Official High Elf Discussion Megathread

[Broflake]

No. It was not a "foil". That is the request. We want high elves as a playable allied race. The request was never about "we want high elves as customization options".

Which is why the mass majority of helfers are going. "yes this is what we wanted."?
Perhaps it does not apply to you, but it is a contradiction to say "we wanted high elves but we're fine with taking their looks instead!".

It's very intellectually dishonest to say we are lying when we say we want high elves as a playable allied race simply because some are accepting the upcoming void elf customization options as a compromise.

Oh please, void elves in their original look was the compromise. You had everything but the skin tone.
Now you have the skin tone...making them the exact same as blood elves design wise.
So...what do blood elves get in return?
A compromise means you get alittle of what you want, not everything, and this was the everything. It is flat out dishonest to repeatedly claim this to be a compromise. So...how am I being intellectually dishonest when you admit to my claim?

Same applies to you. If you want to claim that blood elves are "losing" something, you have to show what they are losing, and why do you think they're losing it.

Is this a joke? I've brought this up a few times now.

What was the difference between a blood elf and a void elf prior to this change? Skin tones
What is the difference after? Nothing.

And if you're going to go "well void elves have blue hair!", blood elves had them before hand. hell they had blue eyes too.
So...seems like there isn't a reason to choose a blood elf.

The best part is everytime I mention this, there isn't a counter.

[DeicideUH]

Do you have some insider information about that?

I said "probably". It reasonable that allied races that share a model with a base race may be benefitted when the base model gets its upgrades.

Like it just happened with blood elves/void elves.

[Syegfryed]

I'm sorry, but with high elves and blood elves in Telegrus Rift, that wasn't really the case. Now that's even less the case.

Right now void elf is another term for "Alliance Thalassian elves".

void elf is either a blood elf or high elf mutated by the void, no matter what, a new race of elves, and you can call and imagine what you like, but is what they are

Blizzard gave you an iconic Alliance race 13 years ago. We can't undo that. But at least we can fix that, and Blizzard decided to do so.

the "iconic" alliance race, left the alliance in the very game you think they were iconic, so no.

And its already "fixed", since people only care about looks, get all the blood elf options and thematic is nonsensical

Yup this post just shows despite the developers saying these are the same races, you simply can't accept it.

they said kul'tirans were another breed of humans, and they are indeed, completely different from each other, unlike elves who are the same, im so sorry you don't want to accept that because of your agenda but is the reality.

Being "human" don't make you be the same thing, same as being "orc" or "dwarf" don't make you the exact same orc or dwarf

Probably because you're more concerned with denying options from others regardless of anything else.

don't try to flip the coin here with the tentative of appeal to pity, people are more concerned in getting everything blood elves have, this isn't "denying options from others regardless, you already got a lot of options that was exactly what people wanted, now they are demanding more and more

That's ok though, seeing as High Elves are happening means the developers don't share your view and that's enough for me to disregard whatever you're saying.

void elves with blood/high elf skin color is happening, blood/high elves changing to become void elf is happening, thats excellent, but lets not pretend they are just high elves with shadow-priest like powers, and asking the entirety of blood elves thing, like paladins, their hairstyle and changing their racials is completely nonsensical.

[Broflake]

Nightborne will probably get some love during the night elf pass.

That would be nice. Fixed model?

[Ielenia]

Which is why the mass majority of helfers are going. "yes this is what we wanted."?

Are they? Just because they're saying some people are accepting the compromise doesn't mean "this is what they wanted".

Oh please, void elves in their original look was the compromise. You had everything but the skin tone.

They were not. It's only a compromise in the way of Blizzard saying "how about I give you exactly none of what you're asking, and you guys shut up?" We didn't have the lore. Or the "high elf" name. The void elf allied race gave the pro-high-elf community nothing they asked about.

Now you have the skin tone...making them the exact same as blood elves design wise.

The model design is meaningless. If it was, there wouldn't be so many discussion in this mega-thread about ways to make the high elves look different from blood elves. It's about the lore.

So...what do blood elves get in return?

In return of what? They're losing absolutely nothing to get something "in return".

A compromise means you get alittle of what you want, not everything, and this was the everything. It is flat out dishonest to repeatedly claim this to be a compromise. So...how am I being intellectually dishonest when you admit to my claim?

Because it's not a compromise, since the void elves gave absolutely nothing of what was being asked for.

Is this a joke? I've brought this up a few times now.

What was the difference between a blood elf and a void elf prior to this change? Skin tones
What is the difference after? Nothing.

And if you're going to go "well void elves have blue hair!", blood elves had them before hand. hell they had blue eyes too.
So...seems like there isn't a reason to choose a blood elf.

The best part is everytime I mention this, there isn't a counter.

So they now can have similar skin colors. Alright. So what? I'll repeat: what are the blood elves losing? No skin color is being removed from the blood elves, as far as I know.

[Starla]

I said "probably". It reasonable that allied races that share a model with a base race may be benefitted when the base model gets its upgrades.

Like it just happened with blood elves/void elves.

I mean that's easy for you to say but we have no proof there is going to be any equity for other people who want more for their favorite races which have been clearly neglected. Nice of you to be so generous.

[Ielenia]

the "iconic" alliance race, left the alliance in the very game you think they were iconic, so no.

And has been part of the Alliance through the vast majority of WoW.

And its already "fixed", since people only care about looks, get all the blood elf options and thematic is nonsensical

This is objectively false. If "looks were only what people cared about", there wouldn't be a single peep about making high elves look different from blood elves in this thread.

[Syegfryed]

And has been part of the Alliance through the vast majority of WoW.

they never were an iconic race in the vast majority of wow, they barely are a sidekick race, appearing in some instances

This is objectively false. If "looks were only what people cared about", there wouldn't be a single peep about making high elves look different from blood elves in this thread.

yeah look different with the same fair skin color, sure.

[Sarallesta]

Is this a joke? I've brought this up a few times now.

What was the difference between a blood elf and a void elf prior to this change? Skin tones
What is the difference after? Nothing.

And if you're going to go "well void elves have blue hair!", blood elves had them before hand. hell they had blue eyes too.
So...seems like there isn't a reason to choose a blood elf.

The best part is everytime I mention this, there isn't a counter.

Blood Elves skin colours are unique only to the Horde, but they are not unique to the entire game with Humans, Dwarves and Gnomes also having those skin options. On top of that, the blue ares are also not unique to the Blood Elves, considering it has been shown on Alliance High Elven NPC's, which the exception of a couple, but even with those, there eyes are like the old DK's eyes.

[DeicideUH]

That would be nice. Fixed model?

I'm expecting at least new textures (skins, eyes, hair colors).

[Broflake]

I said "probably". It reasonable that allied races that share a model with a base race may be benefitted when the base model gets its upgrades.

Like it just happened with blood elves/void elves.

True but they have a bit more work to do. Hopefully beta brings up stuff

- - - Updated - - -

And has been part of the Alliance through the vast majority of WoW.

3 patches worth in which they had a storyline through the silver covenant.
The rest? Quest givers.
Does this mean humans are major for horde too since they occassionally help in WoW?

[Molvonos]

And has been part of the Alliance through the vast majority of WoW.

They really weren't, though.

A vast majority of the high elves that survived Arthas became renamed (rebranded?) themselves as Blood Elves. Sure, some of the actual High Elves remained as they were, which you could see randomly throughout Classic Azeroth. There weren't many. Assuming the information is correct, High Elves make up only 1% of the former population, while Blood Elves made up 9%. These numbers have likely changed a bit with the creation of the Void Elves (which some High and Blood Elves became), but on top of the fact that Blood Elves have repeatedly made appearances as major stakeholders of the Horde's future (with their numbers going up as an assumption), the only real showcase for High Elves was the Silver Covenant.

Which only showed up in LK-era Dalaran and had next to no real impact on any part of the storyline, anywhere.

There was also the singular outpost in Terrokar in BC. But I don't recall seeing them with any proper influence in any expansion beyond LK.

They really haven't been a part of the Alliance in any justifiable manner.

Honestly though, ya'll (the High Elf super-advocates/extremists) can fight the good fight, but with the advent of all the customization options Void Elves are getting to look more like High Elves, the chances of getting a proper Allied Race as next to nothing. 0.00001%?

The chances they'll have any impact in Shadowlands is about as much -- i mean, beyond seeing a bunch of High Elf ghosts wandering about, but even the NPCs they've listed off didn't have any notable High Elf characters.... (I mean, technically Kael'thas could be considered a High Elf?)

[Kyriani]

I mean that's easy for you to say but we have no proof there is going to be any equity for other people who want more for their favorite races which have been clearly neglected. Nice of you to be so generous.

I have a feeling that, at the very least, the first four allied races are getting some love for Shadowlands launch. We've already seen that Void Elves are getting some, and there's no reason the other three couldn't "inherit" whatever goodies their parent races get so long as it makes sense for the race. I wouldn't expect the Nightborne to get the body markings but I have a pretty strong suspicion they are going to get a bunch of the Night Elf skin tones. I can only hope that they also get some options to make them look closer to their NPCs as well.

Just allowing the first four to inherit things from their parent races is an easy win for Blizzard because it requires very little effort on their part to do and you know that Blizzard (like any other business) likes to get a lot of return for very little investment. :P

[Broflake]

Are they? Just because they're saying some people are accepting the compromise doesn't mean "this is what they wanted".

That is the definition of a compromise.
If a compromise gives you exactly what you wanted, then it isn't a compromise. That is what compromise means. When you talk salt with the sugar.

They were not. It's only a compromise in the way of Blizzard saying "how about I give you exactly none of what you're asking, and you guys shut up?" We didn't have the lore. Or the "high elf" name. The void elf allied race gave the pro-high-elf community nothing they asked about.

I beg to differ, because it only took a color change to make you, and several other helfers to begin clapping their hands with approval and completely forgetting to have them as a separate AR.
Like...please, you can't keep that up when your actions say otherwise.
You got quite a bit, your denial of it doesn't mean much, but hey, it just goes to show.
when you give a mouse a cookie
First void elves, now skins, and now people asking for void elf paladins and silvermoon as a base.

The model design is meaningless.

To you? Maybe.
Objectively? It means quite a bit. The model is the exact same as the blood elf, separated only by color. So the model may not matter to you, but color does?
That is insightful

If it was, there wouldn't be so many discussion in this mega-thread about ways to make the high elves look different from blood elves. It's about the lore.

No it isn't, because if it was about lore you wouldn't suggest ways of making high elves, the exact same people from the same region separated by only a decade of time, look different from blood elves.
That isn't respecting lore, that is the opposite.
Its like people who thank a McDonalds worker for their meal but doesn't believe in them making a livable wage. You were in it for looks.
Your joy with a simply skin color change is indicative of it.

In return of what? They're losing absolutely nothing to get something "in return".

Its like you read, but you ignore it.
Void elves have void theme and blood/high elf theme.
Blood elves have blood elf theme, and no other theme.
So yeah, what do they get in return?
This is simply math.
1+? = 2
Blood elves need the 1

Because it's not a compromise, since the void elves gave absolutely nothing of what was being asked for.

That is the definition of a compromise where you dont get everything you want. Sorry.

So they now can have similar skin colors. Alright. So what? I'll repeat: what are the blood elves losing? No skin color is being removed from the blood elves, as far as I know.

Honestly dude, you're being incredibly obtuse. Blood elves literally lost a theme to void elves. You don't need to remove something for it to be lost. If you can't have an honest discussion, then itrs better for you to just say.

"I dont care that i look the exact same as a blood elf. Thats what I wanted."

[Kyriani]

In fairness I'd wouldn't say that Void Elves will have the Blood Elf theme, only the Void Elf theme and soon the High Elf theme.

While Blood Elves still have the Blood Elf theme and soon the High Elf theme. I'm also holding out hope for the San'layn/Dark Ranger customization for those themes as well.

Also... how does one "lose" a theme? I can see how one can "share" a theme, but I don't see Blood Elves "losing" anything.

[Starla]

I have a feeling that, at the very least, the first four allied races are getting some love for Shadowlands launch. We've already seen that Void Elves are getting some, and there's no reason the other three couldn't "inherit" whatever goodies their parent races get so long as it makes sense for the race. I wouldn't expect the Nightborne to get the body markings but I have a pretty strong suspicion they are going to get a bunch of the Night Elf skin tones. I can only hope that they also get some options to make them look closer to their NPCs as well.

Just allowing the first four to inherit things from their parent races is an easy win for Blizzard because it requires very little effort on their part to do and you know that Blizzard (like any other business) likes to get a lot of return for very little investment. :P

With absolutely no proof or evidence you feel free to share this feeling? It's kind of sad because it just comes off as insensitivity to the people who love the races they play and have been given little attention.

Also I wasn't addressing you but another person.

[Molvonos]

With absolutely no proof or evidence you feel free to share this feeling? It's kind of sad because it just comes off as insensitivity to the people who love the races they play and have been given little attention.

Also I wasn't addressing you but another person.

I don't understand your problem.

We're allowed to post our opinions and feelings. They specifically stated 'I have a feeling', which is a disclaimer. You're acting like it's an attack on you 'and the people who love the races'. Like, how thin exactly is your skin?

[Broflake]

In fairness I'd wouldn't say that Void Elves will have the Blood Elf theme, only the Void Elf theme and soon the High Elf theme.

While Blood Elves still have the Blood Elf theme and soon the High Elf theme. I'm also holding out hope for the San'layn/Dark Ranger customization for those themes as well.

Also... how does one "lose" a theme? I can see how one can "share" a theme, but I don't see Blood Elves "losing" anything.

The blood elf theme has been pushed as being the high elf theme. The only thing that was ever missing was the blue eyes which was given to them. So it wasn't as if they gained that theme recently. They had it since TBC.
The problem is the void elf change means they can play a void theme OR a high elf theme.

So now, its a 2 to 1 situation.
Simply because they don't bring anything design wise that is unique to themselves that separates them from those on the alliance. It is why MMOs almost never share races, not even skin colors, because aesthetics are such a powerful facet that it affects the way the game is perceived.

So now, you have blood elves who...offer paladins. Which you can get thorugh zandalari/tauren as well. That's about it though, and Paladins aren't even a necessary or wanted class.
Which velfers (because lets be real they never cared for high elves just the skins) also want.


So...if a void elf gives me more than blood elves do? Why are blood elves even an option? Despite being the original option, they've become redundant and inferior.

[Molvonos]

The blood elf theme has been pushed as being the high elf theme. The only thing that was ever missing was the blue eyes which was given to them. So it wasn't as if they gained that theme recently. They had it since TBC.
The problem is the void elf change means they can play a void theme OR a high elf theme.

So now, its a 2 to 1 situation.
Simply because they don't bring anything design wise that is unique to themselves that separates them from those on the alliance. It is why MMOs almost never share races, not even skin colors, because aesthetics are such a powerful facet that it affects the way the game is perceived.

So now, you have blood elves who...offer paladins. Which you can get thorugh zandalari/tauren as well. That's about it though, and Paladins aren't even a necessary or wanted class.
Which velfers (because lets be real they never cared for high elves just the skins) also want.


So...if a void elf gives me more than blood elves do? Why are blood elves even an option? Despite being the original option, they've become redundant and inferior.

There's way too much opinion in your post painted as fact to take seriously.

No type of class is 'necessary'. You can tank as a warrior, guardian druid, vengeance demon hunter or blood death knight instead of a paladin.

You can heal as (inserts list of healers). You can dps as (inserts list of dps).

But to say they're unwanted is utterly untrue by any metric of definition.

To say they're redundant and inferior is utterly untrue.

If we're stating bias -- Blood Elf racials are superior to Void Elf racials.

If you're trying to talk on behalf of high elves, you're doing a pretty bad job of it.

If you're trying to talk on behalf of blood elves? You're doing a pretty bad job of it.

So what exactly were you intending with this post?

[Broflake]

There's way too much opinion in your post painted as fact to take seriously.

Counter it then. There is a reason in game design, a palette swap changed the perception of players for mobs, even if the design is the same.
Cost effective, and it affects perception.

No type of class is 'necessary'. You can tank as a warrior, guardian druid, vengeance demon hunter or blood death knight instead of a paladin.

You either don't do any form of hardcore M+ or raiding. There are classes that are preferred, and classes that are not.
Paladins, are not.
Secondly, they are also a part of the unique offering of blood elf, which velfers want.

To say they're redundant and inferior is utterly untrue.

This is a statement, not a counter.
What do you get playing a blood elf that you would not get playing a void elf?
Paladin.
Alliance has the best paladins, so, not a concern, and light doesnt mesh with void.

If we're stating bias -- Blood Elf racials are superior to Void Elf racials.

That's a cool story to tell until you realize the DPS difference is 0.99%, and that the void elves teleport ability provides significantly greater utility and mobility than arcane torrents niche use.
There is also the much more practical cost reduction for mogs so...yeah.
The superior argument doesn't work for anyone that can do basic math.
Oh, and that 1% difference, shrinks further on any class than stacking crit...which ismost.

If you're trying to talk on behalf of high elves, you're doing a pretty bad job of it.

If you're trying to talk on behalf of void elves, you're doing a pretty bad job of it.

If you're trying to talk on behalf of blood elves? You're doing a pretty bad job of it.

If you're trying to talk on behalf of...
Sorry, one should be enough to get the point across.
Your entire post is nothing but assumptions and claims bereft of actual counter arguments.
You havent addressed my points regarding theme.
You came out of nowhere bringing up the trinity of the RPG as if it has anybearing on the context of this discussion

So what exactly were you intending with this post?

if you are asking this question then you are admiring a mirror.

Question...whats the deal with your sig and who is Jonnusthegreat? Is it some dude who got in trouble or something?