Official High Elf Discussion Megathread

[elbleuet]

And she was there solely because Sylvanas is her sister. Had there been no familial relationship I doubt Blizzard wouldn't have bothered to bring her into the scenario.

That's funny because Vereesa was already there for the first Siege of Orgrimmar without Alleria. Along with Jaina, she's the only Alliance leader to have participated in both sieges.

Btw, where were Lor'themar's troops on the field of combat ?

[bobwuzhere1224]

Your 3 options are not valid because:

1) Theramore is a human port city, if there were weapons caches, there would only be human weapons of war.

2) there has never been a Silver Covenant in this city, only a few High Elf inhabitants (3 or 4) who were not part of the military forces which defended it.

3) They have their own ships and siege weapons with human architecture. There are only human ballistas in this city.

As I told you during a war, the allies lend their weapons without necessarily participating in them.

Theramore had High Elves.

[Obelisk Kai]

Your 3 options are not valid because:

1) Theramore is a human port city, if there were weapons caches, there would only be human weapons of war.

2) there has never been a Silver Covenant in this city, only a few High Elf inhabitants (3 or 4) who were not part of the military forces which defended it.

3) They have their own ships and siege weapons with human architecture. There are only human ballistas in this city.

As I told you during a war, the allies lend their weapons without necessarily participating in them.

Actually, incorrect.

Theramore was an Alliance city housing refugees from Lordaeron who participated in the climactic battles of the third war. Some survivors from Quel'thalas accompanied Jaina to Kalimdor and settled in the city afterwards. These survivors WERE military, they were represented in warcraft 3 by priest and sorcereress units.

The Alliance also several bases in Kalimdor linked to Theramore such as Honor Stand and Northwatch Hold. This is the reason Garrosh wanted Theramore destroyed, to cut off a major Alliance supply base. Those bases contain stockpiles of Alliance weapons which could have included the ballistas

And yes, MAYBE the Silver Covenant loaned the ballistas to the Alliance. But there are multiple explanations for the presence of those ballistas on the field of battle without it being what you want it to be, proof of the exiles as a major force within the Alliance. Which given they are not that, is impossible.

Hell, it could even be left over gear brought by the Void Elves that they repainted.

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That's funny because Vereesa was already there for the first Siege of Orgrimmar without Alleria. Along with Jaina, she's the only Alliance leader to have participated in both sieges.

Btw, where were Lor'themar's troops on the field of combat ?

You mean, when Dalaran and the Silver Covenant WERE a part of the Alliance?

Which lasted one more year.

Now they aren't.

And again, Lor'themar is a red herring. His troops were still in Naz'jatar if you most know the answer, but the reason we debate this is because you are arguing the Silver Covenant is a dedicated and important part of the Alliance. That is heavily disputed. The Blood Elves being an important part of the Horde is not disputed because they are playable, those what Lor'themar was or wasn't doing is irrelevant. If I were arguing Ogres were an important part of the Horde and you pointed out they are never or rarely seen, then you'd have a comparison.

[FlubberPuddy]

Just because he is clear the Blood Elves are moving in a certain direction, the corollary is not the high elves are going on their own path. The exiles have no path. They have no real future.

If you wish to believe so go ahead. One thing's for sure, the detachment of High Elves from Blood Elves. Since that is what the eye color denotes in particular to Thalassians where it matters. So no blue eyes for Blood Elves means they have no ownership over what occurs to the High Elves on Alliance.

They remain low in number, divided, scattered and degrading and they are still biologically subject to the same Sunwell, which will inevitably scour blue eyes from them in favour of golden in the fullness of time, should any of the few remaining survive long enough.

Can you prove that blue eyes will be scoured to golden over time for them? Every official Blizzard developer response on Golden Eyes for Blood Elves is that the way they're handling it is keeping it to Paladin/Priest/Immensely devoted to Light elves. Hence that's why Blizzard continues to input green eyes onto Blood Elf NPCs.

If Blue eyes were meant to be scoured away they'd actually be showing a bit of that among the High Elves too, which they have not. Ion confirming the blue eyes are for NPCs, textures which were just recently added, goes against your notion.

If your hypothesis were true, they wouldn't keep creating new eye textures reinforcing the blue for High Elves.

So please provide evidence that High Elves will end up with Golden Eyes as well.

[elbleuet]

Actually, incorrect.

Theramore was an Alliance city housing refugees from Lordaeron who participated in the climactic battles of the third war. Some survivors from Quel'thalas accompanied Jaina to Kalimdor and settled in the city afterwards. These survivors WERE military, they were represented in warcraft 3 by priest and sorcereress units.

The Alliance also several bases in Kalimdor linked to Theramore such as Honor Stand and Northwatch Hold. This is the reason Garrosh wanted Theramore destroyed, to cut off a major Alliance supply base. Those bases contain stockpiles of Alliance weapons which could have included the ballistas

And yes, MAYBE the Silver Covenant loaned the ballistas to the Alliance. But there are multiple explanations for the presence of those ballistas on the field of battle without it being what you want it to be, proof of the exiles as a major force within the Alliance. Which given they are not that, is impossible.

Hell, it could even be left over gear brought by the Void Elves that they repainted.

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You mean, when Dalaran and the Silver Covenant WERE a part of the Alliance?

Which lasted one more year.

Now they aren't.

And again, Lor'themar is a red herring. His troops were still in Naz'jatar if you most know the answer, but the reason we debate this is because you are arguing the Silver Covenant is a dedicated and important part of the Alliance. That is heavily disputed. The Blood Elves being an important part of the Horde is not disputed because they are playable, those what Lor'themar was or wasn't doing is irrelevant. If I were arguing Ogres were an important part of the Horde and you pointed out they are never or rarely seen, then you'd have a comparison.

Dalaran is still an Alliance city led by an Alliance character, neutral to the Horde. You have no power in the city.
We're just tolerating you for the greater good and also because Blizzard is too lazy to give you a proper capital. So that argument is kind of wrong.

I didn't say the Silver Covenant was an IMPORTANT part of the Alliance. I said high elves were. Not as important as the main Alliance races, but still.

And yeah, what's Lor'Themar doing IS relevant when you're saying Vereesa isn't an important character.

[Frenchvince]

Actually, incorrect.

Theramore was an Alliance city housing refugees from Lordaeron who participated in the climactic battles of the third war. Some survivors from Quel'thalas accompanied Jaina to Kalimdor and settled in the city afterwards. These survivors WERE military, they were represented in warcraft 3 by priest and sorcereress units.

The Alliance also several bases in Kalimdor linked to Theramore such as Honor Stand and Northwatch Hold. This is the reason Garrosh wanted Theramore destroyed, to cut off a major Alliance supply base. Those bases contain stockpiles of Alliance weapons which could have included the ballistas

And yes, MAYBE the Silver Covenant loaned the ballistas to the Alliance. But there are multiple explanations for the presence of those ballistas on the field of battle without it being what you want it to be, proof of the exiles as a major force within the Alliance. Which given they are not that, is impossible.

Hell, it could even be left over gear brought by the Void Elves that they repainted.

Civilians whose high elves were evacuated by ship before the mana bomb exploded on Theramore.
I did the scenario Theramore's Fall horde and alliance, and there was no army of the Silver Covenant or High-elf who came to block my way or to help me.

Vereesa has loaned ballists to the alliance for the 4th war for material support.

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So please provide evidence that High Elves will end up with Golden Eyes as well.

The eyes are something that differentiates them but the high elves should also have black skins.

[Ardenaso]

Dalaran is still an Alliance city led by an Alliance character, neutral to the Horde. You have no power in the city.
We're just tolerating you for the greater good and also because Blizzard is too lazy to give you a proper capital. So that argument is kind of wrong.

We all know that the Alliance of Lordaeron is the same as the Alliance but Khadgar never (re)pledged to the current Alliance. He respects that the Blood Elves and Forsaken were part of the Alliance of Lordaeron so he also respects them as members of the neutral Kirin Tor

edit: (re)pledged

[elbleuet]

We all know that the Alliance of Lordaeron is the same as the Alliance but Khadgar never (re)pledged to the current Alliance. He respects that the Blood Elves and Forsaken were part of the Alliance of Lordaeron so he also respects them as members of the neutral Kirin Tor

edit: (re)pledged

This was also the case for Alleria and Turalyon. Alleria was seen defending the Alliance armies in Lordaeron and Turalyon defending Stromgarde.

Also : https://twitter.com/DaveKosak/status/492025336867979264

That's all I'm basically saying.

Whatever happens, Dalaran will always choose the Alliance.

[FlubberPuddy]

This was also the case for Alleria and Turalyon. Alleria was seen defending the Alliance armies in Lordaeron and Turalyon defending Stromgarde.

Also : https://twitter.com/DaveKosak/status/492025336867979264

That's all I'm basically saying.

Whatever happens, Dalaran will always choose the Alliance.

Oh hell yeah!! For the Alliance

[delus]

And yet they are putting the resources into updating high elf npcs. Clearly they don't agree with you.

[Ardenaso]

This was also the case for Alleria and Turalyon. Alleria was seen defending the Alliance armies in Lordaeron and Turalyon defending Stromgarde.

Also : https://twitter.com/DaveKosak/status/492025336867979264

Fair enough. Didn't know that actually until now

Also, since Alleria and Turalyon fought for the Alliance in BFA, of course they re-pledged on the new Alliance during the time gap of Legion and BFA. I find it hard to believe for Khadgar otherwise since I don't see any hint or implication other than probably helping his immediate comrades at the last resort.

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And yet they are putting the resources into updating high elves. Clearly they don't agree with you.

Got any links for that? I know I found some somewhere but I can't google them, it's for this guy ↓

Really ? I haven't seen the quotes, do you have a link, per chance ?

[Uthan]

The eyes are something that differentiates them but the high elves should also have black skins.

Depends on if the darker skins are an original, natural skin colour variation or something induced by the mild fel corruption in Blood Elves (since the Felblood Elves were the only ones showed with darker skin before there might be a correlation).


As for Dalaran, it has been Alliance aligned for 3 and a half out of the 8 expansions (counting vanilla as one) so far, and wouldn't be weird at all if it realigned itself that way again when push comes to shove. And seeing as the Horde has 2 large centers of magic in Silvermoon and Suramar already, having the only center of magic the Alliance has access to be neutral feels kind of crappy.

[Frenchvince]

Depends on if the darker skins are an original, natural skin colour variation or something induced by the mild fel corruption in Blood Elves (since the Felblood Elves were the only ones showed with darker skin before there might be a correlation).

The customization options have no explanation, they are just available.
So we will never know.

[delus]

Fair enough. Didn't know that actually until now

Also, since Alleria and Turalyon fought for the Alliance in BFA, of course they re-pledged on the new Alliance during the time gap of Legion and BFA. I find it hard to believe for Khadgar otherwise since I don't see any hint or implication other than probably helping his immediate comrades at the last resort.

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Got any links for that? I know I found some somewhere but I can't google them, it's for this guy ↓

It's in the ion interview where he stated the blue eyes were for npcs.

[Ardenaso]

It's in the ion interview where he stated the blue eyes were for npcs.

oh, I thought you were referring to the datamined quests/updates for the Silver Covenant NPCs like that quartermaster

[delus]

oh, I thought you were referring to the datamined quests/updates for the Silver Covenant NPCs like that quartermaster

No I was referring to the assertion that high elves were connected to the sunwell and evolving in the same way as blood elves.

[Broflake]

I see you are really bad at lore. All of the races I listed are highborne. They even refer about themselves as such.

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Exactly. However, it appears to be not explicit enough for some people.

The blood of the highborne cry is meant to harken to their ancestry, since the highborne is from whom they evolved after their exile.
The highborne themselves, however, are classified as night elves per lore and all literature.
Given that war of the ancients, chronicles, and numerous other literature explicitly state that the highborne are a social caste of Night elves,.
You should not be claiming whether someone is bad at lore when you clearly lack an understanding of the story that has been written.

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The customization options have no explanation, they are just available.
So we will never know.

There is literally a dark skin high elf in the twilight of the aspects story. Like...come on guys.
Fel has nothing to do with it.

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This was also the case for Alleria and Turalyon. Alleria was seen defending the Alliance armies in Lordaeron and Turalyon defending Stromgarde.

Also : https://twitter.com/DaveKosak/status/492025336867979264

That's all I'm basically saying.

Whatever happens, Dalaran will always choose the Alliance.

A comment about Khadgar's character in 2014 when Legion was released in 2016 with the story indicating how he will no longer take sides.
Come on now guys. You're reaching with out dated material to justify view no longer supported.
Dalaran always chooses alliance right?
Which is why when there was a choice, they didn't make a choice. Don't you think thats a contradiction to your ideas?

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No I was referring to the assertion that high elves were connected to the sunwell and evolving in the same way as blood elves.

They are dude.
Why would the high elves, who are the EXACT same race as the blood elves...be affected differently?

[FlubberPuddy]

Come on now guys. You're reaching with out dated material to justify view no longer supported.

Sounds like folks who have used Caydiem's comment on High Elves/Metzen's comments on Blood Elves/Warcraft Encyclopedia snippets when all things were said before Wrath of the Lich King introduced a lot of High Elves with their own organization (the Silver Covenant).

I agree, people shouldn't be using outdated material like that to justify a view no longer supported.

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The eyes are something that differentiates them but the high elves should also have black skins.

Love these A LOT for High Elves customization. Artist is very talented!

[Broflake]

Sounds like folks who have used Caydiem's comment on High Elves/Metzen's comments on Blood Elves/Warcraft Encyclopedia snippets when all things were said before Wrath of the Lich King introduced a lot of High Elves with their own organization (the Silver Covenant).

I agree, people shouldn't be using outdated material like that to justify a view no longer supported.

Pennem, I am unsure as to why you wish to play this double standard.
High elves are our blood elves =/= contradicted.
High elves lacking a unified group = still true.
The silver covenant is a military faction of high elves, they're not a representation of a unified people in the same vein as Stormwin
You also can't say "a lot" because we don't know the numbers, but we know at the very least they are certainly far from making up a chunk of the 10% as they've never fielded a substantial military force without kirin tor assistance.

Your tongue in cheek comment doesn't really work, because unlike the 2014 statement about Khadgar which is contradicted by later lore, the comments about blood elves and high elves have largely been reinforced.
High elves still arent playable, and most likely never will be given the existence of Void elves.

Now, if there are contradictions, feel free to point them out, otherwise you're just making a nebulous claim for the sake of saying "well someone else did it too.".

Love these A LOT for High Elves customization. Artist is very talented!

They're literally just blood elves with blue eyes bud.

[FlubberPuddy]

They're literally just blood elves with blue eyes bud.

I don't think you're using literally correctly. A High Elf is not 'literally' a Blood Elf. The blue eyes are the visual distinction. There are other distinctions as well.