Official High Elf Discussion Megathread

[Gaidax]

An elf with bells and whistles? Sign me up!

"Don't give up hope" Start a Bellf(see what I did there) Megathread!

Oh you can bet they have a bunch of red painted cases all over the office with "break glass in case of bad financial quarter emergency" writing with High Elves being in one of those cases and all classes for all races being in some other one.

Probably not the time for this just yet.

[Syegfryed]

Okey then... Does that same logic not apply to high elves then?

obviouslly no, since many times blizzard confirm they are the same,

They are literally different in terms of eye color

you mean blue eys that blood elves also have? how is that different?

since one took in the fel to survive on after the fall of the sunwell, And the other survived without doing so further away from the sunwell's fall? Ergo not the exact same thing either then?

they only used fel to power the structures, their eyes got green because the radiation around, but not enough to change race, you can't compare that with drinking demon blood

Still the same race.

other race of orcs, different

Sooo we went from "you will never get fair skinned elves haha" to "anyways still no high elves for u guys lol"

but the thing is void elf still, right?

This is endless.

is only endless because one part wish to be

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No, they are, for the most part, cultural. Let me demonstrate. Let's take Kul'tiran humans, for example:
All five of them are cultural-based. Brush It Off, and Child of the Sea? In a culture revolving around sea-faring, you expect to find that the people are hardier and have better swimming skills, which includes holding their breath for longer. Not because of "genetics",

LOL, if your own body can endure more nature and frost damage and your own constitution is better adapted to those kind of envirolment to give you more resistence and versatility that is literally what is genetic is about dude, the concept of evolution, picking species more adapte to the location

youa re telling me another breed of humans with 8ft better adpted to the region is the same of the tiny humans who do not have those kinds of adaptations are genetic, saying with just "culture"

if that was true, all humans in kul'tiras would be like that, and they aren't, only a fell specials

And yet, they're all the same race. No "subrace" nonsense.

they re because we can't talk about that, its tabu, i would explain to you but like mods said, drop it

No, they don't.

they did, and is silly to say they didn't, you even listed some reasons yourself

Learn how "evolution" actually works, and realize your grave mistake. "Evolution" of that scale does not happen in this short a span of time.

Learn yourself how things works before trying to educate someone, evolution happens in different spans of time, given at least one generation had passed since its all it need to have the gene trade between sexual selection

evolution happens with different processes like natural selection and genetic mutation or recombination and result in characteristics becoming more common or rare within a population that can be in the same place

that is literally what happened to kultirans, a group within the populace have rare characteristics unique to then, due to the process of natural selection/mutations

but sure, they can resist frost and nature more, because ~~culture~~

No, they are not a "different breed". They're humans, and they look different for playable differentiation's sake.

except they were different before becoming playable

... What? Do you even know what "appeal to ignorance" means? You are the one who wants to conclude that void elves are a different race than blood elves, then it's your burden to prove that.

i already did that, they are another race of elves mutated by the void, they have different characteristics and racials to prove that

So, in the light of that, it's your burden of proof that the "void-ification" is hereditary, which is a pre-requisite for the void elves to be considered an actual separate race.

you are bringing hereditary when it was not aprt of the conversation, and like i said you are doing the appeal to ignorance because you are trying me to prove something that can be proved because there is no evidence, therefore implying you are right about it

Yeah. Forsaken are not a race. And, by developers' mouth, neither are the Gilneans. They're not a different race from humans. They are humans, who were mutated by the Worgen curse. Worgens are not any more a "different race" from humans, than a human who lost his arm is a "different race" from humans.

they still are a different thing all together

like is aid there is not a single example of the same race, with no fundamental difference

No. No, it is not. Otherwise Kul'tirans and Lightforged Draenei would not exist.

they are still not the same thing, like i said.

You flip-flop between "actual race" and "playable race" when it suits you.

i mean we all know what we mean to say, but your nitpicking is too hard trying the false equivalence with all those different races with the elves, who are, confirmed by the canon, the same

[Highelf]

Just ignore Orcfryed. He's so delusional. Not worth your time guys. He argues just to argue.

[Aldo Hawk]

Don't forget "still you are not getting elf paladins".

It is also funny that very same people who repeated for 2 years "blood elves are high elves" went to opinion that void elves (which are in fact blood elves in the first place) are not high elves and that void elves have no right for thalassian stuff, despite being thalassian elves. There are some obvious double standards.

It's obvious who Blizzard should not listen to.

Just ignore Orcfryed. He's so delusional. Not worth your time guys. He argues just to argue.

Deepfryedorc

[willowfree]

Hmm sorry no... An orc is an orc.. Mag'ar is an orc Clan not an orc race. You can't say the same about Elves. That's why they are called Quel'dorei. Sin'dorei. Kal'dorei. Ren'dorei etc. And yes I can say the same about the Elves. drinking blood or getting radiated by fell. Taking in fell is to taking in Fell it was enough regardless to alter them physically. Elves have by blizzard had the name of their race change by definition from their physical changes. From Kal'dorei and highborne. To Quel'dorei (High elves and the sunwell) And Shal'dorei (Nightborne of the nightwell) etc. The only time that has been the case with the orcs as far as I know is the Fell orcs from Hellfire citidel in outland.

Even Wowpedia and Wiki have Mag'ar listed as an orc clan and not a race and blizzard has definetly never confirmed Mag'ar or any other orc clan for being different races of orc to my knowledge either. Mag'har should of been just as much a skin tone change. As Wildhammer tattoo's are a costumizastion option to dwarf. Or the other troll tribes are becoming to trolls. Or BLUE EYES are to void elf or blood elf.

[Aldo Hawk]

Hmm sorry no... An orc is an orc.. Mag'ar is an orc Clan not an orc race. You can't say the same about Elves. That's why they are called Quel'dorei. Sin'dorei. Kal'dorei. Ren'dorei etc. And yes I can say the same about the Elves. drinking blood or getting radiated by fell. Taking in fell is to taking in Fell it was enough regardless to alter them physically. Elves have by blizzard had the name of their race change by definition from their physical changes. From Kal'dorei and highborne. To Quel'dorei (High elves and the sunwell) And Shal'dorei (Nightborne of the nightwell) etc. The only time that has been the case with the orcs as far as I know is the Fell orcs from Hellfire citidel in outland.

Even Wowpedia and Wiki have Mag'ar listed as an orc clan and not a race and blizzard has definetly never confirmed Mag'ar or any other orc clan for being different races of orc to my knowledge either. Mag'har should of been just as much a skin tone change. As Wildhammer tattoo's are a costumizastion option to dwarf. Or the other troll tribes are becoming to trolls. Or BLUE EYES are to void elf or blood elf.

What Deepfryedorc doesn't get is that the term 'race' is not what he thinks it means and that it means very different things in Warcraft and in the real world.

It's not worth the hassle.

[Black Goat]

What Deepfryedorc doesn't get is that the term 'race' is not what he thinks it means and that it means very different things in Warcraft and in the real world.

It's not worth the hassle.

The same could be said for you. You've been told, "No, you're not getting High Elves."

And somehow you think that means something else.

Not worth the hassle, indeed.

[LilSaihah]

I still hope a full fledged Allied race comes some day, and now with people running around with these new customizations in the Alliance, devs will see how much such thing is desired by players through direct metrics from the game, so I see it more possible than ever.

Honestly I think it'll be the same thing as the obscene numbers of belves we see; "this race has very pretty girls so I'm going to play it."

Most of the playerbase doesn't actually care that much about the lore. They want to play something that's either cute, hot or cool. The percentage that cares about the lore is in the 1 or 2 percent; probably less than the number of people who make their racial pick purely based on simcraft DPS recommendations.

[Swnem]

Just ignore Orcfryed. He's so delusional. Not worth your time guys. He argues just to argue.

This kind of post is always reductive.
If you can't handle different opinions, don't come to a message forum. This is not meant to be an echo room.
Aslong as he isn't breaking forum rules, he and anyone that wants to reply to him is free to do so or not.

This atempt at rallying people cause you disagree with him is an atempt at simply winning with an argument from authority and only weakens your stance. Just stop it. Truth is not a majority vote.
You are free to not reply to him, but it's not your place to tell other people what to do. Attack his arguments, not the person.
The black list is always an option. I know i've used it myself. If you think he is trolling, report him and let the mods decide.

[FlubberPuddy]

Honestly I think it'll be the same thing as the obscene numbers of belves we see; "this race has very pretty girls so I'm going to play it."

Most of the playerbase doesn't actually care that much about the lore. They want to play something that's either cute, hot or cool. The percentage that cares about the lore is in the 1 or 2 percent; probably less than the number of people who make their racial pick purely based on simcraft DPS recommendations.

Yup, this is true. Anyone who says otherwise is literally lying to themselves and the world.

Majority of players don't give a shit about 'lore' for races, most are satisfied by appearances and that's it.

Thus it's funny when people are like 'ah ha! you only wanted them for the look ALL ALONG!' as if it's some gotcha moment.

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Just ignore Orcfryed. He's so delusional. Not worth your time guys. He argues just to argue.

Some people are more concerned with getting in the last word than actually saying anything cogent.

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You've been told, "No, you're not getting High Elves."

And just a week or so ago we've been told, "you're getting High Elves!"

Literally only the most pedantic few are denying it, majority of the playerbase understands its a true compromise of the High Elf request.

And as others said, opens up the door for further down the line <- that's actually why it's more of a true win than anything else.

Especially with Ion stating that character customization isn't ever going to end.

[Ielenia]

LOL, if your own body can endure more nature and frost damage and your own constitution is better adapted to those kind of envirolment to give you more resistence and versatility that is literally what is genetic is about dude, the concept of evolution, picking species more adapte to the location

Yes. Because culture, not genetics. Because it's their seafaring culture that sends them into the sea, which trains their body to resist those elements through constant exposure. Just like in the real world, if you're sent to live in a cold, cold place, like northern Canada, you'll eventually get more used to the cold. Not to the point of going out in the middle of winter wearing just your underwear, of course, but you'll be, like... "1% hardier against cold"? Sounds familiar?

they did, and is silly to say they didn't, you even listed some reasons yourself

No, there isn't any lore to make them look different. I said there is lore to justify the racial traits, not their physical appearance.

Learn yourself how things works before trying to educate someone, evolution happens in different spans of time, given at least one generation had passed since its all it need to have the gene trade between sexual selection

evolution happens with different processes like natural selection and genetic mutation or recombination and result in characteristics becoming more common or rare within a population that can be in the same place

that is literally what happened to kultirans, a group within the populace have rare characteristics unique to then, due to the process of natural selection/mutations

And yet you still show a misunderstanding of evolution. By the laws of evolution, populations restricted to confined areas (like, an island) tend to become smaller over time. Not bigger. And you just said it: "rare characteristics". Do you know how long does it take for a "rare characteristic" to be passed on to an entire population to the point it becomes the norm, and not just rare? Worse: do you know how long it takes to even form such "rare characteristic" in the first place?

except they were different before becoming playable

False. They were not. Kul'Tirans were planned from the get-go to be an allied race. I've already proven that to you. And every single depiction of Kul'Tirans prior to BfA showed them as looking no different whatsoever from the currently playable humans.

i already did that, they are another race of elves mutated by the void, they have different characteristics and racials to prove that

You didn't. You made an assertion, but have yet to show any sort of conclusive evidence for that, while the game and developer words on similar cases indicate that void elves are likely not a separate race.

you are bringing hereditary when it was not aprt of the conversation,

You are talking about them being a different "race", and one of the key components of what defines a "race" is hereditary traits. If the "void-ification" is not passed from parent to child, then they are not a different race from the rest of the thalassian elves, just like a human who lost an arm is not a "different race" than the rest of the humans.

they still are a different thing all together

The addition of fair skins to the void elves begs to differ. The point is that "separate race" is not a prerequisite for a given group to be playable. Gilneans, pandaren, and the allied races proved that.

like is aid there is not a single example of the same race, with no fundamental difference

Other than... y'know... the pandaren.

i mean we all know what we mean to say, but your nitpicking is too hard trying the false equivalence with all those different races with the elves, who are, confirmed by the canon, the same

Regardless of that, it doesn't prevent them from being their own separate playable race, as evidenced by our current allied races. As a "playable race", you play as a group within said race. You're not a representative of your entire "race'. This was obvious since day 1 of WoW, and became glaringly clear when the Pandaren were introduced.

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You've been told, "No, you're not getting High Elves."

Except that never happened, in the history of ever.

[Aldo Hawk]

The same could be said for you. You've been told, "No, you're not getting High Elves."

And somehow you think that means something else.

Not worth the hassle, indeed.

Black Goat, honey, WE ARE GETTING HIGH ELVES.

For what do you think the new Void elf customizations are?

Seriously, for what the hell do you think these in actual actuality are?

Goddamn you people, I don't expect anything from you yet you still surprise me with these over the top reachs.

DAAAAAMN HAHAHAHAHAHA

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This kind of post is always reductive.
If you can't handle different opinions, don't come to a message forum. This is not meant to be an echo room.
Aslong as he isn't breaking forum rules, he and anyone that wants to reply to him is free to do so or not.

This atempt at rallying people cause you disagree with him is an atempt at simply winning with an argument from authority and only weakens your stance. Just stop it. Truth is not a majority vote.
You are free to not reply to him, but it's not your place to tell other people what to do. Attack his arguments, not the person.
The black list is always an option. I know i've used it myself. If you think he is trolling, report him and let the mods decide.

'It weakens your stance'

Look, stop trying to make people feel as if they have to care about arguments that are circular and actually are just so wrong that doesn't matter if they go around telling it.

The only problem with that is people now knowing hearing it and thinking it's the truth.

Deepfryedorc said he is a biologist, but his takes on basic biology are just wrong, and his takes on what 'race' means in Warcraft is even more outlandish.

It's simply... @Highelf is right dude, and you should stop trying to get people into loosing time with things that only serve the purpose of being cyclical.

These arguments are not important, end of story.

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Except that never happened, in the history of ever.

This 10.000 times.

And yes, don't be pedantic, what Ielenia says is that High elves were NEVER denied as something that will never ever happen in the rest of existence. That's what Deepfryedorc says and what is not true.

[Syegfryed]

Yes. Because culture, not genetics.

no, thats literally genetics and i explained to you, culture alone don't change or affect your body in a biological lv

Because it's their seafaring culture that sends them into the sea, which trains their body to resist those elements through constant exposure. Just like in the real world, if you're sent to live in a cold, cold place, like northern Canada, you'll eventually get more used to the cold.

and with generations and natural selection of trading genes, its expected that people are born more adapted to those at climates, you can't take someone from the tropics and shove then iceland and pretend they will get the same resistance of someone who was born from generations in that place

No, there isn't any lore to make them look different.

same reasons gave then genetic adaptations to their environment, generic adaptions often appear in the outside, and people change, it makes totally sense

And yet you still show a misunderstanding of evolution. By the laws of evolution, populations restricted to confined areas (like, an island) tend to become smaller over time. Not bigger.

yup friend, you now abou insular dwarfism, but there is also island gigantism, seems like its you, not me, who show a misunderstand, or i mean, lack of knowledge, about evolution.

of course, most of then are extinct by humans and other factors, but some of then still exist, like the Kakapo, this guy:

And you just said it: "rare characteristics". Do you know how long does it take for a "rare characteristic" to be passed on to an entire population to the point it becomes the norm, and not just rare? Worse: do you know how long it takes to even form such "rare characteristic" in the first place?

i do know, but in wow we have tons of examples of things like that happening faster than usual, trolls are great example of that

Kul'tirans characteristics are more or less rare indeed.

False. They were not. Kul'Tirans were planned from the get-go to be an allied race. I've already proven that to you

nope, you didn't, they were already different before they though about making then allied race, same with the thin human

You didn't. You made an assertion, but have yet to show any sort of conclusive evidence for that,

different racials do that, their different body characteristics due to their mutation show that, if you do not want to believe that, that is up to you

You are talking about them being a different "race", and one of the key components of what defines a "race" is hereditary traits. If the "void-ification" is not passed from parent to child, then they are not a different race from the rest of the thalassian elves, just like a human who lost an arm is not a "different race" than the rest of the humans.

And we don't know about the children because they don't exist yet, so you can't say they aren't just because we don't have a void elf kid to proof that

The addition of fair skins to the void elves begs to differ.

they still are different with the exception of the skin colors, they are still void elves mutated by the void as far blizzard showed, not new elves using void magic

Other than... y'know... the pandaren.

that i already acknowledge as you know, exception

Regardless of that, it doesn't prevent them from being their own separate playable race, as evidenced by our current allied races.

indeed it does, cause, by our current allied races, they all have fundamental differences that do not resolve in faction allegiance as the only "difference" and are in the same faction.

if that someway change, like i said, i will agre, until that, you are wasting your time.

[Swnem]

'It weakens your stance'

Look, stop trying to make people feel as if they have to care about arguments that are circular and actually are just so wrong that doesn't matter if they go around telling it.

The only problem with that is people now knowing hearing it and thinking it's the truth.

Deepfryedorc said he is a biologist, but his takes on basic biology are just wrong, and his takes on what 'race' means in Warcraft is even more outlandish.

It's simply... @Highelf is right dude, and you should stop trying to get people into loosing time with things that only serve the purpose of being cyclical.

These arguments are not important, end of story.

You didn't read what i said carefully. I am not saying anything in favor or against him. I say he can share his opinion and Highelf has no right to tell other people what to do. It's a choice for each and every one. I have not read much of what each other has said, but i can see one trying to advocate and argument from authority. If you are right, you don't have the need to do that. So, maybe he is right, but he is going wrongly about it. Making personal attacks is distasteful and i won't support that. Even if it's some insufferable poster in mmo-champ. That is why the ignore list exists. Use it.

[Evilfish]

Black Goat, honey, WE ARE GETTING HIGH ELVES.

For what do you think the new Void elf customizations are?

Seriously, for what the hell do you think these in actual actuality are?

Goddamn you people, I don't expect anything from you yet you still surprise me with these over the top reachs.

DAAAAAMN HAHAHAHAHAHA

You are not getting High Elves. You are getting pink void elves. But hold on to that joy, if it's really joy and not spite. Cause after the expansion launches I'm willing to bet my right bollock that you'll be back here, saying the same old crap, about Blizzard hating you for not doing EXACTLY what you want. In fact I'm pretty sure that's why most of you are here. Cause you have a fixation.

Regardless, the high elves you desire so much are further away from you now than ever. The fact is that the more they make void elves look like high elves, the more pointless the addition of actual high elves becomes. So you are stuck with painted void elves, still existing in some asscrack floating island. I honestly hope you enjoy them enough to stop beating this dead horse, but like I said, I estimate you'll be shedding crocodile tears across the forums after Shadow Lands launches.

[Villager720]

And just a week or so ago we've been told, "you're getting High Elves!"

That ... is a 100% false statement.
Not once in the post by Blizzard announcing the expanded customizations were “high elves” even mentioned.
They expanded void elf visuals (seemingly, for now, without even giving them normal hair).
That’s it.
They didn’t tell you they were giving you high elves. And they didn’t give you high elves.

“Void elves can now resemble high elves more closely.“
That’s factual.
“We got high elves as a playable race.”
That’s not factual.

[BaumanKing]

You are not getting High Elves. You are getting pink void elves.

Yeah, but blood elves are not getting high elves either, cause their turquoise options are still fel tainted. So in the end no one is getting true high elves.

[Ardenaso]

You are not getting High Elves. You are getting pink void elves. But hold on to that joy, if it's really joy and not spite.

Wow you guys went from "if you want fair skin play Blood Elf and if you can't stomach the Horde play Void Elf" and now they have fair skin Void Elf you all are getting spiteful.

They really can't win I guess

[Starla]

You didn't read what i said carefully. I am not saying anything in favor or against him. I say he can share his opinion and Highelf has no right to tell other people what to do. It's a choice for each and every one. I have not read much of what each other has said, but i can see one trying to advocate and argument from authority. If you are right, you don't have the need to do that. So, maybe he is right, but he is going wrongly about it. Making personal attacks is distasteful and i won't support that. Even if it's some insufferable poster in mmo-champ. That is why the ignore list exists. Use it.

You were right to speak up. If more people did this there might be less toxicity here.

[Evilfish]

Yeah, but blood elves are not getting high elves either, cause their turquoise options are still fel tainted. So in the end no one is getting true high elves.

They were always the High Elves, I'm not sure how many times this was brought up here. They are the High Elves, they have been the High Elves since they were introduced. I'm thinking you people imagine that being a High Elf is entriely defined by how loyal they are to the alliance which is not true. So no, the belfs don't get the high elves, cause they are the high elves.