Official High Elf Discussion Megathread

[bobwuzhere1224]

It's clear enough as to not give enough room to understand that. It looks as if you have forced a different meaning on the phrase.

Golden Eyes Manifest for Light Users connected to the Sunwell quicker than those that are not dominant Light Users. Praying to a Human church doesn't suddenly nullify that.

[Aldo Hawk]

Golden Eyes Manifest for Light Users connected to the Sunwell quicker than those that are not dominant Light Users. Praying to a Human church doesn't suddenly nullify that.

By saying it manifest 'quicker' you imply that these appear regardless of following the light or not, which has not been the case as how NPCs have been presented and what Danuser explained.

Golden eyes are there because of two things: The Sunwell and light worshiping, ergo, they have to follow the light and use the light energy of the Sunwell, if they follow the light through a different way, in this case the church, then it's a different connection to the light than having a literal fountain of it.

Let's remember that the Blood Knights are those who use the Sunwell this way, and High elves are not Blood Knights.

[bobwuzhere1224]

By saying it manifest 'quicker' you imply that these appear regardless of following the light or not, which has not been the case as how NPCs have been presented and what Danuser explained.

Golden eyes are there because of two things: The Sunwell and light worshiping, ergo, they have to follow the light and use the light energy of the Sunwell, if they follow the light through a different way, in this case the church, then it's a different connection to the light than having a literal fountain of it.

Let's remember that the Blood Knights are those who use the Sunwell this way, and High elves are not Blood Knights.

They are connected to the Sunwell, that is their literal fountain of Holy Energy. Praying to a church doesn't nullify this connection.

[Aldo Hawk]

They are connected to the Sunwell, that is their literal fountain of Holy Energy. Praying to a church doesn't nullify this connection.

Blood Knights are the ones who draw the light from the Sunwell since they were the ones who changed their ways twice in the past, High elves maintain the old ways of following the light, they don't use the Sunwell for that purpose, they make usage of pure willpower as Humans and Dwarves through the church.

High elves aren't members of the Blood Knights, Blood elves are.

[bobwuzhere1224]

Blood Knights are the ones who draw the light from the Sunwell since they were the ones who changed their ways twice in the past, High elves maintain the old ways of following the light, they don't use the Sunwell for that purpose, they make usage of pure willpower as Humans and Dwarves through the church.

High elves aren't members of the Blood Knights, Blood elves are.

High Elves are powered by the Holy infused Sunwell. Those that follow the light have their Holy Energy from there. Praying to a human church doesn't override that. If anything what you should be saying is that it would boost the holy power that they get from the Sunwell. You don't need to be a Blood Knight to use Holy Power from the Sunwell. Surely you don't think Priests are Blood Knights, right?

[Aldo Hawk]

High Elves are powered by the Holy infused Sunwell. Those that follow the light have their Holy Energy from there. Praying to a human church doesn't override that. If anything what you should be saying is that it would boost the holy power that they get from the Sunwell. You don't need to be a Blood Knight to use Holy Power from the Sunwell. Surely you don't think Priests are Blood Knights, right?

Being connected to the Sunwell doesn't mean they have to necessarily get the holy energy, since they need arcane magic to feed the mana addiction.

It makes much more sense if they decide to get that energy from there, instead of it just being drawn to them all the time, honestly, and it also aligns with what Danuser explained about it.

https://twitter.com/SteveDanuser/sta...462386176?s=20

You are just assuming they all use the Sunwell's holy energies because it has it and all of them are connected to it, while on the other hand, I have provided rationale as to why they don't follow the light in the same way due to the changes the Blood elves had with their relation to the light over time, while High elves didn't.

And no, obviously the holy energy is there and them all are connected to the same well, however, these two don't follow the light using the same means, High elves have been living in Alliance territory, and there they follow the light in the church.

Blood Knights were the ones who firstly abandoned the light and later on enslaved a light-based being, and secondly started using the reignited Sunwell with the essence of such light-based being, High elves have been following the Church of the Light, drawing the light powers from willpower. Blood Knights are the ones who recovered their faith and also use the holy energies for their powers.

And also, no... Blood elf priests don't have a fancy name, and that doesn't mean they aren't intrinsically related to the Blood Knights...

[bobwuzhere1224]

Being connected to the Sunwell doesn't mean they have to necessarily get the holy energy, since they need arcane magic to feed the mana addiction.

It makes much more sense if they decide to get that energy from there, instead of it just being drawn to them all the time, honestly, and it also aligns with what Danuser explained about it.

https://twitter.com/SteveDanuser/sta...462386176?s=20

You are just assuming they all use the Sunwell's holy energies because it has it and all of them are connected to it, while on the other hand, I have provided rationale as to why they don't follow the light in the same way due to the changes the Blood elves had with their relation to the light over time, while High elves didn't.

And no, obviously the holy energy is there and them all are connected to the same well, however, these two don't follow the light using the same means, High elves have been living in Alliance territory, and there they follow the light in the church.

Blood Knights were the ones who firstly abandoned the light and later on enslaved a light-based being, and secondly started using the reignited Sunwell with the essence of such light-based being, High elves have been following the Church of the Light, drawing the light powers from willpower. Blood Knights are the ones who recovered their faith and also use the holy energies for their powers.

And also, no... Blood elf priests don't have a fancy name, and that doesn't mean they aren't intrinsically related to the Blood Knights...

There isn't a difference. High Elves are free to visit and worship the Sunwell as they please, even those in the Alliance. They are the same as Blood Elves in that the Holy Energy from it radiates to them. Worshipping the Light in a church doesn't override this change that's been happening since BC.

Blood Knights are a Paladin Order. There aren't any priests listed for them. So bringing them up is pointless to this discussion when the Sunwell provides Holy Energy to all of it's children, near and far and across time and space, praying in a church doesn't override this light for High Elves.

[Aldo Hawk]

There isn't a difference. High Elves are free to visit and worship the Sunwell as they please, even those in the Alliance. They are the same as Blood Elves in that the Holy Energy from it radiates to them. Worshipping the Light in a church doesn't override this change that's been happening since BC.

Blood Knights are a Paladin Order. There aren't any priests listed for them. So bringing them up is pointless to this discussion when the Sunwell provides Holy Energy to all of it's children, near and far and across time and space, praying in a church doesn't override this light for High Elves.

Well... You are the only one saying anything about overriding...

They have a different way as explained above, period. That's not 'overriding', that's a -different- way.

And no, I'm not entering into the pedant argument about priests, Sin'dorei light worshipers are intrinsically related to one another, that's all that has to be known about it.

Also, it has been you who 'brought up' priests and next time said it was pointless to do so, let that sink in.

I don't come here to win any argument contest, I have brought my points and you disagreed by disregarding anything I brought, too bad, I'm not playing that game.

[Eapoe]

Keep at it guys and gals. You’re about 5 years, 1000 more forum pages, a petition, and a backing by an ex Blizzard employee away from getting Blizzard to finally cave and give High Elves.

[bobwuzhere1224]

Well... You are the only one saying anything about overriding...

They have a different way as explained above, period. That's not 'overriding', that's a -different- way.

And no, I'm not entering into the pedant argument about priests, Sin'dorei light worshipers are intrinsically related to one another, that's all that has to be known about it.

Also, it has been you who 'brought up' priests and next time said it was pointless to do so, let that sink in.

I don't come here to win any argument contest, I have brought my points and you disagreed by disregarding anything I brought, too bad, I'm not playing that game.

The overriding comment was in response to your phrasing of your original statement that tried to downplay the influence the Sunwell had in Golden Eyes and High Elves, which simply isn't the case.

You kept bringing up Paladins while completely ignoring that are other people that worship the light that are not Paladins. And since Blood Knights are a Paladin Order, they don't have priests, but they are not the only Elven users that worship the light and are powered by the Sunwell. So it was pointless for you to try and use Blood Knights as a point to help your argument as Light worshipping isn't restricted to Paladins.

[Syegfryed]

They are not "blue", they are teal/cyan, midway between blue and green

in other words, they are blue, and you are still going for "technicalities", Cyan that i know, is when you mix green and blue, and you get this tone more blue-ish

Again, showing the spectrum of their eyes, and is also a shade of blue.

Teal eyes for blood elves were known for a month already, far before Ion stated that there would be no blue eyes for playable blood elves.

there is blue-eyes, just not the deep blue-eyes so far, and again, they could always go back like they did before in this statement, since make sense

They should get fiery-orange, arcane-pink and red eyes as well, thought. And void elves should get purple and dark blue options

they should also get the full blue-eyes too, because make sense.

[Aldo Hawk]

The overriding comment was in response to your phrasing of your original statement that tried to downplay the influence the Sunwell had in Golden Eyes and High Elves, which simply isn't the case.

You kept bringing up Paladins while completely ignoring that are other people that worship the light that are not Paladins. And since Blood Knights are a Paladin Order, they don't have priests, but they are not the only Elven users that worship the light and are powered by the Sunwell. So it was pointless for you to try and use Blood Knights as a point to help your argument as Light worshipping isn't restricted to Paladins.

No, I don't ignore that. Not bringing every little pebble of information is not me ignoring anything, it's me not making blog posts.

Sin'dorei and Quel'dorei have different ways to follow the light, Quel'dorei have the traditional way, Blood elves don't, they use the Sunwell for that, High elves follow the church, thing that is not related to the Sunwell.

If I mention Blood Knights it's because it's the most representative of what Blood elves do with the light.

[Syegfryed]

You kept bringing up Paladins while completely ignoring that are other people that worship the light that are not Paladins. And since Blood Knights are a Paladin Order, they don't have priests, but they are not the only Elven users that worship the light and are powered by the Sunwell. So it was pointless for you to try and use Blood Knights as a point to help your argument as Light worshipping isn't restricted to Paladins.

you don't even need to worship the sunwell or the light, blood elves and high elves are both connected to the sunwell and feed from that, a font of both arcane and holy magic, mages, warriors, rangers, anyone, all of then feed on the same source, even if they don't worship their eyes would change

its completely nonsensical try to paint that high elves would only feed on the arcane part, or the golden eyes would not show on then, either both have blue-eyes or none of then have

[bobwuzhere1224]

No, I don't ignore that. Not bringing every little pebble of information is not me ignoring anything, it's me not making blog posts.

Sin'dorei and Quel'dorei have different ways to follow the light, Quel'dorei have the traditional way, Blood elves don't, they use the Sunwell for that, High elves follow the church, thing that is not related to the Sunwell.

If I mention Blood Knights it's because it's the most representative of what Blood elves do with the light.

That still doesn't change the fact that the Sunwell is what causes Golden Eyes in High Elves and not praying in a church. You trying to downplay the significance of the Sunwell in your first statement doesn't help your argument.

- - - Updated - - -

you don't even need to worship the sunwell or the light, blood elves and high elves are both connected to the sunwell and feed from that, a font of both arcane and holy magic, mages, warriors, rangers, anyone, all of then feed on the same source, even if they don't worship their eyes would change

its completely nonsensical try to paint that high elves would only feed on the arcane part, or the golden eyes would not show on then, either both have blue-eyes or none of then have

It's an attempt to try and make it seem like High Elves are super different from Blood Elves when that just isn't the case.

[Aldo Hawk]

What doesn't help is that you impose 'intention' on me. Intention on what, changing what's written? I'm just talking in here, nobody here has the power to change what's written.

If you think I have no basis at all you will be wrong, Danuser was very clear, the Sunwell having holy energy is not making everyone get golden eyes, you have to be a light worshiper.

And those who follow the light through the Sunwell are the Blood elves. High elves however, follow the light through the ways of the church alongside their Alliance allies, so excuse me if I have doubts about the validity of points that are based on assumptions that seem to be there out of vagueness and simplicity.

[bobwuzhere1224]

What doesn't help is that you impose 'intention' on me. Intention on what, changing what's written? I'm just talking in here, nobody here has the power to change what's written.

If you think I have no basis at all you will be wrong, Danuser was very clear, the Sunwell having holy energy is not making everyone get golden eyes, you have to be a light worshiper.

And those who follow the light through the Sunwell are the Blood elves. High elves however, follow the light through the ways of the church alongside their Alliance allies, so excuse me if I have doubts about the validity of points that are based on assumptions that seem to be there out of vagueness and simplicity.

They weren't getting Golden Eyes from when the Sunwell wasn't infused with Holy Energy. They were still sporting Blue Eyes. Now that the Sunwell has been infused with Holy Energy they are developing Golden Eyes. That's the Sunwell doing, not praying at a church.

[Aldo Hawk]

They weren't getting Golden Eyes from when the Sunwell wasn't infused with Holy Energy. They were still sporting Blue Eyes. Now that the Sunwell has been infused with Holy Energy they are developing Golden Eyes. That's the Sunwell doing, not praying at a church.

Honestly, it's like you are arguing with someone else. I can't see how your answer could be directed at what I wrote...

[bobwuzhere1224]

Honestly, it's like you are arguing with someone else. I can't see how your answer could be directed at what I wrote...

Like I mentioned before your phrasing here...

I think some people haven't understood that the golden eyes appear when the Thalassian elf has a strong connection with the light using the Sunwell, and High elves follow the light with the Church of the Light like Humans and Dwarves, not the Sunwell.

Implies that you are trying to downplay the significant effect the Sunwell has on all that are connected to it. By saying what you said here, you are saying that High Elves praying at a church trigger the Golden Eyes and not the Sunwell when that simply isn't true.

High Elves using Holy Magic still had blue eyes before when the Sunwell was a font of pure Arcane energy. Now that it is a font of Holy Energy, they are now developing Golden eyes. It is because of the Sunwell that this is occurring and not cause of church praying as your original statement heavily implies.

[Obelisk Kai]

They weren't getting Golden Eyes from when the Sunwell wasn't infused with Holy Energy. They were still sporting Blue Eyes. Now that the Sunwell has been infused with Holy Energy they are developing Golden Eyes. That's the Sunwell doing, not praying at a church.

Well, all high elves developed blue eyes from an Arcane based Sunwell over time, not just Mages or Arcanists. They probably developed the glowing blue eyes first mind you, but in the end all high elves gained glowing blue eyes. The Sunwell is a constant presence, it's energies radiating across time space to feed the addiction of the thalassian elves. Now that the Sunwell is holy dominated, those most attuned to the energies it is broadcasting have begun to manifest golden eyes as the fel taint is cleansed, but the same principle which operated under an arcane sunwell operates here too. Their eyes reflect the magic they are exposed to, and right now even the high elves (whose pilgrims show they still venerate the Sunwell) are subject to that pressure as they feed on holy energies to sate their addiction.

As for why high elves don't have golden eyes yet, easily addressed. At the moment devotion to the light, whilst not a mandatory trigger for the golden eyes, is the most common one. There are canonically very, very few high elves left and most high elves are either former farstriders (hunters) or kirin tor mages. There are likely only a few priests and even less Paladins (I can only think of the high elf paladin trainer in WOTLK. There maybe one or two more but I can't recall them). High Elves, like the Blood Elves, will end up with golden eyes, but not any time soon. Sometime after wow is ended.

But the eye colour isn't the real point, it's the connection to the sunwell that matters. As all elves (with the likely exception of the void elves) are bound to the sunwell, they are all subject to the same physical changes the Sunwell provokes. We know this because the creation of the Sunwell is what stabilised their degradation from Night Elves and provided the blue eyes in the first place. Just as all elves connected to the well became high elves, so all elves connected to the well will change in the same way albeit at a different pace. And this underlines the simple truth of the matter, the exiles and the Blood Elves are the same race with the same destiny.

[Aldo Hawk]

Like I mentioned before your phrasing here...



Implies that you are trying to downplay the significant effect the Sunwell has on all that are connected to it. By saying what you said here, you are saying that High Elves praying at a church trigger the Golden Eyes and not the Sunwell when that simply isn't true.

High Elves using Holy Magic still had blue eyes before when the Sunwell was a font of pure Arcane energy. Now that it is a font of Holy Energy, they are now developing Golden eyes. It is because of the Sunwell that this is occurring and not cause of church praying as your original statement heavily implies.

It's literally as if you were answering something else...

'strong connection with the light using the Sunwell'

Can't be more clear than that.

And referring to the previous post, no Kairos, blue eyes don't make sense, accept it.