Official High Elf Discussion Megathread

[Isilrien]

..."Races" is WoW have never been 'accurate' to races IRL. Races in WoW is a very malleable description for Blizzard.

It's most likely why, although not finalized yet ofc, that the new character creation (CC) screen doesn't designate 'core race' or 'allied race' or even just 'race' at all among its choices...These "races" are now essentially appearance options. Do you want to be a Human, or an Orc, or a Kul'Tiran, or a Void Elf, or a Blood Elf? No having to tarry around over what denotes 'race' in WoW come Shadowlands.

For now, unless the CC changes.

Very good point here.

[matrix123mko]

"Races" is WoW have never been 'accurate' to races IRL. Races in WoW is a very malleable description for Blizzard.

These "races" are now essentially appearance options. Do you want to be a Human, or an Orc, or a Kul'Tiran, or a Void Elf, or a Blood Elf? No having to tarry around over what denotes 'race' in WoW come Shadowlands.

"Species" would have been been a better world for them. However, Kul Tirans are clearly just human, so this concept is obsolete.

[Lahis]

"Species" would have been been a better world for them. However, Kul Tirans are clearly just human, so this concept is obsolete.

It is just general storytelling conventions. In Fantasy we speak of races, despite how different the humanoids are from each other. In Sci-fi the usual term used for different intelligent lifeforms is species.

[FlubberPuddy]

It is just general storytelling conventions. In Fantasy we speak of races, despite how different the humanoids are from each other. In Sci-fi the usual term used for different intelligent lifeforms is species.

I agree I believe it's just following conventional storytelling. But I also think that Blizzard has acknowledged the criticisms people have thrown of some "Allied Races" that would've been better served simply as customization options (LF Draenei, HM Tauren, Dark Iron Dwarves, Mag'har Orc) etc etc which we see them doing now with increased customizations (Wildhammer Dwarves, Sand Trolls/Ice Trolls/Dark Trolls) which gives those earlier criticisms more weight.

So how do you resolve the problem? Easy, just get rid of the labels lol

Also allows them to open up more character options by simply placing symbols there and whatever groups follow from that. For instance, if they now put a character symbol for High Elves, and the label 'High Elves' when one hovers over the option, then a player knows 'oh ok I'm choosing to play as a High Elf'.

It also works with what Ornyx said a while ago now, when you choose a 'race' you're actually choosing to play a sub-faction of that race rather than its entirety.

The new character creation screen actually serves that purpose now by stepping away from labels of 'core race'/'allied race'/'race'.

[Frenchvince]

The new character creation screen actually serves that purpose now by stepping away from labels of 'core race'/'allied race'/'race'.

They also removed the distinction of "neutral race" for pandaren.

[Lahis]

They also removed the distinction of "neutral race" for pandaren.

Because of Exile's Reach. Can't start as neutral Pandaren on that faction specific zone. Dunno how it affects the normal Pandaren starting zone. I would test if I was a prolific streamer.

[Ardenaso]

Another question: why didn't the Argent Crusade High Elves even bother to cleanse Ghostlands or make an initiative there? As of Cataclysm the Argent Crusade has practically removed the Scourge in Eastweald sans Stratholme

[Frenchvince]

Because of Exile's Reach. Can't start as neutral Pandaren on that faction specific zone. Dunno how it affects the normal Pandaren starting zone. I would test if I was a prolific streamer.

It would indeed be interesting to see if the final choice of the starting area for pandarens is removed, because we will directly choose his faction in character creation.

[FlubberPuddy]

I watched the wowhead vodcast regarding last weeks' datamining and Perculia is suggesting that these may in fact be for Blood Elf players but may not be the exact shade of blue high elves are getting. I have to disagree with that interpretation. Were Blood Elves to get these options, Blood Elves would in fact have blue eyes. I don't think anyone is going to be obtuse enough to start arguing over shadesof blue, or at least I would hope not. Still, that's a hypothetical for the moment.

I think the point Perculia was making is that High Elves have those non-magical eyes.





Which are very different from the datamined blue eye options currently.

Regardless, I'm glad she put it out there that traditionally the High Elves are with the Alliance. She also talks about how in the same vein that Wildhammer is available with Bronzebeards to show you're a different part of the dwarven clans, so too shouldn't High Elf options be available to Void Elves where there are High Elf NPCs among them.

Perc also suggests they should've had WoD style blogs where they preview what a race is going to get before the dataminings started happening, and also that Blizzard knows it's a controversial topic which is something that could be quickly cleared up by explaining it either way (either those datamines were incorrectly flagged or they did decide to change their decision about blood elves getting blue eyes).

I agree with those statements from Perc and I understand what she means by the shade. Because it's very clear now that Blood Elves will always have glowy eyes and never non-glowy eyes, which is nice because it's another point of differentiation between Blood Elves and High Elves.

[matrix123mko]

It is just general storytelling conventions. In Fantasy we speak of races, despite how different the humanoids are from each other. In Sci-fi the usual term used for different intelligent lifeforms is species.

Yes. Only Pratchett uses term "species" because he wanted to invent "specieism" as a term for relationship between trolls and dwarves.

[Obelisk Kai]

I think the point Perculia was making is that High Elves have those non-magical eyes.





Which are very different from the datamined blue eye options currently.

Regardless, I'm glad she put it out there that traditionally the High Elves are with the Alliance. She also talks about how in the same vein that Wildhammer is available with Bronzebeards to show you're a different part of the dwarven clans, so too shouldn't High Elf options be available to Void Elves where there are High Elf NPCs among them.

Perc also suggests they should've had WoD style blogs where they preview what a race is going to get before the dataminings started happening, and also that Blizzard knows it's a controversial topic which is something that could be quickly cleared up by explaining it either way (either those datamines were incorrectly flagged or they did decide to change their decision about blood elves getting blue eyes).

I agree with those statements from Perc and I understand what she means by the shade. Because it's very clear now that Blood Elves will always have glowy eyes and never non-glowy eyes, which is nice because it's another point of differentiation between Blood Elves and High Elves.

So the fallback is, in the unlikely event they've changed their minds on Blood Elves getting blue eyes, that Alliance high elves have non glowy blue eyes and Horde Blood Elves have blue eyes?

How does that square with your attempt to have high elves playable using Void Elves as a vector though? Leaving aside it's a contradiction, as a void elf will always be a void elf if that is what you select...leaving aside that the expressed stance on new customisations strongly appears to be that they shouldn't violate the lore...how do you square the fact that a Void Elf with fair skin tones is going to have glowy eyes? IF you are arguing here high elves shouldn't have glowing eyes, then IF Void Elves get fair skin tones, how will you be able to argue that they are really high elves if you believe high elves have non glowy eyes?

Personally I don't actually believe that. Exile eyes are a mess, with different approaches used over the years from glowing blue eyes, to ordinary blue eyes to the death knight type eyes sported by the high elf wayfarers and that's just in game, with the comic depictions being all over the place also. Hopefully a standardised approach can be found after this customisation pass is done. The fundamental core of the high elf race is their addiction to magic, it is what led them into exile and into becoming a distinct race from the Night Elves. Their eyes reflect the magic they consume, and the exiles spent thousands of years feeding on the sunwell just like everyone else in Quel'thalas.

As for your other points...wildhammer/bronzebeard are not comparable to void elves/high elves, as the former pair are biologically identical whereas the later pair are not due to void elves being transformed by an infusion of void energy. Also, from an out of game perspective, void elves were made to look different for a reason, it is extremely unlikely Blizzard is going to obliterate the big difference between blood/high elves and void elves.

Finally, it's not 'another point of differentiation'. The differing eye colours were cited by Ion in the 2018 rejection as one of the minute differences between Blood Elves and the exiles that ultimately didn't compromise the fact that Blood Elves are the playable traditional style high elves of the game. The other one was their different relationship with magic in the years the sunwell was down. So it's not 'another point of differentiation'. It's the sole one worth acknowledging, and at the end of the day, an eye colour is just an eye colour.

[Frenchvince]

already wait for the high elf NPCs to be served before, we will see after for the players.

[Isilrien]

So the fallback is, in the unlikely event they've changed their minds on Blood Elves getting blue eyes, that Alliance high elves have non glowy blue eyes and Horde Blood Elves have blue eyes?...

Those eyes shown are glowing. Their pupils are not black. Granted, they are not glowing very strongly, but those are not "non-glowy blue eyes."

[FlubberPuddy]

Snip

I think you're thinking that there's only one way the High Elf request can be served, when there's potential for multiple ways for it to be handled. Which is what I think I and others are pointing out, even Perculia mentions that perhaps the differentiation between glowy and non-glowy can allow for High Elves as an Allied Race for instance.

It didn't also stop her from suggesting that maybe they'll handle it like WH and add options into Void Elves. Showing that others also see multiple ways in which the request can potentially be handled.

The other main thing is that it's very clear by now what constitutes as 'High Elves' in regards to the request. Even Perc mentions BE getting those datamined eyes still doesn't mean you can RP as a High Elf, and I can't remember now but I think Annie agrees on that (Annie herself not as invested as Perc may be).

So it's back to what I said before Ion confirmed blue eyes weren't coming: People will continue to ask for High Elves regardless of whether blue eyes come to Blood Elves.

Because majority of player base understands when people make the High Elf request they're asking for those currently present elves within the Alliance and not simply looking to play Horde Blood Elves with a blue eye option.

[Yarathir]

Why's WoWhead so eager to bait with the blue eye Blood Elf thing?

Not even a High Elf fan, but it's kind of annoying.

[bobwuzhere1224]

Why's WoWhead so eager to bait with the blue eye Blood Elf thing?

Not even a High Elf fan, but it's kind of annoying.

To be as clickbaity as possible, even though they should know ppl would click anyways.

[Ricirich]

Hi, anyone else has the feeling that races without pupils and irises in their eyes feel like without expression. For example, elves.

I don't know if it's against the lore, but adding at least pupils in their eyes would make these races much more "humanoid" and more expressive/emotive.

[FlubberPuddy]

Why's WoWhead so eager to bait with the blue eye Blood Elf thing?
Not even a High Elf fan, but it's kind of annoying.

It’s simply easy extra traffic. You’ll often notice anything related to the High Elf topic gets a lot of comments, whether it’s on wowhead, YouTube, the official forums, or even here.

One thing I’ve noticed is there’s lots of people on the internet have a tendency to want to tell others “how wrong they are” about something.

[Obelisk Kai]

I think you're thinking that there's only one way the High Elf request can be served, when there's potential for multiple ways for it to be handled. Which is what I think I and others are pointing out, even Perculia mentions that perhaps the differentiation between glowy and non-glowy can allow for High Elves as an Allied Race for instance.

It didn't also stop her from suggesting that maybe they'll handle it like WH and add options into Void Elves. Showing that others also see multiple ways in which the request can potentially be handled.

The other main thing is that it's very clear by now what constitutes as 'High Elves' in regards to the request. Even Perc mentions BE getting those datamined eyes still doesn't mean you can RP as a High Elf, and I can't remember now but I think Annie agrees on that (Annie herself not as invested as Perc may be).

So it's back to what I said before Ion confirmed blue eyes weren't coming: People will continue to ask for High Elves regardless of whether blue eyes come to Blood Elves.

Because majority of player base understands when people make the High Elf request they're asking for those currently present elves within the Alliance and not simply looking to play Horde Blood Elves with a blue eye option.

There are not multiple ways this request can be actioned. There are two. The first, call it the 'real' option, is a standalone allied race with unique racials. That was ruled out in 2018 on the grounds that Blood Elves are high elves, and offering that group to the Alliance undermines faction diversity. That rationale still stands.

The second way, call it the 'ersatz' path, is normal skin tones on Void Elves. Of course that is not going to be a high elf, that is still a Void Elf with glowing eyes and the void themed racials. For many it will probably enough, as the argument that it's about the lore rather than the skin tones has never really held water given the ongoing campaign for those skin tones for void elves, even showing up in the admittedly well done mock ups posted by wowhead this morning. This way however is also likely blocked off with both Moorgard and Ion's comments regarding roleplaying and blue eyes respectively meaning that whilst you will have the maximum freedom to roleplay what you want, you won't have absolute freedom to pretend to be what you cannot. Void Elves won't have normal skin tones. Highmountain won't get cow horns. Mag'har won't get green skin tones. Dark Irons won't get normal skin tones. It's not as if Void Elves are going to be singled out by not getting an option that negates the very rationale underpinning their existence.

If you want to roleplay as 'that particular group', you can do so as a Void Elf who was an exile. That path is open to anyone who wishes to travel down it. It simply means accepting you are an actual Void Elf and not a high elf who, for some reason, has void themed powers, emotes and eye colours.

As for 'the majority of the player base', again you call out to the silent majority, appropriating their voices to bolster your own. I can do that too, but I reckon I have a better stab at vocalising their opinion. The majority of the player base doesn't care about this.

[Gaidax]

Hi, anyone else has the feeling that races without pupils and irises in their eyes feel like without expression. For example, elves.

I don't know if it's against the lore, but adding at least pupils in their eyes would make these races much more "humanoid" and more expressive/emotive.

Shadowlands adds an option for this for all glowing eye races.