1. #16821
    Quote Originally Posted by Geisl View Post
    Also wanted to add in reference to that artwork Frenchvince linked, a Blood Elf cannot wear that gear which looks so fitting on the High Elf there
    They wouldn't want to. They are more of Red/Green/Gold colored ranger look.

  2. #16822
    Quote Originally Posted by Frenchvince View Post
    The half-elves could be rather a customization option for the high-elves if they were available, it is part of their history, this addition would be logical.
    And it will make one more difference, compared to the blood elves.
    I was suggesting half-elves as a playable race option on its own, not as customization for playable alliance high elves. We've discussed at length and also been given an explanation from Blizzard as to why alliance high elves as a playable race is not an option (it'd blur faction lines). So, in order to offer Alliance players an option to play the "elves always loyal to the Alliance" while at the same time not detracting from the uniqueness of blood elves (ie the main high elf race in WoW), the option of half-elf seems to fit the bill so to speak.

    High elves would only impede on faction distinction and racial identity. Hence, taking them down the path of half elves would be the best way to go about it. And as MyWholeLifeIsThunder pointed out, Horde could get a half cast race equivalent (Moknathol).

    Alliance aligned high elves aesthetically and thematically are exactly the same as blood elves... as they are the exact same race. It'd only blur faction lines to make them playable and it'd detract massively from the current playable high elf race. This isn't a case of "but HM Tauren, LF Draenei, etc.." as those ARs are all within the same faction, and as such don't cross factions lines (or in other words blur faction lines). The panda excuse isn't valid either, as they were introduced as neutral from the very get go. Playable alliance aligned high elves would make the high elf race now be de-facto neutral, which isn't fair to expect the Horde to have one of their core races become neutral.

    So, half elves are a cool possibility to explore, are lore friendly, and would be a great compromise for both sides involved. Their model though should be based off the human model, not the thalassian model. Perhaps the skinny human model could be altered a bit with smaller pointy ears added and glowy eye options. The wrathion model shouldn't be adopted as he's essentially a blood elf with short ears and new hair. We're trying to get away from aesthetical similarities in order to respect the uniqueness of blood elves. Tweaking the skinny human model would be the best option imo.
    Last edited by Strippling; 2020-05-12 at 09:29 PM.
    Blood elves are our high elves - Chris Metzen

  3. #16823
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    Quote Originally Posted by Obelisk Kai View Post
    Ddi2 is also wrong. Attempting to pretend opposition to your request is motivated by bitterness or spite or sheer obtuseness seems to be a way of not fully engaging with why the request wasn't fulfilled whereas the equally long standing request for Mag'har Orcs was and without issue.
    It's clear and has been clear, one need only point to your post where you try to pin keyboardturner making the objective observation that blue eyes to blood elves aren't happening (then/now) as if they had an agenda to ensure High Elves will happen.

    There's more too, where you argue with Aucald on how "Choices Matter" using a point that was said about Covenant Abilities - a feature you yourself freaked out over Blizzard wanting to keep permanent and consider it terrible/trash/same as azerite fiasco etc whatever. I pointed that out and you simply ignored it.

    I have no desire to engage with someone so flip floppy in their arguments who prioritizes status quo because you're not getting anywhere.

    If Blizzard went and tomorrow unveiled that High Elves are coming with the options that have brainstormed by those here in this thread and others elsewhere you'd then state 'I was wrong, Blizzard is right' and proceed to defend the status quo position that High Elves are meant for Alliance etc etc.

    Your position is essentially whatever Blizzard's current stance is. But you're not Blizzard, and thus it's more productive for others to simply focus their efforts/arguments towards Blizzard.

    Us going round and round here does absolutely nothing.

  4. #16824
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    Quote Originally Posted by elbleuet View Post
    And Elisande shielded herself under a dome during 10 thousands years. She's not reliable at all except for you because all is good to make the High elves look neutral/dieing/Horde
    The shield had been down for a considerable amount of time at that point, prior to the siege beginning. Elisande also had access to the Legion who were doubtless giving her information. And it's a city full of powerful Mages.

    Besides, she was on the money with the Night Elves and the Blood Elves, at least in regards to her statements being true from her perspective. Why suddenly be wrong about the exiles, particularly when her comments are backed up by developer word of god.



    Quote Originally Posted by elbleuet View Post
    We also have examples of Alliance blood elves in Telogrus Rift. Also Valeera and Shaw seem to hold a mutual love interest. Alliance half-blood elves and Alliance blood elves are definitely coming.

    This discussion is pure nonsense.
    Those Blood Elves are likely there for the same reason the high elves in Telogrus are, to enable role players to have the greatest breadth possible when it comes to discussing the origin of their Void Elf. Because those blood elves and high elf exiles who are so keen on studying the void are never seen outside Telogrus aiding the Alliance. Plenty of Void Elves have been seen so.

    And whether Valeera and Shaw have a mutual love interest is irrelevant, any kids Valeera have will not reach maturity for a very, very long time. The end result would not be a half blood elf, it would be a half elf. Blood Elves and high elves are the same race, so if they mate with a human and have children, that child will be a half elf.

    As for the discussion being pure nonsense, I am not arguing about the likelihood of Half Elves becoming playable. As I stated previously, I was arguing that Half Elves wouldn't be objectionable as the exiles are as a playable race because Half Elves wouldn't undermine the factions. But the wider, lore based point holds. That the exiles are having half elf rather than high elf exile kids.

  5. #16825
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    Quote Originally Posted by bobwuzhere1224 View Post
    They wouldn't want to. They are more of Red/Green/Gold colored ranger look.
    Good, please tell that to all those that wanted Blue Eyes on their Blood Elves. It's not for them, just like the High Elves of the Alliance don't look to join the Horde. All the lore points at the inverse, and we even see it in-game where Blood Elf Scholars/High Elf wayfarers have flocked to the Alliance.

    Blood Elves are very xenophobic, they hate humans, so High Elves wouldn't like being around them anyway, as Ardenaso pointed out.

  6. #16826
    Quote Originally Posted by MyWholeLifeIsThunder View Post
    Honestly? Best possible choice both lorewise and gameplay wise; if they are framed as the inheritors of the Silver Covenant -as per Elisande's words- they'd serve as the next logical step for HE's on the alliance; it would further justify a modified Blood Elf model, specially if we pair it with another hybrid race for the Horde; the Mok'nathal, who would use a modified Kul Tiran model as per Rexxar.
    I hadn't even thought of Mok'nathal as a half cast race equivalent for the Horde. Great idea though, thanks for your input
    Blood elves are our high elves - Chris Metzen

  7. #16827
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ardenaso View Post
    --- snip ---
    This is perfect dude. You get across how Blood Elves see the Alliance/Humans and how High Elves feel about their long-time allies!
    Last edited by Aucald; 2020-05-13 at 12:25 PM.

  8. #16828
    Quote Originally Posted by Geisl View Post
    Good, please tell that to all those that wanted Blue Eyes on their Blood Elves. It's not for them, just like the High Elves of the Alliance don't look to join the Horde. All the lore points at the inverse, and we even see it in-game where Blood Elf Scholars/High Elf wayfarers have flocked to the Alliance.

    Blood Elves are very xenophobic, they hate humans, so High Elves wouldn't like being around them anyway, as Ardenaso pointed out.
    Blue was a natural eye color for them. So it was reasonable to think they'd be getting the option. Nothing to do with their choice of color on armor.

  9. #16829
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    Quote Originally Posted by bobwuzhere1224 View Post
    Blue was a natural eye color for them. So it was reasonable to think they'd be getting the option. Nothing to do with their choice of color on armor.
    Anyone who knew of Blood Elf lore/story/society would know that request didn't make sense.

    But this is neither here nor there. The good thing is Blue Eyes isn't going to be available for Blood Elf players ever which means if High Elves ever became playable it wouldn't be "a blood elf with blue eyes" since Blood Elves have so many factors that differentiate them from the High Elves we see on Alliance, not simply being on opposite factions, not simply for the blue eyes.

    It also takes away the arguments that getting customizations for High Elves would take away from Blood Elves. AkA the blue farstrider tattoos and what not.

    Essentially what Alleria looks like. Blue is not a thematic/iconic color for Blood Elves. That's what Ion essentially establishes.

    Blue thematic/iconic for the Alliance though, where the High Elves (the ones that still call themselves so) reside!
    Last edited by FlubberPuddy; 2020-05-12 at 09:39 PM.

  10. #16830
    What Elisande says doesn't concern 100% of the high elves either, it's just part of the history / heritage of the high elves and humans.
    The high elves continue to breed among themselves. lol

  11. #16831
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    Quote Originally Posted by Geisl View Post
    It's clear and has been clear, one need only point to your post where you try to pin keyboardturner making the objective observation that blue eyes to blood elves aren't happening (then/now) as if they had an agenda to ensure High Elves will happen.

    There's more too, where you argue with Aucald on how "Choices Matter" using a point that was said about Covenant Abilities - a feature you yourself freaked out over Blizzard wanting to keep permanent and consider it terrible/trash/same as azerite fiasco etc whatever. I pointed that out and you simply ignored it.

    I have no desire to engage with someone so flip floppy in their arguments who prioritizes status quo because you're not getting anywhere.

    If Blizzard went and tomorrow unveiled that High Elves are coming with the options that have brainstormed by those here in this thread and others elsewhere you'd then state 'I was wrong, Blizzard is right' and proceed to defend the status quo position that High Elves are meant for Alliance etc etc.

    Your position is essentially whatever Blizzard's current stance is. But you're not Blizzard, and thus it's more productive for others to simply focus their efforts/arguments towards Blizzard.

    Us going round and round here does absolutely nothing.
    Keyboardturner asserted that the eyes were destined for Void Elves and thus Blood Elves would not be getting blue eyes. It turns out she was in fact wrong, the eyes were instead being reserved for NPCs but were destined for the model. This means she interpreted the data incorrectly and raised a legitimate question as to whether the pro high elf bias she expressed in a previous tweet caused her to misinterpret the data. She may have guessed the right result, but her methodology in reaching that result left a lot to be desired.

    In regards to 'choices matter', yes I am concerned about the gameplay implications of covenant locking abilities. However I have been willing to give Blizzard the benefit of the doubt since Ion's interview. Recent information suggests they will use a combination of soulbinds, conduits and legendaries to allow us to effectively customise our covenant abilities so that they are flexible. If this is true, this preserves the importance of choice whilst ensuring we are not crippled by being locked to a specific Covenant whose ability is superior to a Covenant whose aesthetic we prefer. I am going to give them the benefit of the doubt in the coming months of testing to see if the system can be salvaged.

    It is also a generalisation to claim I defend the status quo at all times. A few months ago you brought up my scathing critique of BFA's gameplay systems and storyline progression to argue I was being hypocritical in defending their position on this topic and yet calling them out on their obvious failures elsewhere. Yet now, in this response, you are arguing I change my mind depending on what Blizzard says. So on the one hand I am inconsistent in defending them in some areas whilst heavily criticising them in the others...and then on the other I always automatically back what they say?

    Wasn't your key objection here that I am 'flip floppy' in my arguments? Your critique of my responses seems marred by a similar flaw, given you have essentially put forward two incompatible objections to my arguments at two different times with the sole differentiating factor being which argument you feel better serves your purposes at a given moment.

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by Geisl View Post
    Anyone who knew of Blood Elf lore/story/society would know that request didn't make sense.

    But this is neither here nor there. The good thing is Blue Eyes isn't going to be available for Blood Elf players ever which means if High Elves ever became playable it wouldn't be "a blood elf with blue eyes" since Blood Elves have so many factors that differentiate them from the High Elves we see on Alliance, not simply being on opposite factions, not simply for the blue eyes.

    It also takes away the arguments that getting customizations for High Elves would take away from Blood Elves. AkA the blue farstrider tattoos and what not.

    Essentially what Alleria looks like. Blue is not a thematic/iconic color for Blood Elves. That's what Ion essentially establishes.

    Blue thematic/iconic for the Alliance though, where the High Elves (the ones that still call themselves so) reside!
    The request made perfect sense and was perfectly logical. Had it come to pass it would have been perfectly understandable. It was not to be however, and that is the end of that.

    However, if Blizzard wishes to preserve the blue eye colour for Void Elves so as to provide another point of differentiation, then that is their decision and one I can understand.

  12. #16832
    Quote Originally Posted by Frenchvince View Post
    What Elisande says doesn't concern 100% of the high elves either, it's just part of the history / heritage of the high elves and humans.
    The high elves continue to breed among themselves. lol
    Agreed, but let's put it this way; if we suddenly got Half Elves and it gets revealed over half of the SC is half elves, it really wouldn't be a surprise.

  13. #16833
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    Quote Originally Posted by Obelisk Kai View Post
    Keyboardturner asserted that the eyes were destined for Void Elves and thus Blood Elves would not be getting blue eyes. It turns out she was in fact wrong, the eyes were instead being reserved for NPCs but were destined for the model. This means she interpreted the data incorrectly and raised a legitimate question as to whether the pro high elf bias she expressed in a previous tweet caused her to misinterpret the data. She may have guessed the right result, but her methodology in reaching that result left a lot to be desired.
    She was right in saying that it wasn't for Blood Elves, that's the point. Doesn't matter if they didn't end up for Void Elves or not. That doesn't change you accusing them of making it an agenda over High Elves.
    Quote Originally Posted by Obelisk Kai View Post
    In regards to 'choices matter', yes I am concerned about the gameplay implications of covenant locking abilities. However I have been willing to give Blizzard the benefit of the doubt since Ion's interview. Recent information suggests they will use a combination of soulbinds, conduits and legendaries to allow us to effectively customise our covenant abilities so that they are flexible. If this is true, this preserves the importance of choice whilst ensuring we are not crippled by being locked to a specific Covenant whose ability is superior to a Covenant whose aesthetic we prefer. I am going to give them the benefit of the doubt in the coming months of testing to see if the system can be salvaged.
    Which is what people were already saying, since y'know Blizzcon - where Blizzard unveiled 90% of what's packaged with covenants (leggos being new info). But it took an official Blizzard person for you to change your stance about it a little. Not sure how you're proving yourself here.
    Quote Originally Posted by Obelisk Kai View Post
    It is also a generalisation to claim I defend the status quo at all times. A few months ago you brought up my scathing critique of BFA's gameplay systems and storyline progression to argue I was being hypocritical in defending their position on this topic and yet calling them out on their obvious failures elsewhere. Yet now, in this response, you are arguing I change my mind depending on what Blizzard says. So on the one hand I am inconsistent in defending them in some areas whilst heavily criticising them in the others...and then on the other I always automatically back what they say?

    Wasn't your key objection here that I am 'flip floppy' in my arguments? Your critique of my responses seems marred by a similar flaw, given you have essentially put forward two incompatible objections to my arguments at two different times with the sole differentiating factor being which argument you feel better serves your purposes at a given moment.
    Yes which is what's being shown here. Hell, you even told ddi2 to point out things and that 'you can explain any discrepancies'. That's literally the point he's making.

    And like him I will not engage further, just had to point it out one last time.

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by Obelisk Kai View Post
    The request made perfect sense and was perfectly logical. Had it come to pass it would have been perfectly understandable. It was not to be however, and that is the end of that.
    If it "made perfect sense and was perfectly logical" then how come Ion said "it doesn't make sense"?
    Quote Originally Posted by Obelisk Kai View Post
    However, if Blizzard wishes to preserve the blue eye colour for Void Elves so as to provide another point of differentiation, then that is their decision and one I can understand.
    Thinking here it's only for Void Elves is another silly thing, didn't you just point out earlier how Keyboardturner was wrong that it wasn't for Void Elves?

  14. #16834
    Quote Originally Posted by Geisl View Post
    If it "made perfect sense and was perfectly logical" then how come Ion said "it doesn't make sense"?

    Thinking here it's only for Void Elves is another silly thing, didn't you just point out earlier how Keyboardturner was wrong that it wasn't for Void Elves?
    It made perfect sense because it was their natural eye color and given Blizzard's comments in regards to how they want players to have their own backstory with extended customizations to explain away troll tribes and wildhammers, it felt reasonable and made perfect sense that Blood Elves would had been given access to Blue eyes among other colors since Blue was a natural color for them.

    Also to point out Obelisk Kai said "However, if Blizzard wishes to preserve the blue eye colour for Void Elves so as to provide another point of differentiation" the keyword is if. Meaning he is speculating for the future, not saying it will be for certain.

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by Geisl View Post
    Anyone who knew of Blood Elf lore/story/society would know that request didn't make sense.

    But this is neither here nor there. The good thing is Blue Eyes isn't going to be available for Blood Elf players ever which means if High Elves ever became playable it wouldn't be "a blood elf with blue eyes" since Blood Elves have so many factors that differentiate them from the High Elves we see on Alliance, not simply being on opposite factions, not simply for the blue eyes.

    It also takes away the arguments that getting customizations for High Elves would take away from Blood Elves. AkA the blue farstrider tattoos and what not.

    Essentially what Alleria looks like. Blue is not a thematic/iconic color for Blood Elves. That's what Ion essentially establishes.

    Blue thematic/iconic for the Alliance though, where the High Elves (the ones that still call themselves so) reside!
    Blood Elves still have Farstriders in their ranks and culture so it stands that they have a good chance at getting Farstrider tattoos. Doesn't have to be blue if that's what you're concerned with.

  15. #16835
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    Quote Originally Posted by Geisl View Post
    She was right in saying that it wasn't for Blood Elves, that's the point. Doesn't matter if they didn't end up for Void Elves or not. That doesn't change you accusing them of making it an agenda over High Elves.
    Actually, no, it isn't the point. The reason we discuss her is that you brought up the 'harassment' she was receiving. She was receiving 'harassment' because someone challenged her conclusion. The reason her conclusion was challenged is that individual felt Keyboardturner's methodology was flawed, and highlighted potential bias from an earlier tweet. It turns out the person challenging Keyboardturner was correct. The eyes weren't intended for Void Elves, they were intended for the Blood Elf model. However, they were being reserved for NPCs. That Keyboardturner was right about the end result does not diminish the fact that her methodology was wrong and it was right to question that methodology.


    Quote Originally Posted by Geisl View Post
    Which is what people were already saying, since y'know Blizzcon - where Blizzard unveiled 90% of what's packaged with covenants (leggos being new info). But it took an official Blizzard person for you to change your stance about it a little. Not sure how you're proving yourself here.
    Nobody was saying that. Some forum posters were speculating on it, but forum posters speculating on something doesn't automatically translate into a result. Until recently what we knew was that each class was getting a Covenant ability and that would be it. We now know that the abilities will be subject to some level of customisation using the systems they are implementing but that wasn't really confirmed until the Zoltan interview. Even the Sloot interview Ion merely said they were aware of the concerns and would try to salvage the system.

    As for a Blizzard position getting me to change my opinion, I find that a deeply weird point point to make, particularly as a criticism. How else would a change of opinion occur? Everything discussed prior to those statements would have been mere speculation that offered zero reassurance because nobody but Blizzard can make a definitive statement on anything.


    Quote Originally Posted by Geisl View Post
    Yes which is what's being shown here. Hell, you even told ddi2 to point out things and that 'you can explain any discrepancies'. That's literally the point he's making.

    And like him I will not engage further, just had to point it out one last time.
    This is actually a perfect example, you have decided to interpret that offer as me explaining away inconsistencies in what I have written. But when I said discrepancies, I meant 'perceived discrepancies'. I believe I have been extremely consistent in my arguments.

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by Geisl View Post
    If it "made perfect sense and was perfectly logical" then how come Ion said "it doesn't make sense"?
    On the lore as we knew it it made sense as a logical request. If the Sunwell were a light-arcane energy source, then just as the light side was providing golden eyes to some Blood Elves, the arcane side could restore blue eyes to others. There are also several canonically blue eyed Blood Elves whose existence underpinned the request. Had the request been granted, this interpretation of the lore would have been used to sustain why it was happening. So it was a logical request. However, they have chosen to go a different way.


    Quote Originally Posted by Geisl View Post
    Thinking here it's only for Void Elves is another silly thing, didn't you just point out earlier how Keyboardturner was wrong that it wasn't for Void Elves?
    Void Elves have blue sclera but white irises. They will likely get their own unique eyes as a different playable race. Void Elves after all are blue skinned as well, which as you have argued very recently is extremely thematic of the Alliance. But as Ion also confirmed, the blue eyes on the blood elf model are reserved for npcs, so nobody gets to use them on their playable elf.

  16. #16836
    Quote Originally Posted by bobwuzhere1224 View Post
    I literally explained the faction barrier thing to you several times. I gave you prime examples as to why. You not understanding it despite having it explained to you repeatedly is your problem, not the problem of my argument when it's clear as day.
    Well, let's take your previous post, I asked you why the faction barrier matters for creating a different model, you explain it as follows in that post:

    "It does not apply to SW Humans and KT Humans because they are on the same Faction."

    Here you are just stating that SW Humans and KT Humans being on the same faction is supposedly a self-evident explanation of why, without actually explaining why.

    "Blood Elves and High Elves are not. High Elves and Blood Elves are the same in Lore and Model wise. High Elves have not been shown to have any significant change that would justify a model change. Any Model changes they get have to be applied to Blood Elves since they are the same race."

    Here you are stating that High Elves and Blood Elves are on different faction, again, without addressing my question, and then proceed to explain why Blood Elves and High Elves can't have different models because of the lore, which is in no way relevant to what I asked you.

    "In regards to factions since you haven't gotten it by now. Humans started on the Alliance, there Allied Race: Kul Tirans get to have a model change because the Parent Race is on the same faction."

    This answers absolutely nothing regarding my question, you are again only stating that SW Humans and KT Humans are on the same faction, hence it's different. Again, why it's different is not explained.

    "Blood Elves are a parent Race to Void Elves. Void Elves were already cross faction to Alliance in exchange for Nightborne with both having a significant change to justify the cross faction. That's it, one and done. Blizzard isn't going to give the Alliance another playable Blood Elf model Allied Race because it's not fair to the Parent Race."

    Here you start talking about Void Elves and Nightborne, mention how they are on different factions from their parent races and that Blizzard are not going to do this once again because otherwise it wouldn't be fair. Again, my question is simply sidestepped.

    So here you go, I asked you why does it matter whether the parent race and it's equivalent allied race are in the same faction or not in whether you can give the separate models or not and all you've managed to answer here is, essentially, 'because'. You have not given an actual proper explanation and I can simply conclude that you don't have one.

    But really, Blizzard changes a model for High Elves and that's it, Alliance is not 'stealing' your model anymore. You have already said that you are fine with Alliance having a playable race that continues a High elf story. So now we have High Elves that do just that and don't take Horde's model. Win/win. A perfect solution.

  17. #16837
    Quote Originally Posted by ddi2 View Post
    Well, let's take your previous post, I asked you why the faction barrier matters for creating a different model, you explain it as follows in that post:

    "It does not apply to SW Humans and KT Humans because they are on the same Faction."

    Here you are just stating that SW Humans and KT Humans being on the same faction is supposedly a self-evident explanation of why, without actually explaining why.

    "Blood Elves and High Elves are not. High Elves and Blood Elves are the same in Lore and Model wise. High Elves have not been shown to have any significant change that would justify a model change. Any Model changes they get have to be applied to Blood Elves since they are the same race."

    Here you are stating that High Elves and Blood Elves are on different faction, again, without addressing my question, and then proceed to explain why Blood Elves and High Elves can't have different models because of the lore, which is in no way relevant to what I asked you.

    "In regards to factions since you haven't gotten it by now. Humans started on the Alliance, there Allied Race: Kul Tirans get to have a model change because the Parent Race is on the same faction."

    This answers absolutely nothing regarding my question, you are again only stating that SW Humans and KT Humans are on the same faction, hence it's different. Again, why it's different is not explained.

    "Blood Elves are a parent Race to Void Elves. Void Elves were already cross faction to Alliance in exchange for Nightborne with both having a significant change to justify the cross faction. That's it, one and done. Blizzard isn't going to give the Alliance another playable Blood Elf model Allied Race because it's not fair to the Parent Race."

    Here you start talking about Void Elves and Nightborne, mention how they are on different factions from their parent races and that Blizzard are not going to do this once again because otherwise it wouldn't be fair. Again, my question is simply sidestepped.

    So here you go, I asked you why does it matter whether the parent race and it's equivalent allied race are in the same faction or not in whether you can give the separate models or not and all you've managed to answer here is, essentially, 'because'. You have not given an actual proper explanation and I can simply conclude that you don't have one.

    But really, Blizzard changes a model for High Elves and that's it, Alliance is not 'stealing' your model anymore. You have already said that you are fine with Alliance having a playable race that continues a High elf story. So now we have High Elves that do just that and don't take Horde's model. Win/win. A perfect solution.
    I see you still don't understand. What a shame.

    It disrupts faction lines. Void Elves and Nightborne already did this once and Blizzard isn't going to do it again with the same Parent Race. The reason it's okay for Humans and Kul Tirans is because they are the same faction.

    High Elves are not going to get a new model without a significant change to justify it because they haven't had such an event occur in their short period as Exiles to signify a change and are pretty much the same as Blood Elves but with a different political opinion. So they can't be added this way.

    Void Elves are not going to get High Elven customizations because since Blue-Eyes for Blood Elves makes zero sense and erasing the void out of Void Elves makes zero sense.

    As it stands right now, High Elves have little to no chance of being made playable as they are and any model changes they get would have to be reflected in Blood Elves as they are the same race. Which in turn defeats the point.

    Idk how you didn't understand this already but there's the last and final explanation you're getting.

    Half Elves fixes all these issues and creates something new for the Alliance instead of being another copycat clone race. They get justified as having a new model to show how a Half High Elf and Half Human being would look. They would fight for the Alliance and continue the High Elf story that you clamor for. I mean after all, it's not about the looks but the story for you guys right? And since the biggest argument against High Elves is the look, creating an alternate Race that not only achieves the story and has acceptable looks can only be described as a Win/Win.

    A perfect solution.

  18. #16838
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    Quote Originally Posted by Obelisk Kai View Post
    Actually, no, it isn't the point.
    Yes it is, but you like to move goalposts so your statements appear to never be wrong. Look at your post here about it: https://www.mmo-champion.com/threads...1#post52285888

    Quote Originally Posted by Obelisk Kai View Post
    No other parent, core race seemingly has allied race customisations associated in any way with them, let alone the customisation that has happened to be the most controversial on the forums for the past few months. Isn't it funny that the one allied race customisation found in datamining happens to be blue eyes and associated with the Blood Elf files? What are the chances? Why wasn't it Dark Iron Dwarf customisation in Dwarves? Why wasn't it Lightforged Draenei customisation in Draenei? Why wasn't it Mag'har Orc customisation in Orcs? Why not Nightborne customisation under Night Elves?

    Nope, it happened on one single feature out of the hundreds they are developing and it just happens to be the most controversial one. What are the chances?

    Now maybe this is as you believe. That a single biased dataminer has found out that alone of the hundreds of options datamined, the blue eyes on Blood Elves are actually intended for their allied race variant, despite the fact no other allied race customisation has been found in any other of the core races and it happens to have been found on the one customisation option that is guaranteed to generate a complete shit show either way. This COULD be what has happened.

    But forgive me if I decide to wait for the actual options to be hooked up by Blizzard BEFORE I make a final call.
    Very accusational (two paragraphs worth dedicated to it) and then trying to save face by attaching a couple 'sure it could have happened, but excuse me for waiting after I go ahead and bravado on how this person is biased for High Elves.'

    It's plain to see dude.
    Quote Originally Posted by Obelisk Kai View Post
    Nobody was saying that. Some forum posters were speculating on it, but forum posters speculating on something doesn't automatically translate into a result. Until recently what we knew was that each class was getting a Covenant ability and that would be it. We now know that the abilities will be subject to some level of customisation using the systems they are implementing but that wasn't really confirmed until the Zoltan interview. Even the Sloot interview Ion merely said they were aware of the concerns and would try to salvage the system.
    Lots were saying that, many kept repeating 'there's also soulbinds too but people are just focusing on covenant abilities' over and over. But it requires Blizzard to generally repeat the same thing for it to be gotten across?
    Quote Originally Posted by Obelisk Kai View Post
    As for a Blizzard position getting me to change my opinion, I find that a deeply weird point point to make, particularly as a criticism. How else would a change of opinion occur? Everything discussed prior to those statements would have been mere speculation that offered zero reassurance because nobody but Blizzard can make a definitive statement on anything.
    No one's saying you can't change an opinion. Or that one shouldn't change their opinion when circumstances change, but that your arguments hinge on the status quo and that the status quo changes means no one has to spend their time getting into discussions then.

    When the status quo changes, so will what you say. Because we know that Blizzard's status quo changes as they've done it many times before. So there's really no productive discussion to be had there.
    Quote Originally Posted by Obelisk Kai View Post
    This is actually a perfect example, you have decided to interpret that offer as me explaining away inconsistencies in what I have written. But when I said discrepancies, I meant 'perceived discrepancies'. I believe I have been extremely consistent in my arguments.
    Your arguments have been extremely consistent on the status quo. That's what people point out, and I've pointed out already too. Done here with that.
    Quote Originally Posted by Obelisk Kai View Post
    On the lore as we knew it it made sense as a logical request. If the Sunwell were a light-arcane energy source, then just as the light side was providing golden eyes to some Blood Elves, the arcane side could restore blue eyes to others. There are also several canonically blue eyed Blood Elves whose existence underpinned the request. Had the request been granted, this interpretation of the lore would have been used to sustain why it was happening. So it was a logical request. However, they have chosen to go a different way.
    1) Illogical to assume a mixed light-arcane source is 50/50. A mixture can have different proportions, and nowhere was it said the Sunwell is equal parts Holy and Arcane.

    2) Canonically blue eyed Blood Elves were brought up to Kosak and deemed a bug when questioned by someone "are these blue eyed blood elves oversights or intentional". That Kosak claims 'didn't we fix that bug' is indirect admission they're oversight.

    It's just like Ion saying 'it [blue eyes] doesn't make sense for how they've [blood elves] evolved' whoever wanted blue eyed blood elves can kiss that customization goodbye as Ion's explanation implies it's never happening. Sad for those that genuinely wanted them as extra options. But happy that people who just wanted to be toxic towards the High Elf request got shut there.
    Quote Originally Posted by Obelisk Kai View Post
    Void Elves have blue sclera but white irises. They will likely get their own unique eyes as a different playable race. Void Elves after all are blue skinned as well, which as you have argued very recently is extremely thematic of the Alliance. But as Ion also confirmed, the blue eyes on the blood elf model are reserved for npcs, so nobody gets to use them on their playable elf.
    And that wasn't why people were celebrating it but I'm sure you know this. They were celebrating that it defuncts the 'Blood Elves should have blue eyes' arguments that people were heralding around based on multiple leaps of logic on what the Sunwell is, how different forces of magic interact with each other, and on not understanding the visual language of Blood Elves.

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    Quote Originally Posted by bobwuzhere1224 View Post
    It made perfect sense because it was their natural eye color and given Blizzard's comments in regards to how they want players to have their own backstory with extended customizations to explain away troll tribes and wildhammers, it felt reasonable and made perfect sense that Blood Elves would had been given access to Blue eyes among other colors since Blue was a natural color for them.

    Also to point out Obelisk Kai said "However, if Blizzard wishes to preserve the blue eye colour for Void Elves so as to provide another point of differentiation" the keyword is if. Meaning he is speculating for the future, not saying it will be for certain.
    Guess you gotta tell that to Ion because he didn't get the memo then or something?
    Quote Originally Posted by bobwuzhere1224 View Post
    Blood Elves still have Farstriders in their ranks and culture so it stands that they have a good chance at getting Farstrider tattoos. Doesn't have to be blue if that's what you're concerned with.
    I'm not concerned over it. It's the people against High Elves who think just because others are asking for customization options, that those options would be taken away from them. Those people shouldn't be concerned when they see blue warpaint suggested for High Elf customization, or a different idle stance, or more muscle, or customization options that works on High Elves, but not Blood Elves.

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    Quote Originally Posted by ddi2 View Post
    So here you go, I asked you why does it matter whether the parent race and it's equivalent allied race are in the same faction or not in whether you can give the separate models or not and all you've managed to answer here is, essentially, 'because'. You have not given an actual proper explanation and I can simply conclude that you don't have one.

    But really, Blizzard changes a model for High Elves and that's it, Alliance is not 'stealing' your model anymore. You have already said that you are fine with Alliance having a playable race that continues a High elf story. So now we have High Elves that do just that and don't take Horde's model. Win/win. A perfect solution.
    It's kind of funny too because High Elves would be the 'parent race' to the Blood Elves lol. The Blood Elves came after High Elves, not before. To quote a femme Void Elf: "First High. Then Blood. Now Void. Get it right."

  19. #16839
    Now some people are saying that high elves are going to have gold eyes because blood elves are changing to have them. All while they are updating the blue eyed high elf NPCS. Pretty much misses the entire point of making blood elves visually distinct.

  20. #16840
    Quote Originally Posted by bobwuzhere1224 View Post
    I see you still don't understand. What a shame.

    It disrupts faction lines. Void Elves and Nightborne already did this once and Blizzard isn't going to do it again with the same Parent Race. The reason it's okay for Humans and Kul Tirans is because they are the same faction.

    High Elves are not going to get a new model without a significant change to justify it because they haven't had such an event occur in their short period as Exiles to signify a change and are pretty much the same as Blood Elves but with a different political opinion. So they can't be added this way.

    Void Elves are not going to get High Elven customizations because since Blue-Eyes for Blood Elves makes zero sense and erasing the void out of Void Elves makes zero sense.

    As it stands right now, High Elves have little to no chance of being made playable as they are and any model changes they get would have to be reflected in Blood Elves as they are the same race. Which in turn defeats the point.

    Idk how you didn't understand this already but there's the last and final explanation you're getting.
    I could have assumed that you are dodging my question because I wasn't clear enough and you don't understand it but I see in your posts some attempts to actually answer it among all the other irrelevant to my question stuff that you wrote. Suffice to say, I got my answer, though probably not the one you were willing to give.

    Quote Originally Posted by Geisl View Post
    It's kind of funny too because High Elves would be the 'parent race' to the Blood Elves lol. The Blood Elves came after High Elves, not before. To quote a femme Void Elf: "First High. Then Blood. Now Void. Get it right."
    Haha
    Last edited by ddi2; 2020-05-12 at 10:54 PM.

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