Official High Elf Discussion Megathread

[Strippling]

In my opinion, high elves should not be an allied race. A few reasons why:

1. Blood elves are an integral part of the Horde and form a part of the Horde's identity (whether you like it or not). Imo, playable high elves would claim a part of that Horde identity... Void Elves have already done that to a degree, but adding HE would further this. Although somewhat culturally different, the HE would look and play like a BE nonetheless. I have seen ideas thrown around as to how you could make changes to the HE model to differentiate it from BE, but without changing the BE skeleton (say to HE skeleton) you are going to end up with something that still pretty much looks and feels like a BE. Changing the skeleton to human or NE could be a solution, but I get the impression that many HE supporters would not like that.

2. Further to point (1), some HE supporters use the excuse that because VE are now alliance, they're now entitled to have altered BE models (because they're now alliance models too). I understand the direction this point of view is coming from, but I somewhat disagree. Regardless that VE are now alliance, the BE model IS and ALWAYS has been a Horde model in WoW. As a predominantly Horde player, I would feel cheated that one of my factions models has been given to the alliance (with more customization options... between VE and HE). I understand Nightborne were allied to the Horde and were given different customization options, but the same happened with BE -> VE. Simply stated, I would feel cheated if the alliance were given more options for the BE model than Horde, given that its a Horde model through and through. Also, some HE supporters argue that BE should never have joined the Horde, and rather HE should have been a playable alliance faction; this is an invalid point, because regardless of your views of "how the story should have been", that's how the story has been written and that is the current and correct Lore.

3. Popularity of HE. A worry for some is that adding HE might cause a faction imbalance in favor of the Alliance. Currently, the factions seem to have a relatively balanced population (albeit somewhat scaled higher toward the Horde... less than 5% difference). Some HE supporters claim that there is a lot of support/demand for playable HE. If this is true, then there is a risk (could be a low or high risk, but a risk nonetheless) of population imbalance. VE are by far the most popular allied race (for obvious reasons... ie. BE model on alliance), so assuming that HE would far more popular than even VE (given the large amounts of comments claiming VE were an A$$ pull and that it should have been HE as an AR) we have a risk of significant population migration to alliance. ON THE OTHER HAND, some HE supporters claim that the number of HE players would be low (because of possible rep requirements/achievements). If this is the case, then why should another BE model be given to the Alliance for a so called minority? Furthermore, this goes against the claims of some HE supporters that "there is a big demand for HE". So in summary, we could possibly have large numbers of players moving to alliance to play HE (ie. possible faction imbalance), or we could possibly not have many HE players (ie. AR race slot wasted for the Alliance).

4. VE exist. Imo, adding HE could intrude on VE development. A case can be made to argue that it can go along with VE development.. but on the same hand a case could be made that it might possibly steal the spotlight.

5. HE might be wanted by some, but what about the rest of the Alliance playerbase? How would the rest of the Alliance playerbase feel if ANOTHER BE/VE model is added to the Alliance? When that slot could be given to other races (such as Furbolg, NE Worgen, Mechagnomes, etc...) that could provide more variety of choices, as opposed to a blue eyed BE or a pale skinned VE. Just food for thought.

6. What equivalent would be given to the Horde? Some have suggested undead elves or Sen'Layn.. but neither are even remotely as frequently requested as HE. Plus, they are effectively just re-skins of existing Horde models, whereas the HE would be re-skins of the Horde BE model (ie. Horde model). See Point (1) before you say "it's an Alliance model now hur dur". To 'balance' the trade, imo, Undead Variants would be a fair trade. Variants as in the forsaken can choose to be an undead human, elf, gnome, dwarf, orc, etc...

7. Half Elf should not be included in customization options for HE. Imo, half elf and HE should be separate AR if the both are to be considered. Putting both options in customization would be an unfair inclusion.

So, if Blizzard are considering playable HE, I would humbly request that they consider:
1. the fact that you would be imparting a part of the Horde identity to alliance.
2. there could be a possible (emphasis on possible) faction imbalance due to HE. This risk should be considered and a suitable control measure implemented (this could be done by implementing rep requirements, only offering limited class options to HE, only offering limited customization options to HE)
3. the rest of the Alliance playerbase. How would they feel getting another BE/VE model as opposed to an AR that could provide some well accepted variety.

Before any HE supporters get offended at my comments, please note that this is my opinion on why I don't think HE should be playable. I accept that HE have a good lore foundation, have been allied with the Alliance for a while and that their presence is seen from time to time in various expansions. I just feel that adding playable HE is somewhat inconsiderate to the Horde population who take pride in their allied friends "The Blood Elves".

If HE become playable, then that's fine. As stated, I'm just expressing my opinion on the matter. My opinion could be seen as wrong to some, and right to others.. and that's okay... But before you point the finger and accuse me of "this or that", please remember that your comments are your opinion also and some may or may not agree with your opinion. I would appreciate that proper thought and design be put into this idea, if HE are to be considered. It isn't as easy as saying "we are entitled to them", you need to consider that the High Elven society has been a major part of the Horde for the last 13 years or so, in the form of BE. Blood Elves, although culturally and politically different from HE, are still part of the greater High Elven society. Compare it to the polynesian people... the polynesians of Hawaii (lets call them Hawaiin's) sailed west many years ago and landed on the shores of other polynesian islands. One land they arrived at is called New Zealand... and they polynesians of New Zealand are called Maori's, who are descendants of the Hawaiin's. Although there are some cultural differences between the two groups of people, they are both still part of the POLYNESIAN group. Likewise for BE and HE.

[Gurluas]

The red eyes were a Blood elf feature to begin with, all the vanilla models wearing red clothes were Belves.. All the High elves had blue or white eyes. If I remember correctly a Highborne in Azuremyst also used the vanilla Helf model. It doesn't mean much I think.

[Nappydwarf]

This is the first time I came into this thread, wtf is that shit on the first page😂😂 y'all really want clown elves as your aesthetic?

[Traycor]

One thing going in favor of playable High Elves:

The High Elves are sucking up much of the Allied Race discussion, and most anything said on the topic eventually comes back to High Elves. Blizzard clearly has to see this, and as a company they are going to want the community to focus on whatever they are releasing now. Most especially with the expansion about to release. A shadow that is controlling this much of the conversation can steer things in directions the marketing department does not want them to go.

And 'eliminating' High Elves would only make that worse.

It's possible that Blizzard will announce their intention to add High Elves at some nebulous point in the future, and make the announcement before the Expansion goes live. This would allow Blizz to redirect the conversation on the marketing items they are pushing right now, which is critical when an expansion is around the corner.

Just my random thoughts and speculation...

[Chemical Ellis]

Realistically, given the 'subrace' approach Blizz is taking, I don't think we can expect High Elves in the immediate future. At the very least, I don't think Wildhammers, Krokul, or Quel'dorei will begin to be considered Alliance side until after gnomes, worgen, and pandaren get their own subraces.

BUT the continuous discussion (and backlash to being given Blood Elves twice) goes beyond anything that can be ignored. If more allied races are coming after each existing race has a 'counterpart,' I wouldn't be surprised if High Elves were near the top of the roster.

One thing that I haven't really seen discussed, and might be a good angle on 'reintroducing' High Elves to the Alliance - what caused the original schism in Quel'Thalas society in the first place? The break between High and Blood Elves was formalized in the aftermath of the Third War, but it existed since at least the Second - Silvermoon was only ever nominally a member of the Alliance, committing the bare minimum to pay lip service to an ancient obligation, while those elves who actually DID fight and die alongside humans and dwarves acted independently of their kingdom's directives, and had already broken with Silvermoon culture. Honestly, how many named Blood Elf npcs are there who ever actually fought for the Alliance (and not just Quel'thalas)? I can't think of any.

We know Alleria led this 'rogue' contingent. Many of them ended up journeying to Draenor in the Sons of Lothar. At least a couple of those left behind helped form the Silver Covenant. And Alleria abandoned the position of Ranger General - which rightfully should have been hers - to safeguard her independence. But we don't really know why. What caused such a significant portion of Quel'thalas society to turn their back on their insular and patrician culture and dedicate themselves to a duty alongside those who were largely strangers to them? Could there have been some tension between the Farstriders and the Sunstrider dynasty going back even before Kael? And would this break have manifested, even without the Alliance or the threat of the Horde?

A question worth answering - what does it mean, to a High Elf, to be a High Elf? Their identity has been divorced from that of their kingdom for decades. So, what is the kernel of their culture that defines them? And how does it clash with the values of Silvermoon?

[Traycor]

One thing that I haven't really seen discussed, and might be a good angle on 'reintroducing' High Elves to the Alliance - what caused the original schism in Quel'Thalas society in the first place? The break between High and Blood Elves was formalized in the aftermath of the Third War, but it existed since at least the Second - Silvermoon was only ever nominally a member of the Alliance, committing the bare minimum to pay lip service to an ancient obligation, while those elves who actually DID fight and die alongside humans and dwarves acted independently of their kingdom's directives, and had already broken with Silvermoon culture. Honestly, how many named Blood Elf npcs are there who ever actually fought for the Alliance (and not just Quel'thalas)? I can't think of any.

We know Alleria led this 'rogue' contingent. Many of them ended up journeying to Draenor in the Sons of Lothar. At least a couple of those left behind helped form the Silver Hand. And Alleria abandoned the position of Ranger General - which rightfully should have been hers - to safeguard her independence. But we don't really know why. What caused such a significant portion of Quel'thalas society to turn their back on their insular and patrician culture and dedicate themselves to a duty alongside those who were largely strangers to them? Could there have been some tension between the Farstriders and the Sunstrider dynasty going back even before Kael? And would this break have manifested, even without the Alliance or the threat of the Horde?

A question worth answering - what does it mean, to a High Elf, to be a High Elf? Their identity has been divorced from that of their kingdom for decades. So, what is the kernel of their culture that defines them? And how does it clash with the values of Silvermoon?

Excellent questions! These ideas, going all the way back to WCII and likey before, could be well worth answering. Sounds like a Warcraft novel in the making!

[Deleted]

One thing going in favor of playable High Elves:

The High Elves are sucking up much of the Allied Race discussion, and most anything said on the topic eventually comes back to High Elves. Blizzard clearly has to see this, and as a company they are going to want the community to focus on whatever they are releasing now. Most especially with the expansion about to release. A shadow that is controlling this much of the conversation can steer things in directions the marketing department does not want them to go.

Well they said it is a fan favourit.
Also with Jermemy Feasle in the interview directly mentioning High Elves after he asked for feedback for future races, this clearly shows that eventually every feedback and discussion about allied races will be focused on high elves. Blizz knows this.

I am pretty sure they didn't know that their take on high elves with void elves would not satisfy the fans. I think they were surprised themselves and now realized that only real High elves will be able to satisfy that desire, well and now they try to figure out what to do.

Like I said the feedback has been heard loud and clear and it now comes to the question what Blizz wants to do about it. They know that every "almost High-Elves" solution wouldn't work but they also can't just get rid of void elves now.
So I think Blizz is in a tough spot here. They know they have to do something but that doesn't really fit in the current scheme and stuff like the addition of more and more high elves and interviews where they are mentioned is nothing that helps Blizz to cool the demand down.

I really, really can't believe Blizz is not allready in the process of adding them.
Blizz normally doesn't hint on stuff that isn't really going to happen, they know their player base and the expectation even the slightest hint creates. And in case of High Elves there have not only been whispered hints, there were thunderstrucs of hints. Blizz is currently even shoving High Elves in every situation the only thing that currently is missing is a clear: Yes we're doing it.

But a senior designer saying "You have my vote" in terms of High Elves is very, very unusual. Muffinus directly mentioning High Elves in a situation where expectations are extremely high and charged and the NPCs added, is just too much for Blizzard in a very short amount of time for it to be a joke or anything unspecific.

[Magnagarde]

High elves actually make it easy for Blizzard to come up with an allied race for the Alliance, especially considering there's only so few allied races they can add to the Alliance without the community doing the "It's another asspull!" reaction. I'm pretty sure that high elves would bring in the big bucks, so if you're expecting to see high elves and are hopeful about them, then expect them before quarterly financial reports that also coincided with major patches.

[Traycor]

Well they said it is a fan favourit.
Also with Jermemy Feasle in the interview directly mentioning High Elves after he asked for feedback for future races, this clearly shows that eventually every feedback and discussion about allied races will be focused on high elves. Blizz knows this.

I am pretty sure they didn't know that their take on high elves with void elves would not satisfy the fans. I think they were surprised themselves and now realized that only real High elves will be able to satisfy that desire, well and now they try to figure out what to do.

Like I said the feedback has been heard loud and clear and it now comes to the question what Blizz wants to do about it. They know that every "almost High-Elves" solution wouldn't work but they also can't just get rid of void elves now.
So I think Blizz is in a tough spot here. They know they have to do something but that doesn't really fit in the current scheme and stuff like the addition of more and more high elves and interviews where they are mentioned is nothing that helps Blizz to cool the demand down.

I really, really can't believe Blizz is not allready in the process of adding them.
Blizz normally doesn't hint on stuff that isn't really going to happen, they know their player base and the expectation even the slightest hint creates. And in case of High Elves there have not only been whispered hints, there were thunderstrucs of hints. Blizz is currently even shoving High Elves in every situation the only thing that currently is missing is a clear: Yes we're doing it.

But a senior designer saying "You have my vote" in terms of High Elves is very, very unusual. Muffinus directly mentioning High Elves in a situation where expectations are extremely high and charged and the NPCs added, is just too much for Blizzard in a very short amount of time for it to be a joke or anything unspecific.

While I've never followed the forums much, this seems to be more teasing in a short amount of time than we've had in the last 10 years. The 2014 interview mention is the only thing that seems to come close to this.

- - - Updated - - -

y'all really want clown elves as your aesthetic?

WCII clown elves, yes please.

They'll fit in nicely with the clown brown orcs, lightforged, trolls, and any other option that has face paint or tattoos.

[Azrathel]

Wowpedia says that "high elves typically have light colored eyes that vary from light grey to blue to green, and occasionally brown", citing Tides of Darkness, page 229. Perhaps the red-ish eyes are meant to be a variation of the brown. Note also, that the green eyes of the high elves are "opposed to the neon-iridescent green eyes of blood elves".

[Traycor]

Wowpedia says that "high elves typically have light colored eyes that vary from light grey to blue to green, and occasionally brown", citing Tides of Darkness, page 229. Perhaps the red-ish eyes are meant to be a variation of the brown. Note also, that the green eyes of the high elves are "opposed to the neon-iridescent green eyes of blood elves".

That's from the RPG pen and paper games. All that material was declared non-canon after WoW was released.

[Garfurion]

That's from the RPG pen and paper games. All that material was declared non-canon after WoW was released.

Tides of Darkness isn't an RPG book, it's a novel (and canon). Alleria according to one of the novels has green eyes. In the case of Elves and eye-color yt's best to ignore these small lore inconsistencies though. Most Night-Elves should have silver eyes which also isn't the case in game.

[Traycor]

Tides of Darkness isn't an RPG book, it's a novel (and canon).

I stand corrected!

[Tantypops]

To be honest if the Alliance wants their High Elves with already present Void Elves, let them have it. As long as they keep the number of allied races introduced the same between factions, Horde will get the more interesting races while Alliance will only get recolours at this rate.

[Azrathel]

Although, according to Christie Golden's novels, Velen has alabaster white skin. I'm not sure how we're supposed to interpret that, but even with his unique model, his canon in-game appearance and his canon novel appearance don't match. Not even remotely. Which makes anything possible, I suppose.

[FlubberPuddy]

To be honest if the Alliance wants their High Elves with already present Void Elves, let them have it. As long as they keep the number of allied races introduced the same between factions, Horde will get the more interesting races while Alliance will only get recolours at this rate.

Well I mean it's Horde's theme to be a mish mash of races you wouldn't think would work together, actually work together lol. So their choices will always appear drastic and no cohesiveness appearance wise. Think about it like how Zuldazar is incredibly colorful with lots of different colors being thrown in and very vibrant. Then there's Boralus that is close to what you'd see in reality with a lot of same-y/neutral colors etc.

That's just how the Alliance theme is, a bunch of slight variations on the same foundation with a few pinches of woah thrown in (Worgen, Draenei). Heck Alliance are going to have 3 different types of Humans soon. I think most Alliance players are in fact fans of the tighter-knit variation we have going on compared to Horde side.

[Azrathel]

We're maybe more traditionalists in the Alliance. While I'm very open to great diversity, I also really want that old school, old Alliance feel that I know from the earlier games. High elves are a huge part of that.

Seeing as most of the high elves alive today were for a brief period of time included in the racial name change, and were called blood elves (you know, that awkward time between Kael'Thas renaming his people and Lor'Themar kicking out those who refused to draw the arcane energies out of living beings, and them renaming themselves high elves), would it be possible for blood elves today to rejoin the Alliance and become high elves again?

[Lumineus]

To be honest if the Alliance wants their High Elves with already present Void Elves, let them have it. As long as they keep the number of allied races introduced the same between factions, Horde will get the more interesting races while Alliance will only get recolours at this rate.

Well it's not like we'll get a better deal regardless. Alliance are getting ripped off either way. They could have made high elves and had "void tainted" as a barbershop option like Orcish chiropractic aid, and just handwaved the fact that Paladins could do it for gameplay reasons. Or we could have had every version of Dwarves under a single slot, like they did for Mag'har, who also got class options handwaved for gameplay (Shattered Hand Priests, ROFL).

[Deleted]

Or we could have had every version of Dwarves under a single slot, like they did for Mag'har, who also got class options handwaved for gameplay (Shattered Hand Priests, ROFL).

I think these priests are more connected towards the Shadowmoonclan who practises shadow magic.

[Lumineus]

Yeah, that's my point. I just picked the most egregious example. Blackrock Priests? Frostwolf Priests? Warsong Priests? Handwaved! Wildhammer Mage? How dare you butcher the lore like that!!1111!one