Official High Elf Discussion Megathread

[Obelisk Kai]

You don't need to think too hard about it.

This started about the use of Thalassian and Blizzard has used it to describe elves from Quel'thalas, despite it being a language. It's got multiple uses.

You then moved to claiming that the entire race of high elves are labeling themselves in-universe as blood elves now "for short-hand". Without any evidence of this claim anywhere in sight.

Unsure if you're being purposefully obtuse about it or not, but you do you.

That thalassian has multiple uses is a given, but it's use as a catch all term for all those elves is something used on the forums rather than in game.

In universe, the Blood Elves are the overwhelmingly dominant component of the race (excluding the Void Elves who have now altered). Why would it be absurd to expect that the name Blood Elf and the people, of whom Blood Elves are the biggest component by miles, would become increasingly synonymous.

The exiles are just that, exiles. A better real world analogy for them would be the White Russians who fled the Russian Empire in the aftermath of the 1917 revolution. They were still russians, but they were ideologically opposed to the new Soviet Regime. And that's what high elf means now, a politicised term representing opposition to the new order back home.

[Frenchvince]

The Italians (Milanese, Roman, Neapolitan) speak Italian, their country of origin is Italy.

The Thalassians (quel-dorei, sin'dorei, ren'dorei) speak Thalassian, their country of origin is Quel'Thalas (sian).

It's simpler as an example but we must not compare too much with real life because it has nothing to do.

[Thalassian Bob]

Well King Anasterian was something like three thousand years old and all he managed was a small goatee

https://wow.gamepedia.com/Anasterian...Sunstrider.jpg

https://wow.gamepedia.com/File:BTNAn...Sunstrider.png

Definitely the void is having an impact on elven physiology...and as a result we must refuse. Strong facial hair must be like blue eyes, void elf only. The faction barrier is at stake upon it.

That's true. If going without tash was good enough for Anasterian, then that's good enough for me!

Clearly upper lip hair is a stubbly line that no Sunwell-loving Thalassian should cross...

"Don't you wish your girlfriend was hot like me?"
"I could really use a scrunchy... yeah, you heard me!"

It's just not possible to be a manly man with this kind of joke and then everyone knows that BE men are a bit effeminate.

And playable high elves would just be huffing their own farts of superiority in their voice lines. Or fawning over human potential like the Windrunner sisters.

is that your character? now try to make him look like the Reforged archer

That is not my boy, I'm afraid (I have a Silver Covenant magister). Hmm. I think the closest you could get on a hunter would be the Vindictive set again. But, a void elf monk could get very close with the Sunwell leather PvP set like Vereesa wears:

What's this armor and weapon ? It'd go very well with my VE Huntress

The armor is the Alliance tint for the Legion Vindictive Gladiator set. It's a really beautiful set!

[MyWholeLifeIsThunder]

Yes, add some suns and phoenixes and it works. Blood elves could use that too.

To be fair, if Blood Elves got updated architecture, I'd actually hope they get the full treatment -such as Draenei had in WoD, even if it isn't actually used-

I'd like "reused" stuff for High Elves because, well, I see them as an AR at best, so overall I am looking for less resources being spent with the biggest effect.

But for a core race like BE's? Yeh, they'd deserve a more comprehensive aesthetic overhaul if it were up to me.

- - - Updated - - -

Hey guys, I just found this HE art, it looks great, with the same VE haircut.
I love this look !


https://www.deviantart.com/shadowpri...nter-831799693

If blizzard wanted to go the cheap route to implement "high elves" through void elves (like how we are getting warhammer dwarves) they could do stuff like this, and turn the void tentacles into braids and add some tattoos.



Sure you'd at most be a High Elf that recently joined the Void Elves, but that's already more than what we have rn, and for some, enough.

[Frenchvince]

That's exactly the idea if the High Elves are available this way.
Here is a drawing that pretty much sums up the high-elf customization for the void elves.


https://www.deviantart.com/runicknig...ture-833185486


https://twitter.com/TheRedShirtGuy/s...65872872624133

A rather normal change, a banner the Silver Hand in a city of the horde, it was a sacrilege !

[matrix123mko]

To be fair, if Blood Elves got updated architecture, I'd actually hope they get the full treatment -such as Draenei had in WoD, even if it isn't actually used-

I'd like "reused" stuff for High Elves because, well, I see them as an AR at best, so overall I am looking for less resources being spent with the biggest effect.

But for a core race like BE's? Yeh, they'd deserve a more comprehensive aesthetic overhaul if it were up to me.

Of course, full overhaul is the best way to do that. However, I can agree on cheaper one if Blizzard is really that lazy.

If blizzard wanted to go the cheap route to implement "high elves" through void elves (like how we are getting warhammer dwarves) they could do stuff like this, and turn the void tentacles into braids and add some tattoos.



Sure you'd at most be a High Elf that recently joined the Void Elves, but that's already more than what we have rn, and for some, enough.

I haven't thought about transforming tentacles into braids. This is a good idea.

[Ardenaso]

A rather normal change, a banner the Silver Hand in a city of the horde, it was a sacrilege !

everyone should know at this point that the Argent Dawn/Crusade has already vouched for the Horde to the Silver Hand

- - - Updated - - -

A rather normal change, a banner the Silver Hand in a city of the horde, it was a sacrilege !

everyone should know at this point that the Argent Dawn/Crusade has already vouched for the Horde to the Silver Hand

[FlubberPuddy]

https://twitter.com/TheRedShirtGuy/s...65872872624133

A rather normal change, a banner the Silver Hand in a city of the horde, it was a sacrilege !

So the Silver Hand IS back in the Alliance. Dope!

- - - Updated - - -

In MrGM's new video about character creation he hovers over the Void Elves and their little snippet states,

"Transformed by forbidden magic, the void elves were cast out by their kin and now fight for the Alliance."

Alpha is alpha, beta is beta. Things can change yada yada yada.

But this reinforces that Void Elves aren't any Silver Covenant High Elf or other High Elf. The "now" bit wouldn't apply for the SC or any of the High Elves in the Alliance.

Since they already do fight for the Alliance.



This backs up what Umbric tells the Void Elf player, about how they (former Blood Elves) need to prove their loyalty to the Alliance. High Elves don't need to do that as they already are Alliance.

[Obelisk Kai]

So the Silver Hand IS back in the Alliance. Dope!

- - - Updated - - -

In MrGM's new video about character creation he hovers over the Void Elves and their little snippet states,

"Transformed by forbidden magic, the void elves were cast out by their kin and now fight for the Alliance."

Alpha is alpha, beta is beta. Things can change yada yada yada.

But this reinforces that Void Elves aren't any Silver Covenant High Elf or other High Elf. The "now" bit wouldn't apply for the SC or any of the High Elves in the Alliance.

Since they already do fight for the Alliance.



This backs up what Umbric tells the Void Elf player, about how they (former Blood Elves) need to prove their loyalty to the Alliance. High Elves don't need to do that as they already are Alliance.

This is reaching. You are attempting to impose a single meaning upon otherwise highly ambiguous statements which seems to be a highly unusual step for you.

After all, it flies in the face of your personal interpretation of Moorgard's interview that customizations allow you to roleplay whatever you want, lore be damned. As such, accepting a one size fits all description for the void elves mean you must also support the impossibility of high elf like customizations on void elves. You cannot both agree with such a limited interpretation and believe that extended customizations allow total freedom from lore constraints.

I can however offer a wider, alternative interpretation.
All void elves ARE transformed by forbidden magic, so that actually does strongly imply high elf customizations wont be coming, as a void elf who is not transformed is not a void elf. It also tallies up with what Ion said which implied racial customizations must tally with lore.

Silver Covenant elves WERE cast out by their kin, either directly through exile or by being forbidden to return following their defection. And remember, the initial group of Void Elves were cast out for their research into forbidden magic whilst still being blood elves. The transformation came after this exile...which would be the same with any silver covenant elf who elected to undergo the transformation.

And becoming a Void elf would allow a Silver Covenant elf to fight directly for the Alliance given their ambiguous status as a militia in neutral city.

So nope. This is one of the occasions Moorgard was on about relating to viable personal head canon, it is up to the individual so long as the interpretation doesn't go against the lore. Even Umbric's speech is variable depending upon if you think he is using an exclusive or inclusive 'we'. Both interpretations are valid depending on the perspective of the person speaking with him.

The only thing this line undermines is the already shaky possibility of high elf customizations on void elves. I'm a little surprised you actually highlighted it.
@Thalassianbob what do you think?. You roleplay a void elf as a former silver covenant elf so this would impact you. Is Pennem right here?

[Thalassian Bob]

The only thing this line undermines is the already shaky possibility of high elf customizations on void elves. I'm a little surprised you actually highlighted it.
@Thalassianbob what do you think?. You roleplay a void elf as a former silver covenant elf so this would impact you. Is Pennem right here?

Well, there's an agenda behind taking the most narrow interpretation as the correct one which is "If it's impossible for high elves to be void elves, we could still have high elves as a standalone race on the Alliance". It's a pretty absurd proposition with the introduction of the Ren'dorei. Imagine requesting two variations of an opposing faction's core race for any other playable group in game. It would never be taken seriously. It would be like if the Alliance got Lightforged and Mag'har orcs while the Horde only had the original green, Ogrimmar-based variety. The very notion is preposterous.

Anyway, I think as you point out that statement can be taken in a variety of ways. The remaining Alliance-aligned Quel'dorei are either in a state of self-imposed or Silvermoon-decreed exile so if they later became void elves that wouldn't change the fact that they too were "cast out by their kin". Alleria herself - who went straight for Quel'dorei to Ren'dorei - was welcomed in Quel'Thalas and even given access to the holy isle of Quel'Danas until it was made apparent that her very state of existence was a threat to the Sunwell at which point she was "cast out by [her] kin".

The statement is certainly nebulous enough to be open to interpretation, but with the design theory for character creation in Shadowlands ("If you think it and it isn't an outright contradiction to the lore, then it is true.") which is supported by the creation of a new neutral, catch-all starting zone, I think it is perfectly acceptable to think of the new Ren'dorei description covering Quel to Ren conversion for new void elves. Especially factoring in the pretty blatant implication of high elf wayfarers visiting Telogrus.

[Leinadh]

That thalassian has multiple uses is a given, but it's use as a catch all term for all those elves is something used on the forums rather than in game.

No, I already linked for you the elves from Quel'Thalas that are referred to in-game as "Thalassian":

Thalassian Civilian: www[dot]wowhead[dot]com/npc=145650/thalassian-civilian
Thalassian Priest: www[dot]wowhead[dot]com/npc=146347/thalassian-priest
Thalassian Magister: www[dot]wowhead[dot]com/npc=146357/thalassian-magister

Items that refer to Thalassian elves:

Spaulders of the Thalassian Savior: www[dot]wowhead[dot]com/item=34193/spaulders-of-the-thalassian-savior
Spaulders of the Thalassian Defender: www[dot]wowhead[dot]com/item=34389/spaulders-of-the-thalassian-defender
Thalassian Ranger Gauntlets: www[dot]wowhead[dot]com/item=34343/thalassian-ranger-gauntlets

It is thus canon and official that Thalassian is a valid term, in-universe, for the group of elves that come from Quel'Thalas. The fact that its not as widely used as "Blood Elves", "High Elves" or "Void Elves" (or their equivalent terms in Thalassian) is factually irrelevant.

[FlubberPuddy]

The “and now fight for the Alliance” is what hits it home.

“Now” is saying before they were transformed they didn’t fight for the Alliance.

Nothing ambiguous or vague about that statement.

That can’t be applied to SC or High Elves since there has been High Elves fighting for the Alliance since TBC, Wrath, and MoP.

Of course people are free to whatever interpretations they wish and I would never tell someone their character’s RP is incorrect.

Just like a Farakki will always be treated as a Darkspear in-game, or a Wildhammer will always be treated as a Bronzebeard in-game.

All I’m pointing out is the game itself is recognizing all Void Elves as Blood Elves.

What one decides to RP their character as is up to them personally.

[Odintdk]

Well, there's an agenda behind taking the most narrow interpretation as the correct one which is "If it's impossible for high elves to be void elves, we could still have high elves as a standalone race on the Alliance". It's a pretty absurd proposition with the introduction of the Ren'dorei. Imagine requesting two variations of an opposing faction's core race for any other playable group in game. It would never be taken seriously. It would be like if the Alliance got Lightforged and Mag'har orcs while the Horde only had the original green, Ogrimmar-based variety. The very notion is preposterous.

It is amazing that people either ignore, or don't even consider this (bolded part), when they make this whole absurd request, and even more so (repeating what I posted a page or 2 ago) when the absolute majority of the remaining High Elves, 90% or more, are on the Horde and with ONE playable variety.

Imagine if the Horde, after having just received the Nightborne, would request Nightelves with new eye colours to be added to the Horde. The request would be largely laughed at.

[FlubberPuddy]

It is amazing that people either ignore, or don't even consider this (bolded part), when they make this whole absurd request, and even more so (repeating what I posted a page or 2 ago) when the absolute majority of the remaining High Elves, 90% or more, are on the Horde and with ONE playable variety.

People don't ignore that. It's Blizzard that decided to come out with Void Elves first.

That isn't the fault of the players who have been requesting High Elves all along. And it doesn't mean those people are now required to not ask for High Elves.

Ion said that blue eyes on blood elves doesn't make sense for how they've evolved so that means Horde wouldn't get the High Elf variation anyway.

And that variant has been sitting right there among the Alliance all along and keeps showing up. It's only natural that Alliance players will ask for it, something which people have pointed out multiple times already.

Like no one seriously asks for Centaurs on either faction or with much evidence to back it because Centaurs on either faction evidence are either nonexistent or hardly exist for it to be a request.

Just like one goblin in the SI 7 doesn't have an "Alliance Goblin megathread" because people are actually aware of the fact on what's got enough backing to be a practical suggestion vs what is true wish fulfillment without any evidence to either of the greater two factions.

[Thalassian Bob]

The “and now fight for the Alliance” is what hits it home.

“Now” is saying before they were transformed they didn’t fight for the Alliance.

Nothing ambiguous or vague about that statement.

That can’t be applied to SC or High Elves since there has been High Elves fighting for the Alliance since TBC, Wrath, and MoP.

Of course people are free to whatever interpretations they wish and I would never tell someone their character’s RP is incorrect.

Just like a Farakki will always be treated as a Darkspear in-game, or a Wildhammer will always be treated as a Bronzebeard in-game.

All I’m pointing out is the game itself is recognizing all Void Elves as Blood Elves.

What one decides to RP their character as is up to them personally.

Well, perhaps they were non-partisan Quel'dorei like those in the Kirin Tor but the events of BfA like the razing of Teldrassil pushed them to take a side.

It is amazing that people either ignore, or don't even consider this (bolded part), when they make this whole absurd request, and even more so (repeating what I posted a page or 2 ago) when the absolute majority of the remaining High Elves, 90% or more, are on the Horde and with ONE playable variety.

Imagine if the Horde, after having just received the Nightborne, would request Nightelves with new eye colours to be added to the Horde. The request would be largely laughed at.

Exactly, requesting this for any other race in the game would be met with the derision and ridicule it probably deserves.

"The Alliance should have gotten Highmountain tauren and also Grimtotem. The Horde should have gotten Mechagnomes and and Leper Gnomes."

[Ardenaso]

It is amazing that people either ignore, or don't even consider this (bolded part), when they make this whole absurd request, and even more so (repeating what I posted a page or 2 ago) when the absolute majority of the remaining High Elves, 90% or more, are on the Horde and with ONE playable variety.

Imagine if the Horde, after having just received the Nightborne, would request Nightelves with new eye colours to be added to the Horde. The request would be largely laughed at.

to be fair literally nobody asked for Void Elves and they were like an obvious asspull

but yeah, better High Elves as Void Elf customization options instead like Wildhammer/Dark Troll/Sand Troll

[FlubberPuddy]

Exactly, requesting this for any other race in the game would be met with the derision and ridicule it probably deserves.

And it's precisely because it's High Elves on the Alliance that this request has some amount of strength behind it. I say "some" because everyone interprets it differently as this single thread as shown.

Also let's be honest, practically every request that doesn't have Blizzard's initial backing/blessing (aka they've been confirmed to be coming but later or just freshly revealed to be coming) is met with derision and ridicule.

Obelisk said that none of the other race requests have had an opposition but that's simply not true. Go look to the threads of the Ogre/San'layn/Gilgoblin/Jin'yu/Sethrak etc they all contain posts where people oppose the suggestion. Varying from trolling to genuinely not wanting it.

The High Elf request is just a very popular one, so naturally it begets far more opposition as it also carries far more support than the other requests.

Happens with anything, the more famous a person gets the more fans but also haters they get. It's only natural really.

[baskev]

A country =/= a race. Your comparison breaks apart by that. Regardless of what the country calls themselves, the race of the people are still human.

Same thing I meant with the Rhinos, a Sumatran Rhino doesn't stop being a Rhino, nor gets called a White Rhino because that's the majority type now.

Blood Elves, Void Elves, and High Elves are all of the high elf race. Their specific sub-group names doesn't change that.

You really are not making sense.

Yes, but you have species and sub species. And different variations on a species.

Take north european vs greek
Or asian vs black.

We are all human but differ in our looks. And are build for a different area of the planet. A blond scandanavian will not last as long in central african planes as a african.

And you have made a other mistake. As clearly shown in WoW. Using different types of magic to feed you can change your body in drastic ways. Like dreanei > erodar >broken. Or blood elves > high elves > withered > void elves. Or you could even add high born, night elves and nightborne to that list.

Thanks to fel energy and later the new sunwell. blood elves look different. Patch 7.3.5 (suramar city cinamatic) shows this clearly ingame. High elves being more pale, blue eyes, more white hair. While blood elves look more like calafornians ( tan, golden hair etc). Blood elves use the sunwell to feed them their energy, while high elves do not.


On top of that you have also made a other mistake.
High elves where first, then after warcraft 3 a good portion ( 80 to 90 % i think it was not sure) became blood elves. So saying that they change/made a choice to define themselves as high elves is wrong. They made a choice to stick to their original name/race/nationality.

And that brings me to your third mistake.
In lore ( both game, books and wiki). Blood and high elves also differ in ideoligy. Big enough to be for 2 different groups.

So that plus the different looks and source of engery. Makes them different enough. Yes they are still of the same family line. But different enough. Because using your logic all high elves and nightborn and blood elves are just night elves.

[Obelisk Kai]

Yes, but you have species and sub species. And different variations on a species.

Take north european vs greek
Or asian vs black.

We are all human but differ in our looks. And are build for a different area of the planet. A blond scandanavian will not last as long in central african planes as a african.

And you have made a other mistake. As clearly shown in WoW. Using different types of magic to feed you can change your body in drastic ways. Like dreanei > erodar >broken. Or blood elves > high elves > withered > void elves. Or you could even add high born, night elves and nightborne to that list.

Thanks to fel energy and later the new sunwell. blood elves look different. Patch 7.3.5 (suramar city cinamatic) shows this clearly ingame. High elves being more pale, blue eyes, more white hair. While blood elves look more like calafornians ( tan, golden hair etc). Blood elves use the sunwell to feed them their energy, while high elves do not.


On top of that you have also made a other mistake.
High elves where first, then after warcraft 3 a good portion ( 80 to 90 % i think it was not sure) became blood elves. So saying that they change/made a choice to define themselves as high elves is wrong. They made a choice to stick to their original name/race/nationality.

And that brings me to your third mistake.
In lore ( both game, books and wiki). Blood and high elves also differ in ideoligy. Big enough to be for 2 different groups.

So that plus the different looks and source of engery. Makes them different enough. Yes they are still of the same family line. But different enough. Because using your logic all high elves and nightborn and blood elves are just night elves.

Numerous mistakes here.

High Elven exiles still feed upon the Sunwell as confirmed by the 'In the Shadow of the Sun' novella. The high elven exiles also make pilgrimages to the Sunwell, which would be weird if they felt it was a negative thing. All elves (with the exception of the Night Elves) became addicted to magic, the exiles are no exception and they still require magic to sate that addiction.

Blood Elves did not consume fel energy directly, it was the ambience of the fel crystals used to prop up spellwork in Silvermoon that triggered the change in eye colour. The difference between being next to a nuclear reaction and chugging down the uranium inside directly. Blood Elves fed on arcane energy from mana wyrms. The exiles apparently sated their addiction by draining arcane energy from small relics they were provided.

The 'different' high elf looks are no such thing, those skin tones are also available to Blood Elves and could easily be checked out in Wowhead's character customiser when they listed the separate helf NPC skins. There were far fewer helf npc skins, merely the lightest out of the Blood Elf range with blue eyes.

So physically the same, with the same addiction, who used the same energy when the sunwell was down to feed that addiction, who now feed on the same restored Sunwell.

Which leaves ideology. And if that were enough they'd never have made Void Elves.

- - - Updated - - -

The “and now fight for the Alliance” is what hits it home.

“Now” is saying before they were transformed they didn’t fight for the Alliance.

Nothing ambiguous or vague about that statement.

That can’t be applied to SC or High Elves since there has been High Elves fighting for the Alliance since TBC, Wrath, and MoP.

Of course people are free to whatever interpretations they wish and I would never tell someone their character’s RP is incorrect.

Just like a Farakki will always be treated as a Darkspear in-game, or a Wildhammer will always be treated as a Bronzebeard in-game.

All I’m pointing out is the game itself is recognizing all Void Elves as Blood Elves.

What one decides to RP their character as is up to them personally.

Well if we are going to be supremely particular about the grammar in use, it's still ambiguous. The sentence you are relying upon is

'"Transformed by forbidden magic, the void elves were cast out by their kin and now fight for the Alliance."

In the case of the initial batch of Blood Elves who became Void Elves, they were cast out first (before becoming Void Elves), transformed and THEN they fought for the Alliance.

In the case of Alleria, she was fighting for the Alliance first, then transformed and then cast out.

In the case of a Silver Covenant Elf who has elected to become a Void Elf, they were cast out first, THEN transformed and NOW they can fight openly for the Alliance. Because the Silver Covenant IS a militia based in a neutral city and is subject to certain considerations. After all, they didn't 'fight' for the Alliance in the fourth war.

Well, that maybe untrue. Some of the 7th Legion Mages, the two helf ones who shield the airship in the warfront, are apparently tagged as Silver Covenant in the data. Could be a relic from wrath of the lich king, but it does support the idea that the only way a Silver Covenant elf can actually fight openly for the Alliance is to actually join the Alliance military. They certainly weren't wearing Silver Covenant regalia on that airship. And if the Silver Covenant was a full and open part of the Alliance, rather than a Dalarani militia predisposed to help them, they wouldn't need to wear 7th Legion uniforms when fighting.

If a Silver Covenant member is tempted enough by the void to join the Void Elves, then they've left the Silver Covenant behind and fully embraced the Alliance. Which is perfectly consistent with 'and now fight for the Alliance'.

But if you dispute the idea of their neutrality, then the last two sections of the sentence flow together 'were cast out by their kin and now fight for the Alliance', so that part could come first, the transformation second and them being Void Elves is a reference to their collective current state.

So as you can see, the game doesn't enforce a single origin for the Void Elves, the game is vague enough that you can apply any origin to your Void Elf as you wish so long as it is consistent with the in game lore of them actually being a Void Elf. That is the one requirement for Void Elf roleplay, that the Void Elf is actually a Void Elf.

[Frenchvince]

everyone should know at this point that the Argent Dawn/Crusade has already vouched for the Horde to the Silver Hand

The Silver Hand banner should not be displayed in a city of war criminals.
My remark was more in this sense.

https://twitter.com/TheLostCodex/sta...72827712335872