Official High Elf Discussion Megathread

[Doffen]

Yet you have failed to provide word of god evidence that alliance high elves are not becoming void elves, which was the point of the request.

Word of God says that Void Elves are a group of former BLOOD ELVES. That's the evidence. So yes, I provided just that. But you know this, so I am not sure why I have to provide anything. You are simply wrong in your way of thinking, and to me it's baffling that you still try to make this point so Alliance High Elves won't be. It's pathetic and to be so obsessed about it is kinda frightening to me.

Practice WoG all the time, or don't. Make up your mind. To make me "prove" something you already now it's a waste of time and I don't get why I even go the length and link what Void Elves are.

"The void elves (or ren'dorei, for "Children of the Void" in Thalassian)[1] are one of the playable Alliance allied races in World of Warcraft, introduced at the end of Legion. Once blood elves, they succumbed to void corruption after an expedition exploring new magics went awry."

Just like the game reflects it. End of story.

[Obelisk Kai]

Word of God says that Void Elves are a group of former BLOOD ELVES. That's the evidence. So yes, I provided just that. But you know this, so I am not sure why I have to provide anything. You are simply wrong in your way of thinking, and to me it's baffling that you still try to make this point so Alliance High Elves won't be. It's pathetic and to be so obsessed about it is kinda frightening to me.

Practice WoG all the time, or don't. Make up your mind. To make me "prove" something you already now it's a waste of time and I don't get why I even go the length and link what Void Elves are.

"The void elves (or ren'dorei, for "Children of the Void" in Thalassian)[1] are one of the playable Alliance allied races in World of Warcraft, introduced at the end of Legion. Once blood elves, they succumbed to void corruption after an expedition exploring new magics went awry."

Just like the game reflects it. End of story.

You quoted wowpedia? You are aware Wowpedia is an open source wiki editable by anyone right? I mean here is what the passage said on the 18th April.
The void elves are an allied race affiliated with the Alliance.

The void elf's choice of mount is the voidstrider, a shadow-infused hawkstrider. Their chosen language is Thalassian, while they are also able to speak Common.

Now, whilst I guess it is theoretically possible that a dev was the one who made the change, it was actually someone named Rayndorn who seems to be going around tidying things up. His interpretation is of course open to debate, it is not word of god.

If I was of a mind, I could create an account, log in and change it back to what it was just over month ago. Would you then treat that statement as word of god? I don't think you would.

Word of God is something sourced from the developers or depicted in game. Not what someone edits a wowpedia article to reflect their own biases over. And to save us the bother, yes in game the initial origin story depicts a group of Blood Elves as being amongst the initial transformed group but they were a tiny group of mages and warlocks which does not explain the five other classes void elves can be, the presence of blood/high elves clearly preparing for transformation, the presence of void elf neophytes receiving tutelage from a more experienced instructor, the existence of voidstriders who have similarly be transformed by the void and the sheer number of void elves depicted in game which does not tally with the initial group. All easily accounted for if you go with the common sense rationale that void elves can turn other elves into void elves, including high elves.

Oh, and Moorgard's interview quote which I will happily place against the wowpedia quote you've used above because that is genuine word of god. I don't think Rayndorn outranks Moorgard here.

[Broflake]

Are there any other reasons why you think this is the case? The Shen'dralar and Nightborne were without Moonwells and nowhere near proximity to the Well of Eternity yet never changed from Night elves.

NOOO I LOST MY ENTIRE POST RESPONDING TO YOU!

*cries*

Dramatics aside.

For the shendralar and nightborne I have an excellent explanation.
The shendralar have a moonwell in Diremaul they could reasonably access, and given that WoW does not accurately portray geography and the fact that the Shendralar had created a network to move about, it is reasonable to say theyhad access to said moonwell if not said moonwell being a part of their home.
The nightborne, had access to the nightwell as a substitute for the well of eternity.

In terms of the high elves and their appearance, I believe it is due to how long they went without access to a powerful arcane source on top of being cut off from Cenarius which reflects their diminutive stature. The primary reason I don't find the intellect matter feasible is mostly because Blizzard is rather specific on the effects of the loss, and we have seem them bring up this specificity for the goblins and theloss of kajamite wth its subsequent restoration.

Intelligence is also rather difficult to measure, and there doesn't appear to be anything to suggest that the average night elf is anymore intelligent than the blood elves or other races for that matter. I also believe thereis a point where the blood elves mock the night elf mages for using outdated techniques in their arcane skill.
Of course, given they lost what... a foot in height, if there is a loss of intellect it may be so small as to go unnoticed until the creation of the sunwell.


Either way, I do think it is particularly interesting how the troll races were so powerfully affected to the point that as elves, they're utterly reliant on what is azeroth's bath water.

[Doffen]

You quoted wowpedia? You are aware Wowpedia is an open source wiki editable by anyone right? I mean here is what the passage said on the 20th April.

Ah yes, the "Wowiiki and wowpedia is not valid" cliche. Yeah, they write it differently from one page to the other, yes. But that's not the point. The proof is in game even. You link it from those pages yourself now and then, but of course it's not valid when it doesn't fit your narrative. And that you then proceeds to use one of them who doesn't outright say what they are it's suddenly valid :P Imagine being this disingenuous.

And yes, I linked that because they write how it is in the game, and what Void Elves are. And you know this, and I shouldn't have to link it even because that's what it says in game. And then you write an essay on that wowiiki and wowpedia isn't reliable sources, it's just ridiculous. I am speechless.

I think the game outranks Moorgards no-answer here if you want to go that way. But I am done anyways. To let myself go into this with someone like you again is my bad. You should read up on Void Elf lore btw, seems you need it.

[FlubberPuddy]

Ion or the devs can sure go back with their stance and chose to give both elves all eye color because of the forum drama, what is fair and make more sense lorewise, since elves eyes change based on the magic they use, so a mage would have blue or purple eye, regardless of the elf, completely pointless to create new eye colors and stuck in npc only options

This blue eye is also a bit green, its unlikely to be for void elves too

That's been there since the first unveiling of blood elves eye customizations, when people speculated blue eyes would be for them.

That specific option you're showing is amongst the green eyes so this eye color will probably be the closest Blood Elves get to 'blue eyes' but it's more teal green/sea green than the very frank blue that's going to void elves or the DK blood elf eyes.

Sea Green Palette

[ravenmoon]

NOOO I LOST MY ENTIRE POST RESPONDING TO YOU!

*cries*

Dramatics aside.

I sympathise, it's happened to many a prolific poster, I've made some really good posts that have be been totally lost, so demoralised by it, I think I didn't post for a while, sometimes even days.

For the shendralar and nightborne I have an excellent explanation.
The shendralar have a moonwell in Diremaul they could reasonably access, and given that WoW does not accurately portray geography and the fact that the Shendralar had created a network to move about, it is reasonable to say theyhad access to said moonwell if not said moonwell being a part of their home.
The nightborne, had access to the nightwell as a substitute for the well of eternity.

Ah, but my point is that it is the actual use of magic that further prolongs life, boosts immunities, further boosts intellect even more so than just the passive proximity or passive natural connection to the Well of Eternity. The night well is a powerful magical elixir they can do a lot more amgic with it too - id on't know if there is a minimum threshold of magic required to prolong your life indefinitely - but I do know the night elves did this before the sundering via using the Well of Eternity. From t his I deduce that the magic using night elf populations like the Shen'dralar and Nightborne could do this with the various magical sources they utilised (Immol'thar's magic siphoned and filtered through pylons in the case of the Shen'dralar and the nightwell in the case of the Shal'dorei)

In terms of the high elves and their appearance, I believe it is due to how long they went without access to a powerful arcane source on top of being cut off from Cenarius which reflects their diminutive stature. The primary reason I don't find the intellect matter feasible is mostly because Blizzard is rather specific on the effects of the loss, and we have seem them bring up this specificity for the goblins and theloss of kajamite wth its subsequent restoration.

I would think the goblin example only proves this even though it's an entirely different situation, kajamite seems like a drug - not a cosmic magic DNA altering power and the goblins are not made from it unlike the Night elves. Without kajamite they just got cravings and are less sharp. Think of kajamite like a constant intellect potion they can take to boost their functions. They don't devolve persay, although we wouldn't know, they seem to be able to constantly supply themselves with it.

And while blizzard mentions the weakening of the exile, it's never included all the symptoms in the same senstnce - I can't think why every other passive enhancement of the Well of Eternity is lostbut not intellect. The loss of the intellect boost I have never felt made the Thalassians simple, I think their intelligence just dropped to human levels or slightly above, rather than much higher (on average) that the average night elf population would have. This is ofc boosted up again passively through the the Sunwell and again furthermore by utilising the arcane magic, same with their longevitiy and stature - which is why they stand on average a 6'6.5 whereas humans are more like 5.5 to 6'. So it goes back up again to the extent that with the double enhcancment from the sunwell, the average Thalssian is more intelligecnt than the non-magic using Darnassian, but not moreso than the magic using one -

Intelligence is also rather difficult to measure, and there doesn't appear to be anything to suggest that the average night elf is anymore intelligent than the blood elves or other races for that matter. I also believe thereis a point where the blood elves mock the night elf mages for using outdated techniques in their arcane skill.
Of course, given they lost what... a foot in height, if there is a loss of intellect it may be so small as to go unnoticed until the creation of the sunwell.


Either way, I do think it is particularly interesting how the troll races were so powerfully affected to the point that as elves, they're utterly reliant on what is azeroth's bath water.

Intelligence is impossible to measure, so I just talk in averages, at the end of the day, no matter how intelligent an elf is , a human can be born with similar o, comparable intelligence anyway - I just think that an average the elves have the higher intellect, and then those who handle the arcane even more so. As all blood elves use it in some measure, they have the double boost, with mages able to stretch that even further.

The instance of the blood elf mocking the night elves for using outdated magic happens in zone Azshara, when you level a horde and do that zone. However the context the horde player doesn't have is that the Night elves they are fighting are novices completely new to magic or former highborne who'd abstained from using the arcane in line with the Kaldorei ban on it during the Long vigil period and had recently picked it up with the lift on the ban and the alliance with the Shen'dralar. Now you don't meet the Shen'dralar, you meet the new highborne, darnassiasn who've only been using the arcane for a few weeks - some for the first time since nearly 10,000 years ago, and some for the first time ever -

They are not going to be seasoned mages though, they would be using some techniques from a long time ago - what likely has happened is that the Shen'dralar have tasked them with teaching some of the newbies, and in turn teach them.. however there hasn't been much time for training. The cataclysm has just happened, and the Shen'dralar have only just rejoined with the Darnassians, and already the ones at Talendris point are off to fight - they'd be relying on a lot of knowledge from 10k years ago - making it easy for a seasoned mage at combat to exploit.

What it isn't an indication of is that the night elves are more stupid than the blood elves.

[Obelisk Kai]

Ah yes, the "Wowiiki and wowpedia is not valid" cliche. Yeah, they write it differently from one page to the other, yes. But that's not the point. The proof is in game even. You link it from those pages yourself now and then, but of course it's not valid when it doesn't fit your narrative.

And yes, I linked that because they write how it is in the game, and what Void Elves are. And you know this, and I shouldn't have to link it even because that's what it says in game. And then you write an essay on that wowiiki and wowpedia isn't reliable sources, it's just ridiculous. I am speechless.

I think the game outranks Moorgards no-answer here if you want to go that way. But I am done anyways. To let myself go into this with someone like you again is my bad. You should read up on Void Elf lore btw, seems you need it.

It's not really a cliché, it's true, wowpedia and wowwiki are great resources but they are open to abuse. Everything they say needs to be sourced or it is subject to dispute and when I link from those pages, I always ensure that what they are saying is backed up. This particular edit is the contributors opinion, but it is not word of god.

You claimed you had word of god. You had an edited wowpedia entry. That doesn't meet the standard of word of god, which is creator level commentary or something that happens in game. Moorgard's quote does meet the standard as he actually writes the game and the game itself lends credence to what he what said.

[Broflake]

snipping for space

I think that is an interesting theory. It is very well possible there is a minimum magical threshold in which immortality occurs. It may also be based on the magic being titan based as was the case with both the well of eternity and the night well (eye of aman'thul). I would posit that in order for a race, any race for that matter not just elves, to achieve said immortality requires them to have such a large amount of magic that they no longer need food or water, but also for it to be of the titan type magic.
This would be consistent with all the cases of immortality, since while Nozdormu's blessing did grant the night elves immortality, his powers over time and space were granted to him through Aman'thul himself.
So it would certainly make sense for those two requirements needing to be met to achieve immortality.

As for goblin, I am not sure if it really supplements the matter. If there was a notable loss in intellect why wouldn't it be noted? I can only theorize the reason it is not mentioned in the case of the exiled high elves is simply because it was either too small to make note of or did not occur at all. I mean...either way its neither here or there.
1 isn't that much smaller than 2.
NOw as for my example, it is not suggesting thenight elves are in anyway stupider than a blood elf, only that their intellect is equal and at the very least, too difficult to really measure given their specialities.

I do find the theory interesting, because it would help to explain Kael'thas sudden desperation. The magical addiction and weakening of his people could also mean a weaker intellect, making him more vulnerable to manipulation and not thinking things out considerably. The blood elves do appear to stabilize with the restoration of the sunwell, but whether this is intellectually based or possibly emotionally based isstill a possibility.

[Aldo Hawk]

Their new well doesn't work because Nordrassil exists. This means that elves don't need wells to have glowing eyes.

I have the theory that blue eyes on Thalassian elves aren't necessarily there because of arcane energies, but that it would just be their natural color, like those of the Zandalari.

I think this may be a possibility because I haven't found any line specifying that they have blue eyes specifically because of arcane magic, I only found something about them getting their glow diminished when the Sunwell was destroyed, which can just be a showing of energy depletion.

This might give back up as to why Ion said blue eyes don't make sense, since if it's their natural color and not because of arcane energies, they couldn't simply go back and would only keep fel tainting or get light infusion by following the light using the Sunwell.

And, by the way, has anyone noticed that almost nobody has said anything about violet eyes for Blood elves to the extent they demanded the blue eyes, because they said they should have them because of the Sunwell's arcane part? It's a showing that many people just asked for them out of spite, Kairos included of course. Violet is more representative of the arcane if you ask me, but there you have them, nothing about that, nada.

- - - Updated - - -

That's been there since the first unveiling of blood elves eye customizations, when people speculated blue eyes would be for them.

That specific option you're showing is amongst the green eyes so this eye color will probably be the closest Blood Elves get to 'blue eyes' but it's more teal green/sea green than the very frank blue that's going to void elves or the DK blood elf eyes.

Sea Green Palette
https://htmlcolors.com/palette-image/309/sea-green.png

Oh yes, I want it, teal eyes, like jade colored ones, is the color I always write my character having, I'm expecting to see if I can finally got them.

[Doffen]

You claimed you had word of god. You had an edited wowpedia entry. That doesn't meet the standard of word of god, which is creator level commentary or something that happens in game. Moorgard's quote does meet the standard as he actually writes the game and the game itself lends credence to what he what said.

Yeah, I claim I have WoG, it's in the game. I don't know if you play it? It's called World of Warcraft and it claims Void Elves are a group of former Blood Elves. Does it not tell you that story that there were once a group of Blood Elves who looked into dark magic called Void then they turned into what we know as Void Elves? I mean, I know, because I did that story.

When you stop being disingenuous and actually discuss things that are real and not try to start a discussion out of it nothing and something we already discussed 3 times, even when you know you are wrong I will gladly discuss topics with you again. You are going around with speculations.

While the game, and it's the only real source we have, tells us that Void Elves comes from a group of Blood Elves. That is WoG. And I don't believe you for a second when you say that's not WoG, you are only here to stir up a discussion. And I know you tried to be smug about it when you first responded to me today, but then I gladly take that because you are still and have always been wrong on this matter. If it changes in the future? Who knows. But we are only discussing what's now, and now Void Elves are former Blood Elves, by WoG.

[DeicideUH]

Ion or the devs can sure go back with their stance and chose to give both elves all eye color because of the forum drama, what is fair and make more sense lorewise, since elves eyes change based on the magic they use, so a mage would have blue or purple eye, regardless of the elf, completely pointless to create new eye colors and stuck in npc only options

This blue eye is also a bit green, its unlikely to be for void elves too

This teal color is blood elf-only and will be available for players, it's the most bluish one confirmed for them.

The three blue eyes for void elves are not greenish, only varying the intensity of the blue and how visible is the iris:





- - - Updated - - -

Oh yes, I want it, teal eyes, like jade colored ones, is the color I always write my character having, I'm expecting to see if I can finally got them.

Yes, the teal color will be available for blood elf players. It's the most blue color available as far as we know.

[Broflake]

This might give back up as to why Ion said blue eyes don't make sense, since if it's their natural color and not because of arcane energies, they couldn't simply go back and would only keep fel tainting or get light infusion by following the light using the Sunwell.

So...why aren't high elves gold given they're connected to the sunwell?

[Syegfryed]

That's been there since the first unveiling of blood elves eye customizations, when people speculated blue eyes would be for them.

That specific option you're showing is amongst the green eyes so this eye color will probably be the closest Blood Elves get to 'blue eyes' but it's more teal green/sea green than the very frank blue that's going to void elves or the DK blood elf eyes.

Seems pretty blue to me, and to some is enough.

And again, they could go back with their instance in this particular instance, since they did the same with the zandalari druid forms, both make sense.

This teal color is blood elf-only and will be available for players, it's the most bluish one confirmed for them.

The three blue eyes for void elves are not greenish, only varying the intensity of the blue and how visible is the iris:
.

i feel at this point people are grasping at straws, now to say "that is not technically blue1!1!!" trying to prove something

it is blue, not the blue people were expecting, but it is, and again, the eyes is tagged to playable for everyone, not just void elves.

Like i said, it only make sense to liberate all eye colors to then, maybe not golden for void elves.

- - - Updated - - -

So...why aren't high elves gold given they're connected to the sunwell?

and that is why they should retract that instance asap, all high elves are connected to the sunwell, blood and high elves alike, all of then should have the same eye color, if don't make sense to blood elves have blue eyes, no high elf of the alliance should have, because they also use the sunwell.

if the argument is "but high elves can use arcane from other means" well, so blood elves, its a dead end point.

[Kithelle]

That's funny because Vereesa (you know... The Ranger General of the Silver Covenant, not a random raid boss with no background) also says blood elves are unworthy of their heritage.

Addicts endorsing addicts...one big happy enabling family!

[bobwuzhere1224]

The Blue Eyes Void elves have listed are too bright for what I would consider appropriate for their theme.

The Blue should be darker.

[Maxilian]

To reach a compromise.

Currently void elves are purple, gothic elves. I want to play a new generation of blood/high elves trained by Alleria and Umbric. We know these elves won't pass through the same transformation the blood elves under Umbric's leadership did because all that happened what an accident.

So playing a fair skinned high elf with blue eyes but purple/cold hairs sounds like a good compromise. Blond elves would remain in the Horde.

Anyways, the new blue eyes for the void elves absolutely don't fit their voidy aesthetics. So I'm pretty confident we'll end up getting fair skinned options one day or another.

I can see this happening, but i also feel that they would still keep some part of the "void" color in the skin, like how some of you guys suggested a while ago:


though i prefer something like this, to be fair:

[DeicideUH]

i feel at this point people are grasping at straws, now to say "that is not technically blue1!1!!" trying to prove something

it is blue, not the blue people were expecting

They are not "blue", they are teal/cyan, midway between blue and green. Teal eyes for blood elves were known for a month already, far before Ion stated that there would be no blue eyes for playable blood elves.

At least they got a teal option, which is a nice mid-term between fel-corrupted and uncorrupted.



They should get fiery-orange, arcane-pink and red eyes as well, thought. And void elves should get purple and dark blue options.

[Aldo Hawk]

I think some people haven't understood that the golden eyes appear when the Thalassian elf has a strong connection with the light using the Sunwell, and High elves follow the light with the Church of the Light like Humans and Dwarves, not the Sunwell.

[bobwuzhere1224]

I think some people haven't understood that the golden eyes appear when the Thalassian elf has a strong connection with the light using the Sunwell, and High elves follow the light with the Church of the Light like Humans and Dwarves, not the Sunwell.

They are still connected to the Sunwell.

[Aldo Hawk]

They are still connected to the Sunwell.

It's clear enough as to not give enough room to understand that. It looks as if you have forced a different meaning on the phrase.