Official High Elf Discussion Megathread

[Starla]

A different position changes so little to make no difference that matters, imo.
They still look the same as far as playable races go.

[Frenchvince]

A different position changes so little to make no difference that matters, imo.
They still look the same as far as playable races go.

This is why it would be interesting to give them a different position because there are already the void elves in the alliance and without changing the physique too much as it was the case for KT humans.

[bobwuzhere1224]

This is why it would be interesting to give them a different position because there are already the void elves in the alliance and without changing the physique too much as it was the case for KT humans.

I want my Blood Elf to have a new stance so that when holstering a shield it's not hanging crooked off my warrior's back and clipping into Transmog.

[MyWholeLifeIsThunder]

A different position changes so little to make no difference that matters, imo.
They still look the same as far as playable races go.

And yet we have nightborne?

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Yes. Broken Draenei were more sensible Allied Race than a Draenei reskin that could've been an customization option

If LFD and HMT have been just left as customization options for Draenei and Tauren, we could have had something actually cool like Broken and Taunka :/

[ddi2]

I am ok with LFD and HMT Tauren being Allied Races as long as they keep adding them in the future.

[Strippling]

That’s what Twitter dev statements are.

I misread what you wrote. To correct myself, yes I agree that twitter statements are official statements if the post is made on behalf of Blizzard and not as a personal opinion.

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Now is the time for you to give me your sources, and a random raidboss for a patch is not considered as one.

The source is Elisande, and her comments directly to the Silver Covenant. If you choose to believe she is wrong or lying then that's on you, but as it stands we have an in-game character providing in-game comments addressing the situation of high elves dissipating into human society (to paraphrase). That is my source, it's in-game and if you choose to deny it then that's on you.

4 half-elves were recorded since WII. 3 of them are from the same family. Wether it is in Dalaran, Stormwind or in the Alleria Stronghold,
I have yet to see one single half-elf over there.

Where are they ? Cay you tell us ?

I simply stated that half elves would be an option I personally would be okay with. All it would take from Blizzard is to expand their story and show us more of these half elves. I mean before wrath the silver covenant did not exist, then all of a sudden they did. If that isn't an issue for you then what would be the issue with a few more half elves now turning up (who story wise would have already existed)? And lore wise it's fitting as we see the high elven exiles having half elf children plus Elisande's observation of high elf exiles, so lorewise it's an organic direction to take the exiles, aesthetically and thematically they would be appropriately differentiated from blood elves, and gameplay wise we would have more unique options available as opposed to 3 playable high elf options using the current blood elf model.

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And yet we have nightborne?

Nightborne were an equivalent trade for void elves.

- Horde elf for an Alliance elf
- slight changes aesthetically to both parent races
- significant thematical changes to both parent races (night elves = wood dwelling, druidic elf; nightborne = city dwelling, arcane elf; blood elf = light/arcane based elf; void elf = well... void based elf)

For high elf exiles to be their own playable unit, we would need an equivalent swap again to "keep it fair". Core Horde elf race for core alliance elf race. Core horde race for core alliance race. High elves are a core horde race (yes there is a fragmented group of them on the alliance but does not change the fact that the high elf race is a core Horde race). You can't just be naive and say "whelp look at nightborne", cause nightborne were an equivalent swap for void elves. This would need to happen again, which is unlikely and would only further the blurring of faction lines which we know Blizzard do not want to do, and would further dilute the uniqueness of blood elves (which is not fair to ask imo).

What are your thoughts on a half-elf option?

[The Silver Covenant]

For high elf exiles to be their own playable unit, we would need an equivalent swap again to "keep it fair".

Do it. Nobody cares.

What are your thoughts on a half-elf option?

Sounds like another trash excuse to continue robbing the Alliance of its High Elves.

[Strippling]

Do it. Nobody cares.

Plenty of players would care. It's detrimental to a key pillar of the game, that being faction distinction coupled with racial uniqueness.

Sounds like another trash excuse to continue robbing the Alliance of its High Elves.

Those Alliance aligned high elves would rob the Horde and Blood elves of their aesthetics, thematics and uniqueness. It's one of the reasons why the Alliance aligned high elves have not become playable.

Another reason though is one Ion gave us.. "there is no real example of who or what a high elf is". Alliance aligned high elves have no community of their own, have no real society, no cohesion with each other (ie there is no cohesion between the elves of the lodge to the SC, etc..), no real identity, no real goals or direction or purpose. They're lost in limbo, they're not thriving and as we see in game they're becoming diluted with humans. They're a dwindling group. How do you make a race based off that? It's like making defias humans playable, it's not an organic and coherent option. The organic option would be to take these elves into the direction they're going... ie.. half elves who are a group of elves based off a human eccentric theme. Half elves would not be forced, they'd be a natural option with a bonus of offering unique aesthetics that do not detract from the blood elves.

And void elves getting "high elf customizations" does not make sense for them, as they've evolved from that (which is in alignment with Ion's statement regarding blue eyed blood elves). So, this option is likely off the table and is unreasonable in the first place as A) it'd essentially make void elves be blood elves literally, and B) it'd detract from the thematic of the race. That being a theme of void infused elves.

With "high elf" options for void elves being unlikely and unreasonable, and playable high elves being unlikely and unreasonable.. a good compromise would be half elves. They'd be unique, both visually and thematically, and they'd be a great way to continue the exiled elf story.

Instead of arguing semantics back and forth, I'm trying to discuss reasonable solutions. But for those who wish for playable high elves irrespective of the implications they'd have on the uniqueness of blood elves, then there's nothing more to discuss other then offering a concluding statement to you "the Horde is waiting for you".

[MyWholeLifeIsThunder]

Nightborne were an equivalent trade for void elves.

- Horde elf for an Alliance elf
- slight changes aesthetically to both parent races
- significant thematical changes to both parent races (night elves = wood dwelling, druidic elf; nightborne = city dwelling, arcane elf; blood elf = light/arcane based elf; void elf = well... void based elf)

For high elf exiles to be their own playable unit, we would need an equivalent swap again to "keep it fair". Core Horde elf race for core alliance elf race. Core horde race for core alliance race. High elves are a core horde race (yes there is a fragmented group of them on the alliance but does not change the fact that the high elf race is a core Horde race). You can't just be naive and say "whelp look at nightborne", cause nightborne were an equivalent swap for void elves. This would need to happen again, which is unlikely and would only further the blurring of faction lines which we know Blizzard do not want to do, and would further dilute the uniqueness of blood elves (which is not fair to ask imo).

Not the point of the specific argument tho; it was specifically about someone saying the posture change was not enough yet it was literally the major aesthetic chnage NB got compared to NE's besides tweaked proportions. Nonetheless I do agree with your point; in terms of fairness and balance -which are gameplay concerns but whatever. I do agree Horde should get a core alliance race.

Personally I'd go for Eredar; they look very similar save for an opposing skin tone -which would make the NB the HE counterpart and the VE the Eredar counterpart- They don't have a lot of lore for either faction, but it's more believable IMO that they would join the faction that doesn't have an in game group that specifically resents them, and unlike draenei, they don't resent orcs. Also the Horde just seems more about misfits and second chances; I honetsly feel the horde races would be more understanding of the plight of the lost Eredar.

Second option would be the pirate Kul Tirans, but they aren't a popular model. They could go for the human model tbh then.

What are your thoughts on a half-elf option?

Honestly? Best possible choice both lorewise and gameplay wise; if they are framed as the inheritors of the Silver Covenant -as per Elisande's words- they'd serve as the next logical step for HE's on the alliance; it would further justify a modified Blood Elf model, specially if we pair it with another hybrid race for the Horde; the Mok'nathal, who would use a modified Kul Tiran model as per Rexxar.

[elbleuet]

The source is Elisande, and her comments directly to the Silver Covenant.

She was provoking her ennemies. Nothing more.

If you choose to believe she is wrong or lying then that's on you, but as it stands we have an in-game character providing in-game comments addressing the situation of high elves dissipating into human society (to paraphrase). That is my source, it's in-game and if you choose to deny it then that's on you.

So it is confirmed blood elves' allies are lesser races (Elisande states it). Thanks.

https://www.wowhead.com/news=312225....irisfal-glades

And Anduin is Sylvanas' lover since the Scarlet crusade says so. Okay.

[Frenchvince]

What are your thoughts on a half-elf option?

The half-elves could be rather a customization option for the high-elves if they were available, it is part of their history, this addition would be logical.
And it will make one more difference, compared to the blood elves.

[baskev]

That the exiles cannot visit the Sunwell in person is irrelevant. The Blood and Honor novella confirms that the Sunwell can be felt anywhere. In the Shadow of the Sun has a high elven exile feeling the restored Sunwell from Quel'lithien. They visit the Sunwell out of reverence and respect, but they don't need to visit it to partake of it's radiance.


And yes, different kinds of magic does change you. The Blood Elves got green eyes. That was the end of it. They are now getting golden eyes due to the Sunwell, the same Sunwell the exiles are hooked up too as well.

Can feel yes, but it has been shown that not being near something can have a effect. But they also not need to draw power from it.

Who said that was the end of it? they look different enough.

https://wow.gamepedia.com/Ask_CDev#A...wers_-_Round_3


How did the blood elven fel eye glint become so widespread? The Warcraft Encyclopedia suggests that Rommath only taught the blood elves of Azeroth about how to siphon arcane magic, as most of the populace would likely be "horrified" if they knew the true extent of Kael's dealings with Illidan.

The situation regarding blood elf eyes is, in fact, extremely similar to that of the green skin of orcs: just being around heavy use of fel magic turned the eyes of the blood elves green. You could be the most pious of priests or most outdoorsy of Farstriders, chances are, if you were a high elf in Quel'Thalas or Outland following the Third War, you were around fel energies, and your eyes would turn green. Like the orcs' skin color, such an effect would take a very long time to wear off. Fel magic works a bit like radiation in this sense; it permeates the area and seeps into anything in the vicinity. Anything near a source of fel magic shows signs of slight corruption, it just so happens that high elves and orcs manifest it in a very visual way.

The Fel crystals were used to supplement spellwork in Silvermoon. But the Elves themselves drained arcane energy from mana wyrm vermin to sate the addiction. But while they sated the addiction with arcane, they were in the presence of fel, and that is why the eye colour changed. And it is why the eye colour is now changing to gold because as the dev team answer makes clear, it just so happens that high elves...manifest it in a very visual way. All that is needed is the connection to the sunwell we know the exiles maintain. In the end, golden eyes for all. Same race, same destiny.

Again, i am not debating the use of the fel crystals. But there effect....it did change them.
And you do not know what the effects after time will be. Its show that even being near it effects the land greatly. Hell even the magic eye colors changed because of that. THat is not a small feat.
On top of that...not the same race...different looks ( even if you do not count the eye colors) and different believes.

And the fact is only a few blood elf skins were repurposed with blue eyes for NPC use. All those tones are available for Blood Elf use today.

Yes, but lore wise and ingame all NPC have been shown like that.

The Orcs drank the blood of mannoroth. The Blood Elves were in the vicinity of fel crystals. There is a difference between directly ingesting the fel and being bathed in it's ambience.

Yes, not saying its not. Clearly stated has a effect. again twisting words here.

The figure given was 10%, not 15%, and as demonstrated the exiles have taken something of a battering these past few years. So yes, they are a small group. They are a very small group. It has been pointed out on numerous occasions that they are a very small group. 1 out of 7 is your figure?

They are less than one in a hundred of the pre war population. That is a better measure of where they actually stand.

10% was high elves, the 5% was blood elves that turned void elves.....Because that happend after the split between high and blood elves.

So the 10 % came from the orignal high elf population
While the 5% of the void elves comes from the total blood elf population.

You mean that they there were there? There were six of them. Elisande mocked them for interbreeding and assimilation.


https://www.wowhead.com/news=312334/...tas-and-zoltan
the part: Blue-eyed Blood Elves are not planned to be character customization, just textures for NPCs.


But hey if ingame proof of the difference in looks is not good enough. Or a update post from blizzard...nothing will be good enough for you

We have all seen the blue eyes news from Ion. It was confirmation of the status quo that held two years ago when the exiles were ruled out as an option on the grounds they and Blood Elves are the same race. Differing eye colours were brought up as known differences between the two groups, but the known differences were extremely minor with the overall point being they weren't germane to Blood Elves being High Elves.

The positive spin I take out of the Zoltan interview is that the blue eyes are intended for NPCs. Whilst I am saddened not to get blue eyes options, I can live with this outcome.
[/QUOTE]

Yeah and blood elves only had a couple of dozen so there are no more blood elves then you see on screen there....great logic....Those where the high elves present there.
And its not about the numbers btw. Your sidestepping again that she a ingame raid boss identify's them as 3 different groups/races.

And again sidestepping the political believes. You are clearly trying to twist things into your favor. Take things out of context, or make everything either pro or anti.
But hey lets recap my believes so you can keep your twisting/ingoring etc straight.

High elves:
- do i want them as a player race: yes
- are we ever going to get them: nope
- should we get them: Nope
- are the biological a different race: Yes. thanks to interbreeding ( like you stated), other magic sources ( or not corrupted by fel), and ingame they are shown as more pale, white haired version of elves.
- do they have different believes as blood elves: Yes. Otherwise if they are the same race and have the same believes they would be in the same faction.

But lets put it in real world terms so that you and others like you can understand it.

We are all humans.
But we do not all believe in the same things
or live in the same countries
or have the same ethnic background.
So we are not all from the same country, same believes and same ethnic background.

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Same race same fate, LOL

It's ridiculous, even Blizzard proves you wrong.

Anyway, if that's what you want to believe, it's probably good for your mind.

.....blue post and blizzard people saying stuff is always true: You all have phones right? you think you want it ? < classic wow....to name just a few.

Ingame they have been shown, and talked about at 2 different subraces. High elves and blood elves.

Lore wise its ingame > books > blizz devs . Because ingame is the story that happens.

And btw blizzard NEVER ever changes their stance of stuff.....

But all being said. I think most people in this thread do not believe it will ever happen. But we can dream about it. And hope. Atleast we are not rude by pestering people with half out of context facts, ingoring stuff just to be rude.




For me i see a other option for a cool elf race: highborne A less feral body then night elves, more akin aszhara body. Golden eyes etc.

[ddi2]

.....blue post and blizzard people saying stuff is always true: You all have phones right? you think you want it ? < classic wow....to name just a few.

Ingame they have been shown, and talked about at 2 different subraces. High elves and blood elves.

Lore wise its ingame > books > blizz devs . Because ingame is the story that happens.

And btw blizzard NEVER ever changes their stance of stuff.....

But all being said. I think most people in this thread do not believe it will ever happen. But we can dream about it. And hope. Atleast we are not rude by pestering people with half out of context facts, ingoring stuff just to be rude.

I don't actually remember that Blizzard even told anywhere that Blood Elves and High Elves are the same thing.

[Broflake]

I mean I am literally agreeing with you man, I'm telling you that blue eyes for blood elves and playable high elves are on the same bandwagon of arbitrary design choices and are as subject to be changed, whatever likelihood that is.

It's irrelevant if one is playable and the other not, because we are talking about arbitrary design choices to what's possible, which are dictated by whatever aesthetic design they are going for. If blue eyes don't "fit their view" for blood elves, they ain't going to happen, just as playable high elves don't fit either because they look too much like BE's. They are both entirely arbitrary design choices. and trying to say one is more valid than the other is like trying to split hairs.
.

oh no we are of like mind.
The main reason I view blue eyes differently is mainly since it doesn't appear, or at least prior to Ion's statement, to mean anything in terms of design relevance.
To be honest, I think allied races in general are a mistake.

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A different position changes everything, as was the case with the nightborne.

It really doesn't, unless you think the way people stand in real life suggests different ethnicity.

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And yet we have nightborne?

They can stand the exact same as a night elf and you'd still see the difference between them and a night elf before noticing the way they stand.

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The half-elves could be rather a customization option for the high-elves if they were available, it is part of their history, this addition would be logical.
And it will make one more difference, compared to the blood elves.

That is completely non-logical.
An entirely new race, would be a customization option, to another race?
It would be like making void elves a blood elf customization option. Just asking for two bites of one apple

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Again, i am not debating the use of the fel crystals. But there effect....it did change them.
And you do not know what the effects after time will be. Its show that even being near it effects the land greatly. Hell even the magic eye colors changed because of that. THat is not a small feat.
On top of that...not the same race...different looks ( even if you do not count the eye colors) and different believes.

It was stated by the devs that the fel effect is cosmetic only and would fade over time.
It has also been statd the sunwell would cleanse the effects.
So yes, we do know what the effects over time because a direct statement by the devs says such.

Yes, but lore wise and ingame all NPC have been shown like that.

This is done purely due to game limitations bask.

10% was high elves, the 5% was blood elves that turned void elves.....Because that happend after the split between high and blood elves.

So the 10 % came from the orignal high elf population
While the 5% of the void elves comes from the total blood elf population.

Uhhh...where are you getting the 5% number?

For me i see a other option for a cool elf race: highborne A less feral body then night elves, more akin aszhara body. Golden eyes etc.

Night elves and highborne are the exact same race. Its a social caste.
Azshara's body is a night elf female body with a different skin.
I am sure it will bean option in shadowlands

[Frenchvince]

That is completely non-logical.
An entirely new race, would be a customization option, to another race?
It would be like making void elves a blood elf customization option. Just asking for two bites of one apple

And why is it not logical?
It is part of their history, their heritage, it is even explicitly stated in wow (Elisande).
It's just a slightly smaller ear size to add in the personalization of the High Elves, it would make even more difference with their blood elf cousins.
And then there is the mag'har allied race which has had several clans in its customization, so it is surely possible to do the same by merging the high-elves / half-elves together.

[DeicideUH]

Void elf bug in Shadowlands. Entropic Embrace racial proc is normally darker than on live in SL, but for some reason it bugged and check out how my void elf looked like during it:

Without Entropic Embrace:


During Entropic Embrace:

[FossilFree]

Void elf bug in Shadowlands. Entropic Embrace racial proc is normally darker than on live in SL, but for some reason it bugged and check out how my void elf looked like during it:

Without Entropic Embrace:


During Entropic Embrace:

I wonder if this is how they will be testing new skin tones for Void Elves? Maybe all they have to do now is switch the two around, so you are fleshy normally and go voidy during entropic embrace.

[DeicideUH]

I wonder if this is how they will be testing new skin tones for Void Elves? Maybe all they have to do now is switch the two around, so you are fleshy normally and go voidy during entropic embrace.

It's just a bug, I don't think it means anything. But it's funny how it ended up coloring the character's head skin.

[MyWholeLifeIsThunder]

oh no we are of like mind.
The main reason I view blue eyes differently is mainly since it doesn't appear, or at least prior to Ion's statement, to mean anything in terms of design relevance.
To be honest, I think allied races in general are a mistake.

"It doesn't mean anything in terms of design?" Dude, Blood Elves were given green eyes because of design, to look different from what they were, noticeable different, not your "old high elves" but "new and more edgy." Green eyes mean a lot in terms of design for blood elves, as well as their favoring of golds, reds and blacks, it's the aesthetic identity they gave them to make them stand out and then justified in lore.

I don't agree AR are a mistake, but given that SL extra customization came so soon, it really shows a lack of foresight of what could have been expanded customization and what needed to be an AR.

They can stand the exact same as a night elf and you'd still see the difference between them and a night elf before noticing the way they stand.

Lol, no. Like I am sorry, but when the only difference between them is ear shape and slightly tweaked proportions it just comes across as disingenuous to say they are "noticeably different". It's like when people say VEs and BEs are different because you can see the tips of their ears being different color

When in the same pose, NE and NB females look almost exactly the same with the exception of ears and thigh thickness. Here's the thing, you put another humanoid in the same pose (VE female) and not even them look all that different, because they are still just another humanoid -still you can see the difference of armor size and body frame being larger than between NB and NE)

NB and NE are far more alike than people want to admit, and it's indeed their idle posture what makes them most different when it comes down to it. Animations IMO are the most important and striking way of making difference come across.

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It's just a bug, I don't think it means anything. But it's funny how it ended up coloring the character's head skin.

I mean it's just funny that entropic embrace makes you look more like a high elf now with the bug XD

[Broflake]

And why is it not logical?
It is part of their history, their heritage, it is even explicitly stated in wow (Elisande).
It's just a slightly smaller ear size to add in the personalization of the High Elves, it would make even more difference with their blood elf cousins.
And then there is the mag'har allied race which has had several clans in its customization, so it is surely possible to do the same by merging the high-elves / half-elves together.

No, it isn't, half elves represent the union of high elf and human or high elf and X. It is nothing in regards to high elves, and the half elves themselves are rare. You can't have two different races rolled into one. If that racial box says high elf, then its high elf. If it says half elf, then its a half elf and should look like Kalec. You don't get to have two races in one, it doesn't make sense.
Maghar orc clans are still orcs, just with different skin tones. They are still the base race of orc. They aren't nearly close to what you are requesting, unless you're trying to suggest being a different clan somehow means they are a different race.

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"It doesn't mean anything in terms of design?" Dude, Blood Elves were given green eyes because of design, to look different from what they were, noticeable different, not your "old high elves" but "new and more edgy." Green eyes mean a lot in terms of design for blood elves, as well as their favoring of golds, reds and blacks, it's the aesthetic identity they gave them to make them stand out and then justified in lore.

Except for the fact that blood elf DK's have blue eyes. If the matter of coloration was such a big deal, then they would have instead given the DK's red eyes or purple or green as standard. It is quite clear that the original design was indeed to represent their changes, but it hasn't been such a critical aspect that they were unwilling to give them different colors.
Otherwise, as I stated, DK's would have fel green eyes, and we would not have had golden eyes. Considering we have seen blood elves with blue eyes, I don't believe it was given critical thought until recently.

I don't agree AR are a mistake, but given that SL extra customization came so soon, it really shows a lack of foresight of what could have been expanded customization and what needed to be an AR.

I believe AR are a mistake because 3/4 of them could have been different options.
Vulpera and Zandalari troll set the standard of what should have been an "allied" race because of how dramatically different in appearance they appear.

Lol, no. Like I am sorry, but when the only difference between them is ear shape and slightly tweaked proportions it just comes across as disingenuous to say they are "noticeably different". It's like when people say VEs and BEs are different because you can see the tips of their ears being different color

When in the same pose, NE and NB females look almost exactly the same with the exception of ears and thigh thickness. Here's the thing, you put another humanoid in the same pose (VE female) and not even them look all that different, because they are still just another humanoid -still you can see the difference of armor size and body frame being larger than between NB and NE)

NB and NE are far more alike than people want to admit, and it's indeed their idle posture what makes them most different when it comes down to it. Animations IMO are the most important and striking way of making difference come across.

I would argue this is a disingenuous argument because when you look at the appearance of a nightborne MALE, the differences are much greater. If you noticed, the females in this game are given the laziest treatment.
For example, the zandalari female is a literal reskin of the troll female. You would not see any difference if they wore the same full armor despite having different dance animations. The only way you would know the difference is if you already knew what they were from the beginning.
Otherwise, you would just think "that jungle troll has a cool dance" even though its one of the zandalari.
Animations make the LEAST difference in terms of creating differentiation between races, and in fact, it is one the poorest arguments to use.
Human beings naturally gravitate towards these two aspects.

1. Color
2. Proportions.

Animations are literally the LAST thing focused on in terms of design because it makes such a minor difference in terms of perception.
Disagree? That is fine, but science says otherwise and games with different races that use the same animations also disagree with you.
Heck, even in the very screenshot you provide you can see the immediate difference in terms of proportions, as well as their ears.
Yeah, these changes may seem minor to you, but these minor differences are immediately present when you are looking at the model, and so they matter.

Aesthetics is an extremely important aspect, and this is why when you are present with different race options, you're shown how different they are right off the bat even though both zandalari female troll and jungle female troll use the same standing pose.

I mean it's just funny that entropic embrace makes you look more like a high elf now with the bug XD

I am not surprised to be honest. Void elves are literally just like female zandalari trolls and female nightborne. A texture swap.
Hell, I would not even be surprised if they got so lazy they just use a spell effect to create their appearance.