1. #16961
    Legendary! Obelisk Kai's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Frenchvince View Post
    There are also farstriders in the alliance, notably in the Silver Covenant.
    No, the Silver Covenant are former Farstriders. If I leave an organisation, I no longer have claim to be a part of that organisation. The actual Farstriders are the Blood Elf Farstriders.

    For example, a soldier who leaves the army is ex-military. A police officer who leaves the force is an ex-cop. And a Farstrider who betrays their nation to help their wartime enemies is a traitor, but we will settle for former Farstrider on this particular point.

  2. #16962
    Quote Originally Posted by Obelisk Kai View Post
    No, the Silver Covenant are former Farstriders. If I leave an organisation, I no longer have claim to be a part of that organisation. The actual Farstriders are the Blood Elf Farstriders.

    For example, a soldier who leaves the army is ex-military. A police officer who leaves the force is an ex-cop. And a Farstrider who betrays their nation to help their wartime enemies is a traitor, but we will settle for former Farstrider on this particular point.
    Yes, but they have the same kind of organization if you prefer.
    Their leader is also called, the general ranger.

    She styled herself as the "Ranger General of the Silver Covenant", her own version of the Ranger General of Silvermoon.
    Last edited by Frenchvince; 2020-05-15 at 03:00 PM.

  3. #16963
    I am Murloc! FlubberPuddy's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Frenchvince View Post
    There are also farstriders in the alliance, notably in the Silver Covenant.
    They're so good at what they do that even Halduron asks Vereesa and her rangers for their help because his own Farstriders are too far away or something like that!

  4. #16964
    Quote Originally Posted by Frenchvince View Post
    Who is this person ? I never saw it...: p
    Halduron Brightwing. He doesn't really leave Quel'Thalas.

  5. #16965
    Legendary! Obelisk Kai's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Frenchvince View Post
    Yes, but they have the same kind of organization if you prefer.
    Their leader is also called, the general ranger.

    She styled herself as the "Ranger General of the Silver Covenant", her own version of the Ranger General of Silvermoon.
    Yep, it's patterned after the Farstriders, to the point of using Farstrider organisation and titles (so much for creating a brand new culture...). But that doesn't mean they are Farstriders. They are former Farstriders.

  6. #16966
    Quote Originally Posted by Geisl View Post
    They're so good at what they do that even Halduron asks Vereesa and her rangers for their help because his own Farstriders are too far away or something like that!
    I am sure that the horde players have seen much more Vereesa than the current general ranger of Silvermoon.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Obelisk Kai View Post
    Yep, it's patterned after the Farstriders, to the point of using Farstrider organisation and titles (so much for creating a brand new culture...). But that doesn't mean they are Farstriders. They are former Farstriders.
    It is a kind of evolution of the Farstrider for the high elves faithful to the alliance.

  7. #16967
    Legendary! Obelisk Kai's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Frenchvince View Post
    It is a kind of evolution of the Farstrider for the high elves faithful to the alliance.
    Then according to that heavily flawed logic they still aren't Farstriders.

  8. #16968
    Quote Originally Posted by Geisl View Post
    Uh no, she said of all the elves she thought they'd understand her the most. Nothing about being remotely worthy of their heritage.

    "Kaldorei? You disgrace a glorious past, hiding in trees and cloaking yourselves in false piety. You have grown as savage as the trolls that skulk about your forest.

    Quel'dorei? You are peasants playing at nobility, all too willing to mingle with lesser races that dilute your bloodline. You are unworthy of the name high elves.

    Sin'dorei? Of all the elves, I thought you might understand the choice I made to save my people. Instead, you ally with misfits and monsters.

    Each of you has debased your proud lineage. Each of you has forgotten the ancient power that is our birthright."
    She thought they would make a cut until she got disappointed. This shows that she placed them a bit above others.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Frenchvince View Post
    Who is this person ? I never saw it...: p
    Halduron Brightwing, Ranger-General of Silvermoon.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Frenchvince View Post
    It is a kind of evolution of the Farstrider for the high elves faithful to the alliance.
    They are imposters then. Just like Lor'themar is a self-proclaimed Regent Lord because rightful queen of Quel'dorei is alive and well.
    https://www.mmo-champion.com/threads...lopment-thread
    Quote Originally Posted by Nevcairiel View Post
    If you are suggesting to take my Night Elfs Shadowmeld away, then please find some pike to run yourself through, tyvm.

  9. #16969
    Brewmaster elbleuet's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Obelisk Kai View Post
    Then according to that heavily flawed logic they still aren't Farstriders.
    We have the proof that Alliance elves are still confirmed to be Farstriders also according to Ros'Eleth in Allerian Stronghold.
    Most young high elves outgrow the 'I wanna be a Farstrider' phase by the time they're taken as apprentices. Then, it's onto the 'I'm going to be a magister' stage.

    I don't think I ever quite outgrew the Farstrider phase, to be honest. No one dreams of growing up to be a seamstress, but we can't have the Farstriders running around naked, as my mother used to say.
    "If you want to play alongside High and Void elves, the Alliance is waiting for you"

  10. #16970
    Brewmaster elbleuet's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Yzak View Post
    Lor'themar was appointed the position by Kael'thas. He was given orders to protect Quel'Thalas and prepare the people to rejoin Kael in Outland. How is he self proclaimed if he was given the position by order of the then Prince Kael'Thas, the current ruler of the time?

    And I'm afraid to ask, but what queen?
    Maybe he means Alleria Windrunner.
    "If you want to play alongside High and Void elves, the Alliance is waiting for you"

  11. #16971
    Quote Originally Posted by elbleuet View Post
    Maybe he means Alleria Windrunner.
    She can stay the hell away from Quel'thalas before she void nukes it and ruins everything that's been rebuilt.

  12. #16972
    Quote Originally Posted by Yzak View Post
    Lor'themar was appointed the position by Kael'thas. He was given orders to protect Quel'Thalas and prepare the people to rejoin Kael in Outland. How is he self proclaimed if he was given the position by order of the then Prince Kael'Thas, the current ruler of the time?

    And I'm afraid to ask, but what queen?
    Queen Azshara, the rightful ruler of elfkind.
    https://www.mmo-champion.com/threads...lopment-thread
    Quote Originally Posted by Nevcairiel View Post
    If you are suggesting to take my Night Elfs Shadowmeld away, then please find some pike to run yourself through, tyvm.

  13. #16973
    Over 9000! Kithelle's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by matrix123mko View Post
    To make it funnier, I'll leave the image of current Ranger-General.



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    Sin'dorei are real Quel'dorei. Elisande recognised blood elves as the only elves even remotely worthy of their heritage.
    Who better to take the mantle of addicts than their addict pals, each time needing others to help them with their addictions!

  14. #16974
    Quote Originally Posted by Kithelle View Post
    Who better to take the mantle of addicts than their addict pals, each time needing others to help them with their addictions!
    It is better to be an addict with dignity than to bow to mortals.
    https://www.mmo-champion.com/threads...lopment-thread
    Quote Originally Posted by Nevcairiel View Post
    If you are suggesting to take my Night Elfs Shadowmeld away, then please find some pike to run yourself through, tyvm.

  15. #16975
    Brewmaster elbleuet's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by matrix123mko View Post


    Sin'dorei are real Quel'dorei. Elisande recognised blood elves as the only elves even remotely worthy of their heritage.
    That's funny because Vereesa (you know... The Ranger General of the Silver Covenant, not a random raid boss with no background) also says blood elves are unworthy of their heritage.
    "If you want to play alongside High and Void elves, the Alliance is waiting for you"

  16. #16976
    Quote Originally Posted by Broflake View Post
    The model is generally not related towards how whether something is or is not a new race. If I remember right, the skinny human model utilized the forsaken one. At one point the zandalari NPC"s used the night elf model.
    It is less about animations and models so much as what is presented immediately.
    Remember, the only difference between a horse and a unicorn is that one has a horn.
    That's not what I am saying; what I am saying is that AR either reuse assets (models, animations) or fantasy/setting/lore. All AR fall on either of these camps, none of them is something entirely "new"

    I understand why you believe I am incorrect, but there is scientific basis that supports my claim along with decades of game design. Animations are the cherry to the ice cream sundae, they aren't a part of the base.
    If I gave humans and night elves the exact same animations and covered them with armor, you'd still know one is different from the other.
    Certainly the females may not look much different, but the differences they do possess are enough to differentiate them. After all, when you do encounter a nightborne as an alliance player, they're attacking you using the same animations that night elves uses as warriors.
    At that point, when the animation differences are completely gone, you still know the difference due to the minute details.
    My issue with your argument is that you drone about game design when NB/NE just fail at that. They are too similar, what I am saying is that is the animation what makes them more different than their model itself, without the animation, they would just fail at being recognizable different.

    Again, so we are clear; I am Not saying that animations are the most relevant aspect in general regarding model design, I am pointing out how in the case of the NB/NE, which the models just fail to make a meaningful difference by themselves, is the animation that adds more differentiation than the model differences. This whole argument is specifically related to how little divergence there is in AR in general, how they are copies of existing assets and not new.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Obelisk Kai View Post
    Ear shape. Skin tone. Musculature. Stance. These are the biological differences between Nightborne and Night Elves. Yet these are exacerbated by their wildly different theme and aesthetic, with the Night Elves being the wood elves of the franchise with their arboreal, druidic lifestyle and the Nightborne really being a second, truer take on the dark elf fantasy with a city based, arcane orientated existence.
    You are missing the point. What I am saying is that any of these things -except stance cause you know, that's behavioral- are no different than the difference between different human ethnicities in game; so the point of "what is a race" in wow is highly inconsistent. There's just no consistent litmus test that says "with enough bilogical differences, you become a different race"


    Mag'har Orcs are uncorrupted Orcs with a far more pronounced clan structure. Azeroth Orcs not only turned green as a result of the fel, but their tenure is a great, socially levelling horde and then in the internment camps has heavily degraded their ancient clan structure which the Mag'har have preserved.

    Highmountain Tauren were blessed by Cenarius. A small change admittedly, but it is enough, there is something there to build an allied race off of.

    Mechagnomes augmentations ARE biological differences, as they have replaced limbs and eyes with mechanical attachments. The differences don't have to be genetic, they merely have to exist. Void Elves aren't genetically different from Blood/high elves, their condition is the result of being bombarded by void energies.
    If some high elves lopped off their legs, arms and eyes then that would pass the diversity test and allow the creation of a new allied race.
    Don't you see the irony? In your own differentiation of the Mag'har you spend more time talking about their cultural differences, which we both know aren't biological!

    Your acceptance of HMT is entirely discretional, and your interpretation off mechagnomes being "biologically different" is just wrong, cause again, chopping off your extremeties doesn't make you "biologically different", less so change your race.

    The whole concept of "race" in WoW is ridiculously inconsistent and only serves a gameplay purpose. You -and really anyone- are setting yourself for failure trying to find a consistent in universe definition of "race" in WoW.

    At the moment there is nothing that contradicts the idea that Void Elves can turn other elves into Void Elves if those elves so wish it. In fact, quite the opposite, what evidence there is strongly suggests they can. Hypothetically, were this possibility to be canonically confirmed, say in the upcoming Shadows Rising novel, what would your argument be then? If that confirmation comes, then the test you've just set will have been met, you can play a Void Elf as a high exile who elected to become a Void Elf.
    Nevertheless, Moorgard's recent interview made clear that the background of your avatar is entirely up to you so long as it doesn't break the lore. A Dwarf player who wishes to roleplay as a Wildhammer Dwarf doesn't need explicit confirmation they are a Wildhammer. A Troll player who wishes to roleplay a Revantusk doesn't need explicit confirmation they are a Revantusk. And a Void Elf player who wishes to roleplay they were a former Silver Covenant elf who, perhaps, got miffed the Kirin Tor handed their base over to the Worgen, and who has now elected to become a Void Elf...well they can do that too.
    Holy macarel! Do you get that "could be" is not the same than "it is", right?

    The argument regarding differentiation clearly applies to those races that otherwise very closely linked. Vulpera and Goblins don't need to prove their differentiation because it is self evident.
    Void Elves and Blood/high elves are differentiated by a combination of biological, thematic and aesthetic factors
    . But High Elven exiles aren't differentiated at all. Same culture, same aesthetic, same race and, thanks to the Sunwell, even the same destiny.
    Oh so you do get is not just about a biological argument. You yourself are aware that is not just a biological factor what makes the differences as you stated above, so why peddle the flawed argument anyway?

    That's the sort of disingenuousness I don't abide. You could actually be consistent if you say that you just don't think are different enough even considering all non biological aspects and that would be fine, cause that's literally the answer. You don't need to devalue your own argument by tackling on a bad point like biological essentialism.

  17. #16977
    I am Murloc! FlubberPuddy's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by MyWholeLifeIsThunder View Post
    That's the sort of disingenuousness I don't abide. You could actually be consistent if you say that you just don't think are different enough even considering all non biological aspects and that would be fine, cause that's literally the answer. You don't need to devalue your own argument by tackling on a bad point like biological essentialism.
    That's the reason it's pointless to discuss against.

    Anti-argument: They look the same/too similar

    Counter: Ok, here's ideas to make them look different.

    Anti-argument: You can't change them because they're the same.

    Counter: Kul'Tirans were same up until Legion, Blizzard changed their model on a whim to add more variety and when deciding to make them an AR.

    Anti-argument: You still can't change them because they're the same race.

    Counter: So is every Allied Race sans Vulpera.

    It's just a "Ring Around the Rosie" situation, keeps going never stops. Thus no sense in continuing it. I'd rather present suggestions/arguments to Blizzard than randos who are not looking to compromise in any way.

  18. #16978
    Quote Originally Posted by Geisl View Post
    Nah this doesn't work for me. I have many friends/guildies I'm attached to on Alliance who I've built bonds with and limited time to play. When I have made an alt horde to unlock Allied Races it just felt hollow and lifeless, not fulfilling at all.

    With limited time to play it's not worth, for me.

    I'm sure many others are attached in the same or similar ways as me.
    Maybe if you spent less time on forums requesting for a race already playable on the Horde you'd have more time to play and maybe experience both sides of the game? Just a thought. You do seem to put a bit of time into here (so do I and others, just noting an observation).

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    Quote Originally Posted by Geisl View Post
    My response was to Broflake saying 'what prevents me from wearing blue on my blood elf' which sidesteps the point I was making earlier that Blood Elf customization for now seems focused on their existing theme colors (red/black/green/gold).

    One can wear blue on a blood elf, but that doesn't make it the thematic color for the race. That is my point, and so far blue has been missing from BE options.

    Things can always change, I never not acknowledged it.
    Fair enough, though doesn't Halduron wear blue? And he is the current ranger general of the farstriders.

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    Quote Originally Posted by matrix123mko View Post
    To make it funnier, I'll leave the image of current Ranger-General.
    Yea I immediately thought him too. Though in saying that I get the point he was making, that generally blood elves are represented with reds, golds and blacks. But despite that there are blood elves sporting other colors such as blues and silvers.
    Blood elves are our high elves - Chris Metzen

  19. #16979
    I am Murloc! FlubberPuddy's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Strippling View Post
    Maybe if you spent less time on forums requesting for a race already playable on the Horde you'd have more time to play and maybe experience both sides of the game? Just a thought. You do seem to put a bit of time into here (so do I and others, just noting an observation).
    Typing out forum responses can take seconds to minutes, not really the same as spending hours upon hours of getting a character going on WoW.

    Just recently we had a guildie trying to make a Horde alt and not longer than a few days they said they can't do it and are going to faction change that character.

    As I've said before, if you have strong connections to one faction, and limited time to play - you're not going to have a fulfilling experience playing the other side with no friends/guildies or anything.

    Only way that works is if that player has no grounded connections in the first place and much more time to play.
    Quote Originally Posted by Strippling View Post
    Fair enough, though doesn't Halduron wear blue? And he is the current ranger general of the farstriders.
    Again, it was never about being able to wear armor. Armor is not inherent character customization screen options, which is what we were originally discussing. Armor is side-stepping the topic and introducing a new topic as if the new topic fulfills the original one. It doesn't.

  20. #16980
    Quote Originally Posted by Geisl View Post
    And despite that, a new blue joined the team that still wishes for Blood Elf Druids. Players, and even Blizzard employees, will always simply request what they want with no regard for whether something actually makes sense or not.

    Because that's the norm. Which is what I've been trying to tell others. Most people will just ask for things, they don't care to ensure 'oh this makes sense in lore and gameplay and yada yada' all the stuff that people are trying to make those requesting High Elves jump hoops over.
    Of course players will request what they want whether it makes sense or not. However, the interview shows though that despite players request (such as playable alliance high elves or void elf paladins), if it doesn't make sense then blizzard are not likely to do it rather than try to fill the status quo.

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    Quote Originally Posted by elbleuet View Post
    That's funny because Vereesa (you know... The Ranger General of the Silver Covenant, not a random raid boss with no background) also says blood elves are unworthy of their heritage.
    Elisande is at least impartial where as Vareesa is naturally biased. Who's a better judge, an impartial one or a biased one?
    Blood elves are our high elves - Chris Metzen

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