if there were weapons caches, there would only be human weapons of war.

2) there has never been a Silver Covenant in this city, only a few High Elf inhabitants (3 or 4) who were not part of the military forces which defended it.

3) They have their own ships and siege weapons with human architecture. There are only human ballistas in this city.

As I told you during a war, the allies lend their weapons without necessarily participating in them.

Theramore had High Elves.

[Obelisk Kai]

Your 3 options are not valid because:

1) Theramore is a human port city, if there were weapons caches, there would only be human weapons of war.

2) there has never been a Silver Covenant in this city, only a few High Elf inhabitants (3 or 4) who were not part of the military forces which defended it.

3) They have their own ships and siege weapons with human architecture. There are only human ballistas in this city.

As I told you during a war, the allies lend their weapons without necessarily participating in them.

Actually, incorrect.

Theramore was an Alliance city housing refugees from Lordaeron who participated in the climactic battles of the third war. Some survivors from Quel'thalas accompanied Jaina to Kalimdor and settled in the city afterwards. These survivors WERE military, they were represented in warcraft 3 by priest and sorcereress units.

The Alliance also several bases in Kalimdor linked to Theramore such as Honor Stand and Northwatch Hold. This is the reason Garrosh wanted Theramore destroyed, to cut off a major Alliance supply base. Those bases contain stockpiles of Alliance weapons which could have included the ballistas

And yes, MAYBE the Silver Covenant loaned the ballistas to the Alliance. But there are multiple explanations for the presence of those ballistas on the field of battle without it being what you want it to be, proof of the exiles as a major force within the Alliance. Which given they are not that, is impossible.

Hell, it could even be left over gear brought by the Void Elves that they repainted.

- - - Updated - - -

That's funny because Vereesa was already there for the first Siege of Orgrimmar without Alleria. Along with Jaina, she's the only Alliance leader to have participated in both sieges.

Btw, where were Lor'themar's troops on the field of combat ?

You mean, when Dalaran and the Silver Covenant WERE a part of the Alliance?

Which lasted one more year.

Now they aren't.

And again, Lor'themar is a red herring. His troops were still in Naz'jatar if you most know the answer, but the reason we debate this is because you are arguing the Silver Covenant is a dedicated and important part of the Alliance. That is heavily disputed. The Blood Elves being an important part of the Horde is not disputed because they are playable, those what Lor'themar was or wasn't doing is irrelevant. If I were arguing Ogres were an important part of the Horde and you pointed out they are never or rarely seen, then you'd have a comparison.