1. #17881
    Bloodsail Admiral Isilrien's Avatar
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    I find expression comes through the face and body since the animation is decent, not the eyes, so it doesn't bother me for any race but Zandalari. They always look upset to me.

  2. #17882
    You'll notice most (all?) of the allied races don't really have any idle animations outside of just standing there. Talking little things like dwarves looking around, humans sighing, trolls stretching out, worgens sniffing etc. The allied races all just kind of stand there and stare blankly into the abyss. I think this is a part of the reason they all look so robotic and dead inside.

  3. #17883
    Quote Originally Posted by Geisl View Post
    It’s simply easy extra traffic. You’ll often notice anything related to the High Elf topic gets a lot of comments, whether it’s on wowhead, YouTube, the official forums, or even here.

    One thing I’ve noticed is there’s lots of people on the internet have a tendency to want to tell others “how wrong they are” about something.
    Nah, not like that. I don't even begrudge WoWhead for adding it into the preview.

    What I'm referring to is them on stream going "So blue eyes are going to be for Blood Elf players. Nice." And then posting about how they're gonna enjoy making their dark-skinned High Elf Paladin in Shadowlands. You know, despite it only being a few weeks ago since Ion said it's not a thing intended for players.

  4. #17884
    I think Sylvanas looks like shit with those normal eyes, so no thanks. I'll stick to my glowing eyes. Looks more magical and fitting for an immortal race or at least a long-lived race, anyway.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Zylos View Post
    You'll notice most (all?) of the allied races don't really have any idle animations outside of just standing there. Talking little things like dwarves looking around, humans sighing, trolls stretching out, worgens sniffing etc. The allied races all just kind of stand there and stare blankly into the abyss. I think this is a part of the reason they all look so robotic and dead inside.
    Mechagnomes swivel around and Zandalari Trolls (males) crack their necks.

    Can't recall the rest.

  5. #17885
    Quote Originally Posted by Zylos View Post
    You'll notice most (all?) of the allied races don't really have any idle animations outside of just standing there. Talking little things like dwarves looking around, humans sighing, trolls stretching out, worgens sniffing etc. The allied races all just kind of stand there and stare blankly into the abyss. I think this is a part of the reason they all look so robotic and dead inside.
    They definitely do have idle animations.

  6. #17886
    Quote Originally Posted by Yarathir View Post
    I think Sylvanas looks like shit with those normal eyes, so no thanks. I'll stick to my glowing eyes. Looks more magical and fitting for an immortal race or at least a long-lived race, anyway.

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    Mechagnomes swivel around and Zandalari Trolls (males) crack their necks.

    Can't recall the rest.
    I completely agree. Giving Sylvanas regular eye just ruined her appearance. So looked a lot better with her red elf eyes.
    Garrosh was right.

  7. #17887
    I am Murloc! Geisl's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Obelisk Kai View Post
    There are not multiple ways this request can be actioned. There are two. The first, call it the 'real' option, is a standalone allied race with unique racials. That was ruled out in 2018 on the grounds that Blood Elves are high elves, and offering that group to the Alliance undermines faction diversity. That rationale still stands.
    I don't think you understand what Ion actually 'ruled out' in April 2018. It was that for BFA, no High Elves as an Allied Race. Hence he ended with "Anything's possible in the future, but no plans in the near term for High Elves as an Allied Race."

    This was elaborated during Blizzcon 2018 where during a fanmeet on the showfloor Ion told a High Elf fan, "just because they're not in bfa doesn't mean they won't be in WoW ever".

    Which supports what I've said earlier, Ion including the desire for something to be more different during a faction conflict expansion (aka BFA). Same reasoning for why they went with Dark Iron Dwarves over Wildhammer during BFA.

    A "ruled out" looks like when Ion said he can confirm that blue eyes on blood elves are not happening as that doesn't make sense for how they've evolved. That's what ruling out looks like.
    Quote Originally Posted by Obelisk Kai View Post
    The second way, call it the 'ersatz' path, is normal skin tones on Void Elves.
    Again, an option in which Afrasiabi in Blizzcon 2018 stated "is possible, don't give up hope, just be respectful about it" the last bit highlighting the forum drama back then.

    You seem to have trouble understanding what a proper ruling out is and you seem to have again convinced yourself in your mind that certain decisions have been made and set.

    You did it with blue eyes on blood elves before, I wouldn't start so soon again on that path if I were you.

    Nothing about High Elves whether as a stand-alone or as Void Elf customizations has been "ruled out". If anything, all the statements have left the possibilities open.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Monster Hunter View Post
    yea its a good topic for generating outrage and outrage sell's. both the pro and anti high elf side are passionate and vocal which whilst it makes for any sort of resolution impossible, and as such there wont be any real shift on blizzard stance, it does make for alot of traffic and entertainment.
    "Any sort of resolution impossible" untrue. Blizzard will just have to decide which way they'd like to go. Do they want to grant both sides blue eyes elves, or do they want to grant Alliance their long-time request.

    We've already seen Blizzard aren't afraid of releasing things that makes one side unhappy -> Mechagnomes and Vulpera AR pairing. Giving Horde Nightborne when both sides wanted it and them knowing whoever got it would see it as a "big get".

    So it's very likely they'll deal with the High Elf request in a similar fashion. One thing's for sure though, they're not gonna leave it on the backburner forever.

    Why? Because like how people kept complaining about Pathfinder for old expansions, and AR having reps attached etc, they've finally dealt with those complaints after appearing to not answer it for so long.

    And the character creation overhaul is helping slightly different looking races like Wildhammer (and in a similar vein for High Elves) to be added as well with the focus on subtler customization options while also giving more breadth of options.

    Of course one is free to think they'll do nothing. But that they acknowledged it in this year's April Fools, and seeing as the request isn't going to go away, seems unlikely they'll leave it alone. You don't acknowledge something at all if you want it to go away.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Yarathir View Post
    Nah, not like that. I don't even begrudge WoWhead for adding it into the preview.

    What I'm referring to is them on stream going "So blue eyes are going to be for Blood Elf players. Nice." And then posting about how they're gonna enjoy making their dark-skinned High Elf Paladin in Shadowlands. You know, despite it only being a few weeks ago since Ion said it's not a thing intended for players.
    If you're referring to Stiven, I believe he's just annoyed with all the "omg why are you putting blue eyes on them when it was said they're not coming, stop aggravating us!!" commenters, and I feel he's right in doing that. Some people are way too sensitive. The crowd that wanted the blue eyes on blood elves just to spite High Elf fans are now getting upset at seeing those options after Ion confirmed they're not coming.

    It's like when people say "omfg I just wish they'd kill all High Elves in the game so people stop talking about it". Shows a level of extreme sensitivity and lack of self-control when someone wants something like that when it's pretty easy to avoid topics about it on various forums.

    Sometimes Wowhead speculates on stuff I find dumb, or people on forums do, I just don't enter into those conversations. So I think Stiven is doing that out of spite in that same vein. You can see on his Twitter he got annoyed by the comments.

  8. #17888
    Quote Originally Posted by Yarathir View Post
    Nah, not like that. I don't even begrudge WoWhead for adding it into the preview.

    What I'm referring to is them on stream going "So blue eyes are going to be for Blood Elf players. Nice." And then posting about how they're gonna enjoy making their dark-skinned High Elf Paladin in Shadowlands. You know, despite it only being a few weeks ago since Ion said it's not a thing intended for players.
    Because despite what Ion said the files are showing differently.
    https://twitter.com/Stiven_SRB/statu...99691832942592
    "I have read the user comments on the news post regarding Blood Elf character customization. And noticed that many users have complained about us using blue eyes, and some even saying we have a bug on our end. Here is the proof in the database that those blue eyes are for players!"

    Some of the helfers are upset seeing the possibility still existing that Blood Elves might just get blue eye option, they're not happy WoWhead would even have a pic suggesting such a horrible thing!
    Last edited by Starla; 2020-05-27 at 03:39 PM.
    Blood Elves are High Elves!

  9. #17889
    Quote Originally Posted by Starla View Post
    Because despite what Ion said the files are showing differently.
    https://twitter.com/Stiven_SRB/statu...99691832942592
    "I have read the user comments on the news post regarding Blood Elf character customization. And noticed that many users have complained about us using blue eyes, and some even saying we have a bug on our end. Here is the proof in the database that those blue eyes are for players!"

    Some of the helfers are upset seeing the possibility still existing that Blood Elves might just get blue eye option, they're not happy WoWhead would even have a pic suggesting such a horrible thing!
    Blue eyes are in the files for the blood elves and the void elves but since the last alpha build, these 2 races are not available, they even disappeared from the character creation.

    People ignite for nothing because everything is still subject to change and nothing is yet final.
    Last edited by Frenchvince; 2020-05-27 at 04:37 PM.

  10. #17890
    Quote Originally Posted by Starla View Post
    Because despite what Ion said the files are showing differently.
    https://twitter.com/Stiven_SRB/statu...99691832942592
    "I have read the user comments on the news post regarding Blood Elf character customization. And noticed that many users have complained about us using blue eyes, and some even saying we have a bug on our end. Here is the proof in the database that those blue eyes are for players!"

    Some of the helfers are upset seeing the possibility still existing that Blood Elves might just get blue eye option, they're not happy WoWhead would even have a pic suggesting such a horrible thing!
    I am aware. But it's still called jumping the gun, and WoWhead, and Stiven in particular, know that. Yet they're still smugly going "So this is going to happen."

    And please read my reply before you respond to it.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Geisl View Post
    If you're referring to Stiven, I believe he's just annoyed with all the "omg why are you putting blue eyes on them when it was said they're not coming, stop aggravating us!!" commenters, and I feel he's right in doing that. Some people are way too sensitive. The crowd that wanted the blue eyes on blood elves just to spite High Elf fans are now getting upset at seeing those options after Ion confirmed they're not coming.

    It's like when people say "omfg I just wish they'd kill all High Elves in the game so people stop talking about it". Shows a level of extreme sensitivity and lack of self-control when someone wants something like that when it's pretty easy to avoid topics about it on various forums.

    Sometimes Wowhead speculates on stuff I find dumb, or people on forums do, I just don't enter into those conversations. So I think Stiven is doing that out of spite in that same vein. You can see on his Twitter he got annoyed by the comments.
    Difference is 1. Stiven is supposed to be somewhat professional and it just comes off as petulant, as much so as the people who he's desiring to get back at.

    2. Stiven pretty much was the one who started pushing it and now he's complaining that he's getting pushback and digging his heels in.

    You can say what you want, but with something like this, where there's an interview not even a few weeks old where Ion explicitly said "this is not intended to be a player option," it serves everyone best to wait for the ingame character creation screen to show it as either being present or absent before making a judgment.

    With this, Stiven has very knowingly just fueled shitposting wars, because just as much as High Elf fans will wage a war over blue eyes, so will Blood Elf fans who just want to spite the Alliance/High Elf fans.

  11. #17891
    Quote Originally Posted by Deathrange View Post
    I completely agree. Giving Sylvanas regular eye just ruined her appearance. So looked a lot better with her red elf eyes.
    Yup. Making her look at all like her CGI model (cosplaying mom who wears elf ears and doesn't want to drop her goth phase since high school) was a mistake in my eyes. Her Legion model is probably the best.

  12. #17892
    I did read your post, that's why I responded to it.
    Stiven did very well. I think your opinion of his reaction is off the mark.

    It's fascinating that some people can't imagine helfers being spiteful towards Blood Elf fans who want blue eyes, as if it's only a one way street.
    Blood Elves are High Elves!

  13. #17893
    Quote Originally Posted by Starla View Post
    I did read your post, that's why I responded to it.
    Stiven did very well. I think your opinion of his reaction is off the mark.
    You didn't. You're talking about a knee-jerk reaction to the pictures, while my post very clearly states "I really can't begrudge them for their article pictures."
    And Stiven did a good job by fueling flames?

  14. #17894
    Pandaren Monk Villager720's Avatar
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    While seeing where an iris moves/tracks does contribute to the expressiveness of faces, it is only one small aspect of the whole.
    Eye lids narrowing/widening, mouth/nose movements, brow furrows are all very successful at communicating most expressions sans eye movement. Plus, with the elves in WoW, at least of the Thalassian variety, their ears are even emotive which further adds to their capacity to express feelings.

  15. #17895
    I am Murloc! Geisl's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Yarathir View Post
    Difference is 1. Stiven is supposed to be somewhat professional and it just comes off as petulant, as much so as the people who he's desiring to get back at.

    2. Stiven pretty much was the one who started pushing it and now he's complaining that he's getting pushback and digging his heels in.

    You can say what you want, but with something like this, where there's an interview not even a few weeks old where Ion explicitly said "this is not intended to be a player option," it serves everyone best to wait for the ingame character creation screen to show it as either being present or absent before making a judgment.

    With this, Stiven has very knowingly just fueled shitposting wars, because just as much as High Elf fans will wage a war over blue eyes, so will Blood Elf fans who just want to spite the Alliance/High Elf fans.
    I agree. Though I think maybe the reason Stiven doesn't care to be somewhat professional about it is probably because Wowhead is doing well and not reliant on investors that would want/require that level of professionalism he doesn't seem to care to show.

    Wholeheartedly agree with your last statement. This is why I've said just give blood elves blue eyes and be done with that. So those BE fans who simply want to spite Alliance/High Elf fans can finally stfu as they'll have no reason to complain about 'not getting customization due to High Elves'.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Yarathir View Post
    You didn't. You're talking about a knee-jerk reaction to the pictures, while my post very clearly states "I really can't begrudge them for their article pictures."
    And Stiven did a good job by fueling flames?
    She's just happy there's perhaps a 'real chance' blue eyes comes to blood elves so will support whatever endeavor reaches that goal.

  16. #17896
    Quote Originally Posted by Geisl View Post
    I agree. Though I think maybe the reason Stiven doesn't care to be somewhat professional about it is probably because Wowhead is doing well and not reliant on investors that would want/require that level of professionalism he doesn't seem to care to show.

    Wholeheartedly agree with your last statement. This is why I've said just give blood elves blue eyes and be done with that. So those BE fans who simply want to spite Alliance/High Elf fans can finally stfu as they'll have no reason to complain about 'not getting customization due to High Elves'.
    I'd like for the discussion to be over altogether. Preferably without wasting a race/allied race slot on High Elves, so I would prefer blue eyes for Blood Elves or High Elf skins for Void Elves. The baiting is a little tiresome, though. Especially from the groups that claim to be above it.

    I get your point on the professionalism, though. But I still think he's being a little disingenuous, playing victim while smugly fueling the flames.
    Quote Originally Posted by Geisl View Post
    She's just happy there's perhaps a 'real chance' blue eyes comes to blood elves so will support whatever endeavor reaches that goal.
    Figures.

  17. #17897
    Quote Originally Posted by Zylos View Post
    You'll notice most (all?) of the allied races don't really have any idle animations outside of just standing there. Talking little things like dwarves looking around, humans sighing, trolls stretching out, worgens sniffing etc. The allied races all just kind of stand there and stare blankly into the abyss. I think this is a part of the reason they all look so robotic and dead inside.
    Thankfully the ones that are basically old-race reskins use their progenitor's animations. Unfortunately that kind of favors Alliance, with every allied race except Kul Tiran using original race idle animations (and my DK is a Void Elf so I definitely see that female Blood Elf bored-and-shifting-weight-from-foot-to-foot idle animation a lot - which I know well from years and years as Horde). Only Highmountain share this for Horde, because the slightly different Mag'har stance means the animations wouldn't loop properly, and so they don't have them.

    OT: I will say that the Talador-end cinematic with WoD - the big fight on the Horde flagship with Blackhand against Yrel and Maraad - definitely showed some really good emotional depth even with the blank blue eyes Draenei have.
    Cheerful lack of self-preservation

  18. #17898
    Quote Originally Posted by Starla View Post
    I did read your post, that's why I responded to it.
    Stiven did very well. I think your opinion of his reaction is off the mark.

    It's fascinating that some people can't imagine helfers being spiteful towards Blood Elf fans who want blue eyes, as if it's only a one way street.
    It is a one way street because blue eyes belong to alliance high elves. Blood elves are known to have green and gold eyes, you are literally supporting stealing an alliance feature while simultaneously being a contrarian to people who just want to play an race that's already part of the alliance.

    It's fascinating seeing antis act like their position is valid,when you're literally advocating to deny the alliance a race that's been part of their faction for years, AND switching their eyes to a horde race (WTF?), and you try to cover that spite by claiming "it's just your opinion and it's valid". So yeah, I'd be pretty upset for the high elf fans too if a feature exclusive to high elves was shifted to blood elves.

    It's like double spite on your end, you're much better off spamming your cat emojis and scolding "helfers lul" on the official forums.

  19. #17899
    Honestly, I'm fairly sure golden eyes are meant to be the closest to blue eyes for blood elves.

    They are the new purified/Sunwell-tied eye colors now that the light has been introduced to it. Blood Elves should be going from green to gold, not from green back to blue for this reason.

  20. #17900
    Legendary! Obelisk Kai's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Yarathir View Post
    I'd like for the discussion to be over altogether. Preferably without wasting a race/allied race slot on High Elves, so I would prefer blue eyes for Blood Elves or High Elf skins for Void Elves.
    Ironically the solution is shaping up to be the converse. No blue eyes for Blood Elves (until proven otherwise) and, on the same principle Blood Elves didn't get blue eyes, no normal skin tones for Void Elves. Void Elves get the blue eyes. Blood Elves keep the normal skin tones. Nobody gets the ideal.

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