Official High Elf Discussion Megathread

[elbleuet]

I had fun making a feminine version of Lor'Themar.

Lorthemar new model ?

[Frenchvince]

Lorthemar new model ?

A creation of the wowhead dressroom.^^

[FlubberPuddy]

I had fun making a feminine version of Lor'Themar.

This is actually going to make a certain group happy :O

Looks like a true genderbend elf.

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WoWHead updated their dressroom app.

Checking out void elf eye colors, the blue ones really don't fit with standard velf aesthetic.
I wonder if they are for some kind of NPC (despite not being flagged as such, but blue belf eyes are also currenly not flagged as NPC-only), or if they are a sign that we may end up getting some sort of high elf (or quasi-high elf) customization for void elves.

Wowhead acknowledged that blue eyes are confirmed for NPCs and more likely to be for Void Elves but that they also work in their dressing room.

"Edit: these blue eyes are likely related to the new Void Elf customization options instead, but the blue eyes DO work in our Dressing Room as player customization options for Blood Elves."

So probably just to let people have fun since it does work lol

[DeicideUH]

Wowhead acknowledged that blue eyes are confirmed for NPCs and more likely to be for Void Elves but that they also work in their dressing room.

"Edit: these blue eyes are likely related to the new Void Elf customization options instead, but the blue eyes DO work in our Dressing Room as player customization options for Blood Elves."

So probably just to let people have fun since it does work lol

The blue eyes exist in the files for both blood and void elves, and in neither they are flagged as NPC-only (unlike the purple eyes for both).
Ion did confirm that blood elves won't get blue eyes, thought, and it's obvious that there would be need of blue eyes for the existing high elf NPCs. But what about the blue eyes for void elves? Are they placeholder for something else? Are they meant for some specific NPCs? Or are they true player options? Only time (or Ion) can tell.

[FlubberPuddy]

The blue eyes exist in the files for both blood and void elves, and in neither they are flagged as NPC-only (unlike the purple eyes for both).
Ion did confirm that blood elves won't get blue eyes, thought, and it's obvious that there would be need of blue eyes for the existing high elf NPCs. But what about the blue eyes for void elves? Are they placeholder for something else? Are they meant for some specific NPCs? Or are they true player options? Only time (or Ion) can tell.

True, but I think that's why Zorbix tweeted out what he did. They're probably trying to organize what players are actually getting for races and what they are not, hence certain characters unable to be created/current ones locked as they hammer out what they need to.

They probably don't want to create more controversy lol And remember Ion said you can apply any texture to any race in datamining, doesn't mean that's what they'll actually get.

The flagging is another business, but I think that's what Zorbix is tweeting about.

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In any case, if Blood Elves actually get blue eyes then it shows Ion did straight up say incorrect information, or told a lie. AkA you can't just simply go by developer's words lol

It would mean despite him making a statement about inclusions in game, that doesn't mean it's actually true from an empirical sense. Aka "Word of God" in arguments would then become faulty.

Not like it already wasnt with saying ZD druid forms only applied to travel form but y'know more evidence!

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Too bad this still doesn't exist yet for players!

[Varx]

I wouldn't be surprised if blue eyes will actually be available for players and Ion just said they're NPC only for crowd control during SL alpha/beta.

[elbleuet]

Niiice. Have faith. We will have them in the end.

[Ardenaso]

that's actually a good model for a generic High Elf Paladin for Reforged. Just change eyes to green and shove in a libram behind his waist

[MyWholeLifeIsThunder]

Clearly neither of us are understanding each others points of views. I feel the point of my reply to you got lost along the way, and you seem to think I have some vendetta against a name or a group.. I don't FYI. Perhaps it comes down to reading a text is not the same as having face to face convo. Nevertheless, suffice it to say I have no issue with high elves calling themselves as such or that they exist. I appreciate nuance. The position I hold is that racial uniqueness is an integral aspect of WoW.. it's been key feature of WoW since it's inception. Each race is unique from one another, each race has its own thematic, culture, etc..

I'm just pointing out that "blood elves are WoW's high elves" as a concept is immaterial to which group gets called "high elf" in game.

The crux of alliance high elves is that what sets them apart from their already playable kin is politics. That's it. From a GAMEPLAY perspective how do you differentiate that? You can't. Blood elves and high elves are the same race. Thematically they are the same too. HE fans seem to push this "woodland elf" agenda to show how alliance high elves are different, but the next issue is that the farstriders are exactly that and they are a blood elf unit. Gameplay wise high elves would do nothing but water down blood elves. Lorewise it doesn't matter whether they're playable or not because their inclusion in the WoW universe would exist regardless. HE fans then say "well make them look different I just want to play an elf that's been loyal to the Alliance"... ok well it's safe to assume that the high elf wayfarers at Telogrus Rift are studying the void. One could easily RP their void elf as an elf who was always loyal to the Alliance. They look different and can easily be RP'ed as a high elf, so what's the issue with this? Why do light skins and hair have to be an option (an option mind you that would essentially make them blood elves tit for tat)? The issue is that all arguments aside HE fans want to play an aesthetic and thematic already manifested in the blood elves. This watering down of blood elves would be inevitable. Gameplay wise it just doesn't make sense.

There are a couple issues with this logic:

-"thematically they are the same" No they aren't. How are the group that rebuilt their civilization and homeland and the one that lives hosted by human civilization even close to be thematically the same? Even if their politics were the same this distinction would be noticeable.

-Of course there is going to be cultural overlap (like Farstriders) if they share the same heritage. Just like it is for NE and Nb with Elune. But the fact their focus and composition would be different already makes for markedly different experiences.

-How do HE water down BE? How you can quantify that beyond a "it makes them less special."?

-I would have been happy if VE's had been made out of High Elves. Said this multiple times already. Still hoping we get a nod in the actual canon that HE's have joined the VE ranks.

-The BE and HE thematics just aren't the same man, they hit different. They believe different things, want different things, how are they thematically the same? Beyond Farstriders, what's the Thalassian thematic that they actually share? Then we are back to the "watering down" of blood elves that is simply a nonsense argument that I can't conceive beyond "we would feel less special"

So, please, explain to me why it would be acceptable to water down a race that has been core to the Horde for over a decade? Despite alliance high elves existing in story (which they can continue to do so), why should blood elves (the main high elven race) be watered down from a gameplay perspective? The lore is not an issue, neither is the name, the issue is that racial uniqueness has been an integral part of WoW and the "high elf theme" is covered by the blood elves who are on the Horde. Giving the Alliance void elves and high elves would give them two variants of the "high elves" to Horde's one, despite the majority of thalassian elves being allied to the Horde. So, again, GAMEPLAY wise explain to me where alliance high elves fit in without directly impeding on the blood elves.

Still not getting how Blood Elves are watered down from a gameplay perspective with any of this beyond losing exclusivity. And that's more design choices than something that affects the actual gameplay. Your experience is not "watered down" because a player from the opposing faction shares the model, see, pandaren, but then, I am not even asking that necessarily, not on those terms.

Is faction exclusivity important? It's subjective, it's not a "truth" or fact. But the devs agree with that, that's why the races that have crossed over the faction line had been altered. I don't believe aesthetic exclusivity when it regards to a model is important, from a gameplay perspective it doesn't matter (see pandaren) and I hope that changes some day because that arbitrary decision runs against the lore and consistency of the universe -an ostensible political divide when we have already seen multiple races "choose" both sides makes no sense to be locked by race-

Blood Elves don't lose ANYTHING material if High Elves are playable, *just* the exclusivity. And whether that matters or not is entirely subjective. So again, framing it as a loss for the BE's is just inaccurate beyond that entirely subjective appreciation.

And yet, it's not like High Elves couldn't be made playable with a different model to allow BE's to keep that exclusivity, or San'layn be added to the Horde to create an "elf balance" or all of this not being an issue if they had made the actual High Elves on the alliance the Void Elves instead of... a group of new BE exiles dear lord.

[Ardenaso]

Alright, since Blood Elves are High Elves, then why do people still see Purge of Dalaran as racism and genocide when Jaina (retconned) only teleported everyone into the prison and the ones who did the actual killings other than the PC were... the High Elves

I made a correction

[Strippling]

Just a genuine question: was there any indication of the smaller Blood Elf ears being a player or NPC asset?

Not sure, though I'd wager that they will be an option for blood and void elves.

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A really nice compromise would be to have fair skinned options to void elves.

Blood hair would remain a blood elf exclusive option.

Then we would get blue-eyed, cold haired void elves. Not exactly high elves. Not exactly void elves.

A purple haired, blue-eyed void elf with fair skin would look awesome I think.

But they are void elves, why give them customizations that would make them "not exactly void elves"?

[Syegfryed]

The blue eyes exist in the files for both blood and void elves, and in neither they are flagged as NPC-only (unlike the purple eyes for both).
Ion did confirm that blood elves won't get blue eyes, thought, and it's obvious that there would be need of blue eyes for the existing high elf NPCs. But what about the blue eyes for void elves? Are they placeholder for something else? Are they meant for some specific NPCs? Or are they true player options? Only time (or Ion) can tell.

Ion or the devs can sure go back with their stance and chose to give both elves all eye color because of the forum drama, what is fair and make more sense lorewise, since elves eyes change based on the magic they use, so a mage would have blue or purple eye, regardless of the elf, completely pointless to create new eye colors and stuck in npc only options

This blue eye is also a bit green, its unlikely to be for void elves too

[Obelisk Kai]

Why should I point out that so far Void Elves are former Blood Elves only, seeing you know that since they are described as such and everything else is just a speculation? I know you first responded to my post about the eyes because you have the urge to discuss the same things over and over, but I don't want to participate in another one, we have had this discussion like three times. It's you who says WoG trumps everything, you can't have the cake and eat it too.

It is confirmed that the Void Elves are former Blood Elves. That should put it to rest and so far it rules out Alliance High Elves becoming Void Elves. So far it's only your hope so playable Alliance High Elves won't happen. That's just your wish and nothing in game or in lore tells other wise.

Don't lose hope though. It might happen.

Yet you have failed to provide word of god evidence that alliance high elves are not becoming void elves, which was the point of the request. Were you to ask the same question of me to support my position, I would happily oblige. That you would then dispute the result is of course not in doubt, but I could meet the request.

You do not have word of god on this topic. You adhere to a stance that may turn out to be true in the end, but for which there is precious little supporting evidence. This stance is adhered to, not because it is obvious, but because refusing to accept high elf exiles CAN become void elves serves the goal of high elves as a standalone race in the future. As void elves being able to turn high elves into void elves conflicts with this goal, it has to be opposed.

And your right, this particular topic has been debated to death. I suppose a relatively neutral observer would conclude there is enough ambiguity that anyone who wished to roleplay a void elf as a former high elf would have no problem doing so. How fortunate then that this is the sort of roleplay Steve Danuser encouraged, one without explicit confirmation but which doesn't contradict the lore and is believable.

[Strippling]

There are a couple issues with this logic:

-"thematically they are the same" No they aren't. How are the group that rebuilt their civilization and homeland and the one that lives hosted by human civilization even close to be thematically the same? Even if their politics were the same this distinction would be noticeable.

You're describing a difference in their lore over the past decade, not their thematics. Thematically, both alliance high elves and blood elves are the same. They are both a thalassian elf who share a ranger theme and a magister theme. The blood elves also have a paladin or blood knight theme that the alliance high elves don't have, but that doesn't change the fact that all of the alliance high elf themes are shared by the blood elves. The high elves have no theme unique to them. You talking about "one rebuilding their civilization and the other being hosted by humans" is more so a lore difference, not a thematic difference. Void elves are a thematic difference, their theme is the void... a theme not included within blood elven society. So again, alliance high elves would detract from the blood elf theme. That is not subjective, that is fact.

-Of course there is going to be cultural overlap (like Farstriders) if they share the same heritage. Just like it is for NE and Nb with Elune. But the fact their focus and composition would be different already makes for markedly different experiences.

NE have a forest dwelling, druidic theme. NB have a city dwelling, arcane theme. There is hardly an overlap. ALliance high elves and blood elves overlap to a far greater extent, to the point that their militant units are even categorized the same.

-How do HE water down BE? How you can quantify that beyond a "it makes them less special."?

You're being purposefully obtuse. It doesn't take a rocket scientist to see how HE would water down BE. Putting your ears in your fingers and shouting "la la la" doesn't change the reality that HE would water down BE. It's why Blizzard have not made them playable to this day. It's why Blizzard gave us VE instead. You talk lots about me being subjective, yet you're very response to me was entirely subjective. At the end of the day Blizzard direct the game, and they have deemed that HE would water down BE. So no, it's not about "making them less special", it's about preserving racial uniqueness for player characters which is founded upon a core precept of WoW.

-I would have been happy if VE's had been made out of High Elves. Said this multiple times already. Still hoping we get a nod in the actual canon that HE's have joined the VE ranks.

Something we agree on.

-The BE and HE thematics just aren't the same man, they hit different. They believe different things, want different things, how are they thematically the same? Beyond Farstriders, what's the Thalassian thematic that they actually share? Then we are back to the "watering down" of blood elves that is simply a nonsense argument that I can't conceive beyond "we would feel less special"

That's your opinion. Just because you feel it a nonsense argument doesn't mean it is so. Again, explain to me why VE are playable and not HE if "watering down" of BE is a nonsense argument? Show me where Blizzard said it was a nonsense argument and I'll secede.

As to the rest of your response, it's basically your opinion vs mine. Not going to debate any further about points that we view differently. Everything you said was subjective. Blizzards stance to this day is that alliance high elves would water down blood elves, and I agree with them. It's not about "making blood elves less special" (which appears to be an attempt on your part to diminish my arguments, rather than address them), it's about preserving important aspects of WoW.

[elbleuet]

But they are void elves, why give them customizations that would make them "not exactly void elves"?

To reach a compromise.

Currently void elves are purple, gothic elves. I want to play a new generation of blood/high elves trained by Alleria and Umbric. We know these elves won't pass through the same transformation the blood elves under Umbric's leadership did because all that happened what an accident.

So playing a fair skinned high elf with blue eyes but purple/cold hairs sounds like a good compromise. Blond elves would remain in the Horde.

Anyways, the new blue eyes for the void elves absolutely don't fit their voidy aesthetics. So I'm pretty confident we'll end up getting fair skinned options one day or another.

[Doffen]

Yet you have failed to provide word of god evidence that alliance high elves are not becoming void elves, which was the point of the request.

Word of God says that Void Elves are a group of former BLOOD ELVES. That's the evidence. So yes, I provided just that. But you know this, so I am not sure why I have to provide anything. You are simply wrong in your way of thinking, and to me it's baffling that you still try to make this point so Alliance High Elves won't be. It's pathetic and to be so obsessed about it is kinda frightening to me.

Practice WoG all the time, or don't. Make up your mind. To make me "prove" something you already now it's a waste of time and I don't get why I even go the length and link what Void Elves are.

"The void elves (or ren'dorei, for "Children of the Void" in Thalassian)[1] are one of the playable Alliance allied races in World of Warcraft, introduced at the end of Legion. Once blood elves, they succumbed to void corruption after an expedition exploring new magics went awry."

Just like the game reflects it. End of story.

[Obelisk Kai]

Word of God says that Void Elves are a group of former BLOOD ELVES. That's the evidence. So yes, I provided just that. But you know this, so I am not sure why I have to provide anything. You are simply wrong in your way of thinking, and to me it's baffling that you still try to make this point so Alliance High Elves won't be. It's pathetic and to be so obsessed about it is kinda frightening to me.

Practice WoG all the time, or don't. Make up your mind. To make me "prove" something you already now it's a waste of time and I don't get why I even go the length and link what Void Elves are.

"The void elves (or ren'dorei, for "Children of the Void" in Thalassian)[1] are one of the playable Alliance allied races in World of Warcraft, introduced at the end of Legion. Once blood elves, they succumbed to void corruption after an expedition exploring new magics went awry."

Just like the game reflects it. End of story.

You quoted wowpedia? You are aware Wowpedia is an open source wiki editable by anyone right? I mean here is what the passage said on the 18th April.
The void elves are an allied race affiliated with the Alliance.

The void elf's choice of mount is the voidstrider, a shadow-infused hawkstrider. Their chosen language is Thalassian, while they are also able to speak Common.

Now, whilst I guess it is theoretically possible that a dev was the one who made the change, it was actually someone named Rayndorn who seems to be going around tidying things up. His interpretation is of course open to debate, it is not word of god.

If I was of a mind, I could create an account, log in and change it back to what it was just over month ago. Would you then treat that statement as word of god? I don't think you would.

Word of God is something sourced from the developers or depicted in game. Not what someone edits a wowpedia article to reflect their own biases over. And to save us the bother, yes in game the initial origin story depicts a group of Blood Elves as being amongst the initial transformed group but they were a tiny group of mages and warlocks which does not explain the five other classes void elves can be, the presence of blood/high elves clearly preparing for transformation, the presence of void elf neophytes receiving tutelage from a more experienced instructor, the existence of voidstriders who have similarly be transformed by the void and the sheer number of void elves depicted in game which does not tally with the initial group. All easily accounted for if you go with the common sense rationale that void elves can turn other elves into void elves, including high elves.

Oh, and Moorgard's interview quote which I will happily place against the wowpedia quote you've used above because that is genuine word of god. I don't think Rayndorn outranks Moorgard here.

[Broflake]

Are there any other reasons why you think this is the case? The Shen'dralar and Nightborne were without Moonwells and nowhere near proximity to the Well of Eternity yet never changed from Night elves.

NOOO I LOST MY ENTIRE POST RESPONDING TO YOU!

*cries*

Dramatics aside.

For the shendralar and nightborne I have an excellent explanation.
The shendralar have a moonwell in Diremaul they could reasonably access, and given that WoW does not accurately portray geography and the fact that the Shendralar had created a network to move about, it is reasonable to say theyhad access to said moonwell if not said moonwell being a part of their home.
The nightborne, had access to the nightwell as a substitute for the well of eternity.

In terms of the high elves and their appearance, I believe it is due to how long they went without access to a powerful arcane source on top of being cut off from Cenarius which reflects their diminutive stature. The primary reason I don't find the intellect matter feasible is mostly because Blizzard is rather specific on the effects of the loss, and we have seem them bring up this specificity for the goblins and theloss of kajamite wth its subsequent restoration.

Intelligence is also rather difficult to measure, and there doesn't appear to be anything to suggest that the average night elf is anymore intelligent than the blood elves or other races for that matter. I also believe thereis a point where the blood elves mock the night elf mages for using outdated techniques in their arcane skill.
Of course, given they lost what... a foot in height, if there is a loss of intellect it may be so small as to go unnoticed until the creation of the sunwell.


Either way, I do think it is particularly interesting how the troll races were so powerfully affected to the point that as elves, they're utterly reliant on what is azeroth's bath water.

[Doffen]

You quoted wowpedia? You are aware Wowpedia is an open source wiki editable by anyone right? I mean here is what the passage said on the 20th April.

Ah yes, the "Wowiiki and wowpedia is not valid" cliche. Yeah, they write it differently from one page to the other, yes. But that's not the point. The proof is in game even. You link it from those pages yourself now and then, but of course it's not valid when it doesn't fit your narrative. And that you then proceeds to use one of them who doesn't outright say what they are it's suddenly valid :P Imagine being this disingenuous.

And yes, I linked that because they write how it is in the game, and what Void Elves are. And you know this, and I shouldn't have to link it even because that's what it says in game. And then you write an essay on that wowiiki and wowpedia isn't reliable sources, it's just ridiculous. I am speechless.

I think the game outranks Moorgards no-answer here if you want to go that way. But I am done anyways. To let myself go into this with someone like you again is my bad. You should read up on Void Elf lore btw, seems you need it.

[FlubberPuddy]

Ion or the devs can sure go back with their stance and chose to give both elves all eye color because of the forum drama, what is fair and make more sense lorewise, since elves eyes change based on the magic they use, so a mage would have blue or purple eye, regardless of the elf, completely pointless to create new eye colors and stuck in npc only options

This blue eye is also a bit green, its unlikely to be for void elves too

That's been there since the first unveiling of blood elves eye customizations, when people speculated blue eyes would be for them.

That specific option you're showing is amongst the green eyes so this eye color will probably be the closest Blood Elves get to 'blue eyes' but it's more teal green/sea green than the very frank blue that's going to void elves or the DK blood elf eyes.

Sea Green Palette