Official High Elf Discussion Megathread

[MyWholeLifeIsThunder]

Well, it looks like the devs have given up this idea of no new customization options for Allied Races until later on. Apparently, even the first pass will be getting them. Another anti argument bites the dust!

https://www.wowhead.com/news=316035/...ization-oribos

Honestly that's just labeling the options.

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Very relevant, because perception is key. It being new doesn't mean much. It is how it is presented.
Do you believe anyone thinks a Vulpera is just a goblin with a hair problem?
Or that they are perceived as a new race?

Yet Vulpera reuse goblin assets; that's what I see as the throughline of AR; there's something being reused here, whether it is fantasy (Zandalari, Kulturans) or assets (Vulpera) or both (the rest). Assets in this meaning animations and geometry. If Vulpera had an unique model they would be a new race, but it's clear they reuse the female gob model almost wholesale, so I think we all agree why they are an AR and not a Core Race.

You keep trying to assert this but it does not work and there is nothing to support you.
We have decades worth of game design and more, and I have provided them to you.
If animations were nearly as important as you believed them to be, then why have they been considered irrelevant by everyone including Blizzard itself?
Frankly, its disingenuous of you to suggest animations are so important, but then notice those seemingly negligible differences.

Sure you can. If you see a tall, lanky looking figure next to a fuller one, its clearly a nightborne vs a night elf.
For the females, its largely the ears and proportions. Don't understimate the tiny diferences.
Let alone, you acknowledging the move the same only further demonstrates how irrelevant they are as an identifying tribute. Which was my point. To weaken your position and further mine through alternative points.

But the problem is that the models are just simply not different enough at all , and thus is the posture what actually makes the difference. You can point out to game design all you want, what I am telling you is that IMO the model difference between NB and NE females is just negligible and is the posture -which is also part of what you are referring to game design. what ACTUALLY makes the difference.

I think the point here is mostly that I think that the most noticeable difference is posture, and you say it's proportion. All I can say is that it is subjective to a point, but that I legit think you are wrong with how little the difference in proportion between NB and NE female models actually is. I can not point to something I consider apparent if you don't see it any more than I have done.

I didn't, this is just an assumption on your part to be dramatic.

My point was that half elves have potential, not that they should include half gnomes. Why not ask for clarification rather than make an assumption?

Honestly that was just about "hobbits" being a bit ridiculous to introduce now. I do agree about Half Elves tho, you know that.

[Vaedan]

I wanted playable alliance high elves since classic. I still think that addition of blood elves to the Horde actually hurt the faction identity of the Horde and even after all these years, I still feel they don't fit in. While I play blood elf on the Horde, I feel really inappropriate while going to Orgrimmar or Thunder Bluff. It just don't feel right.

Horde has been about tribal thematics, underdog feelings and having to fight for your place in the world. Alliance was about high culture, civilised way of living and self righteous point of view. In this, blood elves on the Horde diluted faction divide to some degree and Blizzard changed what a Horde faction is about, and all this only to give fancy race to the Horde. They did exactly what now anti-helfers are claiming addition of high elves would do, but in reality, adding High Elves would not give Alliance something that is Horde by default. It would just give them theme which actually aligns with their thematics. I don't say Horde can't have pretty fancy race. I think zandalari does this in a way more in tune with Horde thematics than blood elves will ever do.

We have void elves now. The only possible scenario when we have void and high elves playable is that void elves will be pushed more towards outlandish, mysterious race which gives up on their origins, while the high elves would define themselves by tradition and keeping their roots pure and clean. I suspect we will get another compromise in more customization for void elves to push the high elf feeling.

[bobwuzhere1224]

Honestly that's just labeling the options.

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Yet Vulpera reuse goblin assets; that's what I see as the throughline of AR; there's something being reused here, whether it is fantasy (Zandalari, Kulturans) or assets (Vulpera) or both (the rest). Assets in this meaning animations and geometry. If Vulpera had an unique model they would be a new race, but it's clear they reuse the female gob model almost wholesale, so I think we all agree why they are an AR and not a Core Race.




But the problem is that the models are just simply not different enough at all , and thus is the posture what actually makes the difference. You can point out to game design all you want, what I am telling you is that IMO the model difference between NB and NE females is just negligible and is the posture -which is also part of what you are referring to game design. what ACTUALLY makes the difference.

I think the point here is mostly that I think that the most noticeable difference is posture, and you say it's proportion. All I can say is that it is subjective to a point, but that I legit think you are wrong with how little the difference in proportion between NB and NE female models actually is. I can not point to something I consider apparent if you don't see it any more than I have done.



Honestly that was just about "hobbits" being a bit ridiculous to introduce now. I do agree about Half Elves tho, you know that.

The ears being different is what stands out to me most when seeing a NE and NB side by side. I don't even think about posture.

[Obelisk Kai]

They have not actually. April 2018 is the last time any Blizzard official comes up with how come no playable High Elves yet and ends with "No plans in the near term for High Elves as an Allied Race".

Ever since that, everytime High Elves were asked about, either in the form of options for void elves, blue eyes on blood elves, or even just as an allied race - all the answers have not been "doubling down against it again and again"

The rationale given in the 2018 rejection was fairly comprehensive regarding the importance of faction diversity. The importance of the faction divide was restated several times across 2019, most noticeably at Blizzcon in regards to forum chatter regarding the faction barrier weakening as a result of BFA. However Ion was asked by Forbes in an interview in May 2019 regarding the possibility of a PVE equivalent to Mercenary mode and he essentially stated wha they repeated six months later at Blizzcon. The importance of the factions is highlighted again and again, and keeping them diverse is a critical part of that.

1) Afrasiabi during Blizzcon 2018 (AFTER April 2018 Q&A) asked if Void Elves could get High Elf options for that "High Elf fantasy" he states it's possible then EMPHASIZES "Don't give up hope" (and go watch this again he does not afterward go into a longer explanation on forum etiquette, that comes BEFORE he answers the High Elf related question).

Afrasiabi was not asked about high elves. He was asked about Void Elves getting high elf like customisation. A Void Elf with high elf like customisation still isn't a traditional high elf.
Secondly, he merely said it was possible, which is the sole reason the idea has been given any consideration in this thread whatsoever. However, this draws a parallel with an interview Ion did in 2013 where, when asked about a sub-race system, he mentioned high elves as well as mag'har orcs. Just because something is possible does not mean it is probable or even likely. Given the rationale laid out for the rejection of blue eyes on blood elves, it would be beyond strange for void elves to get high elf like customisations now as that violates the same principles Ion laid out as to why blood elves didn't get blue eyes.

And yes, I've watched the video several times over the years since it was made, the main point of his response was taken up forum etiquette. Even his 'don't give up hope' line you placed great store in seems to be a call to keep their conduct cool and respectful, rather than to rage at the unfairness of it all.

2) Ion during Blizzcon 2018 also asked about High Elves on the show floor, responds saying "the door hasn't closed" "just because they won't be in BFA doesn't mean they won't be in wow ever"

That we know Dark skin Blood Elves were asked on the showfloor is proof that developers don't simply 'lie/sugarcoat' etc w/e you want to call it to ensure a fan is having a good time at a convention. Did that developer who told the fan not want to ruin his time at Blizzcon sugarcoat that Dark skin Blood Elves were coming? No, he was given an honest answer.

Thus it seems strange to think Ion's not giving an honest answer on the showfloor as well.

Do you have a transcript of what was said? Or a recording? No, you don't. What you have is the recollection of a pro high elfer who typed out several hours after the fact what he recalls was said. The pro high elfer who reported might even believe it was fairly accurate, but nuance is a funny thing and answers can be carefully parsed for deeper meanings.

As I have mentioned before, a friend of mine worked for Blizzard in the past and did work like this at the World Wide Invitational in Paris. They are trained on fan interaction. Ion simply repeated what he said in the 2018 rejection but, yes, he did sugarcoat it because he was being nice to a fan whose day he wasn't out to ruin with a nasty interaction. After all, you don't know who is recording what these days and a bad interaction could be on the web within a few minutes and become a PR nightmare for the company if the wrong thing is said.

The 2018 showfloor conversation therefore is cankered by the fact Ion would have been restricted by company guidelines, the human need not to ruin someone's day and the fact it was a very brief conversation reported several hours after the fact from a source whose outlook was biased on the outcome.

As for the fan who asked about dark skinned blood elves, if that person was going to be upset by the addition of dark skin tones to Blood Elves I have zero sympathy if their day was ruined or not. There is also the fact that it is easier to obfuscate and be nice about a hypothetical that likely isn't going to happen than it is about something that is coming and pertains to the feature you've just announced.

3) Ion 2 years later, on blood elves getting blue eyes CONFIRMS they are not getting it as that customization option wouldn't make sense for them. If Blizzard were continually "doubling down against it again and again" you would think BE would've gotten blue eyes as that's the sense some people got from Ion's April 2018 Q&A statement on going with Void Elves over High Elves. BUT NOPE!

Some Blood Elves do have blue eyes, as Lanesh canonically proves. However it not being offered as a customisation does not change the initial rejection on Blood Elves being high elves, particularly as the eye colour difference was actually cited in that rejection as one of the few differences that did in fact exist.

They have stopped "doubling down against it again and again" ever since 2 years ago. Not once have they ever referred back to that interview when asked about High Elves, in any form, and Ion has never repeated those statements he made back 2 years ago nor has any other Blizzard employee.

My guess is the absolute storm of hypocrisy that was pointed out across many different media personalities and on the forums made them realize how much of a misunderstood response they gave and thus have not decided to engage on it again.

It's different from with how the answer to cross-faction at Blizzcon 2019 was always a rote 'no' response giving the exact same reasons from various different employees as if all had rehearsed the exact same lines to tell people. Which then flipped flopped fast not a couple months later where Patrick Dawson admits they've been internally testing it and it does seem a cool idea but nothing to announce atm.

As pointed out in the past, several high elf topics on the official forums were closed as spam and in the response to a query as to why they were closed, the CM advised that the topic had been addressed by Ion in the past. That CM was a Blizzard employee.

And your 'guess' as to why they haven't commented on it again does seemingly have the appealing virtue of proving you right. I can understand why you find it appealing as your guess.

Here's a different take. They don't need to continually reference themselves on the topic, the last word on it is good enough. It has been reinforced though by their restatement of the importance of the faction divide across 2019 and the rejection of a pve equivalent to mercenary mode.

And Patrick Dawson's comment merely confirms they experimented with it internally to see what it feels like. Given the rejection at Blizzcon it is safe to say the results of that internal testing were not great. He also deployed the standard platitude regarding a hypothetical they aren't actively looking at 'In the future, you never know what is going to happen!'.

"doesn't make sense" is another way to say it's illogical. Don't know how else to explain it. Ion didn't just say "we're not giving blue eyes because we don't want to do it, even if it is logical/makes sense".

No, he explained why it didn't make sense in lore. But until that point was clarified the request was based on a logical interpretation of the lore as we understood it until the zoltan interview.

Let me point out the Question and Danuser's response to which I'm assuming is what you consider Lanesh's blue eyes to be canonical.

https://twitter.com/SteveDanuser/sta...87595542433792

Question:"I know you probably wont see this question, or know the answer (Because its still a mystery) but do you happen to know who "exactly" Lanesh the Steelweaver is, and why he has blue eyes?

Steve Danuser's response: "I did see this, and I do know who he is. Would rather not delve into character backgrounds here, as someday there might be an opportunity to tell the tale in game. That's always more satisfying than an off-the-cuff tweet. "

Nowhere is he confirming that blue eyes is canonical/does make sense for Lanesh. He's simply saying he knows the character.

Nothing here is saying his blue eyes are canonical. This is just like when Anti-helf folks thought Ion's statement in April 2018 meant Blue Eyes were coming to Blood Elves and that Blood Elves would get all colors of the rainbow for their eye color options.

Your own assumptions are not canonical. The girl asked two questions in one sentence, Steve replied to the first bit


The "would not delve into character backgrounds as someday there might be an opportunity to tell the tale in game" is another way of saying "we have no plans to do anything with this guy atm, but in case we ever do I'd rather not confirm or deny anything right now."

The strong implication of course being that Lanesh's blue eyes are deliberate and there is a reason he has them because after all, that is the reason he stands out from other Blood Elves. Had it just been a bug, all he had to say was that it was a bug or not comment. Some Blood Elves do have blue eyes. Even the Warcraft encyclopedia confirmed that some of the exiles who attempted to hold out eventually gave in and went home so it is not as if there is no canonical source for blue eyed Blood Elves, merely that they aren't numerous.

If you wish to continue believing this you may, that doesn't mean the rest of us have to. I always figured it'd be a long road till we got to High Elves, because most of the customizations are big and in your face for the race options.

But as I told another poster here, that we're getting body jewelry/neck jewelry means Blizzard are now opening customization options to include minute details, and it's in those minute details that High Elves can more easily be differentiated. Just how iconic Wildhammers are simply from having blue tattoos. They don't need much else, 99% of players will go "that's a wildhammer dwarf!" by something so subtle.

Just like people for years prior to parroting Ion's 2018 comment knew that blue eyes = High Elf and green eyes = Blood Elf. The subtle differentiation was all it took, but from a playable race standpoint didn't exist -> until increased customizations.

Wildhammers are not being added to the game as a distinct option. Instead, Dwarves are being expanded to encompass Wildhammer options. A Dwarf with Wildhammer customisations is not obligated to identity as a Wildhammer. They made decide they are a Bronzebeard with wildhammer affectations. The reason the Dwarf can be expanded to encompass the Wildhammer though is that the Wildhammer Dwarves and the Bronzebeard Dwarves are biologically identical with no other differentiations.

And it is worth pointing out that the differences in Wildhammer and Bronzebeard aesthetics are the results of three centuries of separation. Blood Elves and the exiles have been separated for just over a decade. And whereas the Wildhammer and Bronzebeards have seen several generations live and die in that time, the Blood Elves and the exiles can individually live for millenia. There hasn't been the time or even the likely inclination for them to differentiate on minute details.

Which even presumes that minute details are enough of a basis. They aren't, that's why Wildhammer are being expressed through ordinary Dwarf customisations rather than as a stand alone race.

Blue eyes were not denied to Blood Elves to placate pro high elf fans. They were denied on the only rationale they would be denied on, inconsistency with the lore. But they are still not enough for a basis as a stand alone race. What they will do is accentuate the differences between Void Elves, who have blue eyes, and Blood Elves, who have green/gold. The more points of differentiation between those two groups, the better.

And increased customizations doesn't pre-clude more allied races or standard races from ever being added.

Never said they would. But there will always be a more interesting option than adding something looks 95% like a Void Elf to the Alliance. Sethrak, Jinyu, Ankoan, Sabreon, Botani, Tuskarr, Drakonids, Ethereals...each and every one a better choice merely by being a genuinely new option.

Actually it did, which is why now you have the folks who kept memeing that blood elves would have blue eyes now want the High Elves to get Golden Eyes. No one was saying that before when Golden Eyes were released for Blood Elves. No one.

It's a reaction to Ion's statement, because that statement affirms blue eyes are for High Elves (and/or Void Elves) - main point blue eyes aren't for blood elves.

I've been saying the exiles should get golden eyes for years and they probably will in the fullness of time given their biology and lore. But it will probably take longer than wow's time frame for it to occur.

Bolded an extra bit you gloss over "kind of are" does not mean "they are exactly the same". When Ion says "kind of" it means difference and he explains it as such when he continues.

Yes, he did explain it. He listed two differences. One was the eye colour, which he recently restated (i.e supports the status quo) and the second was the philosophical split over what to do without the sunwell. The second point being resolved with the restoration. Which leaves the eye colour. And the context of his response was that those minute differences didn't matter, Blood Elves are the high elf option of the game.

No one is obligated to do that lol, it's a 'gotcha' attempt you're doing because of being snubbed by Ion's comment. The only people who says those kinds of things are those that are disappointed by the comment Ion made and are now trying to retaliate in their own way towards High Elf fans who got vindication there.

That seems to be an illogical way of looking at things, and it is illogical because it applies one standard to something you didn't want and another standard to something you do.

Ion ruled out blue eyes for Blood Elves because he said they were inconsistent with the lore. The logical extrapolation of that is that if something is incompatible with a race, it will not be offered as a customisation. This is increasingly borne out as the alpha rolls on and we haven't seen things like goblin gilgoblin customisations, or nathanos like undead, or undead elves, or Eredar skins on Draenei, or Night Elf Worgen.

To celebrate blue eyes not being given to Blood Elves, but to still fully expect your own personal hope of being able to use a Void Elf as a vector for the high elf fantasy through the addition of normal tones, is inconsistent.

Ion can make incorrect statements and correct statements. Believing he is incorrect one time and correct another is frankly okay, no one has to believe every single thing that comes out of a person's mouth, nor has to think everything they say is a lie either.

People do it all it the time with their own circle of friends/family, that's what the word 'misunderstood' is for.

This statement is a license for cherry-picking the facts which you like from the facts you don't. It undermines the integrity of your argument stance if you are declaring you will only accept what the developers say if you agree with it.

Ion was not conversing with family or friends. He was conducting a professional interview in his role as a game director, a role in which he is keenly aware his words will be parsed and examined by a community looking for answers and often too willing to take offence.

A common thread running throughout my own critique of your arguments has been your unerring ability to seemingly hear what you want to hear and to receive confirmations where other people would see denials. That you admit here you are willing to discount statements that don't agree with what you want, and to embrace those you agree with, essentially confirms that critique.

The only course of action with regards to developer statements is to treat them as true until such time as they change their minds and let us know. Nobody can decide to arbitrate what is true and what is not outside of Blizzard.

Ion was legit shown a picture of Vereesa with her Silver Covenant faction rep and title of Ranger-General when the blue eyes question was brought up. He legit was being shown a High Elf of a prominent faction (prominent as in they're an attainable rep for Alliance players) with blue eyes when answering that question.

Zoltan and Cinderys didn't put up Lanesh up there, and Ion had to answer that question knowing he was looking at a High Elf - that's the funniest thing about it.

I think you would be offended at the implications of them asking about blue eyes for Blood Elves and Ion being shown a picture of Veressa as an example. It implies that the members of the same race can be seen as relatively interchangable.

[delus]

I do like that they are making blood elves different from high elves in both culture and physical appearance. Now what they need to do is make blood elves into zealots.

[Lahis]

I do like that they are making blood elves different from high elves in both culture and physical appearance. Now what they need to do is make blood elves into zealots.

Well they're literally powered by The Light these days. Should happen sooner or later.

[FlubberPuddy]

I think you would be offended at the implications of them asking about blue eyes for Blood Elves and Ion being shown a picture of Veressa as an example. It implies that the members of the same race can be seen as relatively interchangable.

Lol nope! Because it's obvious to everyone and their moms and grandmas that the reason that question was brought up is because of the High Elf request, Cinderys herself a self-proclaimed Alliance fan. Just like when High Elf skin customizations were asked for Void Elves, it's implications are related to the existence of the High Elf request - not simply because it's an idea for Void Elves.

You seem to point out implications whenever they suit you, but then ignore obvious ones when they don't.

My speculation is had Ion said blue eyes were for the blood elves, they would've followed up on asking about High Elves. Since he instead made a response that took everyone by surprise by actually confirming it wasn't coming AND explaining why it was not, they need not ask any further other than it's for NPCs.

Also English is not her first language and she's nervous so it's forgivable how Cinderys uses her words! MA GIRL wanted Lightforged Forsaken as well. "ONE OF US" as people would say!

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I do like that they are making blood elves different from high elves in both culture and physical appearance. Now what they need to do is make blood elves into zealots.

Yes I hope further differentiation happens, by this I mean they should get runic tattoos like on the cover of the TBC box



Save warpaint for High Elves (or at least don't give em the iconic High Elf blue ones)

[MyWholeLifeIsThunder]

The ears being different is what stands out to me most when seeing a NE and NB side by side. I don't even think about posture.

I mean that's a given, the point being made is that the models themselves are just very very similar proportion wise. If you gave a NE model NB ears, what would it look to you? I think we can all agree it's just not one thing that makes them "sufficiently" different but the incremental value of all of them put together, I just personally think the changes in proportion -the model itself- is the less relevant one, but it all works -ears, posture and proportion- to change the basic silhouette of the character to come across not just like another NE.

Again, the whole point is that INDEED these small changes work and make NB look unique enough, so my point here is that it can be used for other races/groups.

[Obelisk Kai]

I mean that's a given, the point being made is that the models themselves are just very very similar proportion wise. If you gave a NE model NB ears, what would it look to you? I think we can all agree it's just not one thing that makes them "sufficiently" different but the incremental value of all of them put together, I just personally think the changes in proportion -the model itself- is the less relevant one, but it all works -ears, posture and proportion- to change the basic silhouette of the character to come across not just like another NE.

Again, the whole point is that INDEED these small changes work and make NB look unique enough, so my point here is that it can be used for other races/groups.

Yet the issue then cycles back to one of lore and intent. The incremental changes that separate Nightborne from Night Elves are their different ears, skin tone, hair colour and posture, all of which are by-products of their ten thousand years of isolation under the dome and the transformative power of the nightwell. Critically, the vast majority of these changes are biological. Every allied race is differentiated from their parent by something on a biological level, which explains why the Dark Iron Dwarves with their ashen skin tones and flaming eyes are an Allied race, whereas all Wildhammer Dwarves are getting is an expression through ordinary Dwarven tattoo options.

The thing is that the process you describe was ultimately applied to Blood/High Elves and the result was Void Elves. In truth, the Void Elves are very, very close to Blood/High Elves. What are the realistic model differences? A unique skin tone range, unique facial hair, unique hair styles with tentacles. That's it. And of course, a lore rationale was constructed to justify these differences, just as one was constructed to justify the Nightborne being different.

Both groups therefore have some level of difference to their parents on a physical level, as all allied races do. But those changes are explained with lore and they explain why these groups are pretty much new races.

[MyWholeLifeIsThunder]

Yet the issue then cycles back to one of lore and intent. The incremental changes that separate Nightborne from Night Elves are their different ears, skin tone, hair colour and posture, all of which are by-products of their ten thousand years of isolation under the dome and the transformative power of the nightwell. Critically, the vast majority of these changes are biological. Every allied race is differentiated from their parent by something on a biological level, which explains why the Dark Iron Dwarves with their ashen skin tones and flaming eyes are an Allied race, whereas all Wildhammer Dwarves are getting is an expression through ordinary Dwarven tattoo options.

Nah mate, because in aesthetic terms beyond in game representation of their models, Nightborne and Night Elves are no more different than Dark skinned humans and light skinned humans. They are a magically affected ethnicity at most. Their one "critical" biological change was reversed, what *now* makes them critically different beyond *ear shape.*?

Your whole argument that a lore based, major biological difference is "needed" for AR is just not accurate. Maghar Orcs are biologically, just orcs not exposed to fel, HMT are a tribe of Tauren blessed with antlers. These are almost negligible "biological differences". Mechagnomes have no biological differences because they are mechanically augmented.

This is you still trying to argue there's a "lore reason" behind allied races being such, when it's just a gameplay mechanic based on aesthetics.

The thing is that the process you describe was ultimately applied to Blood/High Elves and the result was Void Elves. In truth, the Void Elves are very, very close to Blood/High Elves. What are the realistic model differences? A unique skin tone range, unique facial hair, unique hair styles with tentacles. That's it. And of course, a lore rationale was constructed to justify these differences, just as one was constructed to justify the Nightborne being different.

Which is irrelevant, as always, to the request for High Elves, because Void Elves simply do not have the specific background people want from HE's -which they could have and we wouldn't be having this whole conversation- Thing that you have been told multiple times yet you keep not understanding.

Both groups therefore have some level of difference to their parents on a physical level, as all allied races do. But those changes are explained with lore and they explain why these groups are pretty much new races.

Which is just not true because the level of "biological differentiation" for AR is not consistent at all, the only thing consistent is that aesthetically they had to look a lot more different from their "parent race" if they crossed faction (VE and NB)

The whole "every AR has a biological reason to be so" argument is just full of holes because it's wildly inconsistent. Some are clearly just segregated by lore like Maghar and HMT, some are barely magically afflicted ethnicities like Dark Iron, LFD, VE and NB, others are actual new races like Vulpera, Mechagnomes are literally just mechanically enhanced gnomes, and Zandalari is just a naturally occurring ethnicity of Troll. There's just not a consistent litmus test all AR pass; at best is a (2 out of 3 scenario)

[Molvonos]

This question is no longer to be asked since the interview of Zoltan and Cinderys with Ion.
Blizzard has made its choice and they are against blue eyes for the blood elves, "it does not make sense because they have evolved" ...
So inevitably, the blue eyes are reserved for the NPCs HE, a non-playable race of the alliance which is the subject of the request.

Proof that High Elves are unevolved neanderthals.

[ddi2]

Proof that High Elves are unevolved neanderthals.

Those would be trolls.

[Molvonos]

Those would be trolls.

High elves are trolls, you heard it here first!

Which are waiting for people on the Horde side of things.



But seriously, i'm amazed this thread's still going on strong.

[Strippling]

Well, it looks like the devs have given up this idea of no new customization options for Allied Races until later on. Apparently, even the first pass will be getting them. Another anti argument bites the dust!

You jumped the gun a bit there. You guys keep throwing the "anti's are trolls argument", yet no one had said anything in this thread recently and here you are throwing an unnecessary and snarky comment... which ironically bit you in the bum as this is simply naming of already existing customizations (I presume to fit within the new customization screen).

And forgive me if I'm wrong, but I haven't seen any anti in here say allied races will not get customization options. All I've seen is comments on how they're not coming first up, but would likely come about at a future stage (when exactly that is is hard to say as all we have from Blizzard is "they won't be at launch", which means either later in the expansion or in an upcoming expansion).

[FlubberPuddy]

Proof that High Elves are unevolved neanderthals.

Yup and I still want em just like there’s people still wanting Ogres who are more often depicted as dumbos.

[Strippling]

I do like that they are making blood elves different from high elves in both culture and physical appearance. Now what they need to do is make blood elves into zealots.

What about blood elf farstriders? They're more reclusive and prefer living in the woods rather than being city dwellers. Farstriders are a massive part of blood elf culture, would it be fair to push aside this aspect of blood elf culture? Also, show me sources that show Lorthermar being a "zealot". He leads the blood elves so I find it hard to believe that he would lead them into being "zealots".

Well they're literally powered by The Light these days. Should happen sooner or later.

The sunwell is a font of both holy and arcane energy. They're powered by both magics. Blood elf racials are all arcane focused too, not light focused. Arcane is still very much a part of their culture.

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Save warpaint for High Elves (or at least don't give em the iconic High Elf blue ones)

Warpaint would be fitting for farstriders, who are a blood elf organization and the same organization that the few alliance aligned high elf rangers are modeled after. The "high elf ranger archtype" is what a farstrider is, and the alliance aligned high elf rangers are a copy of this organization. So why should the main group of high elven rangers (ie farstriders who are blood elves) be denied warpaints? Warpaints would be fitting. And why should blue be denied? Wildhammer tattoo options for dwarves come in blue and RED, and other colors too.

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High elves are trolls, you heard it here first!

Which are waiting for people on the Horde side of things.



But seriously, i'm amazed this thread's still going on strong.

Interesting thought, if a group of elves were ever to avoid feeding on magic for a period of time do you think they would eventually revert back to being trolls? All elves are sustained by some type of magic, and the magic they feed off over time shapes them physically. So, if a group of elves were to stay off magic it only seems logical that they would at some point begin to revert back to what they originally were.

[Molvonos]

Interesting thought, if a group of elves were ever to avoid feeding on magic for a period of time do you think they would eventually revert back to being trolls? All elves are sustained by some type of magic, and the magic they feed off over time shapes them physically. So, if a group of elves were to stay off magic it only seems logical that they would at some point begin to revert back to what they originally were.

If I remember correctly, the high/blood elf change was a result of being away from the Well of Eternity or some such, so I don't think so. So yea, they devolved into High/Blood Elves but got their fix with the sunwell created by Illidan before devolving into Wretched.

[FlubberPuddy]

Warpaint would be fitting for farstriders, who are a blood elf organization and the same organization that the few alliance aligned high elf rangers are modeled after. The "high elf ranger archtype" is what a farstrider is, and the alliance aligned high elf rangers are a copy of this organization. So why should the main group of high elven rangers (ie farstriders who are blood elves) be denied warpaints? Warpaints would be fitting. And why should blue be denied? Wildhammer tattoo options for dwarves come in blue and RED, and other colors too.

Just going off what we've seen so far. Eye color has meaning for Thalassians over other races, which is why Humans/Dwarves/Gnomes/Forsaken/Orcs/Tauren/Goblins etc are all getting blue eyes but not blood elves.

It's got meaning.

They very well may get blue warpaint, but so far for their options the bits of datamining has shown the current color schemes of red/green/gold/black. Only one outstanding datamining, the blue eyes was confirmed not happening, thus for now blue coloring seems an outlier for Blood Elves.

[Broflake]

Yet Vulpera reuse goblin assets; that's what I see as the throughline of AR; there's something being reused here, whether it is fantasy (Zandalari, Kulturans) or assets (Vulpera) or both (the rest). Assets in this meaning animations and geometry. If Vulpera had an unique model they would be a new race, but it's clear they reuse the female gob model almost wholesale, so I think we all agree why they are an AR and not a Core Race.

The model is generally not related towards how whether something is or is not a new race. If I remember right, the skinny human model utilized the forsaken one. At one point the zandalari NPC"s used the night elf model.
It is less about animations and models so much as what is presented immediately.
Remember, the only difference between a horse and a unicorn is that one has a horn.

But the problem is that the models are just simply not different enough at all , and thus is the posture what actually makes the difference. You can point out to game design all you want, what I am telling you is that IMO the model difference between NB and NE females is just negligible and is the posture -which is also part of what you are referring to game design. what ACTUALLY makes the difference.

I think the point here is mostly that I think that the most noticeable difference is posture, and you say it's proportion. All I can say is that it is subjective to a point, but that I legit think you are wrong with how little the difference in proportion between NB and NE female models actually is. I can not point to something I consider apparent if you don't see it any more than I have done.

I understand why you believe I am incorrect, but there is scientific basis that supports my claim along with decades of game design. Animations are the cherry to the ice cream sundae, they aren't a part of the base.
If I gave humans and night elves the exact same animations and covered them with armor, you'd still know one is different from the other.
Certainly the females may not look much different, but the differences they do possess are enough to differentiate them. After all, when you do encounter a nightborne as an alliance player, they're attacking you using the same animations that night elves uses as warriors.
At that point, when the animation differences are completely gone, you still know the difference due to the minute details.

Honestly that was just about "hobbits" being a bit ridiculous to introduce now. I do agree about Half Elves tho, you know that.

I was cracking a joke good sir.
No one wants short men with hairy feet as a race!

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Just going off what we've seen so far. Eye color has meaning for Thalassians over other races, which is why Humans/Dwarves/Gnomes/Forsaken/Orcs/Tauren/Goblins etc are all getting blue eyes but not blood elves.

It's got meaning.

They very well may get blue warpaint, but so far for their options the bits of datamining has shown the current color schemes of red/green/gold/black. Only one outstanding datamining, the blue eyes was confirmed not happening, thus for now blue coloring seems an outlier for Blood Elves.

The only thing Ion commented on was the blue eyes, not warpaint.
What is to stop me from wearing blue armor with a silver hand shirt?
Nadda

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If I remember correctly, the high/blood elf change was a result of being away from the Well of Eternity or some such, so I don't think so. So yea, they devolved into High/Blood Elves but got their fix with the sunwell created by Illidan before devolving into Wretched.

Wretched is from too much mana not too little. Minor correction

[FlubberPuddy]

The only thing Ion commented on was the blue eyes, not warpaint.
What is to stop me from wearing blue armor with a silver hand shirt?
Nadda

Can a Blood Elf player equip the Silver Covenant tabard?