Official High Elf Discussion Megathread

[delus]

Hey, what happened to Eyeball Man?

Maybe he found a better hobby than posting multiple page essays on why high elves are never going to happen. I wish him the best.

[DeicideUH]

I do see alleria like tattoos as something that could be very specifically Void Elven -in how it pays homage to her- It was odd that they didn't add farstrider tattoos on BE's tbh -the gold chains seemed very from out left field- overall most BE options don't seem to call to Farstrider -specifically War2 aesthetics- So maybe they are keeping that as an Alleria related, and thus Void Elf related, thing.

I do like the initial VE lore of being scholars, sure, but there's a lot of potential of VE's as this sort of "shadowy stalkers", a mirror of Alleria's role as a ranger, and a contrast to the more "fancy" scholarly origin of first generation VE's, being more primal and dangerous.

Could be a very neat flavor for Hunters and Rogues, the opportunity is right there for a twist on the ranger archetype with Alleria as their leader.

My feeling is that the ranger tattoos were abandoned when Blizzard decided to redesign the elves in Warcraft 3. They wanted the "wood elf" feel to go to the night elves, while high/blood elves were more urban, arcane-oriented and sophisticated. As such, the "wild" side of the old Warcraft 2 elves was reduced. When they later turned high elves into blood elves and those became playable in WoW, they went further in that redesign.

Ranger tattoos were mostly revived by high elf fans suggesting further differentiation from blood elves. Blizzard itself never used it in their art or concepts since Warcraft 2, the exception being Alleria because her appearance was first defined way back.

So, I think these tattoos may end up being a void elf customization option. Would they also come for blood elves? I don't think so (thought I wouldn't personally mind if it happened).

- - - Updated - - -

I had forgotten this existed and I'm sad I was reminded. Those Sanlayn are amazing looking.

I think there's still chance for them.

[Syegfryed]

But the point here is how "evil" groups can be redefined. As it happened with Forsaken, as it happened with the Void itself as a concept to make Void Elves.

void elves were not "refined" they were created from barely nothing, we had races using void energy not being evil, there was precedence before, like Etherals by example

As orcs were from War1 onwards.

and orcs had a shitton of explanation and lore to come up with that, it was a long way of developing since war1 to war3, it didn't happen in a spawn of one patch just because people wanted to play then

The idea of "no this group can't be playable because they are evil" runs against history itself. They have always been redefining groups and concepts.

not rly, the story show they are evil and completely against the living, the faction would not want then in their ranks, and they would not want join their ranks to be servants, when they being power hungry would want to lead. Forsaken had an alliance of convenience with a common enemy of the alliance, What the san'layn have to offer or to ask for the horde? Forsaken broke free of the Lich king and most of then were not just evil spawns of him who keep doing evil deeds, unlike Sanl'ayn that we don't have a single exception of not doing evil shit

There is also no population of then, they were supposed to be extinct, and a race who only exist by killing more elves and putting then a worse curse than the DK curse is kinda fucked up, what makes Venthyr a better suited race, since apparently they are their own race

but my main point is: 1)there is better options of a vampire race, 2) if is san'layn they would need way more time to build that shit up(and i doubt it would even be good, but that is just me) not just on the fly, 3) there is other races better suited who should come first. and 4) we have plenty of elves for a while, all this nonsense with HE should give us a break about elves

[MyWholeLifeIsThunder]

My feeling is that the ranger tattoos were abandoned when Blizzard decided to redesign the elves in Warcraft 3. They wanted the "wood elf" feel to go to the night elves, while high/blood elves were more urban, arcane-oriented and sophisticated. As such, the "wild" side of the old Warcraft 2 elves was reduced. When they later turned high elves into blood elves and those became playable in WoW, they went further in that redesign.

Ranger tattoos were mostly revived by high elf fans suggesting further differentiation from blood elves. Blizzard itself never used it in their art or concepts since Warcraft 2, the exception being Alleria because her appearance was first defined way back.

So, I think these tattoos may end up being a void elf customization option. Would they also come for blood elves? I don't think so (thought I wouldn't personally mind if it happened).

Indeed, but I do feel Alleria's design really brings it back to the forefront so that's why it feels really possible for VE's, not so much for BE's.

[DeicideUH]

Indeed, but I do feel Alleria's design really brings it back to the forefront so that's why it feels really possible for VE's, not so much for BE's.

Covering void/high elves in blue/violet/whatever painting while blood elves have gold and silver jewelry is also a nice way to further differentiate them (as we have been saying for 15 years).

[Traycor]

It is hard to say such a thing given Void elves got some of the most important option that defined blood elves from the void elf counterparts.

Point taken, but I think the OP makes it obvious that we'd be happy with completely different hair styles, and we were proposing what was (at the time) different skin tones. Blood Elves are getting all those tones now, so they can't be unique to high elves (I'm okay with that). I also recognize that creating a slew of all new hair for high elves would be a ton of work, and even then the blood elf players will demand that hair anyway.

So, things being what they are, I'll take whatever normal looking styles/colors they will give us. As stated before, I'd be fine with human hair options. Just don't want to be a void monster or Count Chocula.

[MyWholeLifeIsThunder]

void elves were not "refined" they were created from barely nothing, we had races using void energy not being evil, there was precedence before, like Etherals by example

Not really, friendly etherals didn't use void until we met the evil ethereals that used void.

and orcs had a shitton of explanation and lore to come up with that, it was a long way of developing since war1 to war3, it didn't happen in a spawn of one patch just because people wanted to play then

The question is not whether how much would take, just if it's possible. It is.

not rly, the story show they are evil and completely against the living, the faction would not want then in their ranks, and they would not want join their ranks to be servants, when they being power hungry would want to lead. Forsaken had an alliance of convenience with a common enemy of the alliance, What the san'layn have to offer or to ask for the horde? Forsaken broke free of the Lich king and most of then were not just evil spawns of him who keep doing evil deeds, unlike Sanl'ayn that we don't have a single exception of not doing evil shit

There is also no population of then, they were supposed to be extinct, and a race who only exist by killing more elves and putting then a worse curse than the DK curse is kinda fucked up, what makes Venthyr a better suited race, since apparently they are their own race

but my main point is: 1)there is better options of a vampire race, 2) if is san'layn they would need way more time to build that shit up(and i doubt it would even be good, but that is just me) not just on the fly, 3) there is other races better suited who should come first. and 4) we have plenty of elves for a while, all this nonsense with HE should give us a break about elves

Again, Forsaken and San'layn are literally just two different types of undead. To say that one can be playable and the other not because "it's evil" it's not consistent. When even playable forsaken have been doing pretty evil stuff since their introduction. But they are not wholly evil, just as San'layn could be.

It's just silly to say "no, THIS type of undead can't have any moral nuance" when you have other types of undead that do.

And the point is that San'layn could easily be done as a customization option for BE, unlike Venthyr that would have to be an AR. It literally doesn't add more elven races.

[DeicideUH]

Point taken, but I think the OP makes it obvious that we'd be happy with completely different hair styles, and we were proposing what was (at the time) different skin tones. Blood Elves are getting all those tones now, so they can't be unique to high elves (I'm okay with that). I also recognize that creating a slew of all new hair for high elves would be a ton of work, and even then the blood elf players will demand that hair anyway.

So, things being what they are, I'll take whatever normal looking styles/colors they will give us. As stated before, I'd be fine with human hair options. Just don't want to be a void monster or Count Chocula.

What do you think of the idea of allowing void elves to choose between tentacles or braids in their hair?

[MyWholeLifeIsThunder]

Covering void/high elves in blue/violet/whatever painting while blood elves have gold and silver jewelry is also a nice way to further differentiate them (as we have been saying for 15 years).

Right? People get mad when I point it out, but BE's just don't seem to be moving forward with a farstrider aesthetic as Alleria showcases it. It makes sense to use that -unused- aesthetic for the group the only person that has that aesthetic on game, leads, and with more void options.

VE's could do with some sweet void bird imagery as some people have pointed out in VE threads. Void tattoos and ethereal void feathers? Bitches feel like designing something.

I am bitches.

[Traycor]

What do you think of the idea of allowing void elves to choose between tentacles or braids in their hair?

LOVE the idea. There's been some excellent fan art floating around where people retextured the tentacles into braids and it looked sweet. Especially the ones where a second color was weaved into the braid.

The tentacles just retextured as hair (as seen in this preview) is also cool and would work just fine as well.

[Aldo Hawk]

I mean...the lore states the void elves are not high elves, and that the blood elves would rather reunite with high elves than fight them. I don't believe its inappropriate to make such a comment when you are incorrect on the matter.

I'm not entertaining this strange way of arguing you have, Broflake, it's clear where your feet are buried and I don't even want to bother myself. You will keep sticking your fingers into your ears anyways.

Also, who cares, people can play High elves now and whatever people say to them is unimportant, as it always has been.

This new grudge of these being customizations and it somewhat meaning that it is not real is pretty dense, so, as I said, not bothering myself. It's over, accept it.

There is this strange false narrative that the High elves have been some sort of key passionate member of the Alliance all this time when in reality they have always been a small number of elves that appreciated the Alliance.

Sorry, but that point seems too dense and forced, I don't know what importance it holds anyways, High elves have been Alliance and obviously they decided to stay that way instead of returning to their homeland, labels are useless given the fact.

No, it's greedy to want what an opposite faction has, and when you get almost all of it to still not be satisfied, even if you try to justify it by falsely stating that the High elves have been some sort of missing puzzle piece for the Alliance, hell the blood elves have been more passionate about being in the Horde and they can barely stand them, and that's still more dedication to a faction than the High elves ever had as a whole.

Ok... Two things.

Nobody has to 'try' to justify. High elves are Alliance, ergo, them not being playable is a missing piece for players.

And these characters being 'more or less passionate' is not even a real nor an important argument.

[Syegfryed]

Not really, friendly etherals didn't use void until we met the evil ethereals that used void.

it is already a precedence even recently, something didn't exist, he had a example, then it happened, you don't just cut the middle.

Also, plenty of races used void/shadow without being evil, like trolls by example it was never an inherently evil magic

The question is not whether how much would take, just if it's possible. It is.

and i didn't say it was impossible, just said it would be bad and/or nonsensical, when there is better options

Again, Forsaken and San'layn are literally just two different types of undead. To say that one can be playable and the other not because "it's evil" it's not consistent.

its completely consistent because they are different types of undead, you want to put the same standard to different things

the vampyr curse is something way worse than just the normal undead thing, we know that, is established, it can affect even the living putting then in a blood frenzy like we saw in legion, that shit has potential to be extreme dangerous to any living population

When even playable forsaken have been doing pretty evil stuff since their introduction. But they are not wholly evil, just as San'layn could be.

but there is good forsaken/undead, and there is none about san'layn, 100% of then are bad and evil, for obvious reasons(not just because undead but the vampyr curse) and this is what we have

It's just silly to say "no, THIS type of undead can't have any moral nuance" when you have other types of undead that do.

one type of undead is not affect by an ancient vampiric curse, one of those types did show moral nuance, and the other never did, not all undeads are the same and not everything would apply in the same way to all of then

if the blood prince was a guy with "nuance" and showed an other side, that you mention forsaken having before he died i would agree with you, but he just confirmed what we already knew, how evil they were anyway

And the point is that San'layn could easily be done as a customization option for BE, unlike Venthyr that would have to be an AR. It literally doesn't add more elven races.

i have no problem with customization options, you could give horns, hooves and feelblood elf skin to all elves for what i care, my problem is with new allied races

[Broflake]

Indeed, but I do feel Alleria's design really brings it back to the forefront so that's why it feels really possible for VE's, not so much for BE's.

I cannot see how given it is high elf in origination and thus, would make more sense for BE's culturally. Keep in mind BE also has facial tattoos featured on their art box in TBC. Let's not suggest VE shoul get exclusive stuff that would clearly be BE in origination That is just asking for more than they already received.

- - - Updated - - -

Covering void/high elves in blue/violet/whatever painting while blood elves have gold and silver jewelry is also a nice way to further differentiate them (as we have been saying for 15 years).

Alternatively, give both tattoos and make the VE ones unique from BE.
Make it weird looking so it enhances the void nature. Otherwise, it just looks like it wants to take from themes already shown for the HE/BE group simply because "alleria has it" while ignoring it being featured on the blood elf expansion box.

[Traycor]

I would personally be quite surprised if none of the Covenant races in Shadowlands end up as Allied Races. May not happen during Shadowlands proper, just as the Nightborne and Void Elves didn't become Allied Races until the BfA pre-release patch, but it seems almost certain to eventually happen.

It only makes sense considering how they're all being built on the back end as player characters now. Smart move too.

I'm curious now, if Sylvannas is heavily involved in this xpac (obviously) she might be seeing her old high elf buddies that she failed to save when Arthas invaded Quel'Thelas. That could mean a slew of new high elf customizations for NPCs that could then eventually be ported over for Alliance High Elves.

[Broflake]

I'm not entertaining this strange way of arguing you have, Broflake, it's clear where your feet are buried and I don't even want to bother myself. You will keep sticking your fingers into your ears anyways.

I apologize for speaking to you in a frank and factual way. I should clearly just make the presumption that you're unhappy and salty like the rest of several posters have been doing in a way to try and get their licks in. Its a bunch of pixels dude, chill.

Also, who cares, people can play High elves now and whatever people say to them is unimportant, as it always has been.

You can't say you like lore, then say you're a high elf on the alliance. The two are literal contradictions.

This new grudge of these being customizations and it somewhat meaning that it is not real is pretty dense, so, as I said, not bothering myself. It's over, accept it.

Alleria is a a void elf, not a high elf.
This is not a matter of begrudging customizations but holding people true to the philosophies they have claimed until the recent announcement. Sorry if I am holding people accountable for the justifications they've thrown away in the 15 years since this debate started. Sorry, you're not a high elf. Maybe lore will change, but until it does all the customizations do is make you an Alleria void elf.

Sorry, but that point seems too dense and forced, I don't know what importance it holds anyways, High elves have been Alliance and obviously they decided to stay that way instead of returning to their homeland, labels are useless given the fact.

because quel'lithien high elves werent alliance, they had loyalty to quel'thalas alone and hated lor'themar.
Those of high vale largely isolate themselves.
The only group tht is alliance aligned is the SC, and they aren't representative of their race like the blood elves are of the high elf race.
Its an honest statement that is factual. Otherwise, you'd refute not complain.

Ok... Two things.

Nobody has to 'try' to justify. High elves are Alliance, ergo, them not being playable is a missing piece for players.

And these characters being 'more or less passionate' is not even a real nor an important argument.

Okay, so, humans have been assisting the horde, so I expect you to support people wanting humans on the horde.

[Jokubas]

No doubt some people are already demanding everything. However, I think the reasonable majority that want high elves will be more than content as long as they have all the parts and pieces necessary to play a high elf. Personally I wouldn't bat at eye if blood elves had literally 10x the number of customization options compared to high elves, as long as we get the basics (regular hair colors/hair styles, regular skin colors, and don't turn into a void monster when fighting).

Definitely. Nowadays, I see a lot of people say "there will always be someone who hates something, so don't listen to them", but if I've learned anything, it's that there will also always be someone who will like anything. You can never judge an argument based on the extreme ends, or even the presence of extreme ends, because they'll always be unreasonable, but they'll also always exist.

I am fairly certain that if, when Battle for Azeroth was announced, and one of the Alliance Allied Races was just high elves instead of void elves, even if they were an exact copy of blood elves but with blue eyes instead of green, a thread like this never would have existed. That's all that was ever really canonical anyway. Certainly some people would have complained that it seemed like a boring Allied Race for the Alliance, but I'm not even sure how loud that would have been, considering the other criticisms about Alliance Allied Races (like that they're getting more made-up or less popular ones, while the Horde get ones that have been asked for, which high elves actually would have countered). All the extra customization like the war paint and playing up cultural distinctions were mostly dredged out of outdated lore because we didn't get them.

If we finish getting the main requests, like natural hair colors, the ability to go without void effects, and hopefully being able to be called high elves I think most people are going to be okay with it because those are the minimum that are needed to fulfill the high elven fantasy, everything else is just gravy. Even as a common comment was that we needed more distinctions to get high elves as a race, I was always a little worried that we'd end up getting something simple after all and we'd get attached to these options for nothing, but at the same time, that's way less of a concern now. With Shadowlands showing that Blizzard can come back to customization in a big way, we could always get war paint or scars or whatever later. The important part is just having the race be an option.

[MyWholeLifeIsThunder]

I cannot see how given it is high elf in origination and thus, would make more sense for BE's culturally. Keep in mind BE also has facial tattoos featured on their art box in TBC. Let's not suggest VE shoul get exclusive stuff that would clearly be BE in origination That is just asking for more than they already received.

Come on dude:

-Kinda evident that Alleria's look is a throwback, as we don't see her look present in modern BE society at all. The whole point is "let's use this unused aspect than only an alliance aligned elf represents" and you go all "actually blood elves should have it." The point is literally about being VE's honoring Alleria and you go "makes more sense for BE's" unbelievable.

-The Blood Elf tattoos on the cover art are awesome, should be an option for Blood Elves, and look nothing like the war paint I'm actually talking about.

[Traycor]

You can't say you like lore, then say you're a high elf on the alliance. The two are literal contradictions.

Just as wildhammer dwarves are being added without being added, it's pretty obvious that these new options are not for "void" elves, though they do get to reap the benefits. This is Blizzard adding playable high elves. And high elves has been with the Alliance since WC2 (and back 1000 years before that). Silver Covenant is the best example, but there are plenty others, such as the Theramore high elves that survived the attack. That group is certainly at least as large as the "crack squad" of void elves we have today.

Lore = high elves on Alliance
and now gameplay = high elves on Alliance

If the new name slot coding that was datamined allows them to be called high elves in game, more the better.

[Aldo Hawk]

I apologize for speaking to you in a frank and factual way.

Then in same breath:

You can't say you like lore, then say you're a high elf on the alliance. The two are literal contradictions.

As I said, you seem to have a personal issue with the matter, since it's common knowledge that High elves are Alliance members, denying that is flat earth levels of delusion.

I should clearly just make the presumption that you're unhappy and salty like the rest of several posters have been doing in a way to try and get their licks in. Its a bunch of pixels dude, chill.

Do you know what's not a presumption? Your involvement. And your involvement has been pretty hardcore into being against, for a very long time, so... Looks like you are nobody to say these things. Or, in other words, you are being very hypocritical.

And about being salty... That looks like projection, since I can't see why and how I would be 'salty', but there's reasons to see why you would be, given the recent events, so... Gonna press X on that.

Alleria is a a void elf, not a high elf.
This is not a matter of begrudging customizations but holding people true to the philosophies they have claimed until the recent announcement. Sorry if I am holding people accountable for the justifications they've thrown away in the 15 years since this debate started. Sorry, you're not a high elf. Maybe lore will change, but until it does all the customizations do is make you an Alleria void elf.

'Holding people accountable' is a cute way to say you want them to continue discussing so you can still have the passtime of dancing between points to make appear as if things are the way you want them to be. You should maybe find another topic, this one is dead for you.

Maybe you shouldn't have let the discussion of the matter become part of your personality.

And I have said this quite a bunch of times, but my character is a Blood elf and I don't even play Alliance to this day, so it's clear that you either don't even try to make use of reading comprehension or you purposefully ignore what others say to push your own points. Spoiler: Doesn't work, in fact, it makes people being even more dubious about what you say.

because quel'lithien high elves werent alliance, they had loyalty to quel'thalas alone and hated lor'themar.
Those of high vale largely isolate themselves.
The only group tht is alliance aligned is the SC, and they aren't representative of their race like the blood elves are of the high elf race.
Its an honest statement that is factual. Otherwise, you'd refute not complain.



Okay, so, humans have been assisting the horde, so I expect you to support people wanting humans on the horde.

This is not even a response made to you, and also looking at the wrong take you got into it (as per usual) and the vitriol that can be smelled from it, I'm just ignoring this part. It seems like a complaint that I have no responsibility to look into, and even less to pay more attention than needed.

Let's be real, you have been ignoring bunchs and bunchs of explanations, rationale, and facts that were presented not only to you, but to a bunch of people that were on the side that discussed against the implementation of this option for players, so pointing that you constantly bury your fingers into your ears is an overstatement, it's part of the reality when engaging with you on any forum or place.

- - - Updated - - -

Just as wildhammer dwarves are being added without being added, it's pretty obvious that these new options are not for "void" elves, though they do get to reap the benefits. This is Blizzard adding playable high elves. And high elves has been with the Alliance since WC2 (and back 1000 years before that). Silver Covenant is the best example, but there are plenty others, such as the Theramore high elves that survived the attack. That group is certainly at least as large as the "crack squad" of void elves we have today.

Lore = high elves on Alliance
and now gameplay = high elves on Alliance

Exactly this.

I don't know what's so hard to understand.

Maybe they do, but don't want to admit.

If the new name slot coding that was datamined allows them to be called high elves in game, more the better.

The empty spaces on the files seem enough to fit Ren'dorei and Quel'dorei.

[Broflake]

Then in same breath:

As I said, you seem to have a personal issue with the matter, since it's common knowledge that High elves are Alliance members, denying that is flat earth levels of delusion.

So...brightsun, and the quel'lithien high elves don't count?
What about auric sunchaser and the high elves at the sunwell? Do...they not count?
How about the fact that the silver covenant hasn't assisted the alliance since MoP?

The Earth is round, that is a fact.
Your claim is subjective and ignores everything around it.

Are there some high elves allied to the alliance? Yes.
But there are also humans who are allied to the horde.
That doesn't speak for the majority though.

Do you know what's not a presumption? Your involvement. And your involvement has been pretty hardcore into being against, for a very long time, so... Looks like you are nobody to say these things. Or, in other words, you are being very hypocritical.

I don't see how it is appropriate to say I am a nobody, but then demand your own be placed foremost. We all have the same equal voice bud.

And about being salty... That looks like projection, since I can't see why and how I would be 'salty', but there's reasons to see why you would be, given the recent events, so... Gonna press X on that.

I mean...you've long just been bitter people don't agree with your assertions, and rather than show how they might be wrong you just rail against them like now.

'Holding people accountable' is a cute way to say you want them to continue discussing so you can still have the passtime of dancing between points to make appear as if things are the way you want them to be. You should maybe find another topic, this one is dead for you.

I mean....holding people accountable =/= wanting them to continue discussing what blizzard has made a decision on.
I am, however, going to point out the hypocrisy of said people.
You can't say you care about lore, then toss it aside to justify high elves, and then, continue to ignore high elves after blizzard makes a decision about aesthetics.
By your logic, Alleria is a high elf, which is clearly false given what has been written and stated by devs.
Pointing out hypocrisy is showing that the majority of helfers really were just acting in bad faith.

Maybe you shouldn't have let the discussion of the matter become part of your personality.

That is a particularly bitter thing for you to say given your history.

And I have said this quite a bunch of times, but my character is a Blood elf and I don't even play Alliance to this day, so it's clear that you either don't even try to make use of reading comprehension or you purposefully ignore what others say to push your own points. Spoiler: Doesn't work, in fact, it makes people being even more dubious about what you say.

What relevance does you playing blood elf and shouting for high elves do?
I don't care about what you do or do not do since its irrelevant of the conversation and takes a personal tone that isn't appropriate.

This is not even a response made to you

You are on a public form, not discord.

, and also looking at the wrong take you got into it (as per usual) and the vitriol that can be smelled from it, I'm just ignoring this part. It seems like a complaint that I have no responsibility to look into, and even less to pay more attention than needed.

You're spending a lot of time on it.

Let's be real, you have been ignoring bunchs and bunchs of explanations, rationale, and facts that were presented not only to you, but to a bunch of people that were on the side that discussed against the implementation of this option for players, so pointing that you constantly bury your fingers into your ears is an overstatement, it's part of the reality when engaging with you on any forum or place.

I mean, if you really blieved this you would spend more time demonstrating how my points are wrong, rather than complaining about them Aldo. You don't seem interested in having an honest discussion right now. Which is fine, that is your perogative, but I will point it out.

Exactly this.

I don't know what's so hard to understand.

Maybe they do, but don't want to admit.

Probably because Dan user said he could rp a high elf on the horde now and made no notion about void elves? It is largely presumption on helfers part, just like the claim of high elves having some form of ownership of alleria's unique tattoo.

The empty spaces on the files seem enough to fit Ren'dorei and Quel'dorei.[/QUOTE]