Official High Elf Discussion Megathread

[elbleuet]

A comment about Khadgar's character in 2014 when Legion was released in 2016 with the story indicating how he will no longer take sides.

Still accurate. Khadgar is still an Alliance character. See his bio : https://wow.gamepedia.com/Khadgar

The ultimate visual guide, released in 2016 (1 month beforte Legion) says Khadgar is an Alliance character.

You're wrong, sorry.

Which is why when there was a choice, they didn't make a choice. Don't you think thats a contradiction to your ideas?

There was no choice. Dalaran wasn't involved in BFA because Dalaran was the capital for 2 expansions.

[Broflake]

I don't think you're using literally correctly.

You would be wrong unfortunately

A High Elf is not 'literally' a Blood Elf. The blue eyes are the visual distinction. There are other distinctions as well.

You do realize there are plenty of blood elves with blue eyes yes?
You also realize that an eye color difference doesn't mean anything.
Your claim is akin to saying two people who are Egyptian, are clearly, not literally Egyptians, because one has blue eyes.

- - - Updated - - -

Still accurate. Khadgar is still an Alliance character. See his bio : https://wow.gamepedia.com/Khadgar

The ultimate visual guide, released in 2016 (1 month beforte Legion) says Khadgar is an Alliance character.

You're wrong, sorry.

You do realize you did absolutely nothing to refute my statement and only served to strength it.
I claimed, it is outdated information, and that Khadgar in Legion represents his current views, which is neutrality.
You counter, and bring up information that is still outdated, and then declare this proves me wrong.
Do realize that does not make logical sense.

There was no choice. Dalaran wasn't involved in BFA because Dalaran was the capital for 2 expansions.

You aren't a dev, you really can not make such an argument.
Even then, it is quite clear that the leader of the kirin tor who refuses to take sides, is clearly making it so Dalaran is not taking sides.
Otherwise, nothing would have stoppd the devs from putting Silver covenant and kirin tor NPC's in.
Your suggestion is just not supported bud.

[FlubberPuddy]

You would be wrong unfortunately

Don't believe so, but you do you.

You do realize there are plenty of blood elves with blue eyes yes?

A side effect of internally labeling the files used for High Elves under blood elf organization. The same file organization led to the speculation that blue eyes would be coming to blood elves. We already know what happened there.

You also realize that an eye color difference doesn't mean anything.

Untrue, as Ion's comment shows eye color does have meaning for Thalassians, High Elves and Blood Elves included.

Your claim is akin to saying two people who are Egyptian, are clearly, not literally Egyptians, because one has blue eyes.

Blood elf is not a race. High Elf is. You saying those High Elves in the art are "literally blood elves with blue eyes" is incorrect because Blood Elf denotes a specific group of high elves/thalassians.

My claim is when someone calls characters High Elves they are High Elves because not every High Elf is a Blood Elf, but every Blood Elf is of the high elf race. The direction goes only one way.

But you're very familiar with this as you spend a lot of time in the conversation on official forums (I recognize your name), just like Starla.

You can go ahead and continue your pedantry, I've said my piece.

[elbleuet]

You do realize you did absolutely nothing to refute my statement and only served to strength it.
I claimed, it is outdated information, and that Khadgar in Legion represents his current views, which is neutrality.
You counter, and bring up information that is still outdated, and then declare this proves me wrong.
Do realize that does not make logical sense.



You aren't a dev, you really can not make such an argument.
Even then, it is quite clear that the leader of the kirin tor who refuses to take sides, is clearly making it so Dalaran is not taking sides.
Otherwise, nothing would have stoppd the devs from putting Silver covenant and kirin tor NPC's in.
Your suggestion is just not supported bud.

It isn't. You just disagree with that claiming that is it outdated where it isn't. The Ultimate visual guide is clear. You have 0 argument.

You aren't a dev, you really can not make such an argument.
Even then, it is quite clear that the leader of the kirin tor who refuses to take sides, is clearly making it so Dalaran is not taking sides.
Otherwise, nothing would have stoppd the devs from putting Silver covenant and kirin tor NPC's in.
Your suggestion is just not supported bud.

You aren't too.
https://wow.gamepedia.com/Khadgar
https://wow.gamepedia.com/World_of_W...d_and_Expanded
Have a good read bud !

[FlubberPuddy]

And in general I want to say that people have gotten excited about orc posture options, dwarves with tattoos (wildhammer), forsaken with no bones, more troll skins, more orc/dwarf/elf/gnome/human/tauren/draenei skins. People have gotten excited over separation of eye color from face, having a variety of all these little options.

So simply trying to appear as if a minor difference doesn't matter is completely wrong. People are currently getting exciting over lots of minor adjustments to character customization.

Because the sum of all those "minor differences" parts is what adds up to a unique whole.

- - - Updated - - -

You aren't too.
https://wow.gamepedia.com/Khadgar
https://wow.gamepedia.com/World_of_W...d_and_Expanded
Have a good read bud !

Good stuff, lemme link additional reading resources too https://wow.gamepedia.com/High_elf should be helpful.

[Broflake]

Don't believe so, but you do you.

You're trying to argue that the 9, between a 10 and an 8, is a 6. It isn't bud.

A side effect of internally labeling the files used for High Elves under blood elf organization. The same file organization led to the speculation that blue eyes would be coming to blood elves. We already know what happened there.

Except for the fact that it was intentionally designed this way despite numerous bug reports, and dev commentary points out its intention. So...agai, using game file labeling doesn't work. Its...pretty much the opposite because its pointing out that coding means anything to lore...which it doesnt.

Untrue, as Ion's comment shows eye color does have meaning for Thalassians, High Elves and Blood Elves included.

High elves = the past.
Blood elves = their future.

Ion's comment is in reference to this design, but is not a point about them no longer being the same race which is different subject.

Blood elf is not a race. High Elf is.

High elf is no longer a race since WC3. It is a reference to a political position.
Thalassian elf is the entire race itself.

You saying those High Elves in the art are "literally blood elves with blue eyes" is incorrect because Blood Elf denotes a specific group of high elves/thalassians.

It is correct, because characters such as Lanesh the steelweaver who is a blood elf with blue eyes is a blood elf with blue eyes. You wish to be in denial of what is in front of you doesn't mean anything.

My claim is when someone calls characters High Elves they are High Elves because not every High Elf is a Blood Elf, but every Blood Elf is of the high elf race. The direction goes only one way.

That logic does not work, and I am not sure why you and others continuously push it.
High elf is not a classification of race, it is a classification of political stance.
So no...the statement of , all blood elves are high elves, doesn't work.
I mean...making such a statement contradicts what you stated earlier, because if blood elves are high elves, then its literally just a blood elf with blue eyes anyway as I stated.

But you're very familiar with this as you spend a lot of time in the conversation on official forums (I recognize your name), just like Starla.

Cool, always nice to have a fan.
I have no idea who you are though, and I am not petty enough to allow such a thing to influence my discussion arguments.

You can go ahead and continue your pedantry, I've said my piece.

I apologize we could not come to an agreement, but you are unsupported in your view bud.
The art is neat though

[baskev]

Void Elves were here. And Blizzard couldn't have them upstaged by the Silver Covenant I guess. I suspect until very recently, they really wanted to kill the High Elves demands and believed that the Void Elves would do the trick.

Yup, i agree. I think it was there way of making us shut up. But instead of giving us void elves that where close to high elves and look like them.
They gave us smurf/emo blood elves. With whats only to described as a permanent priest void form.....and has been proven in game , that animals etc can also become void. Ergo not a species but a affliaction or class.

[matrix123mko]

The blood of the highborne cry is meant to harken to their ancestry, since the highborne is from whom they evolved after their exile.
The highborne themselves, however, are classified as night elves per lore and all literature.
Given that war of the ancients, chronicles, and numerous other literature explicitly state that the highborne are a social caste of Night elves,.
You should not be claiming whether someone is bad at lore when you clearly lack an understanding of the story that has been written.

If they are Quel'dorei, they are highborne. Contrary to popular headcanon of Alliance players, purple skin isn't required to be part of higher caste of elves. Do you think that Dath'remar stopped being highborne at the moment when he became pink?

[Obelisk Kai]

If you wish to believe so go ahead. One thing's for sure, the detachment of High Elves from Blood Elves. Since that is what the eye color denotes in particular to Thalassians where it matters. So no blue eyes for Blood Elves means they have no ownership over what occurs to the High Elves on Alliance.

No, that is not for sure at all. That is your interpretation of what was said. What I heard didn't even mention the high elves once. What I heard was that the Blood Elves have left the blue eyes behind, which they have as a result of their circumstances. But nowhere did Ion confirm that it was meant to detach the exiles from the Blood Elves on a biological level. Indeed, as all non Void Elf thalassian elves are bound to the Sunwell, the exiles are likely in the process of beginning to leave the blue eyes behind themselves.

Can you prove that blue eyes will be scoured to golden over time for them? Every official Blizzard developer response on Golden Eyes for Blood Elves is that the way they're handling it is keeping it to Paladin/Priest/Immensely devoted to Light elves. Hence that's why Blizzard continues to input green eyes onto Blood Elf NPCs.

Firstly, blood elves and the exiles are the same race so they would respond to the same stimuli the same way. Blue eyes were a byproduct of a purely arcane sunwell. Now that they all feed on a predominantly light sunwell, some have begun to manifest golden eyes if they are devoted to the light. These individuals are 'ahead of the curve' so to speak, they have already lost the green glint. Under the principles that gave them blue eyes in the first place, feeding on a light based energy source will inevitably cause a final shift in their eye colour towards the gold in all circumstances.

But rest assured, the time frame for this is probably longer than World of Warcraft will cover. Mostly to allow people who wish to choose between green and golden eyes on their playable blood elf without having to be forced to pick only golden. But the end result is not the point. The point is that as members of the same race subject to the same external forces, they will inevitably react the same way. So long as the Sunwell exists, all who are connected to it share the same destiny.

If Blue eyes were meant to be scoured away they'd actually be showing a bit of that among the High Elves too, which they have not. Ion confirming the blue eyes are for NPCs, textures which were just recently added, goes against your notion.

If your hypothesis were true, they wouldn't keep creating new eye textures reinforcing the blue for High Elves.

So please provide evidence that High Elves will end up with Golden Eyes as well.

The vast majority of Blood Elves are keeping the green eyes and will for the remainder of WoW's lifespan. And frankly there are probably too few exiles left for their to be many cases of Priests and Paladins among them who would be receving golden eyes. Most of them probably got the business end of a mana bomb. The vast majority of the remaining exiles are hunters (former farstriders) and Mages (aligned with the Kirin Tor) so not many among them who will be offering sincere devotion to the light.

The point of course is not that the change will come today, or tomorrow, or next year, or next expansion. The point is that it will come, as Blood Elves and the exiles remain biologically identical.

In fact the only thing in your statement there that is at all agreeable is that the blue eyes are intended for npcs. I can agree with that. A sad waste of a good eye colour to be so limited but alas, it is what it is.

[Broflake]

It isn't. You just disagree with that claiming that is it outdated where it isn't. The Ultimate visual guide is clear. You have 0 argument.

If Legion, where Khadgar goes neutral, comes after the UVG, how is it outdated when the UVG came out BEFORE it? This shouldn't even be an argument. Stuff from the past gets overruled by later stuff. It happens all the time.
Read your dates you acnowledged.

[FlubberPuddy]

I am not petty enough to allow such a thing to influence my discussion arguments.

Petty enough to make a comment like "that's just a blue eyed blood elf" days after Ion stated "it doesn't make sense for how they've evolved."

Future doesn't look great for Lanesh, let's see if anything happens with him. It's just like most anti-helfers rushing to demand High Elves get Golden Eyes because they're not gonna get Blue Eyes for Blood Elves. That's petty.

- - - Updated - - -

In fact the only thing in your statement there that is at all agreeable is that the blue eyes are intended for npcs. I can agree with that. A sad waste of a good eye colour to be so limited but alas, it is what it is.

Makes sense to say it's only for NPCs because High Elves, the "blood elves with blue eyes" to some here, aren't currently playable.

Wouldn't be any different than if he said a newfound datamining of red skin for Draenei isn't for player characters and just NPCs.

[Broflake]

Petty enough to make a comment like "that's just a blue eyed blood elf" days after Ion stated "it doesn't make sense for how they've evolved."

Future doesn't look great for Lanesh, let's see if anything happens with him.

Dev said its intentional, no change planned.
Sorry bud.

[FlubberPuddy]

Dev said its intentional, no change planned.
Sorry bud.

I'm actually happy they're not giving Blood Elves an eye color that doesn't make sense for them. Nothing to be sorry about.

[Obelisk Kai]

Dalaran is still an Alliance city led by an Alliance character, neutral to the Horde. You have no power in the city.
We're just tolerating you for the greater good and also because Blizzard is too lazy to give you a proper capital. So that argument is kind of wrong.

No, Dalaran is not an Alliance city. Dalaran is a neutral state. It may have Alliance leanings, but there is a world of difference between having sympathies for a side and being a part of that side.

Dalaran took no part in the Fourth War. Dalaran did not aid the Alliance. Dalaran was, as it was before the Pandaria campaign, neutral.

Were you correct in this, Varian wouldn't have gone to so much bother to try and bring Dalaran back into the Alliance in the first place. It is impossible to bring back what never left. Dalaran left the Alliance again at the beginning of Legion so as to be a neutral hub for both Horde and Alliance in the war against the Legion. And the leader of the Kirin Tor, who had fought beside too many heroes of the Horde, could not bring himself to commit either himself or his city to another bout of intra-faction warfare.

I didn't say the Silver Covenant was an IMPORTANT part of the Alliance. I said high elves were. Not as important as the main Alliance races, but still.

No, they aren't. They are a nearly extinct group of exiles scattered across the world. The largest organisation of high elves lives in a neutral city after all. And that city, and that organisation, sat out the Fourth War entirely. The Ankoan did more for the Alliance cause in the Fourth War than the exiles did, and the Alliance only met them in one zone.

And yeah, what's Lor'Themar doing IS relevant when you're saying Vereesa isn't an important character.

This is simple point so I am mystified you keep missing it. As above, you are arguing that the 'high elves' are an important Alliance race. To which, of course, the appropriate question has been to ask you to prove it. So far nobody has satisfactorily answered the question given the glaring fact that this 'important' alliance race essentially sat on it's hands for the entire Fourth War. The obvious conclusion being that they aren't an important Alliance race at all. Sure, SOME individuals within the Alliance are high elves and sure, they do serve the Alliance well, but to argue that the high elves are an important Alliance race based on the actions of a few individuals is as plausible as someone arguing the Nathrezim are an important Alliance because Lothraxion is a member of the army of the light.

It is up to those who argue the exiles are important to actually justify that statement, which isn't really possible because they aren't. The Blood Elves don't need to justify their importance. The mere fact they are playable with a leader in the highest councils of the Horde is enough.

- - - Updated - - -

Makes sense to say it's only for NPCs because High Elves, the "blood elves with blue eyes" to some here, aren't currently playable.

Wouldn't be any different than if he said a newfound datamining of red skin for Draenei isn't for player characters and just NPCs.

Indeed. Eredar almost certainly aren't going to be playable either so there is a symmetry between those two.

[Broflake]

I'm actually happy they're not giving Blood Elves an eye color that doesn't make sense for them. Nothing to be sorry about.

Congrats? I am not fussed about eye color as much as you

[Obelisk Kai]

Civilians whose high elves were evacuated by ship before the mana bomb exploded on Theramore.
I did the scenario Theramore's Fall horde and alliance, and there was no army of the Silver Covenant or High-elf who came to block my way or to help me.

You also didn't see the majority of the NPCs who died in the event either but who were canonically there. Check the list on wowpedia, plenty of famous names.

And the idea that they would have been evacuated as civilians is laughable, they were former soliders.

Of course, that does leave open the possibility they perished due to withdrawal from magic. They weren't feeding on the fel AND they weren't in Dalaran or close to Dalaran so they were unable to get easy access to the arcane artifacts the exiles used. So they could have all died long before Theramore fell, and left the ballistas behind.

Call that another possiblity.

Vereesa has loaned ballists to the alliance for the 4th war for material support.

Can you prove it though? Absolutely, unequivocally and with certainty that is why they were there and none of the other highly plausible explanations?

[FlubberPuddy]

Eredar almost certainly aren't going to be playable either so there is a symmetry between those two.

Eredar is the name of the race. All Draenei are Eredar already.

https://wow.gamepedia.com/Eredar

"This article is about the eredar lore and the demonic eredar. For the eredar that escaped Argus, see Draenei. For the other subspecies, see Lightforged draenei, Broken and Lost One."

As noted there, "subspecies" being things like Lightforged Draenei, Broken, and Lost One. Lightforged Draenei are a subspecies that happen to be playable.

High Elves can be considered a "subspecies" or more appropriately a sub-faction. As Ornyx noted subfactions of a race are what we actually play and not an entire race as a whole.

High Elves just happen to have the same subfaction name as their race (high elf), which can make it confusing for some as has been shown for some time now. That's why it's probably better to start referring to them as Thalassians, the name of their race in their native language.

The High Elf subfaction/"subspecies" therefore does have a possibility of happening. As has been noted by the developers themselves. Dunno about Red Eredar though, as the developers haven't commented on them in any capacity at all as far as I can recall.

[Broflake]

High Elves can be considered a "subspecies" or more appropriately a sub-faction. As Ornyx noted subfactions of a race are what we actually play and not an entire race as a whole.

Which is a testament of lore, not game design. Otherwise, they wouldn't have chosen void elves over high elves .
The devs clearly wish to preserve faction identity, its not going to happen.

[Obelisk Kai]

Eredar is the name of the race. All Draenei are Eredar already.

https://wow.gamepedia.com/Eredar

"This article is about the eredar lore and the demonic eredar. For the eredar that escaped Argus, see Draenei. For the other subspecies, see Lightforged draenei, Broken and Lost One."

As noted there, "subspecies" being things like Lightforged Draenei, Broken, and Lost One. Lightforged Draenei are a subspecies that happen to be playable.

High Elves can be considered a "subspecies" or more appropriately a sub-faction. As Ornyx noted subfactions of a race are what we actually play and not an entire race as a whole.

High Elves just happen to have the same subfaction name as their race (high elf), which can make it confusing for some as has been shown for some time now. That's why it's probably better to start referring to them as Thalassians, the name of their race in their native language.

The High Elf subfaction/"subspecies" therefore does have a possibility of happening. As has been noted by the developers themselves. Dunno about Red Eredar though, as the developers haven't commented on them in any capacity at all as far as I can recall.

Most Eredar are demons. Uncorrupted Eredar now call themselves Draenei. Eredar will not be playable because they are demons and inconsistent with the lore.

High Elven exiles are not a sub-species. They are identical to the already playable Blood Elves. This is why they weren't made playable.

Void Elves are a sub-species of Blood Elf, there was a genuine material change in their biology that differentiated them from Blood/high elves.

The exiles do not have a realistic possibility of happening. They were ruled out on the grounds of faction diversity and the fact the race they represent is already playable. You 'think' the developers reversed course, but it is also easily demonstrable you are innately hypocritical with developer statements, focusing on small parts out of context to fundamentally twist the meaning of what was said when you disagree...and agreeing wholeheartedly and declaring it gospel when you do agree.

[Frenchvince]

You also didn't see the majority of the NPCs who died in the event either but who were canonically there. Check the list on wowpedia, plenty of famous names.

And the idea that they would have been evacuated as civilians is laughable, they were former soliders.

Of course, that does leave open the possibility they perished due to withdrawal from magic. They weren't feeding on the fel AND they weren't in Dalaran or close to Dalaran so they were unable to get easy access to the arcane artifacts the exiles used. So they could have all died long before Theramore fell, and left the ballistas behind.

Call that another possiblity.



Can you prove it though? Absolutely, unequivocally and with certainty that is why they were there and none of the other highly plausible explanations?

There is no need to look far, the high elves participated in this 4th war by loaning ballistas and their leader had his own mission with his sister.
Even the gnomes were there with their weapons of war while their leader was absent.
The blood elves were not there, not one of their ballists on the battlefield, they are never there in the important moments, even in the kinematics of BFA they are absent while there is a portal not far.