Official High Elf Discussion Megathread

[Ielenia]

the "iconic" alliance race, left the alliance in the very game you think they were iconic, so no.

And has been part of the Alliance through the vast majority of WoW.

And its already "fixed", since people only care about looks, get all the blood elf options and thematic is nonsensical

This is objectively false. If "looks were only what people cared about", there wouldn't be a single peep about making high elves look different from blood elves in this thread.

[Syegfryed]

And has been part of the Alliance through the vast majority of WoW.

they never were an iconic race in the vast majority of wow, they barely are a sidekick race, appearing in some instances

This is objectively false. If "looks were only what people cared about", there wouldn't be a single peep about making high elves look different from blood elves in this thread.

yeah look different with the same fair skin color, sure.

[Sarallesta]

Is this a joke? I've brought this up a few times now.

What was the difference between a blood elf and a void elf prior to this change? Skin tones
What is the difference after? Nothing.

And if you're going to go "well void elves have blue hair!", blood elves had them before hand. hell they had blue eyes too.
So...seems like there isn't a reason to choose a blood elf.

The best part is everytime I mention this, there isn't a counter.

Blood Elves skin colours are unique only to the Horde, but they are not unique to the entire game with Humans, Dwarves and Gnomes also having those skin options. On top of that, the blue ares are also not unique to the Blood Elves, considering it has been shown on Alliance High Elven NPC's, which the exception of a couple, but even with those, there eyes are like the old DK's eyes.

[DeicideUH]

That would be nice. Fixed model?

I'm expecting at least new textures (skins, eyes, hair colors).

[Broflake]

I said "probably". It reasonable that allied races that share a model with a base race may be benefitted when the base model gets its upgrades.

Like it just happened with blood elves/void elves.

True but they have a bit more work to do. Hopefully beta brings up stuff

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And has been part of the Alliance through the vast majority of WoW.

3 patches worth in which they had a storyline through the silver covenant.
The rest? Quest givers.
Does this mean humans are major for horde too since they occassionally help in WoW?

[Molvonos]

And has been part of the Alliance through the vast majority of WoW.

They really weren't, though.

A vast majority of the high elves that survived Arthas became renamed (rebranded?) themselves as Blood Elves. Sure, some of the actual High Elves remained as they were, which you could see randomly throughout Classic Azeroth. There weren't many. Assuming the information is correct, High Elves make up only 1% of the former population, while Blood Elves made up 9%. These numbers have likely changed a bit with the creation of the Void Elves (which some High and Blood Elves became), but on top of the fact that Blood Elves have repeatedly made appearances as major stakeholders of the Horde's future (with their numbers going up as an assumption), the only real showcase for High Elves was the Silver Covenant.

Which only showed up in LK-era Dalaran and had next to no real impact on any part of the storyline, anywhere.

There was also the singular outpost in Terrokar in BC. But I don't recall seeing them with any proper influence in any expansion beyond LK.

They really haven't been a part of the Alliance in any justifiable manner.

Honestly though, ya'll (the High Elf super-advocates/extremists) can fight the good fight, but with the advent of all the customization options Void Elves are getting to look more like High Elves, the chances of getting a proper Allied Race as next to nothing. 0.00001%?

The chances they'll have any impact in Shadowlands is about as much -- i mean, beyond seeing a bunch of High Elf ghosts wandering about, but even the NPCs they've listed off didn't have any notable High Elf characters.... (I mean, technically Kael'thas could be considered a High Elf?)

[Kyriani]

I mean that's easy for you to say but we have no proof there is going to be any equity for other people who want more for their favorite races which have been clearly neglected. Nice of you to be so generous.

I have a feeling that, at the very least, the first four allied races are getting some love for Shadowlands launch. We've already seen that Void Elves are getting some, and there's no reason the other three couldn't "inherit" whatever goodies their parent races get so long as it makes sense for the race. I wouldn't expect the Nightborne to get the body markings but I have a pretty strong suspicion they are going to get a bunch of the Night Elf skin tones. I can only hope that they also get some options to make them look closer to their NPCs as well.

Just allowing the first four to inherit things from their parent races is an easy win for Blizzard because it requires very little effort on their part to do and you know that Blizzard (like any other business) likes to get a lot of return for very little investment. :P

[Broflake]

Are they? Just because they're saying some people are accepting the compromise doesn't mean "this is what they wanted".

That is the definition of a compromise.
If a compromise gives you exactly what you wanted, then it isn't a compromise. That is what compromise means. When you talk salt with the sugar.

They were not. It's only a compromise in the way of Blizzard saying "how about I give you exactly none of what you're asking, and you guys shut up?" We didn't have the lore. Or the "high elf" name. The void elf allied race gave the pro-high-elf community nothing they asked about.

I beg to differ, because it only took a color change to make you, and several other helfers to begin clapping their hands with approval and completely forgetting to have them as a separate AR.
Like...please, you can't keep that up when your actions say otherwise.
You got quite a bit, your denial of it doesn't mean much, but hey, it just goes to show.
when you give a mouse a cookie
First void elves, now skins, and now people asking for void elf paladins and silvermoon as a base.

The model design is meaningless.

To you? Maybe.
Objectively? It means quite a bit. The model is the exact same as the blood elf, separated only by color. So the model may not matter to you, but color does?
That is insightful

If it was, there wouldn't be so many discussion in this mega-thread about ways to make the high elves look different from blood elves. It's about the lore.

No it isn't, because if it was about lore you wouldn't suggest ways of making high elves, the exact same people from the same region separated by only a decade of time, look different from blood elves.
That isn't respecting lore, that is the opposite.
Its like people who thank a McDonalds worker for their meal but doesn't believe in them making a livable wage. You were in it for looks.
Your joy with a simply skin color change is indicative of it.

In return of what? They're losing absolutely nothing to get something "in return".

Its like you read, but you ignore it.
Void elves have void theme and blood/high elf theme.
Blood elves have blood elf theme, and no other theme.
So yeah, what do they get in return?
This is simply math.
1+? = 2
Blood elves need the 1

Because it's not a compromise, since the void elves gave absolutely nothing of what was being asked for.

That is the definition of a compromise where you dont get everything you want. Sorry.

So they now can have similar skin colors. Alright. So what? I'll repeat: what are the blood elves losing? No skin color is being removed from the blood elves, as far as I know.

Honestly dude, you're being incredibly obtuse. Blood elves literally lost a theme to void elves. You don't need to remove something for it to be lost. If you can't have an honest discussion, then itrs better for you to just say.

"I dont care that i look the exact same as a blood elf. Thats what I wanted."

[Kyriani]

In fairness I'd wouldn't say that Void Elves will have the Blood Elf theme, only the Void Elf theme and soon the High Elf theme.

While Blood Elves still have the Blood Elf theme and soon the High Elf theme. I'm also holding out hope for the San'layn/Dark Ranger customization for those themes as well.

Also... how does one "lose" a theme? I can see how one can "share" a theme, but I don't see Blood Elves "losing" anything.

[Starla]

I have a feeling that, at the very least, the first four allied races are getting some love for Shadowlands launch. We've already seen that Void Elves are getting some, and there's no reason the other three couldn't "inherit" whatever goodies their parent races get so long as it makes sense for the race. I wouldn't expect the Nightborne to get the body markings but I have a pretty strong suspicion they are going to get a bunch of the Night Elf skin tones. I can only hope that they also get some options to make them look closer to their NPCs as well.

Just allowing the first four to inherit things from their parent races is an easy win for Blizzard because it requires very little effort on their part to do and you know that Blizzard (like any other business) likes to get a lot of return for very little investment. :P

With absolutely no proof or evidence you feel free to share this feeling? It's kind of sad because it just comes off as insensitivity to the people who love the races they play and have been given little attention.

Also I wasn't addressing you but another person.

[Molvonos]

With absolutely no proof or evidence you feel free to share this feeling? It's kind of sad because it just comes off as insensitivity to the people who love the races they play and have been given little attention.

Also I wasn't addressing you but another person.

I don't understand your problem.

We're allowed to post our opinions and feelings. They specifically stated 'I have a feeling', which is a disclaimer. You're acting like it's an attack on you 'and the people who love the races'. Like, how thin exactly is your skin?

[Broflake]

In fairness I'd wouldn't say that Void Elves will have the Blood Elf theme, only the Void Elf theme and soon the High Elf theme.

While Blood Elves still have the Blood Elf theme and soon the High Elf theme. I'm also holding out hope for the San'layn/Dark Ranger customization for those themes as well.

Also... how does one "lose" a theme? I can see how one can "share" a theme, but I don't see Blood Elves "losing" anything.

The blood elf theme has been pushed as being the high elf theme. The only thing that was ever missing was the blue eyes which was given to them. So it wasn't as if they gained that theme recently. They had it since TBC.
The problem is the void elf change means they can play a void theme OR a high elf theme.

So now, its a 2 to 1 situation.
Simply because they don't bring anything design wise that is unique to themselves that separates them from those on the alliance. It is why MMOs almost never share races, not even skin colors, because aesthetics are such a powerful facet that it affects the way the game is perceived.

So now, you have blood elves who...offer paladins. Which you can get thorugh zandalari/tauren as well. That's about it though, and Paladins aren't even a necessary or wanted class.
Which velfers (because lets be real they never cared for high elves just the skins) also want.


So...if a void elf gives me more than blood elves do? Why are blood elves even an option? Despite being the original option, they've become redundant and inferior.

[Molvonos]

The blood elf theme has been pushed as being the high elf theme. The only thing that was ever missing was the blue eyes which was given to them. So it wasn't as if they gained that theme recently. They had it since TBC.
The problem is the void elf change means they can play a void theme OR a high elf theme.

So now, its a 2 to 1 situation.
Simply because they don't bring anything design wise that is unique to themselves that separates them from those on the alliance. It is why MMOs almost never share races, not even skin colors, because aesthetics are such a powerful facet that it affects the way the game is perceived.

So now, you have blood elves who...offer paladins. Which you can get thorugh zandalari/tauren as well. That's about it though, and Paladins aren't even a necessary or wanted class.
Which velfers (because lets be real they never cared for high elves just the skins) also want.


So...if a void elf gives me more than blood elves do? Why are blood elves even an option? Despite being the original option, they've become redundant and inferior.

There's way too much opinion in your post painted as fact to take seriously.

No type of class is 'necessary'. You can tank as a warrior, guardian druid, vengeance demon hunter or blood death knight instead of a paladin.

You can heal as (inserts list of healers). You can dps as (inserts list of dps).

But to say they're unwanted is utterly untrue by any metric of definition.

To say they're redundant and inferior is utterly untrue.

If we're stating bias -- Blood Elf racials are superior to Void Elf racials.

If you're trying to talk on behalf of high elves, you're doing a pretty bad job of it.

If you're trying to talk on behalf of blood elves? You're doing a pretty bad job of it.

So what exactly were you intending with this post?

[Broflake]

There's way too much opinion in your post painted as fact to take seriously.

Counter it then. There is a reason in game design, a palette swap changed the perception of players for mobs, even if the design is the same.
Cost effective, and it affects perception.

No type of class is 'necessary'. You can tank as a warrior, guardian druid, vengeance demon hunter or blood death knight instead of a paladin.

You either don't do any form of hardcore M+ or raiding. There are classes that are preferred, and classes that are not.
Paladins, are not.
Secondly, they are also a part of the unique offering of blood elf, which velfers want.

To say they're redundant and inferior is utterly untrue.

This is a statement, not a counter.
What do you get playing a blood elf that you would not get playing a void elf?
Paladin.
Alliance has the best paladins, so, not a concern, and light doesnt mesh with void.

If we're stating bias -- Blood Elf racials are superior to Void Elf racials.

That's a cool story to tell until you realize the DPS difference is 0.99%, and that the void elves teleport ability provides significantly greater utility and mobility than arcane torrents niche use.
There is also the much more practical cost reduction for mogs so...yeah.
The superior argument doesn't work for anyone that can do basic math.
Oh, and that 1% difference, shrinks further on any class than stacking crit...which ismost.

If you're trying to talk on behalf of high elves, you're doing a pretty bad job of it.

If you're trying to talk on behalf of void elves, you're doing a pretty bad job of it.

If you're trying to talk on behalf of blood elves? You're doing a pretty bad job of it.

If you're trying to talk on behalf of...
Sorry, one should be enough to get the point across.
Your entire post is nothing but assumptions and claims bereft of actual counter arguments.
You havent addressed my points regarding theme.
You came out of nowhere bringing up the trinity of the RPG as if it has anybearing on the context of this discussion

So what exactly were you intending with this post?

if you are asking this question then you are admiring a mirror.

Question...whats the deal with your sig and who is Jonnusthegreat? Is it some dude who got in trouble or something?

[shoc]

If you want to play a High Elf, the Alliance and Horde are there for you.

[Broflake]

If you want to play a High Elf, the Alliance and Horde are there for you.

Essentially.
I guess nightborne will soon get a night elf model.

Anyways, I think no one will agree to anything, and this topic served its purpose.
So...i am outtie Velfers

[Strippling]

Same applies to you. If you want to claim that blood elves are "losing" something, you have to show what they are losing, and why do you think they're losing it.

Blood elves are losing aesthetics that were unique to them. It doesn't take a rocket scientist to acknowledge this. Regardless, the skin tones have been shared now but it doesn't mean that their hair colors or styles need to be shared also. That is pretty much one of the only remaining features left for blood elves that distinguish them. Take that away from them (by giving it to void elves) and you essentially end up with an Alliance AR (based on a core horde race) having pretty much all of their parents race customizations PLUS their own unique void customizations. The skin color alone was a HUGE gain for void elves, leave the hair colors and styles that are unique to blood elves with the blood elves thanks.

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In fairness I'd wouldn't say that Void Elves will have the Blood Elf theme, only the Void Elf theme and soon the High Elf theme.

While Blood Elves still have the Blood Elf theme and soon the High Elf theme. I'm also holding out hope for the San'layn/Dark Ranger customization for those themes as well.

Also... how does one "lose" a theme? I can see how one can "share" a theme, but I don't see Blood Elves "losing" anything.

Sharing a theme results in the blood elves losing something that was unique to them. What was lost? One aspect that made blood elves unique. Are you saying more of what makes them unique should be shared (ie hair colors)? It's a subjective topic but you would be disingenuous if you think the blood elves have lost nothing with void elves getting their skin colors (their new skin colors too which were meant to be a unique new customization option for blood elves).

The cards have been dealt, and the skin colors will now be shared, but that doesn't mean it is acceptable to continue taking blood elf aesthetics and giving them to void elves. Sure, give void elves more options, heck give every race and AR more options... but keep those options unique so that there is a level of immersion and pride within each race. Else we might as well scrap the race system and just make your player character a human who can have horns, tusks, fur, etcc...

[shoc]

Else we might as well scrap the race system and just make your player character a human who can have horns, tusks, fur, etcc...

You say that like it's a bad thing.

[FlubberPuddy]

Essentially.
I guess nightborne will soon get a night elf model.

Anyways, I think no one will agree to anything, and this topic served its purpose.
So...i am outtie Velfers

I think the High Elf request shows that people should spend more time advocating for options they want instead of trying to deny any sorts of options from others.

Aka, focus on yo self and what you want.

Like me personally, I don't give a shit about what Blood Elves get or can do or how they're portrayed.

Because I got my Alliance High Elves now I can focus on making further requests for how that can be improved and whatever the fuck happens to Horde races/Horde story I don't have to give a shit about.

This is your typical player behavior btw, everyone focuses more on whatever aspect they want furthered in the game and aren't beholden to some 'balance standard' where they have to think of every other area of the game or what other players want.

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With absolutely no proof or evidence you feel free to share this feeling? It's kind of sad because it just comes off as insensitivity to the people who love the races they play and have been given little attention.

I think this post is coming off as being too passive-aggressive rather than Kyri's coming off an insensitive (doesn't at all honestly). Aren't you happy and glad you got your blue eyed blood elves? You spammed the twitter hashtag a lot for it.

Everyone wins!

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Else we might as well scrap the race system and just make your player character a human who can have horns, tusks, fur, etcc...

This is kinda funny considering Horde are still campaigning for Nathanos/Derek Proudmoore style Undead. Basically proper human undead. I think it's clear that the vast majority are those that want more options than less.

It's not as if the High Elf request itself was truly niche/minor (if it were Blizzard wouldn't have granted it the way they did).

[Strippling]

You say that like it's a bad thing.

Other MMO's are that way -------->

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This is kinda funny considering Horde are still campaigning for Nathanos/Derek Proudmoore style Undead. Basically proper human undead. I think it's clear that the vast majority are those that want more options than less.

It's not as if the High Elf request itself was truly niche/minor (if it were Blizzard wouldn't have granted it the way they did).

I've barely seen threads asking for Nathanos style undead. They're a rare thing, so don't be no naive in thinking it's a customization asked for by "Horde".

I never said the high elf request was niche. You yourself though said not even 2 weeks ago that "you don't want blood elves", now you're saying "I hope we get blood elf hair colors and styles". So, you didn't want the race but you want their customizations? You also argued with me constantly about how you wanted high elves cause of their "lore", now your advocating for void elf paladins which breaks the lore.

I've accepted that void elves will have access to ALL of the blood elf skin tones, but I certainly don't feel they should have access to their hair options too.

Also, you argued with Obelisk on many occasions that "void elves aren't high elves", now you're saying "yay alliance high elves will be playable". Obelisk even stated on several occasions that the high elf wayfarers in Telogrus Rift implied that high elves were joining the void elf ranks, but you and several others contended this and said "there's no proof, that's just your headcanon". Lo and behold, Taliesin makes a video saying the exact same thing and now y'all are like "high elves are joining the void elves so let's have those light skin and hair options". Again, congratulations on the win.. just don't be hypocritical.

I'm an advocate for races maintaining unique aesthetics, it's what gives the whole race selection part of the game meaning and immersion. I personally don't want Nathanos style undead, as I agree that it kinda takes away from humans. I'd much rather dark ranger elf options, as they are a Horde feature and would be based of the Horde blood elf model. Likewise, Eredar for Horde? No thanks. Alteraci humans for Horde? No thanks. Moknathol? yes please. Same for san'layn and ogres.