Official High Elf Discussion Megathread

[Obelisk Kai]

There is no need to look far, the high elves participated in this 4th war by loaning ballistas and their leader had his own mission with his sister.
Even the gnomes were there with their weapons of war while their leader was absent.
The blood elves were not there, not one of their ballists on the battlefield, they are never there in the important moments, even in the kinematics of BFA they are absent while there is a portal not far.

Blood Elven forces were common throughout the Fourth War. As I said, their importance doesn't need to be justified.

It would be difficult for the Gnomish leader to be on the battleground considering he was in stasis by the way...but his people were there and they definitely had an impact.

And I note you actually can't prove that the ballistas definitely, one hundred percent came from the Silver Covenant. As such all you have is a theory with flimsy evidence. I have three or four theories, all with similarly flimsy evidence, but all of mine explain why there may have been ballistas but there were no exiles. Even one standing next to the ballista would have been proof. Zero though? Guess they forgot they were an important part of the alliance...

[Frenchvince]

Blood Elven forces were common throughout the Fourth War. As I said, their importance doesn't need to be justified.

It would be difficult for the Gnomish leader to be on the battleground considering he was in stasis by the way...but his people were there and they definitely had an impact.

And I note you actually can't prove that the ballistas definitely, one hundred percent came from the Silver Covenant. As such all you have is a theory with flimsy evidence. I have three or four theories, all with similarly flimsy evidence, but all of mine explain why there may have been ballistas but there were no exiles. Even one standing next to the ballista would have been proof. Zero though? Guess they forgot they were an important part of the alliance...

And you too can't prove that these ballists are from Theramore, a human city above all.
As I told you, there has never been a High Elf army, Silver Covenant, just High Elf civilians or a master mage.
If you are going to take a ride to Theramore, there are only human ballistas.

What people are trying to explain to you is that even if the high elves are not a playable race, they participate in wars or others, they are still in the history of the alliance from near or far ( BFA was from afar, there was the integration of the void elves ).
This is why it is a big request so that they become a playable race or a customizations.

No need to have more explanations or to derail the discussions ...

[Traveler Voltin]

Silver Covenant is more like a militia

[Broflake]

I'm actually happy they're not giving Blood Elves an eye color that doesn't make sense for them. Nothing to be sorry about.

Where did you get that, from my point about Lannesh?
I am happy no high elves bud. It would be bad for the game.

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If they are Quel'dorei, they are highborne. Contrary to popular headcanon of Alliance players, purple skin isn't required to be part of higher caste of elves. Do you think that Dath'remar stopped being highborne at the moment when he became pink?

Congrats, you're the first person that hasn't assumed I am a Horde player, but you're still misguided in your interpretation.
A highborne is someone who belongs to the higher caste of **Night elves**.
When Dathremar stopped being a night elf, all he could claim was the heritage.
You insisting all other elves being highborne, despite all the literature defining the highborne as "the elite caste of night elves", is just incorrect.

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And you too can't prove that these ballists are from Theramore, a human city above all.
As I told you, there has never been a High Elf army, Silver Covenant, just High Elf civilians or a master mage.
If you are going to take a ride to Theramore, there are only human ballistas.

What people are trying to explain to you is that even if the high elves are not a playable race, they participate in wars or others, they are still in the history of the alliance from near or far ( BFA was from afar, there was the integration of the void elves ).
This is why it is a big request so that they become a playable race or a customizations.

No need to have more explanations or to derail the discussions ...

Except that the Silver covenant didn't participate in the faction war. IN your focus on the ballista and going "THERE THEY ARE FOR THE ALLIANCE" you are forgetting the circumstances in which they appear.
It is when the Alliance AND separatist horde seek to oust Sylvanas that they appeared.
They had absolutely no involvement in the actual fourth war.

[Strippling]

I'm actually happy they're not giving Blood Elves an eye color that doesn't make sense for them. Nothing to be sorry about.

How does it make you feel that void elves will not likely get skin and hair colors that don't make sense for them? Or is there double standards involved on your part?

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There is no need to look far, the high elves participated in this 4th war by loaning ballistas and their leader had his own mission with his sister.
Even the gnomes were there with their weapons of war while their leader was absent.
The blood elves were not there, not one of their ballists on the battlefield, they are never there in the important moments, even in the kinematics of BFA they are absent while there is a portal not far.

A goblin in the SI7 did more for the alliance than all the alliance high elves combined.

And the blood elves have been present throughout the expansion, from the war campaign to nazjatar. They've been involved with quest giving and story, they're in cinematics, etc.

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Well almost all interactions with the Silver Covenant have taken place in relation to Dalaran.

The Silver Covenant, or what's left of them (there have been several brutal conflicts recently after all and they were described as near dead BEFORE the campaign against the Lich King, the Pandaria conflict and the Third invasion of the Burning Legion so there's bound to have been a winnowing), still live in Dalaran as the Three Sisters comic confirms.

Dalaran didn't take a side in the Fourth War.

That the Silver Covenant didn't participate in the war because of Dalaran's neutrality is the likeliest explanation by far. But IF the Silver Covenant valued their place in Dalaran (now a neutral city) over their alleged devotion to the Alliance, then that leads to only one conclusion. That their supposed 'devotion' to the Alliance isn't as important a factor as certain people have made out.

After all, when push came to shove, you could count the number of exiles who actively helped the Alliance during the fourth war on one hand. And only one of them did any fighting.

From what the fourth war has shown us, the silver covenant are most definitely a unit of Kirin Tor and not the Alliance. They have in the past aided the alliance on behalf of the Kirin Tor, but it's very clear where their allegiances lie first and foremost.

And I see after Ion's comments certain high elfers in this thread have grown "big heads". It's funny cause we're still where we were at the very start of this thread... high elves on the alliance still are not playable, blizzard are still standing strong on their views of factions remaining separate and distinct, void elves have evolved and as such it wouldn't make sense for them to have light skin and hair colors, and to this day the statement "blood elves are our high elves" is still true, as blizzard have yet to put out a statement that says otherwise. If blizzard wish to keep a distinction of eye color then that's fine, but I'm just glad that they still see blood elves as the legacy and continuation of the high elf race. The blood elf heritage questline even reinforces this idea, with the statement "the last act of the high elves"... suggesting that the high elf people forged a new path from that moment onwards and that the legacy of the high elves lives on through the blood elves. The blood elves are the definition of the high elf race. The exiles are a bygone, and are dissipating into human society.

[Odintdk]

Good stuff, lemme link additional reading resources too https://wow.gamepedia.com/High_elf should be helpful.

Are you actually even reading your own link? Much of the the content of this one you just linked, don't really help your "cause" here. A few examples from your own link:

"When Quel'Thalas left the Alliance, some high elves chose to remain with their allies over their kingdom, and to this day still support the Alliance.[7] Some high elves were exiled from Quel'Thalas after the Third War.[11] Other high elf remnants have chosen to rejoin the Alliance in recent years, arriving to a cold reception.[2] Modern high elves are a rare sight, and are commonly mistaken for blood elves.[12][13] In consequence, there are very few high elves left on Azeroth today. High elves did not gather in any significant numbers and are a very small group of individuals. Indeed, modern high elves cannot even truly be said to have a culture—only a past filled with glory and regret.[2]

As a people, the high elves are all but extinct: the remnants of the remnants of a fallen race.[14] Though without any official leader, Vereesa Windrunner leads one of the few organized high elf collaborations, the Silver Covenant, as its self-styled Ranger General. Auric Sunchaser, a captain of the remnants of Alleria's ranger cadre found in Terokkar Forest, serves as the high elven representative at the restored Sunwell in modern Quel'Thalas."

It's kinda funny not gonna lie.

[FlubberPuddy]

It's kinda funny not gonna lie.

The funny thing is after Ion's comment on no blue eyed blood elves it's driven a lot of people against alliance getting playable high elves to a new level of pedantry. Not sure what the aim is anymore for those people.

It's like when people use that phrase, "this fog is so thick I can cut it with a knife". Same thing here.

[TorAndre]

I think the difference between Blood Elves and High Elves is too small to justify as an allied race personally. But since I am an altoholic I am up for any reason that justifies making 1 more character. Or 5.

[Frenchvince]

Anti HE,
we now see your new fight, minimize the involvement of the High Elves in the alliance.

I understand, you are fighting with the few weapons that you have left.
The blunt blow on the head by your revered god Ion must have hurt very much.

It is better that I base myself on what the developers say and what is at stake, otherwise I have the impression, when reading you, that there have never been high elves in WOW.

[matrix123mko]

Congrats, you're the first person that hasn't assumed I am a Horde player, but you're still misguided in your interpretation.
A highborne is someone who belongs to the higher caste of **Night elves**.
When Dathremar stopped being a night elf, all he could claim was the heritage.
You insisting all other elves being highborne, despite all the literature defining the highborne as "the elite caste of night elves", is just incorrect.

Which literature? The context is important. They were surely one society with night elves before Sundering and that was stated multiple times. However, they haven't said that highborne caste was dismantled at the moment when Malfurion created his treehugger sect.

Except that the Silver covenant didn't participate in the faction war. IN your focus on the ballista and going "THERE THEY ARE FOR THE ALLIANCE" you are forgetting the circumstances in which they appear.
It is when the Alliance AND separatist horde seek to oust Sylvanas that they appeared.
They had absolutely no involvement in the actual fourth war.

There were high elves on islands but they were from Allerian Stronghold instead of Silver Covenant.

[FossilFree]

At this point, Ion has much more to gain from supporting High Elves than he has to lose.

[matrix123mko]

Anti HE,
we now see your new fight, minimize the involvement of the High Elves in the alliance.

I understand, you are fighting with the few weapons that you have left.
The blunt blow on the head by your revered god Ion must have hurt very much.

It is better that I base myself on what the developers say and what is at stake, otherwise I have the impression, when reading you, that there have never been high elves in WOW.

Their involvement is minimal. Some of them come and help but they are usually not connected to bigger organisations. The apogeum of their involvement in Alliance was when Dalaran was under totalitarian human regime but these times passed.

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At this point, Ion has much more to gain from supporting High Elves than he has to lose.

He can add them, there will be 5000+ upvote thankful post on Reddit and then we can all stop caring.

[Aldo Hawk]

It's amazing to see the doublethinking sprouting out with the new Ion statement about blue eyes not making sense and Blood elves evolving from that

The same people that have been using the phrase 'Blood elves are High elves', with knowledge of the ambiguity of the word High elf, (this being, the name of a race and the name of a group) now whining because people are trolling back with the new 'Blood elves have evolved' phrase that also contains ambiguity

The same people that behaved like mindless parrots about the 'Blood elves are High elves' now shamelessly points it out as being too ambiguous to be said. That's the denifition of being a hypocrite

Sorry, you don't have any right to complain after being so pedantic and asinine for the past two years of repeating like a broken record a phrase that only serves the purpose of making appear as if the contrary is saying something that they aren't actually saying. It never made sense in the first place to say the phrase in such a way, deal with it

[Ardenaso]

I know it's proven already but I really can't see how Khadgar would re-pledge to the new Alliance

[Obelisk Kai]

And you too can't prove that these ballists are from Theramore, a human city above all.
As I told you, there has never been a High Elf army, Silver Covenant, just High Elf civilians or a master mage.
If you are going to take a ride to Theramore, there are only human ballistas.

What people are trying to explain to you is that even if the high elves are not a playable race, they participate in wars or others, they are still in the history of the alliance from near or far ( BFA was from afar, there was the integration of the void elves ).
This is why it is a big request so that they become a playable race or a customizations.

No need to have more explanations or to derail the discussions ...

Yes, they are still in the history of the Alliance.And then after the second war, they left. A few individuals remain within the Alliance but that doesn't mean the high elves are a part of the Alliance. It means some are in an individual capacity. A centaur joined the horde in one of the comics. Doesn-t make centaur a horde race.

And as we have learned in the past week...it being a 'big' request doesn't matter. They'll do a small request that makes sense to them over a big request that doesn't.

High Elves for the Alliance as a distinct allied race were ruled out two years ago. Nothing has occurred to change that.

And customisations on Void Elves are unlikely as Void Elves have moved past looking like a high elf.

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The funny thing is after Ion's comment on no blue eyed blood elves it's driven a lot of people against alliance getting playable high elves to a new level of pedantry. Not sure what the aim is anymore for those people.

It's like when people use that phrase, "this fog is so thick I can cut it with a knife". Same thing here.

More your own level of doublethink on the topic.

Were those of us opposed to the exiles becoming an alliance option to adopt a similar line of thinking to yourself over blue eyes our response would be that Ion is wrong (possibly an idiot), that our own interpretation of the lore which suggested blue eyes could be a thing is superior to his (and his disagreement shows he doesn't know what he is talking about), that if we keep asking for blue eyes they will change their minds and that he said 'no plans for blue eyes', which clearly means there is an opening as one day there maybe plans.

Instead, you'll see we accepted what he said. What we did do is extrapolate the rationale for why Blood Elves aren't getting blue eyes, that they don't make sense for Blood Elves because Blood Elves have moved on from that, to your own request for high elf customisations on Void Elves.On the same principle, Void Elves don't get those extra customisations you've been hankering for.

You of course reject this parallel, for the reason that whereas you personally didn't want blood elves to get blue eyes (and thus agree with Ion for once without question), you personally want those other customisations on Void Elves. So high elf customisations don't make sense for Void Elves. And yes, Afrasiabi said 'it's possible'. Ion said maybe Blood Elves would get blue contact lenses as well. Turns out possibilities aren't promises when they sit down and think about it.

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From what the fourth war has shown us, the silver covenant are most definitely a unit of Kirin Tor and not the Alliance. They have in the past aided the alliance on behalf of the Kirin Tor, but it's very clear where their allegiances lie first and foremost.

And I see after Ion's comments certain high elfers in this thread have grown "big heads". It's funny cause we're still where we were at the very start of this thread... high elves on the alliance still are not playable, blizzard are still standing strong on their views of factions remaining separate and distinct, void elves have evolved and as such it wouldn't make sense for them to have light skin and hair colors, and to this day the statement "blood elves are our high elves" is still true, as blizzard have yet to put out a statement that says otherwise. If blizzard wish to keep a distinction of eye color then that's fine, but I'm just glad that they still see blood elves as the legacy and continuation of the high elf race. The blood elf heritage questline even reinforces this idea, with the statement "the last act of the high elves"... suggesting that the high elf people forged a new path from that moment onwards and that the legacy of the high elves lives on through the blood elves. The blood elves are the definition of the high elf race. The exiles are a bygone, and are dissipating into human society.

I think it's clear that players allow their imaginations to run away with them sometimes. People suggesting San'layn on Blood Elves and Undead Elves on Forsaken or Eredar on Draenei and the like.

Even a lick of common sense would tell you that they aren't happening. Some of the suggestions put forward would almost be could almost be allied races by themselves.

Imagine Nathanos like undead. That would not only be a model swap from existing forsaken, but you would need to feel out a whole suite of customisation options that would only work in that model. You would be housing two models (four for both genders) worth of options in one race.
In many cases you couldn't share options. Nathanos like undead facial hair wouldn't match to ordinary undead faces due to the heads being a different shape.

Imagine Eredar skins on Draenei, how could that work? They should have customisations such as fel crystal necklaces or skull jewelry or cracked, horrific scarring options with fel seeping out but that would only make sense on the demon Eredar. Those options wouldn't make sense on a Draenei though. I doubt they'd lock them off if you chose Draenei skin tones. And if you don't include them, well then why bother? You've done a half assed job and introduced the request in the most anodyne fashion possible.

Something of that complexity would involve an allied race, one that could be tailored around the central idea with all the attendant customisations. Of course, Nathanos like Undead and playable Eredar fail because they violate lore anyway (Nathanos like undead, like Alleria, being a unique transformation and Eredar being wholly evil demons), but people who expect existing races, whether cored or allied, to act as vectors for other options are going to be solely disappointed. Only when the other groups are biologically and thematically identical to the existing race will there customisations be included on that base race. So Wildhammer tattoos for Dwarves and Revantusk skins for Trolls are perfectly fine.
It is also why Ion's recent comments essentially bury all these extreme requests. None of them make sense on the existing races. And there are plentiful opportunities to offer all existing races more customisations whilst colouring within the lines in ways consistent with their lore. High Elf like customisations on Void Elves is almost certainly not going to happen.

The exiles as an option are all but finished. They were rejected as a separate allied race option in 2018 due to the importance of preserving the distinction between the two factions and as we saw at Blizzcon, the two faction system is a pillar of the game.
And as Hazelnutty said, there isn't really a universe in which the Alliance gets two thalassian elf models to the Horde one. One thalassian elf race per side, with each option looking distinct from the other looks and feels like the final answer.

[elbleuet]

If Legion, where Khadgar goes neutral, comes after the UVG, how is it outdated when the UVG came out BEFORE it? This shouldn't even be an argument. Stuff from the past gets overruled by later stuff. It happens all the time.
Read your dates you acnowledged.

Khadgar was an Alliance hero, neutral toward the Horde since his introduction in 2007.

So the "He goes neutral in Legion" is a nonsense. In WOD, he was also neutral. But even at that time he was described as being Alliance.

So the book is totally accurate. And the council of 6 in Dalaran is ruled by an Alliance character.

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No, Dalaran is not an Alliance city. Dalaran is a neutral state. It may have Alliance leanings, but there is a world of difference between having sympathies for a side and being a part of that side.

Dalaran took no part in the Fourth War. Dalaran did not aid the Alliance. Dalaran was, as it was before the Pandaria campaign, neutral.

Dalaran never left the Alliance actually. The Alliance head of the council of 6 was replaced by another Alliance character. See his bio.

You have 0 Horde representative in the council. Aethas wasn't allowed back.

Were you correct in this, Varian wouldn't have gone to so much bother to try and bring Dalaran back into the Alliance in the first place. It is impossible to bring back what never left. Dalaran left the Alliance again at the beginning of Legion so as to be a neutral hub for both Horde and Alliance in the war against the Legion. And the leader of the Kirin Tor, who had fought beside too many heroes of the Horde, could not bring himself to commit either himself or his city to another bout of intra-faction warfare.

That's what I said. An Alliance kingdom neutral to the Horde for a common cause.

You think you can hope to destroy (or attempt to) every human kingdom on Azeroth and say "but Dalaran loves the Horde they're absolutely neutral". Nah.

The Ultimate visual guide (2016) says both the Kirin Tor & Khadgar are Alliance. Any thoughts on this ?

No, they aren't. They are a nearly extinct group of exiles scattered across the world. The largest organisation of high elves lives in a neutral city after all. And that city, and that organisation, sat out the Fourth War entirely. The Ankoan did more for the Alliance cause in the Fourth War than the exiles did, and the Alliance only met them in one zone.

And the High elves did more in the final event of the fourth war than what the blood elves did. Your point ?

This is simple point so I am mystified you keep missing it. As above, you are arguing that the 'high elves' are an important Alliance race. To which, of course, the appropriate question has been to ask you to prove it. So far nobody has satisfactorily answered the question given the glaring fact that this 'important' alliance race essentially sat on it's hands for the entire Fourth War. The obvious conclusion being that they aren't an important Alliance race at all. Sure, SOME individuals within the Alliance are high elves and sure, they do serve the Alliance well, but to argue that the high elves are an important Alliance race based on the actions of a few individuals is as plausible as someone arguing the Nathrezim are an important Alliance because Lothraxion is a member of the army of the light.

Just check their involvement since 2007. And you're gonna find some justification.

[Ardenaso]

Dalaran never left the Alliance actually. The Alliance head of the council of 6 was replaced by another Alliance character. See his bio.

You have 0 Horde representative in the council. Aethas wasn't allowed back.

I'm thinking Aethas is still climbing his way up with the amends and reparations. I do hope he gets his position back.

[elbleuet]

I'm thinking Aethas is still climbing his way up with the amends and reparations. I do hope he gets his position back.

To be honest, I hope he doesn't.

The Horde already has Suramar, Silvermoon & the Sunwell. Let the Alliance has its own magical capital.

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@Obelisk Kai

I almost forgot :

https://wow.gamepedia.com/Seven_Kingdoms

Dalaran : Alliance/neutral

That's just what I said. Dalaran never left the Alliance, and probably never will.

[Varodoc]

Hopefully one day they'll build a city in Telogrus Rift, this way the Alliance has a magical capital that rivals Silvermoon and Suramar.

Also, Dalaran was neutral ONLY DURING THE TIME OF THE LEGION INVASION. The agreement was that the Horde would be allowed a foothold into Dalaran to better combat the Legion threat. Now that the Legion is defeated and after the Horde under Warchief Sylvanas Windrunner committed genocide, there is very little reason for the Kirin Tor to continue letting the Horde inside Dalaran. Especially since Khadgar is an Alliance character, as confirmed by Kosak.

[elbleuet]

Hopefully one day they'll build a city in Telogrus Rift, this way the Alliance has a magical capital that rivals Silvermoon and Suramar.

Also, Dalaran was neutral ONLY DURING THE TIME OF THE LEGION INVASION. The agreement was that the Horde would be allowed a foothold into Dalaran to better combat the Legion threat. Now that the Legion is defeated and after the Horde under Warchief Sylvanas Windrunner committed genocide, there is very little reason for the Kirin Tor to continue letting the Horde inside Dalaran. Especially since Khadgar is an Alliance character, as confirmed by Kosak.

Exactly.

Maybe the void elves will replace the Sunreavers one day ? That would be nice.