1. #16781
    Legendary! Obelisk Kai's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by ddi2 View Post
    That's not what I had in mind calling you that. I am not going to claim that you secretly think that pro high elf arguments are strong or anything like that but I will claim that you secretly might disagree with some of your own arguments but still make them because they promote your point. I've debated with you before. I've read your debates with others. I've seen you arguing against something in one argument and then agreeing with it in another, I've seen your position about certain things change depending on the point you are trying to make. While people here argue about points they believe in with arguments they believe in, you choose the arguments that would best support your position without actually necessarily having conviction in them yourself as if you are on a debate contest. And I have no desire to participate in one without judges and prizes to win.
    Well you are free to bring up examples but I believe if you were able to cite any examples I'd be able to explain away any apparent inconsistencies. However as this appears to be a conversational dead end for the both of us it might be for the best to leave it at that.

  2. #16782
    Brewmaster elbleuet's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by bobwuzhere1224 View Post
    Everyone knows Elf girls love Human Potential.
    Ok so at this point this is just coming from your imagination.

    Half-elves are not a race, and we don't even know if they can even reproduce.
    "If you want to play alongside High and Void elves, the Alliance is waiting for you"

  3. #16783
    Legendary! Obelisk Kai's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by elbleuet View Post
    Your source ?
    Elisande's comment regarding the High Elves mingling their blood. No, she wasn't lying. She was attempting to mock them with the truth.

    Also, Ion's comment that the few remaining exiles are being assimilated into other cultures. In game and out of game evidence.

    And the fact that those three half elves are literally the only children the exiles have been confirmed to have (which means we are three confirmed half elf kids to zero high elf exile kids).

    And the fact that a small group of exiles alone in the world and more open to relationships with humans than the rest of their race, humans who would greatly outnumber any potential mate from among the exiles, would have a greater chance of encountering a mate from the human population than another exile. Which is of course supported by the Ion and Elisande.

    Remember many of the exiles left decades ago, not because of the whole draining arcane argument but because Quel'thalas left the Alliance and they decided to stay around Humans(as described in the Warcraft 3 manual) whether in neutral Dalaran, destroyed Lordaeron or bombed Theramore.

    Are there a ton of half elves? Nope, still likely a very rare group despite all that. But all available evidence does point to the exiles preferring couplings with humans towards coupling with their own kind, which makes sense due to the circumstances.

  4. #16784
    Brewmaster elbleuet's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Obelisk Kai View Post
    Elisande's comment regarding the High Elves mingling their blood. No, she wasn't lying. She was attempting to mock them with the truth.
    So Blood elves' allies are misfists and monsters ?

    And when the Scarlets crusade tells us Anduin is Sylvanas' lover, that's the truth ? Thanks Obelisk Kai for bringing this up

    But all available evidence does point to the exiles preferring couplings with humans towards coupling with their own kind, which makes sense due to the circumstances.
    One single high elf family is doing that. The rest comes from your imagination.
    "If you want to play alongside High and Void elves, the Alliance is waiting for you"

  5. #16785
    Legendary! Obelisk Kai's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by elbleuet View Post
    So Blood elves' allies are misfists and monsters ?

    And when the Scarlets crusade tells us Anduin is Sylvanas' lover, that's the truth ? Thanks Obelisk Kai for bringing this up
    As stated in the post, she was mocking them with truth. However, she was twisting it.

    She mocks the Horde as misfits and monsters. Those are labels lobbed at the Horde by the Alliance on a regular basis. The entire conception of the Horde after all is the supposedly monstrous, outcast races of Azeroth banding together for mutual support and survival. The Horde aren't misfits and monsters, but Elisande would happily mock the Blood Elves for their allegiance to the Horde.

    Elisande mocks the Night Elves for 'disgracing a glorious past'. Which is true if you regard the old Night Elf empire as that glorious past. Given the Nightbore are a time capsule of that empire, culture and attitude, she clearly looks dimly at the choice the Night Elves made in turning their backs so completely on their highborne past. She mocks them for 'becoming as savage as trolls' and 'hiding in the woods', both of which are twisted representations of the truth.

    So when she addresses the exiles, the important points are what she said, rather than the fact she acknowledged them at all. As both previous groups were mocked using the truth from Elisande's point of view, the exiles were also mocked with the truth from Elisande's point of view. If she were lying, her barbs would have no impact whatsoever. Instead, they are a declaration of contempt from her.



    Quote Originally Posted by elbleuet View Post
    One single high elf family is doing that. The rest comes from your imagination.
    Again, Elisande's comment is proof that this is happening. And Ion's comment backs up Elisande's comment. It doesn't even take much speculation to figure out why it is happening. Not sure why you are so hostile to this logical outcome, after all, I don't believe half elves will be playable. The debate earlier was over whether they were objectionable or not, and they aren't, but that's an entirely different kettle of fish to whether they will happen, which they probably won't.

    Neither debate has any impact on the fact the exiles are probably siring more half elves than pure blood exile babies, probably a lot more albeit still remaining pretty rare.

  6. #16786
    Quote Originally Posted by ddi2 View Post
    There is literally no need to artificially create Half-Elves when High Elves that would do the exact same function and are actually desired by many people already exist.
    There is a need when the alternative is a duplicate Allied Race for a Faction that is opposite of what the Parent Race is. Blizzard isn't going to give the Alliance another Blood Elven themed Allied Race nor are they going to add High Elf customizations to Void Elves.

    Half Elves however are a new and barely scratched the surface concept. They finally get a new and proper model and would continue the High Elf story on the Alliance that so many clamor for without crossing the lines Antis have issues with. A literal win/win.

    Quote Originally Posted by elbleuet View Post
    Ok so at this point this is just coming from your imagination.

    Half-elves are not a race, and we don't even know if they can even reproduce.
    It's not my imagination if it's obvious or are you suggesting in all the time that the exiles have been with the Alliance that not once have the two species got it on? Because if so, then that's defo in your imagination.

    And it doesn't matter if they can reproduce or not. You'd be playing as the offspring of a Human and High Elf. Your children are irrelevant to your character.

  7. #16787
    Quote Originally Posted by bobwuzhere1224 View Post
    There is a need when the alternative is a duplicate Allied Race for a Faction that is opposite of what the Parent Race is. Blizzard isn't going to give the Alliance another Blood Elven themed Allied Race nor are they going to add High Elf customizations to Void Elves.

    Half Elves however are a new and barely scratched the surface concept. They finally get a new and proper model and would continue the High Elf story on the Alliance that so many clamor for without crossing the lines Antis have issues with. A literal win/win.
    You can give a different model to High Elves if it bothers you so much, like how Kul'Tirans were given a different human model or how Nozdormu has a different High Elf model. Creating something that no one asks for again to placate people who want High Elves is simply stupid.

  8. #16788
    Quote Originally Posted by ddi2 View Post
    You can give a different model to High Elves if it bothers you so much, like how Kul'Tirans were given a different human model or how Nozdormu has a different High Elf model. Creating something that no one asks for again to placate people who want High Elves is simply stupid.
    Sorry but it doesn't make sense to invent a new model for High Elves when they haven't had a reason to need a new model.

    Kul Tirans are not applicable because Humans are a Parent Race on the Alliance.

    Nozdormu isn't applicable either because he's a Unique Dragon NPC. And Unique Dragon NPCs much like Alleria get unique NPC models.

    Half Elves however make sense to give a new model to.

  9. #16789
    The Lightbringer Ardenaso's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by bobwuzhere1224 View Post
    Everyone knows Elf girls love Human Potential.
    --- snip ---
    Last edited by Aucald; 2020-05-13 at 12:22 PM. Reason: Removed Meme Image
    The Alliance gets the Horde's most popular race. The Horde should get the Alliance's most popular race in return. Alteraci Humans for the Horde!

    I make Warcraft 3 Reforged HD custom models and I'm also an HD model reviewer.

  10. #16790
    Brewmaster elbleuet's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Obelisk Kai View Post
    As stated in the post, she was mocking them with truth. However, she was twisting it.

    She mocks the Horde as misfits and monsters. Those are labels lobbed at the Horde by the Alliance on a regular basis. The entire conception of the Horde after all is the supposedly monstrous, outcast races of Azeroth banding together for mutual support and survival. The Horde aren't misfits and monsters, but Elisande would happily mock the Blood Elves for their allegiance to the Horde.

    Elisande mocks the Night Elves for 'disgracing a glorious past'. Which is true if you regard the old Night Elf empire as that glorious past. Given the Nightbore are a time capsule of that empire, culture and attitude, she clearly looks dimly at the choice the Night Elves made in turning their backs so completely on their highborne past. She mocks them for 'becoming as savage as trolls' and 'hiding in the woods', both of which are twisted representations of the truth.

    So when she addresses the exiles, the important points are what she said, rather than the fact she acknowledged them at all. As both previous groups were mocked using the truth from Elisande's point of view, the exiles were also mocked with the truth from Elisande's point of view. If she were lying, her barbs would have no impact whatsoever. Instead, they are a declaration of contempt from her.
    You're not answering to my comment about the Scarlet crusade. Why ? Because it actually makes your argument "but if she says that then that must be true" a bit ridiculeous ?

    Is Anduin Sylvanas' lover because the Scarlet Crusade states it ?


    Again, Elisande's comment is proof that this is happening.
    A bit like blue-eyed blood elves happening, isn't it ?


    Not sure why you are so hostile to this logical outcome, after all, I don't believe half elves will be playable.
    I'm not hostile. This isn't just happening.
    "If you want to play alongside High and Void elves, the Alliance is waiting for you"

  11. #16791
    Quote Originally Posted by Ardenaso View Post
    --- snip ---
    Good meme. Helps reinforce my point.
    Last edited by Aucald; 2020-05-13 at 12:22 PM.

  12. #16792
    That meme is hilarious, I am going to use it whenever people shit on the Windrunners. Thanks a lot Ardenaso!

  13. #16793
    Quote Originally Posted by elbleuet View Post
    You're not answering to my comment about the Scarlet crusade. Why ? Because it actually makes your argument "but if she says that then that must be true" a bit ridiculeous ?

    Is Anduin Sylvanas' lover because the Scarlet Crusade states it ?




    A bit like blue-eyed blood elves happening, isn't it ?




    I'm not hostile. This isn't just happening.
    Pretty sure an old as hell Elf Mage would be more knowledgeable/credible on the Subject of Elves than a group of propaganda spreading crazed lunatics looking for an excuse to kill anything that associates with the Undead.

  14. #16794
    Brewmaster elbleuet's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by bobwuzhere1224 View Post
    It's not my imagination if it's obvious or are you suggesting in all the time that the exiles have been with the Alliance that not once have the two species got it on? Because if so, then that's defo in your imagination.
    So still no source except "This is so obvious".

    I'm not saying half-elves aren't a thing. They do exist. But I guess this is another way for Obelisk Kai and co to say otherwise that high elves are Horde/dead/neutral/irrelevant.

    And it doesn't matter if they can reproduce or not. You'd be playing as the offspring of a Human and High Elf. Your children are irrelevant to your character.
    Actually it does. If you can't reproduce because your a hybrid then you're not a member of race. You're just a hybrid.
    "If you want to play alongside High and Void elves, the Alliance is waiting for you"

  15. #16795
    Quote Originally Posted by bobwuzhere1224 View Post
    Sorry but it doesn't make sense to invent a new model for High Elves when they haven't had a reason to need a new model.
    If Blizzard decides to make them playable then you get your reason to invent a new model for High Elves. Just like Blizzard decided to invent new models for Kul'Tirans when they made a decision to make them playable.

    Quote Originally Posted by bobwuzhere1224 View Post
    Kul Tirans are not applicable because Humans are a Parent Race on the Alliance.
    It's fine to create a new model for Kult'Tirans as their parent race is on the Alliance and it wouldn't be fine to invent a new model for High Elves because their parent race is on the Horde ... because?

    Quote Originally Posted by bobwuzhere1224 View Post
    Nozdormu isn't applicable either because he's a Unique Dragon NPC. And Unique Dragon NPCs much like Alleria get unique NPC models.
    Never said that High Elves should be given the actual Nozdormu model. My point was that a High Elf can be represented in game not just by a Blood Elf model.

    Quote Originally Posted by bobwuzhere1224 View Post
    Half Elves however make sense to give a new model to.
    Half Elves make no sense to create in the first place.

    Honestly, your arguments why High Elves can't be given a different model are stretched as hell. As if you just don't want High Elves to be playable just because.

  16. #16796
    Quote Originally Posted by elbleuet View Post
    So still no source except "This is so obvious".

    I'm not saying half-elves aren't a thing. They do exist. But I guess this is another way for Obelisk Kai and co to say otherwise that high elves are Horde/dead/neutral/irrelevant.



    Actually it does. If you can't reproduce because your a hybrid then you're not a member of race. You're just a hybrid.
    Again there doesn't need to be a source when it's obvious. It has nothing to do with your insinuation about horde/dead/neutral. It's the logical outcome based on the fact that Half Elves exists and are shown to be Half High Elf and Half Human. So this makes it obvious that there are way more than what has been depicted. Blizzard just hasn't had an excuse to make a brand new model.

    And again your children don't matter to the character your playing, since you are playing the offspring of a Human and a High Elf. Unless you think Blizzard is suddenly going to add a have children mechanic to players?

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by ddi2 View Post
    If Blizzard decides to make them playable then you get your reason to invent a new model for High Elves. Just like Blizzard decided to invent new models for Kul'Tirans when they made a decision to make them playable.



    It's fine to create a new model for Kult'Tirans as their parent race is on the Alliance and it wouldn't be fine to invent a new model for High Elves because their parent race is on the Horde ... because?



    Never said that High Elves should be given the actual Nozdormu model. My point was that a High Elf can be represented in game not just by a Blood Elf model.


    Half Elves make no sense to create in the first place.

    Honestly, your arguments why High Elves can't be given a different model are stretched as hell. As if you just don't want High Elves to be playable just because.
    But why would they get a new model when there hasn't been any significant changes to their body to warrant such changes? Any Model updates they receive would have to be applied to Blood Elves and Void Elves since they all share the same body style.

    Humans are the Parent Race for Kul Tirans and both are on the Alliance so that makes it alright. Blood Elves are the Parent Race for Void Elves and if High Elves were added them too however the Parent Race is on the Horde and not the Alliance. So again it's not applicable because different factions.

    The point is that High Elves have no current reason/significant change to justify having a new model.

    Half Elves make perfect sense to have a new model because they already exist and would continue the High Elf Story on the Alliance.

  17. #16797
    Quote Originally Posted by bobwuzhere1224 View Post
    Humans are the Parent Race for Kul Tirans and both are on the Alliance so that makes it alright. Blood Elves are the Parent Race for Void Elves and if High Elves were added them too however the Parent Race is on the Horde and not the Alliance. So again it's not applicable because different factions.
    Why whether the parent race's faction is the same or different matters for a model? You realise you are not making an argument here?

    Quote Originally Posted by bobwuzhere1224 View Post
    Half Elves make perfect sense to have a new model because they already exist and would continue the High Elf Story on the Alliance.
    There are High Elves on the Alliance that exist and can continue the High Elf story.

  18. #16798
    Brewmaster elbleuet's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by bobwuzhere1224 View Post
    Again there doesn't need to be a source when it's obvious. It has nothing to do with your insinuation about horde/dead/neutral. It's the logical outcome based on the fact that Half Elves exists and are shown to be Half High Elf and Half Human. So this makes it obvious that there are way more than what has been depicted. Blizzard just hasn't had an excuse to make a brand new model.
    So I guess half-blood elves are coming to Horde side aswell ? After all, Shaw and Valeera maybe have a love interest together, and Blood elves are coming back in Dalaran.

    And blood elves are an Alliance race since we see Alliance blood elves in Telogrus Rift ? So Blood elves are slowly coming back to the Alliance.

    Totally logical and obvious.

    See ?
    "If you want to play alongside High and Void elves, the Alliance is waiting for you"

  19. #16799
    Quote Originally Posted by ddi2 View Post
    Why whether the parent race's faction is the same or different matters for a model? You realise you are not making an argument here?



    There are High Elves on the Alliance that exist and can continue the High Elf story.
    Because Blood Elves and High Elves are the same Model. It makes zero sense for one side to get a brand new model and not the other. High Elves have not had a significant change to justify it. Any new model High Elves get would have to apply to Blood Elves and Void Elves. It doesn't make sense otherwise.

    Why does this matter for factions? Because since Humans are the parent Race on the Alliance Kul Tirans are free to have a new model. If Blood Elves had originated on the Alliance, then High Elves could have a new model but since they originated on the Horde and nothing has been depicted to show a significant change/reason for High Elves to have a new model then it makes zero sense for them to get one.

    Half Elves however make all the sense in the world to get a new model because they are Half Human and Half High Elf and can continue the story of High Elves without stepping on the toes of Models.

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by elbleuet View Post
    So I guess half-blood elves are coming to Horde side aswell ? After all, Shaw and Valeera maybe have a love interest together, and Blood elves are coming back in Dalaran.

    And blood elves are an Alliance race since we see Alliance blood elves in Telogrus Rift ? So Blood elves are slowly coming back to the Alliance.

    Totally logical and obvious.

    See ?
    Makes sense to me.

  20. #16800
    Quote Originally Posted by elbleuet View Post
    There are 3 half elves currently recorded and all are from the same family.

    Just stop with that half elf nonsense.
    Yes, and in these parents, there is a human and a high-elf Wundrunner.

    It is more interesting to have the High Elf first as a playable race and / or customization option.

    The half-elf could come later, as a customization option for humans and high-elves and / or as a playable "race", in the meantime, they are not relevant in the story, I do not see why they would be available before the high elves which is a much more popular request.

    Ion did say that there would always be additions regarding the customization of the character and that they are not closing to the addition of new allied races.

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by Broflake View Post
    Yes, yes they are, that is literally what a hybrid is, which is a mix of two different species creating a new one.
    Such as Ligers, and Tigons.

    No...it isn't, because maghar and DID are not hybrids or anything., They belong to the same dwarf/troll race they are literally the same as a different ethnicity. So that's not a new race.
    Hybrids are a new race because they have characteristics not found in either of their parents, are generally sterile, and have significant physiological differences that you cannot mistake the two.
    So, no, we shouldn't try to slap a half elf model into the high elf category because not only is it demanding two races under one category which has never occurred, but it is also a lazy way of implementing it and deprives half elves from ever having their own story.


    I would be fine with that, heck they can be half elf half dragon.
    <.<

    I'd play that...


    No.
    High elves are not the same race as half elves.
    The moment you put them under the high elf race option they become a high elf, and then it begs to question why blood elves don't have such a variance despite being part of the same thing.
    It creates far too many design issues, lore issues, and more.

    Half elves should be their own thing.
    What you blame here is unfortunately happening.
    The wildhammer nevertheless deserved to be an allied breed with all the lore they have and yet they ended up as a customization option.
    This is why the half-elves are not immune to end up with the same treatment, the high-elves also.

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