Official High Elf Discussion Megathread

[bobwuzhere1224]

Why whether the parent race's faction is the same or different matters for a model? You realise you are not making an argument here?



There are High Elves on the Alliance that exist and can continue the High Elf story.

Because Blood Elves and High Elves are the same Model. It makes zero sense for one side to get a brand new model and not the other. High Elves have not had a significant change to justify it. Any new model High Elves get would have to apply to Blood Elves and Void Elves. It doesn't make sense otherwise.

Why does this matter for factions? Because since Humans are the parent Race on the Alliance Kul Tirans are free to have a new model. If Blood Elves had originated on the Alliance, then High Elves could have a new model but since they originated on the Horde and nothing has been depicted to show a significant change/reason for High Elves to have a new model then it makes zero sense for them to get one.

Half Elves however make all the sense in the world to get a new model because they are Half Human and Half High Elf and can continue the story of High Elves without stepping on the toes of Models.

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So I guess half-blood elves are coming to Horde side aswell ? After all, Shaw and Valeera maybe have a love interest together, and Blood elves are coming back in Dalaran.

And blood elves are an Alliance race since we see Alliance blood elves in Telogrus Rift ? So Blood elves are slowly coming back to the Alliance.

Totally logical and obvious.

See ?

Makes sense to me.

[Frenchvince]

There are 3 half elves currently recorded and all are from the same family.

Just stop with that half elf nonsense.

Yes, and in these parents, there is a human and a high-elf Wundrunner.

It is more interesting to have the High Elf first as a playable race and / or customization option.

The half-elf could come later, as a customization option for humans and high-elves and / or as a playable "race", in the meantime, they are not relevant in the story, I do not see why they would be available before the high elves which is a much more popular request.

Ion did say that there would always be additions regarding the customization of the character and that they are not closing to the addition of new allied races.

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Yes, yes they are, that is literally what a hybrid is, which is a mix of two different species creating a new one.
Such as Ligers, and Tigons.

No...it isn't, because maghar and DID are not hybrids or anything., They belong to the same dwarf/troll race they are literally the same as a different ethnicity. So that's not a new race.
Hybrids are a new race because they have characteristics not found in either of their parents, are generally sterile, and have significant physiological differences that you cannot mistake the two.
So, no, we shouldn't try to slap a half elf model into the high elf category because not only is it demanding two races under one category which has never occurred, but it is also a lazy way of implementing it and deprives half elves from ever having their own story.


I would be fine with that, heck they can be half elf half dragon.
<.<

I'd play that...


No.
High elves are not the same race as half elves.
The moment you put them under the high elf race option they become a high elf, and then it begs to question why blood elves don't have such a variance despite being part of the same thing.
It creates far too many design issues, lore issues, and more.

Half elves should be their own thing.

What you blame here is unfortunately happening.
The wildhammer nevertheless deserved to be an allied breed with all the lore they have and yet they ended up as a customization option.
This is why the half-elves are not immune to end up with the same treatment, the high-elves also.

[bobwuzhere1224]

Yes, and in these parents, there is a human and a high-elf Wundrunner.

It is more interesting to have the High Elf first as a playable race and / or customization option.

The half-elf could come later, as a customization option for humans and high-elves and / or as a playable "race", in the meantime, they are not relevant in the story, I do not see why they would be available before the high elves which is a much more popular request.

Ion did say that there would always be additions regarding the customization of the character and that they are not closing to the addition of new allied races.

Not relevant until Blizzard decides they are. Which applies to pretty much everything.

[ddi2]

Because Blood Elves and High Elves are the same Model. It makes zero sense for one side to get a brand new model and not the other. High Elves have not had a significant change to justify it. Any new model High Elves get would have to apply to Blood Elves and Void Elves. It doesn't make sense otherwise.

Literally the same reasoning applies to Stormwind Humans and Kul'Tiran Humans.

Why does this matter for factions? Because since Humans are the parent Race on the Alliance Kul Tirans are free to have a new model. If Blood Elves had originated on the Alliance, then High Elves could have a new model but since they originated on the Horde and nothing has been depicted to show a significant change/reason for High Elves to have a new model then it makes zero sense for them to get one.

And what would happen if High elves do indeed get a new model? Angry bobwuzhere1224 will come to Ion's house and beat him up?

You still haven't explained why exactly a faction barrier makes it impossible to give a new model to an allied race in this situation. All your arguments why are still applicable to Kul'Tirans a well.

Half Elves however make all the sense in the world to get a new model because they are Half Human and Half High Elf and can continue the story of High Elves without stepping on the toes of Models.

Half Elves are not a separate race as per the game's terminology, they are not separate species, like Orcs and Trolls are, they are not a separate faction, like Stormwind Humans and Kul'Tiran Humans. You are asking to create a brand new race so that people who want a different race shut up. That's all that you are doing. And this reasoning makes creation of Half-Elves simply stupid.

[Frenchvince]

Not relevant until Blizzard decides they are. Which applies to pretty much everything.

We all know here that it is Blizzard who has the last word.

But both parents of the half-elves should both be available as a playable breed before.
For humans it's already done, we wait for the high elves, and then we can have family reunions
in RP mode in human capitals.

[bobwuzhere1224]

Literally the same reasoning applies to Stormwind Humans and Kul'Tiran Humans.



And what would happen if High elves do indeed get a new model? Angry bobwuzhere1224 will come to Ion's house and beat him up?

You still haven't explained why exactly a faction barrier makes it impossible to give a new model to an allied race in this situation. All your arguments why are still applicable to Kul'Tirans a well.



Half Elves are not a separate race as per the game's terminology, they are not separate species, like Orcs and Trolls are, they are not a separate faction, like Stormwind Humans and Kul'Tiran Humans. You are asking to create a brand new race so that people who want a different race shut up. That's all that you are doing. And this reasoning makes creation of Half-Elves simply stupid.

It does not apply to SW Humans and KT Humans because they are on the same Faction. Blood Elves and High Elves are not. High Elves and Blood Elves are the same in Lore and Model wise. High Elves have not been shown to have any significant change that would justify a model change. Any Model changes they get have to be applied to Blood Elves since they are the same race.

In regards to factions since you haven't gotten it by now. Humans started on the Alliance, there Allied Race: Kul Tirans get to have a model change because the Parent Race is on the same faction. Blood Elves are a parent Race to Void Elves. Void Elves were already cross faction to Alliance in exchange for Nightborne with both having a significant change to justify the cross faction. That's it, one and done. Blizzard isn't going to give the Alliance another playable Blood Elf model Allied Race because it's not fair to the Parent Race.

So to recap High Elves can't get a model change without changing Blood Elves too since they are the same race unless a significant change occurs, nor can they be added as an Allied Race to the Alliance as they currently are.

Half Elves squash all these concerns that Antis have while continuing the High Elf story on the Alliance. I'm not asking to create a brand new race when that already exists and just needs to be expanded on. It's a literal win/win for both sides that makes perfect sense.

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We all know here that it is Blizzard who has the last word.

But both parents of the half-elves should both be available as a playable breed before.
For humans it's already done, we wait for the high elves, and then we can have family reunions
in RP mode in human capitals.

I don't have confidence in Blizzard waiting for High Elves when several opportunities to add them as playable have come and gone already.

[Frenchvince]

I don't have confidence in Blizzard waiting for High Elves when several opportunities to add them as playable have come and gone already.

They did not add the high elves but they still did not say "no, they will never be available", the door is still open on the side of the alliance, it just closed for the horde and the blood elves for now.

[bobwuzhere1224]

They did not add the high elves but they still did not say "no, they will never be available", the door is still open on the side of the alliance, it just closed for the horde and the blood elves for now.

You're right they didn't say that, they just drove by several prime opportunities to add them and chose not to. Of course "anything is possible" but that's just like standard PR speak to avoid saying "No." to your customers.

[ddi2]

It does not apply to SW Humans and KT Humans because they are on the same Faction. Blood Elves and High Elves are not. High Elves and Blood Elves are the same in Lore and Model wise. High Elves have not been shown to have any significant change that would justify a model change. Any Model changes they get have to be applied to Blood Elves since they are the same race.

In regards to factions since you haven't gotten it by now. Humans started on the Alliance, there Allied Race: Kul Tirans get to have a model change because the Parent Race is on the same faction. Blood Elves are a parent Race to Void Elves. Void Elves were already cross faction to Alliance in exchange for Nightborne with both having a significant change to justify the cross faction. That's it, one and done. Blizzard isn't going to give the Alliance another playable Blood Elf model Allied Race because it's not fair to the Parent Race.

So to recap High Elves can't get a model change without changing Blood Elves too since they are the same race unless a significant change occurs, nor can they be added as an Allied Race to the Alliance as they currently are.

Don't repeat over and over again why you think High Elves can't get new models, answer my question finally, why faction barrier matter for this? You are still yet to answer this. "Because it does" is not an argument.

Also, look, Void Elves can have beards. Void Elves were Blood Elves, like, yesterday. Did they only now learn to grow them? Well, obviously not and that means that Blood Elves even now can have such beard in lore, but not in game. Why? Because gameplay. And the faction barrier didn't somehow prevent Blizzard from doing this.

[Frenchvince]

You're right they didn't say that, they just drove by several prime opportunities to add them and chose not to. Of course "anything is possible" but that's just like standard PR speak to avoid saying "No." to your customers.

Nothing is finished for them, as long as there is one or more high elves present in the history of the alliance.
That is why the demand is always there.

[bobwuzhere1224]

Don't repeat over and over again why you think High Elves can't get new models, answer my question finally, why faction barrier matter for this? You are still yet to answer this. "Because it does" is not an argument.

Also, look, Void Elves can have beards. Void Elves were Blood Elves, like, yesterday. Did they only now learn to grow them? Well, obviously not and that means that Blood Elves even now can have such beard in lore, but not in game. Why? Because gameplay. And the faction barrier didn't somehow prevent Blizzard from doing this.

I literally explained the faction barrier thing to you several times. I gave you prime examples as to why. You not understanding it despite having it explained to you repeatedly is your problem, not the problem of my argument when it's clear as day.

Grats Void elves have beards. Know who else has facial hair updates? Kul Tirans and now with extended customizations regular Humans in addition to scars. Because the Parent Race and the Allied Race are on the same faction. And Beards are a pointless thing to bring up about Blood Elves considering their customizations are not even online yet, so we have no idea what they are truly getting.

Here's what we do know tho. Any Model changes Blood Elves get would have to be applied to High Elves and thus vice versa you know since they are the same race without any significant changes to separate them. Void Elves had a significant change.

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Nothing is finished for them, as long as there is one or more high elves present in the history of the alliance.
That is why the demand is always there.

There comes a point when you have to realize the demand isn't getting you anywhere and have to accept the inevitable.

[Frenchvince]

There comes a point when you have to realize the demand isn't getting you anywhere and have to accept the inevitable.

I continue to live normally you know, I have my main character (a void elf) who patiently awaits his new high-elf customization or his paid race change.
It is necessary to continue to make the request of the high elves, even if Blizzard is aware.

[bobwuzhere1224]

I continue to live normally you know, I have my main character (a void elf) who patiently awaits his new high-elf customization or his paid race change.
It is necessary to continue to make the request of the high elves, even if Blizzard is aware.

Maybe Blizzard will be nice and give in. But it doesn't seem like it's the case with all their missed opportunities that would have made total sense.

[Obelisk Kai]

You're not answering to my comment about the Scarlet crusade. Why ? Because it actually makes your argument "but if she says that then that must be true" a bit ridiculeous ?

Is Anduin Sylvanas' lover because the Scarlet Crusade states it ?

This is a fairly weak response. The Scarlet Crusade are producing outlandish propaganda nonsense that we know is fake because we have the novels containing the character's internal monologues as well as our own interactions with those characters in game.

The reason I didn't engage with you bringing it up is that I regarded it as an exceptionally weak retort.

Elisande's response is consistent across all three groups. What she tells each of them are not lies, but her perspective on what each group is doing. And what she says about the exiles is consistent with word of god regarding them assimilating into other cultures. Forming romantic relationships with humans was, and likely still is, taboo in Quel'thalas.

A bit like blue-eyed blood elves happening, isn't it ?

Not really, no.

I'm not hostile. This isn't just happening.

We have three examples of half elf kids among the exiles that show that it has happened. We have zero examples of pure blooded high elf exile babies. The evidence seems to support the proposition.

[MyWholeLifeIsThunder]

This dismissive argument does not work as I went into further detail explaining why.
VE and BE DK's look almost the same, but the tentacles and skin tones create a rather stark difference.

The point is that you can pick the closest possible options and they just look like like the same race with different options, come on man. The point is that DK's have their own aesthetic that triumphs over racial ones -blue eyes- I really don't get what you are arguing against here.

I am not discounting KT in terms of being different. Merely that people's perception was "oh its just a big human" because well, we're all human. If it had been the same model, but with giant teeth and marketed as Drukari or something, people would have thought it a new race. Tiny differences do big things.

Irrelevant; the point is that whether KT's are human or not, their model is completely new. Like I agree if they had been ogres with that model they should be a new race, but I guess they fit the AR slot because they reused human fantasy.

Their standing animations are nearly exact if not exact because they are a palette swap with an ear switch. Animations do not make much of a difference because the very first thing highlighted in terms of their appearance is presented in the character menu.
You're trying to argue that basic game design relies on animations as a method of dictating differnt races when it really does not.
Look at games such as Elderscrolls where everyone uses the exact same animation. How do you know the difference between a Breton and an Imperial?
At the character select screen and that's it, and those differences are minor.
You still know they are different though because of height and slight differences in their faces.
No one cares about animations because like I said, they are the last thing to be built.

Dude, just no, you keep saying animation doesn't matter and it's all about proportions when I have shown you proof of how varely negligible the proportions between NB females are and the most striking difference is their idle stance. Like IDK how else to put it but you are just wrong about this.

Sure I can, because despite what you think, the very first thing that tells you an asian is different from caucasian is their facial features and not the way they stand.
You take a nightborne female and a night elf female, slap two handers on them and have them go to town on the mob in full armor.
Their animations are the EXACT same and so the only difference you focus on are those of the bodily proportions and the ears.

Come on, as if you really can differentiate them at mid distance for proportions alone. It's the ears.

And I agree about the reused bulk of the animations; NE and NB are only strikingly different on idle pose. When you see them move they look the same! This is not a point in favor of your argument.

I suggested this a long time ago and people kept shooting the idea down.
There is a LOT of potential.
Think about it, half elf just means you are half elf.
It doesnt say what elf type it is, or what the other part may be.
Half night elf/human? GET THEM PURPLE SKINS!
Half high elf/half gnome? HOBBIT!

<_<

Just saying I like the idea because it can go beyond the standard fantasy trope. It could go tiefling route.

No wonder you got shot down if this is how you present the idea jeez.

Like I could see half elves working, human/high elf that is, because one, humans and kaldorei -and any other alliance race- haven't cohabitated for long enough to be a thing, and high elves and gnomes? Come on dude, how is that a genuine idea?

[elbleuet]

This is a fairly weak response. The Scarlet Crusade are producing outlandish propaganda nonsense that we know is fake because we have the novels containing the character's internal monologues as well as our own interactions with those characters in game.

The reason I didn't engage with you bringing it up is that I regarded it as an exceptionally weak retort.

Elisande's response is consistent across all three groups. What she tells each of them are not lies, but her perspective on what each group is doing. And what she says about the exiles is consistent with word of god regarding them assimilating into other cultures. Forming romantic relationships with humans was, and likely still is, taboo in Quel'thalas.

And Elisande shielded herself under a dome during 10 thousands years. She's not reliable at all except for you because all is good to make the High elves look neutral/dieing/Horde

We have three examples of half elf kids among the exiles that show that it has happened. We have zero examples of pure blooded high elf exile babies. The evidence seems to support the proposition.

We also have examples of Alliance blood elves in Telogrus Rift. Also Valeera and Shaw seem to hold a mutual love interest. Alliance half-blood elves and Alliance blood elves are definitely coming.

This discussion is pure nonsense.

[Strippling]

She was provoking her ennemies. Nothing more.

And the Silver Covenant did not defend themselves when she made that comment. If it were blatantly false one would think the SC would have made that known, given they were there to deny said facts.

I'm sorry but on this one I don't even know what there is to argue. She literally stated an observation, one that was not denied by Vareesa or her team present. It's in-game, it wasn't refuted, it's an official source.

And Anduin is Sylvanas' lover since the Scarlet crusade says so. Okay.

Firstly, the difference between the Scarlet crusade messages and Elisande's is one is written in secrecy (as a conspiracy), the other was a comment said directly to the group involved (ie. silver covenant).. in which said group had every opportunity to refute the claim but they did not, implying it is true.

Secondly, based on your logic then almost anything said in game shouldn't be taken serious as it could be a lie, or a provocation...

[FlubberPuddy]

That's a very interesting point really; even Night Elves and Nightborne are as well too magical, either by Elune and Druidism or Arcane.

High Elves could fill that niche of a more "grounded" or "practical" elf, where the iconic archetype focus on the wilds ranger or the marksman, all of this who harkens back to their initial appearance in War2. This is not saying that other elf groups don't have rangers, but that none of them have them as a priority at this point -I feel I have been making this argument for years heh-

As someone that also loves blood elves, high elves just fill a different niche. The BE are all about the reclaimed opulence, the "comeback", and being extra about it. I love that about BE's aesthetically. High Elves are the opposite in a way, the dogpiled that were left kinda lost and barely remain by either assimilating into humans or clinging to specific aspects of their culture, that they have to believe they made the right choice because that's all they have really.

Thematically High Elves could be so interesting and they are already there in the world, as I have said multiple times, playability is not an issue about lore, but merely gameplay design.

Yeah the bolds are the major points I've been trying to get across.

People tell others to "just play blood elves they're the same race" but that doesn't account for that option's story is completely NOT the story/lore/character people want to play.

It's like always telling others to make a dark grey skin bronzebeard dwarf and play that instead of Dark Iron. Or telling Orc players that wanted Mag'har go play the orc and RP as Mag'har.

It misses the point that there's these differences that exist, that the game recognizes it exists, and people want to play the options with those differences there.

But honestly it is okay, the more the developers delve into making miniscule changes (I mean we are literally getting neck-jewelry and body jewelry options) for differentiation of your character then the easier things like High Elves become in my option.

Because what Blizzard is indirectly saying by adding those options in is that these minor appearance differences matter. Ion's comment on blood elves not getting the blue eyes because it doesn't make sense for them is another statement where Blizzard is showing 'minor appearance differences matter'.

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Snip

Not bothering anymore, @ddi2 pretty much said it all as well.

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All the high-elf fan art will inevitably be a source of inspiration for Blizzard.
The customization options of the Farstrider or Alleria archer style that we often see on these fan art, are not available for blood elves. The door is therefore always open for the high elves as a future allied race.

I found this on twitter, a real magician this guy.


https://twitter.com/valarynn/status/1259385391557337088

A different position changes everything, as was the case with the nightborne.

This is amazing and pretty much what they did for Nightborne. Maybe add a bit more muscle to that left idle model so they're more muscular/built than a Blood Elf but less so than a Night Elf and we have a High Elf model that is akin to Nightborne changes where the essence of the appearance is the same, but denotes a very different culture/set of beliefs.

Nice find! And thank goodness for their work.

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I misread what you wrote. To correct myself, yes I agree that twitter statements are official statements if the post is made on behalf of Blizzard and not as a personal opinion.

No problem!

[bobwuzhere1224]

And Elisande shielded herself under a dome during 10 thousands years. She's not reliable at all except for you because all is good to make the High elves look neutral/dieing/Horde



We also have examples of Alliance blood elves in Telogrus Rift. Also Valeera and Shaw seem to hold a mutual love interest. Alliance half-blood elves and Alliance blood elves are definitely coming.

This discussion is pure nonsense.

Elisande deals with Time Magic and seeing into the future, in case you forgot. Living under a dome for 10,000 years with that kind of power would mean she would know what's going on in the world of Elves. And being of Royal Birth within that race of Elves she could easily make those perspectives based on how Night Elves/Highborne used to be vs. now. It has nothing to do with making High Elves look neutral/dying/Horde.

You can't call it nonsense when it's a logical conclusion to make.

[Obelisk Kai]

Not bothering anymore, @ddi2 pretty much said it all as well.

Ddi2 is also wrong. Attempting to pretend opposition to your request is motivated by bitterness or spite or sheer obtuseness seems to be a way of not fully engaging with why the request wasn't fulfilled whereas the equally long standing request for Mag'har Orcs was and without issue.