Official High Elf Discussion Megathread

[MyWholeLifeIsThunder]

The Forsaken are weird all over the place. I mean, there are places in game where their dialogue implies that Forsaken is their species, not just their identity, which makes me wonder how much that quest writer knew the lore (or even the concept of undeath in the first place).

Forsaken are human because at launch all the races were a single race, and that particular race were the citizens of Lordaeron killed during the first campaign of Warcraft III. As customization and race options expand, it does certainly stand out more that the elves (not just Dark Rangers) massacred in Quel'thalas aren't also an option, because Sylvanas certainly would have brought them under her banner as well. Then again, that's sort of weird in general, because we never see them, playable or not. Presumably some of the ghouls and skeletons in the Dead Scar used to be elves, but none of them look it.

Yeh, though I'd say that's more model limitations, cause again, it is pretty likely a lot of forsaken are elves in lore. I think Dark Rangers stand out because they had to be noticeably elven, and they might be less rotten because of the specific magics that make them.

It also bugs me that Forsaken can't be paladins. I know there have been various lore justifications for it over the years, but look at it this way:

Four of the seven human kingdoms are explicitly playable (Stormwind-Human Gilneas-Worgen Kul Tiras-Kul Tiran Lordaeron-Forsaken). Only one of them can play paladin, but two can play druid. I think that dilutes the lore and characterization of the races (and classes) more than a quick excuse for Forsaken paladins does.

While I support more paladins overall, the fact that paladins are just tied to a strong cultural worship of the light is what makes the unplayable in most cases. And Forsaken are definitely not light worshipers.

So either they have to make the paladin archetype about more than light (Void Paladins would allow for Undead and Void Elf paladins) or, give the Forsaken a strong light worship aspect... which with Calia, is actually feasible? Not just as one offs, but as a cultural movement -specially since they lost their god-queen and their faith is kinda shattered-

[Friendlyimmolation]

I will never accept the walking corpses of my friends in quelthalas! give long ears to the forsaken model who wants to play undead fantasy who plays with the race of the undead
like this
[IMG]https://i.imgur.com/FdLC6C1.jpg[IMG]
[IMG]https://media.mmo-champion.com/images/news/2013/december/sr08.jpg[IMG]

It's like there is a drunk blood elf living under a bridge, crying about undead elves but at the same time wanting the void elves to rejoin them in Quel'thalas, What?

- - - Updated - - -

If you're thinking of it as just extra void elf stuff, then I could see it as greedy. However, this is being done to provide high elves to alliance players. Currently we don't have enough options to do that properly. Players are just asking for the same thing they've always been asking for. Give us high elves. Regular hair and hair colors is all we ask. I mean, it could be human hairdos and hair colors for all I care.

No, they're looking it as "please give us everything Blood elves have and more because I want to have my cake and eat to it too." That's being greedy.

[Jokubas]

This a lot! honestly a system like this could be used to merge AR and custmization.

-Groupings of features based on origins. (Xenedar, Stormwind, Aerie Peak, Dalaran)

-You get a specific tooltip tag based on that grouping (Lightforged Draenei, Stormwind Human, Wildhammer Dwarf, Dalarani Elf, etc)

-Your racials are shared by your race (draenei,human,dwarf,elf) but you get an active and a passive specific to your origin.

Yeah, you could definitely do a lot with it.

I still feel like the new customization system is partially happening as a result of Allied Races being a failed experiment. Ostensibly, they were a way for us to get more races more often at the cost of them being simpler, and with many of them filling the "sub-race" category that had been requested for so long.

However, because Blizzard chose to make them technically separate races, they felt compelled to go the whole distance. This meant things like new voices, new racials, sometimes new animations, heritage armor, and perhaps most importantly, new druid forms. In the end, I wouldn't be surprised if Blizzard ended up putting more work into the new races of Battle for Azeroth than any expansion before it.

Not only did that sort of defeat the purpose, but it also didn't really go over so well. It certainly felt like the Allied Races launched with more controversy than excitement, between race choices, faction choices, and unlock requirements.

Just look at how much more, and more universal, excitement the customization in Shadowlands seems to be getting, and so much of it is just tattoos and eye colors. All the work that went into Allied Races really just doesn't seem worth it by comparison.

What I'm saying is, I think having heritage be decided by words instead of elaborate gameplay features is better for us and them, but it would also give them something to expand on. Your idea of only a couple of racials isn't anywhere near as much work, and it's something they could add to if they had the time, without denying the option in the meantime.

I mean, I'd certainly take High Elves without any racials or heritage armor at the moment, so as long as it meant I could be called a High Elf and not worry about leaking Void.

[Syegfryed]

Don't worry, Horde will get San'layn allied race later in Shadowlands, when the Maw's forces invade Azeroth in the later patches and the redeemed Kael'thas creates a new elite cadre of San'layn with Ven'thyr magic.


And then the Alliance gets something underwhelming to compensate.

These will be the two allied races of Shadowlands: San'layn and... Some'thing.

the horde don't want or need another freaking elf, if anything they make venthyr playable a superior in every way race, at least with HE allied race dead people can't just shove the vampire elf with the pack trying to make "even" that both factions get even more elves

[MyWholeLifeIsThunder]

the horde don't want or need another freaking elf, if anything they make venthyr playable a superior in every way race, at least with HE allied race dead people can't just shove the vampire elf with the pack trying to make "even" that both factions get even more elves

Pardon, Speaker of the Horde.


But FFS man, you only speak for yourself and yourself alone.

[Syegfryed]

Pardon, [B]Speaker of the Horde.

they indeed call me that in zandalar

But FFS man, you only speak for yourself and yourself alone.

i was talking more about lore thing, but overall vampire elf is a minor fanbase trying to be loud like the high elf and only had the minimum support with their help because the "both factions get an elf race" caravan.

Lore-wise make shit sense for a race of evil vampire join a faction like the horde, their interaction in BFa show how fucked up they were and and how the horde, as a people, would not want then, is like wanting more sylvanas minions, when they just get rid of her and then

[MyWholeLifeIsThunder]

i was talking more about lore thing, but overall vampire elf is a minor fanbase trying to be loud like the high elf and only had the minimum support with their help because the "both factions get an elf race" caravan.

Lore-wise make shit sense for a race of evil vampire join a faction like the horde, their interaction in BFa show how fucked up they were and and how the horde, as a people, would not want then, is like wanting more sylvanas minions, when they just get rid of her and then

Well alliance got Void Elves and we all know how much sense that made. So all bets are indeed off.

[Traycor]

No, they're looking it as "please give us everything Blood elves have and more because I want to have my cake and eat to it too." That's being greedy.

So you think that wanting to play high elves is a fundamentally greedy request? You realize we wanted that before blood elves went horde. It has nothing to do with what you do or don't have. I just want to play a high elf. It's a pretty simple request really, and as long as that is partially unfulfilled the request will continue.

[Rhlor]

Don't worry, Horde will get San'layn allied race later in Shadowlands, when the Maw's forces invade Azeroth in the later patches and the redeemed Kael'thas creates a new elite cadre of San'layn with Ven'thyr magic.





And then the Alliance gets something underwhelming to compensate.

These will be the two allied races of Shadowlands: San'layn and... Some'thing.

Ven'thyr and night fae

[Traycor]

Don't worry, Horde will get San'layn allied race later in Shadowlands, when the Maw's forces invade Azeroth in the later patches and the redeemed Kael'thas creates a new elite cadre of San'layn with Ven'thyr magic.

You've been fairly good at predicting these things before. So, do you think it will be an actual allied race, or just a set of customizations for blood elves built into this new system? I believe they said no new Allied Races were planned for Shadowlands.

[Jokubas]

While I support more paladins overall, the fact that paladins are just tied to a strong cultural worship of the light is what makes the unplayable in most cases. And Forsaken are definitely not light worshipers.

So either they have to make the paladin archetype about more than light (Void Paladins would allow for Undead and Void Elf paladins) or, give the Forsaken a strong light worship aspect... which with Calia, is actually feasible? Not just as one offs, but as a cultural movement -specially since they lost their god-queen and their faith is kinda shattered-

I've definitely been a fan of how Blizzard seems to have been putting in more work distinguishing the cultures of Warcraft, at least since the orc clans in Warlords of Draenor. From that perspective, I definitely think it's interesting to say "Hey, maybe the different human kingdoms had different customs and different religions," and I found the whole Harvest-Witch thing fascinating when Cataclysm came out.

I think you need to be careful that the new doesn't invalidate the old, though. Paladins were the human thing, the Alliance thing, and we still act like they are, but if you look at that breakdown, it just doesn't hold up anymore for humans (killing the named characters off doesn't help). Just to note, I think it's just as weird that humans have more access to druids as I do that they have so little access to paladins (and that's part of the infamous dilution of night elven culture).

The Forsaken thing is also a larger problem I see with the race as a whole. They're supposed to be the tragic victims of the Scourge's rampage through Lordaeron, not evil death-monsters themselves. I can get that the trauma caused many of them to look at things differently and that formed a new culture, but I certainly would have no problem if Blizzard just said "some of the Forsaken held onto their old beliefs, even if it causes them pain" and it really makes no sense if that isn't true (unless there really is still a magical influence on them), especially since Loraderon is arguably even more famous for their paladins than Stormwind. I also think it would help the race, showing that they don't have to be obsessed with dark powers.

As a side note connecting back to the main topic, I still want to see high elf paladins. It makes sense to me, what with the high elf priests of the Light, and those who stayed with the Alliance having such a strong history with them. To this day I don't know why Blizzard felt they need to explain how Blood Elves got access to the class, but I'll admit they got a neat story arc out of it in the end.

I definitely can't deny why Void Elves can't be paladins (as it is, I'm sure Blizzard would have disabled the non-Shadow Priest specs if that's the way they handled classes), though I would totally be for a Void Paladin. It's a topic for another time, but I love the idea of re-skinned class variants.

[FlubberPuddy]

So you think that wanting to play high elves is a fundamentally greedy request? You realize we wanted that before blood elves went horde. It has nothing to do with what you do or don't have. I just want to play a high elf. It's a pretty simple request really, and as long as that is partially unfulfilled the request will continue.

It's not greedy. It's a request. People who say that are still trying to simply deny options from others.

Thankfully we see that Blizzard saw that sentiment and gave it the bird! High Elves for all!

They've also said character customization will continue, so just because say Void Elves don't get certain High Elf options during Shadowlands, it doesn't mean they're done and that's all they'll ever get.

And the proof for it is the fact that we're actually getting most of what we've request for High Elves at this first pass for Allied Races.

Also the way Blizzard did High Elves mean they'd rather take the sharing approach rather than deny what is clearly wanted by both sides when it comes to character customization requests.

[Syegfryed]

Well alliance got Void Elves and we all know how much sense that made. So all bets are indeed off.

big difference here, void elves were completely new and made from the spot to be a new race, the vampire elves are a well established race of evil blood suckers, and lore shows the horde would not want a people like that, Rokhan and Talanji even talk bad about then, with reason

Retcon then for the sake of some folks is nonsense, thats why if they want rly a vampire-like race, Venthyr are the best bet, by being new, they can put then as pragmatic and not evil fucks

Also, for sake for "fairness" there is other races waiting in the line before then, who would make way more sense

[DeicideUH]

You've been fairly good at predicting these things before. So, do you think it will be an actual allied race, or just a set of customizations for blood elves built into this new system? I believe they said no new Allied Races were planned for Shadowlands.

I think there's a chance of Shadowlands having more allied races at some point, and San'layn has a fairly good chance of being the Horde one (popular request, could tie into expansion's story in many ways, its base model has no other allied race in that faction for now). But don't take this prediction too seriously, I wouldn't bet on it.

[Friendlyimmolation]

So you think that wanting to play high elves is a fundamentally greedy request? You realize we wanted that before blood elves went horde. It has nothing to do with what you do or don't have. I just want to play a high elf. It's a pretty simple request really, and as long as that is partially unfulfilled the request will continue.

I think wanting everything that blood elves have without having to play a blood elf is fundamentally a greedy request yes. It doesn't matter if you wanted it before Blood elves joined the Horde you're still asking for the cake that is blood elves without having to do the parts you don't like.

I can request for green Pandaren because I want it but it doesn't make the request not ridiculous.

[Rhlor]

Always thought it was silly that undead couldn't have elf ears. Most of them would have been elves. At least this issue was partially addressed by blood elf death knights.

i think that would be a proper customization for forsaken

[Friendlyimmolation]

big difference here, void elves were completely new and made from the spot to be a new race, the vampire elves are a well established race of evil blood suckers, and lore shows the horde would not want a people like that, Rokhan and Talanji even talk bad about then, with reason

Retcon then for the sake of some folks is nonsense, thats why if they want rly a vampire-like race, Venthyr are the best bet, by being new, they can put then as pragmatic and not evil fucks

Also, for sake for "fairness" there is other races waiting in the line before then, who would make way more sense

The Lore shows that the orcs, Trolls and Tauren are all as dumb as doornails and are completely trusting and unable to discern anyone's motivations until they already happen, so that's a pretty null argument. Sanlayn could have eaten children infront of them and they would have scratched their chins and talked among themselves asking if it was evil instead of actually doing anything, so if Blizzard plans to add vamps to the Horde, lore is one thing they wouldn't have to re-write or retcon the Horde into accepting them.

[Traycor]

I think wanting everything that blood elves have without having to play a blood elf is fundamentally a greedy request yes. It doesn't matter if you wanted it before Blood elves joined the Horde you're still asking for the cake that is blood elves without having to do the parts you don't like.

I can request for green Pandaren because I want it but it doesn't make the request not ridiculous.

No one is taking away your blood elves or their customization options. In fact, we were shown a bunch of new ones yesterday. Great updates for blood elves.

[Aldo Hawk]

The Lore shows that the orcs, Trolls and Tauren are all as dumb as doornails and are completely trusting and unable to discern anyone's motivations until they already happen, so that's a pretty null argument. Sanlayn could have eaten children infront of them and they would have scratched their chins and talked among themselves asking if it was evil instead of actually doing anything, so if Blizzard plans to add vamps to the Horde, lore is one thing they wouldn't have to re-write or retcon the Horde into accepting them.

What is greedy is to want to deny the Alliance a part of their faction because you have it on yours.

It's warcraft lore, and I love it.

Now I can fight the High elves with my Blood elf, it's Quel'thalas lore, thing that you never cared to understand.

[Jokubas]

Wretched would be a fantastic customization option for undead. It fits the body type perfectly. Even the cannibalism ability could just be wretched feeding on mana/leftover magic items, etc.

Well, I meant as a way to give blood elves some more options, but that isn't necessarily mutually exclusive, since I was thinking more along the lines of some really pale skin, stringy/really thinning hair, etc. for blood elves, not the whole way with body type and all (which you could still do elsewhere).

I guess some felblood elf options wouldn't have to be entirely off the table either. If the void elves can be playable with massive void corruption, I'm sure you could get away with saying that this blood elf drank a little too deeply of the fel, but they still have their mind together, especially since there isn't a Legion for them to defect to anymore. Something that doesn't go too overboard though, maybe just the glowing fingers, or a blatantly redder (I just realized they had some hilariously void elfy bluish variants) skin tone (especially since blood elf demon hunters essentially do give you the overboard options).

Either way, both of those concepts very much fit the history of the blood elves, and what makes them distinct, so you wouldn't have to worry about those options being on both elves.